r/criterion • u/Wide_Answer_3929 • 1d ago
Discussion Best Sword Fights in Cinema?
Duelists (1977)
79
u/Alchemix-16 1d ago
The mark of Zorro, Tyrone Power snd Basil Rathbone are incredibly in it.
14
u/LeCercleRouge 1d ago
Agreed, their sword fight at the end is probably the best single sword fight in the classic hollywood swashbuckling genre.
14
u/Lohengrin1991 1d ago
Yes! I opened this thread specifically to see if someone had already posted it.
For the uninitiated: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nB8tiSMCwRE&pp=ygUUem9ycm8gYmFzaWwgcmF0aGJvbmXSBwkJRwwBhyohjO8%3D
15
u/Throwawayhelp111521 1d ago
Basil Rathbone was an excellent swordsman. Apparently, he joked that when he played the villain he always had to lose sword fights to an actor much less able.
5
u/limoncello333 22h ago
If my childhood memory can be trusted, I read that Rathbone was quite impressed by Power, who apparently had no experience but was a natural. I’ve always loved that film.
8
u/mosasaurmotors 1d ago
This HAS to be the pick in my opinion.
There are so many great elements to it.
The final kill looks SO CONVINCING. Everytime I watch it I think I’ve just seen Rathbone die for real even though I know it’s not the case.
6
u/crichmond77 1d ago
Yes!!! Also some incredible horse-riding stunts in this film
Total banger! Yall check it out!
5
u/Dr_Fail-safe 1d ago
One of the best old Hollywood adventures. As much fun as an Errol Flynn film. Linda Darnell was 16, maybe 17 when it was shot.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)5
u/mrcrazymexican 1d ago
I'll need to catch it sometime. I know of it by name but I never searched it out
75
u/AldoTheeApache Mike Leigh 1d ago
Professional fencer here:
Realistically, hands down Ridley Scott's The Duelists (as seen above). Especially the first 3 duels. It's one of my favorite sword fighting films, and pretty damn close to how fast, unromantic and overthought bouts/duels can be. But enough about my love life.
As far as entertaining: any Zorro, any Basil Rathbone, and any of the Japanese Samurai cinema on criterion are great, especially any of the Zatoichi films.
And not that Criterion carries it, and nor should it really, but my personal favorite over the top, campy, sword fight is James Bond Die Another Day which was actually choreographed and outfitted by fencing master Leon Paul
14
u/General_Concentrate 1d ago
Hobby fencer: I'd also like to throw in the Polish Film The Deluge for another very realistic portrayal of fencing, specifically Polish Sabre.
→ More replies (1)6
u/druidmain69420 1d ago
Do Polish Sabres look better than un-Polish ones?
→ More replies (2)5
u/Mixer-3007 1d ago edited 1d ago
They sure do. I remember one movie fight where one duelist used the sun's reflection from his saber to blind his opponent and deliver a mortal strike. You can't do it with None-Polish saber.
8
u/KingMobScene 1d ago
The sword fight is probably the best part of Die another day. Makes me wish we got to see more of Pierce as a swashbuckling hero.
→ More replies (1)3
4
u/penguinjuice 1d ago
How does Captain Blood rank for you? It's the film that had my kid take up fencing.
4
u/Rrekydoc Stanley Kubrick 19h ago
Basil Rathbone was awesome. He was so skilled, he’d make his opponents look better than they were.
3
u/Could-Have-Been-King 12h ago
Captain Blood! Robin Hood! All the Errol Flynn duels, but I have to admit I like The Sea Hawk the best of Flynn's fights.
2
u/Distraction86 4h ago
How’s the professional fencing game these days?
3
u/AldoTheeApache Mike Leigh 3h ago
In this economy, bleak. There's been a severe lack of princess to save, no one is challenging anyone's honor anymore, and the law has been really cracking down on trial by combat.
May have to get a job a Ye Olde Home Depot
61
u/JosephFinn 1d ago
Rob Roy. Claymore vs rapier and it’s a simply fantastic fight.
9
u/PatientDirect 1d ago
Came here to say this. One of the best swordfights ever filmed. Huge finale. Tim Roth in Rob Roy gets my vote for one of the best villain performances in cinematic history. Daniel Craig in Road To Perdition and Tim Roth in Rob Roy are so well acted and three dimensional and you come to genuinely hate the characters. A+ stuff
2
u/JosephFinn 1d ago
I always kind of want to see Oscar voting totals say, 25 years later, because I want to see how close Roth was to Kevin Spacey. He’s amazing in Rob Roy.
8
u/Onlyifyounasty 1d ago
This one is far to low. Apparently more people need to see this film.
→ More replies (1)6
u/das_goose Ebirah 1d ago
I first heard about this movie when Roger Ebert was reviewing a movie (thought was Pirates of the Caribbean but no) that had a sword fight and commented that Rob Roy had the best fight ever put on film.
3
3
380
u/faust_33 1d ago
Princess Bride
71
u/vphan13_nope 1d ago
The choreography in this scene was done by the same person who did the light saber scenes in Star Wars. The references to fencing styles and names are real
13
u/General_Concentrate 1d ago
The references are real but they don't switch up their fencing styles to match what they're referencing. They use modern sport fencing style rather than rapier fencing during the duel.
43
21
u/bizurk 1d ago
“Why are you smiling?”
23
u/DarkCrystal34 1d ago
"Because I know something you don't know."
15
3
3
3
49
u/DoctorEthereal 1d ago
There’s a great duel at the end of Rob Roy between Tim Roth, playing a much more experienced duelist and fencer, and Liam Neeson, playing a decorated commander but used to more practical, broader blades. It’s so interesting to see the moment where Roth decides to stop playing with his food and finish things
8
35
u/JosephFinn 1d ago
The Court Jester. Basil Rathbone said Danny Kaye was a pleasant surprise in how serious he took it.
11
u/Beauregard_Nanners Frankenstein 1d ago
He took it so seriously because he knew the tide of a sword fight could change just like that🫰!
4
99
u/deleuzelautrec Astro-Monster 1d ago
Eastern Promises
27
u/underwater_minefield 1d ago
Come on people
8
u/deleuzelautrec Astro-Monster 1d ago
Phrasing!
13
u/deleuzelautrec Astro-Monster 1d ago
But seriously, I vote Flynn v Rathbone in Captain Blood. Because it rules
6
5
25
u/Rrekydoc Stanley Kubrick 1d ago
I think my favorite might be the climax of House of Flying Daggers. It’s so built up, so much tension between them, it’s beautifully choreographed and directed, and the snowfall midway through is amazing.
23
23
u/Richpatine 1d ago
40
→ More replies (1)5
u/airchinapilot 1d ago
oh yes one of the greats for artistry, direction and emotional content.
8
u/peacefinder 1d ago
I love this one to pieces.
I watched it a few times before I grasped its full import. The closer I watched, the more there was to see.
The fight is dramatic and superficially swings back and forth. And it absolutely works at that surface level as a wonderful piece of fight choreography.
But then I realized, Shu Lien wins every round. In fact she had her blade at Jen’s throat in the very first exchange.
This wasn’t an even fight at all.
Jen is amazingly talented and has stolen secrets, but is absolutely stonewalled by the veteran. All of her talent and stolen secrets can’t even seriously threaten Shu Lien. Only when she leans on the Green Destiny to bail her out does she escape each round.
And she refuses to see that she’s losing. Not in a noble courageous determined way, but in a petulant childish way.
We also see a callback to Li Mu Bai saying that Jen would not be a master until she could hold the Green Destiny in stillness, during a pause we see that it quivers in her hand.
Shu Lien isn’t exactly toying with Jen, but she’s in charge and she knows it. The danger to her is real, but she’s faced deadly fighters for years. This is just another Tuesday for her. If she had wanted to kill Jen, this fight would have ended in the first seconds. Even now after everything she’s trying to teach this stubborn child that the road to mastery begins with humility.
Eventually she loses patience with Jen. Her reliance on the Green Destiny lets her believe she’s winning. With the long straight sword Shu Lien uses the Green Destiny against Jen to get a blade at her throat despite it. A clear unmistakable killing win, lacking only the spilling of blood. Jen finally knows she lost.
And still the rebellious child falls back on a tantrum, giving Shu Lein a wound. The story moves on.
It’s not just a fight, it’s fantastic storytelling that reprises the whole relationship between the characters.
The whole story of Jen and Shu Lien is told on this arena floor, from Shu Lien sending everyone else away to the Green Destiny actually injuring Shu Lien in a way she couldn’t defend against, coming between her and Li Mu Bai, leaving her bleeding.
It’s the whole movie condensed into a few minutes of combat.
The writers and Ang Lee are brilliant.
3
u/airchinapilot 1d ago
I didn't feel as strongly as you that Shu Lien had the upper hand throughout. Definitely, she showed she was the more seasoned warrior and very obviously had more tricks up her sleeve.
To me it felt like Shu Lien had her hands full and had to resort to every trick in her arsenal (and literally had to use the entire arsenal in her base) to keep up with Jen's raw power. Jen, given just a bit more tempering by a true master like Li Mu Bai would have made her unstoppable, but even as untrained as she was, she nearly overpowered Shu Lien.
I liked it as a metaphor for the competition between an older woman who has a lifetime of experience (and past hurts and regrets) vs a younger, more vibrant girl who is exploding with energy and ambition and can hardly contain herself - indeed hurting the ones closest to her.
You're totally right, it's telling that she leans on the Green Destiny - as if it is the be all and end all. The virtual hammer where every problem looks like a nail. But to her it is the reason for being - but the wielder has yet to master themselves. The part of the fight where she uses the Green Destiny to chop through the iron rod - no respecter of the sword as a piece of craftsmanship would think of dulling it by slamming it against an iron rod. But in her hands she just uses it as a dull hammer.
(Also recall that she does in fact cut through the rod and gives Shu Lien the grace to pick another weapon)
Like all well choreographed fights, the showdown had its ebbs and flows. It really is a masterpiece in storytelling through action.
4
u/peacefinder 1d ago
I hear you, and I used to agree. But the closer I watched, the less close it seemed. Wall of text time!
Take the opening exchange. Shu Lien attacks first, feints a low cut, then disengages with a twist of the machete. Jen gasps in shock and fear because she knows she’s been suckered and is defenseless. Green Destiny doesn’t even make contact with Shu Lien’s blade until its cutting edge has already thrust all the way past Jen’s neck. An inch to the side and Jen would be dead… and she knows it.
In fight choreography of course, fighters miss on purpose for dramatic effect without killing the actors. Near misses look fantastic.
But here cinema magic doubles back on itself, because the fighter being portrayed did the same thing!
Nothing prevented Shu Lien from slicing Jen’s head half off with that first thrust, least of all Jen. Shu Lien didn’t miss her target, she put her blade exactly where she meant to. Both of them come away from that exchange knowing that Jen would have died right there if Shu Lien had chosen to kill her, the fight over before Green Destiny even mattered.
Again this echoes the whole story, Shu Lien could have stopped the thief the first night, and chose to let her get away so she might be taught.
Shu Lien even defeats her again with the machete - her favorite - just after she grabs Jen’s sword hand. A cut past the head that Jen dodges, then a smack on the captive arm with the flat rather than cutting it off. A bit later when she’s using the machetes separately she captures Green Destiny and they pause a moment acknowledging the win.
But Jen is a sore loser, so she cuts the machetes apart: “Yeah you beat me, but only because you had your favorite weapon.”
Shu Lien: “Nope.”
Every other weapon round (other than the comic one) plays out basically the same: Shu Lien attacks, Jen tries to win with skill, Shu Lien outmatches her to the point of desperation, Jen uses Green Destiny to escape.
With the spear, a thrust past Jen’s face while she’s pinned to the table, Green Destiny late to defense. Untouched due to mercy, Jen cuts the spear apart.
With the hooked blades, Shi Lien accomplishes two captures of Green Destiny. Untouched due to mercy, Jen cuts them apart.
So much for finesse, Shu Lien goes with power.
There’s a moment of comic relief, but then she grabs a massive metal bar. They have an exchange, Shu Lien knocks Jen back and checks her weapon: gouged but intact.
Meanwhile Jen is quivering with desperation… she paused, but she doesn’t know stillness.
The action resumes and at last Shu Lien is on the back foot, letting Jen attack but proving she can defend even with this clumsy weapon, until Jen cuts it. Shu Lien looks at it in frustration: “Dang it, even this didn’t hold up.”
During this pause, they exchange words, and Shu Lien says what the whole fight has demonstrated: “you’re just a novice without [Green Destiny]” (English dubbed version there.) Jen calls her a sore loser, which is plainly ridiculous to Shu Lien. She realizes this idiot still doesn’t realize she’s losing, time to remove all doubt.
So she attacks with the long sword, but this time she doesn’t go for a quick win. She’s setting Jen up, goading her into using the Green Destiny to cut the long sword. Jen predictably falls for the trap and finds the broken sword at her throat.
Shu Lien has demonstrated it clearly: “Even with Green Destiny you’re just a novice, and you live due to my mercy. Embrace the truth and you can become truly great.”
But no.
→ More replies (1)
22
u/airchinapilot 1d ago edited 1d ago
Rob Roy - choreography by the great William Hobbs who also arranged the fights in The Duellists, and in Lester's Musketeers films
4
49
u/buzzdash123 1d ago
Maybe I’m biased because they defined my childhood but the fight in the blacksmiths shop in the first pirates of the Caribbean is still magic to this day. The one where they fight on a big wheel in the second one is also good but the blacksmith fight with Jack and Will and all the like Rube Goldberg shenanigans is just so so so fun.
8
u/space_cowboy80 1d ago
That 3rd movie, despite being total dogshit, had an incredible sword fight between Jack Sparrow and Davy Jones on top of the sails of a ship in the middle of a storm. Amazing to see but rammed into a terrible terrible movie.
11
u/buzzdash123 1d ago
Even when the script went off the rails Verbinski keeps it from ever feeling unwatchable. Just one of the best studio guys of his era. I didn’t love his new one but I hope someone gives him a big budget again because I wanna watch him play again. If Marvel were smart they’d be backing up a truck of money to his door right now.
18
u/SnooMarzipans8039 1d ago edited 1d ago
Potop (1974) - English title : Deluge
14
8
u/sweetsoursaltycrnchy 1d ago
Also known as “The Deluge,” and yes, I came here looking for this. Very realistic dueling.
5
u/SnooMarzipans8039 1d ago
Thanks I will update the comment with the English title - I'm Polish so know it by the original one.
2
16
u/Sharp-Ad-9423 1d ago
The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938) Robin Hood (Errol Flynn) vs Guy of Gisbourne (Basil Rathbone)
→ More replies (1)5
15
u/Owlizard_Empire 1d ago
The greatest filmed swordfights showcase the dread and desperation of such a brutally compact bout, my personal order of favorites being the final fights of Polanski’s Macbeth (1971), Kurosawa’s Rashomon (1950), and Kobayashi’s Harakiri (1962). While Harakiri and Rashomon focus on the dreadful anticipation of entering close range, thematically challenging the notion of brave and noble Samurai whose lives are incomparable to the peasantry, Rashomon and Macbeth further showcase the immediate lack of finesse the exhaustive minutes toll on the swordsmanship displayed. Macbeth’s consistently impervious armor devolves the conflict into wrestling and brawling with various objects available, concluding with corpse mutilation to ease the resulting emotional weight. William Hobbs, coordinator for Macbeth, contributed a similarly visceral nature to his future crafted duels in The Duellists and Rob Roy, and while worth watching they lack the same thematic weight as his first project (partially due to Ridley Scott’s censorship of the napoleonic politics found in Joseph Conrad’s novel). Honorable mention to By the Sword, a low budget fencing film starring F. Murray Abraham containing aspects of the above mentioned elements.
→ More replies (1)
41
u/Johnny-zamboni 1d ago
8
4
u/Plastic_Use_3135 23h ago
It’s beautifully shot, but with too many short cuts; typical of most fencing duels these days. Contrast this with Michael York vs. Sir Christopher Lee (a champion fencer) during the duel in the convent in the 1970s Three Musketeers movies ( I forget which one exactly) and you’ll see the difference.
12
u/Fichtenwald 1d ago
Duelists has the best that I have seen. I remember watching it back then with a collegue while at the university, he was academic master in fencing and impressed by the movie. I love Scott's earlier films...
2
u/Loves_His_Bong 1d ago
The Duellists is my favorite movie of all time. I don’t like Scott really, but working from an adaptation of a Joseph Conrad short story really kept him on track and the story concise and grounded. The characters are a perfect summation of the Napoleonic era politics.
12
14
u/nolmtsthrwy 1d ago
Rob Roy, certainly the best sword wound ever filmed.
7
u/cherenk0v_blue 23h ago
Tim Roth was an all-timer villain in Rob Roy. The final swordfight was technically great, but the catharsis was better because you just hated him.
4
u/Spirited_Speech_2107 20h ago
Hard to think of many films where the stakes of a single sword fight felt higher. It was brilliantly done, and that ending!!
10
11
10
10
u/Latverianbureaucrat 1d ago
Stewart Granger vs. Mel Ferrer in Scaramouche, for me. Amazing spectacle that makes great use of its setting.
I’m also partial to the last scene in The Vikings. It isn’t the greatest technically, but it being on the exterior of that real castle gives it a unique feel. And Kirk Douglas, with his one good eye, is just so menacing.
And as others have mentioned, the final duel in Rob Roy. Such a great contrast in physique, style, and swords between Neeson and Roth.
→ More replies (1)
10
11
u/angusthermopylae 1d ago
the lance duel from The Hidden Fortress fuck a sword.
Also the quick-draw fight from the end of Sanjuro
21
u/DrWaffle1848 Andrei Tarkovsky 1d ago
Sword of Doom
3
u/North_Library3206 Akira Kurosawa 1d ago
I wish we lived in a world where it was made into a full trilogy as planned. Definitely felt like it was building up to a Mifune v Nakadai duel and got a bit blue-balled when it didn't happen.
2
u/DrWaffle1848 Andrei Tarkovsky 1d ago
I honestly kinda like that's there no real resolution. None of the characters really get what they want (outside of the old man who prays for death at the beginning of the film).
→ More replies (1)2
u/Souppilgrim 1d ago
In so conflicted, because I love Sword of Doom, how it exists now in time, alone, with that bleak ending. I have a natural want to see where the story goes but it would have almost certainly cheapened how the existing film sits.
8
11
9
u/heliophoner 1d ago
Richard Lester's Musketeer movies had some of my favorite swordfights. Sloppy, nasty, panicked brawls that happened to have swords. Lots of improvised use of the terrain and setting, as well as more unconventional tactics of screaming at your opponent or wildly whipping a cloak around to disorient him.
10
38
u/jcb1982 Stanley Kubrick 1d ago
3
u/SquadPoopy 1d ago
I always felt in the minority for saying I don't like the Prequel lightsaber duels. They have the choreography of something like Princess Bride, but played straight instead of for laughs. And it just doesn't work for me played straight.
3
6
u/wayupnorthWI 1d ago
the Zatoichi series is full of really great swordfights
the live action Ruroni Kenshin movies, as goofy as they are, also have really stunning swordfighting choreography
6
10
u/newfarmer 1d ago
“I am not left handed.” You know where it’s from just from that, so there really isn’t much competition, I think.
6
u/DrSamLoomis 1d ago
I know, I know, doesn't count, but I always thought Return of the Jedi was exciting
4
4
u/fcalania 1d ago
I love the final duel between Zorro (Alain Delon) and Huerta (Stanley Baker) in Zorro (1975). I saw this film the first time as a kid and after that Zorro became one of my favorite heroes and Alain Delon became one of my favorite actors. The duel itself is long, but it's well choreographed and beautifully shot.
5
u/the_kilted_ninja 1d ago
The joust fight in El Cid is pure classic Hollywood irresponsible stunt work. Its messy in all the best ways and the use of the saddle as a shield is excellent
5
9
u/breedknight 1d ago
Obi Wan Kenobi vs Darth Maul
2
u/Consistent-Bear4200 1d ago
I love the little fact that they slowed down the footage of this fight. McGregor and Parker were going so fast with the choreography, they were worried it was going to look too unbelievable.
12
u/ItsmeJackNicholson 1d ago
Do lightsabers count?
5
u/Ok_Brick_793 1d ago
The fight between Obi-wan Kenobi and Darth Maul was pretty cool, but there are those two random high angle shots inside the vertical chamber that are so awkward and out of place.
2
u/mosasaurmotors 1d ago edited 1d ago
I actually have a strong opinion they SHOULDNT count as they actually have the opposite properties in filmic language.
In a traditional sword fight scene, when swords are swung the blur de-prioritizes the sword as it makes it less prominent or sometimes even invisible in the frame. This puts greater emphasis on the body in motion as if the audience can’t look at the sword they pay attention to the body instead.
A lightsaber on the other hand smears the form of its path across the screen when swung. When paired with the weapon’s iconic sound effect, a swung lightsaber dominates the frame obscuring and de-prioritizing all other elements in the frame. The pizzaz of a lightsaber duel comes to conquer all the other elements.
In this essay I will….
(Note this isn’t a claim that lightsabers aren’t cool or good. Just that they operate on screen differently than metal swords. Sword fights and lightsaber fights are related but simply seperate elements.)
2
17
u/Sid-the-Kid2628 1d ago
Kill bill, Uma vs The Crazy 88. To this day, still the best action fight scene
17
8
4
u/Ell26greatone 1d ago
Inigo Montoya vs. the Six-fingered Man in The Princess Bride.
I cannot speak on the sword fighting, but the drama is as good as it gets
4
4
4
9
u/hyperform2 1d ago
I know what most people think of Phantom Menace but Quigon and Obi vs Dearth Maul is one of the best
5
6
u/buttered_jesus 1d ago
Not a big fan of recent ridley but man the last duel has some great fights
3
→ More replies (1)2
3
u/bluehawk232 David Lynch 1d ago
Mask of Zorro had some good ones especially the one men of culture know about.
→ More replies (2)
3
3
3
3
u/Wonderful_Grab2203 1d ago
I like Kurosawa's films katana duels. Quick with spectacular conclusions.
3
3
u/ricardofitzpatrick 1d ago
Extremely light on action, but narratively, the duel in The Life and Death of Col. Blimp as the camera flies out
3
7
u/SoftwareWinter8414 1d ago
Not a huge fan of the movie but the fight choreography in The Last Samurai is top tier.
8
u/okrutus7837 1d ago
this
→ More replies (1)4
u/thearniethology 1d ago
Which is? Come on people, why do you still need to be begged to share the titles of films you are trying to recommend?
→ More replies (1)4
u/KingMobScene 1d ago
I only know it because other people have mentioned it. It's a Polish film called The Deluge from 1974.
11
3
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
u/Edgecumber 1d ago
The Errol Flynn Robin Hood has great sword fighting. Basil Rathbone was a competitive fencer before filming and taught Flynn (and later others).
2
2
2
3
2
2
1
1
1
1
u/Select_Insurance2000 1d ago
The Adventures of Robin Hood. Flynn vs Rathbone.
Second place is Power vs Rathbone in Zorro.
1
u/Nightfall_Dreamer 1d ago
There is that polish mediaval film whose sword fighting scene is on youtube, I remember people saying it was super realistic.
If we are not caring about realism, then it is Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon for me.
1
u/mrcrazymexican 1d ago
I always regret never getting The Duellists on BD. I just held off for so long and then I forgot. I absolutely love that movie. It's so good.
I wish more of us spoke of it today. Cuz we should.
1
u/mourningreaper00 1d ago
Although most of the movie isn’t this… The Death of Robin Hood had some of the most realistic sword fights/scuffles I’ve ever seen on screen.
1
1
u/vibraltu 1d ago
Zeffirelli's Romeo & Juliet was more realistic than most in showing how fast you can get out of breath!
1
u/Future_Brewski 1d ago
The duel between 007 and Graves in Die Another Day. Yes I’m serious. It’s a fun scene in a mediocre movie.
1
u/TheTacticalViper 1d ago
The Duellists
Rob Roy
Kill Bill
Lone Wolf and Cub
Star Wars episode 1 & 3 (if lightsabers count)
338
u/MaximumWriter3032 1d ago
Harakiri