r/education • u/Annual_Single • 19d ago
Frustrated with 2nd grade - looking for feedback from educators
Hi all. My daughter is in 2nd grade in a top elementary school in the state (we live in the NE). I have found the curriculum in years past way too rigorous - expecting kindergartners to read etc. anyway, today we got a letter from the principal that says they have decided for 2nd grade that there will be EXTRA teachers and pull out sessions for ALL students in the grade. While I think the extra support is amazing, why isn’t this a red flag? I know they just did literary and math assessments last weeks so the timing is interesting.
I am looking for feedback from educators - while the extra support is great, isn’t this a red flag? Or am I way off base?
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u/CoolClearMorning 19d ago
Has there been a lot of chatter around 3rd grade reading scores and students reading on grade level in 3rd grade in your area? Any laws passed during the last legislative session regarding 3rd grade retention for students not reading on grade level?
Extra intervention in second grade, because this is a huge topic in my area, screams that the school is going to be held accountable for scores either this year or next year for that particular age group in a way they haven't been in the past. Your best bet is to schedule a meeting with either the teacher or the principal to ask this question face-to-face as they may not be comfortable putting the real reason in writing.
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u/havenly0112 14d ago
Yes, this. Once the "read by 3 law" in my state started ALL supports went to K-2 with a dash in 3rd. Nothing in 4th and 5th.
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u/Annual_Single 19d ago
Thank you, this is an interesting perspective. Again, I am so grateful for the extra hands, the school is amazing, we’re so lucky but it just seems…off?
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u/Gold_View3554 19d ago
Why are you complaining or wonderin about a good thing? You a conspiracy theorist or just that bored?
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u/Annual_Single 19d ago
You clearly can’t read, it’s okay!
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u/Gold_View3554 19d ago
Sorry. I didn’t have good parents to teach me to read. I wish I had a controlling paranoid gaslighter as a parent who can’t handle criticism. That woulda set me up well in life.
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u/LakeMichiganMan 14d ago
Our schools test kids near the start of the year, then schedule what they call around here, Target Time interventions. Kids meet an interventionist in a small group setting for a 40 minute session each day. This is for students with holes in their reading skills that benefit from extra help. They have progress monitoring and some leave and some join depending on progress. My district is an At Risk one, so qualify for Grant money to pay staff. Every school has a version of this.
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u/WoofRuffMeow 19d ago
Most likely what they are talking about is MTSS (multi-tiered system of supports) and “tier 2” intervention. During this time (in theory) all kids are getting “what they need.” So there’s a meeting group, exceeding group, and intervention group so in that sense all students are participating. In reality, it’s intervention and the kids who don’t need it are working on other things. It’s a thing across the country and not a red flag at all.
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u/Wandering-Mind2025 19d ago
This is probably what is happening. They pull teachers from speech, reading and math intervention, etc. and make smaller classes so there can be more targeted intervention for students that need it. It reminds me of the reading levels I had growing up in the late seventies. However, students are assessed along the way, and when they make progress, they move up to the next level, to make more room for kids that need the intervention.
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u/R_meowwy_welcome 16d ago
Math intervention, reading intervention, etc. The interventionists have their own classroom and pull kids out of the classroom all day long.
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u/Common-Orange4022 19d ago
It’s pretty normal to start having intervention for kids who aren’t reading well by second or third grade. Studies show you’ll really struggle if it’s not nipped by mid elementary school.
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u/Annual_Single 18d ago
That’s not what’s happening. It’s the whole grade.
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u/DepthHistorical5911 16d ago
So every kid will get support at the level appropriate for them. How is this an issue?
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u/AlwaysCalculating 19d ago
I am surprised that you are surprised by this, and especially why it is perceived as negative.
I am a bottom state for education but our district is top in the state - so I imagine your NE school that is top in the state is especially rigorous. However, reading in Kinder is a basic expectation and kids who can’t read, get support.
When my kids’ school does full grade support - most usually for reading and math, they break up into three or four groups based on progression in that subject. This way, the advanced kids get what they need, two groups of average kids get what they need, and those who need additional support and help get what they need.
Are you perceiving the whole system to be broken, as in all kids are performing below grade level and therefore need support to reach baseline standards?
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u/IdislikeSpiders 18d ago
Our school does school wide math and reading groups. This is a time where everyone "gets what they need" and instruction at their ability level spread across 4 or 5 groups based on testing. So some are above grade level, some are below. The intention is to supplement needs of students that aren't met by generalized grade level core curriculum.
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u/msklovesmath 18d ago
Red flag of what exactly?
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u/Annual_Single 17d ago
That the expectations by grade are again going up.
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u/positivelypt 17d ago
The expectations are set by the standards your state adopts. I would look to the state's standards and whether or not they align with the curriculum chosen by your district. If they don't, do they adjust accordingly or teach it exactly as written? Sometimes the rigor situation is entirely out of the teachers' and administrations' hands and are being made by state legislatures and school boards who may or may not have a degree in education or experience in working at a school. It can be very frustrating for those that do have a degree and/or experience.
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u/Annual_Single 16d ago
I appreciate this. I know *nothing* about education - this is my first kid in public school and I work in healthcare. I feel like a total noob
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u/honeyroastedk 19d ago
As others have mentioned sounds like MTSS / RTI. Could be that now after assessing they have a great opportunity to structure groups and provide targeted intervention.
If you’re wondering where your child falls you could ask! I’m sure they’d be happy that you’re interested in supporting your child’s education and partnering with them during this intervention.
I suppose my concern would be more about where does my child fall and what support can I provide at home. If your child is at the top of the group wouldn’t you appreciate them pushing her further so she continues to be challenged? If your child is at the bottom of the group, wouldn’t you like them to work with her on foundational skills while she’s still in the learning to read phase of education?
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u/Annual_Single 18d ago
Oh I know where my child falls. I guess my question was more why extra help is being given to the whole grade in its entirety
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u/Fluffy_Maintenance_5 17d ago
Second grade is the last year to truly learn phonics so it’s super important to not go onto 3rd until you know phonics. It does seem like your daughters grade level is probably a little low but you’re lucky that your district has enough money to do this!! I guess there could be some red flags here - like maybe the k/1 curriculum and instruction was too challenging and many kids didn’t grow or maybe her grade level is extra low in phonics - could have just been a bad first grade teacher! I think my only red flag is like be if my student was low performing and I felt like there wasn’t differentiated instruction, small groups, and If the teacher lacked the control over behavior to properly teach small groups with differentiated levels (this happens a lot in second grade). Maybe you can volunteer and check out the temperature in the room? I am a virtual teacher and a lot of my parents pulled their child out and went virtual bc they were behind in phonics , and the teacher had too many students / not enough control to teach in small groups to close these gaps. If the entire grade level is going on a phonics bootcamp idea , with extra teachers , I would want to know where my child fits in with this , and as long as they had their level of instructional needs met in a calm enough environment , I wouldn’t worry.
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u/Annual_Single 16d ago
This makes so much sense about the phonics - thank you! I work in healthcare and I am completely oblivious to education.
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u/dcsprings 16d ago
I learned to read in a public school kindergarten in the 70s. I may still have Dick and Jane in a box somewhere. Or were they expected to be able to read upon admission?
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u/TerraRicotta_ 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yeah I specifically remember sitting at the table with my teacher in Kindergarten and reading those simple “see spot run” type books while she pointed to each word. This would have been 1999. I would be upset if I sent my kid to a school that didn’t expect basic reading skills by the end of kindergarten. My kid is in preschool, and they are teaching the kids to recognize each individual letter and know what it sounds like, but that’s the extent of it for now.
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u/Ok-Perspective-5109 14d ago
Read upon admission. And write. And have the ability to do simple addition.
It’s ridiculous. The reading and writing expectations are not at all developmentally appropriate for Kinder. And guess what? Most of them can’t read, write or do simple addition. They are given the label of being behind when really they are right on track as they are five.
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u/Complete-Ad9574 18d ago
This is part of fad where schools and parents are obsessed with their toddlers preschool curriculum as a prep for an elite college. Its a pedagogical mindset which always ignores the social and emotional education of the kid and the pace at which a child can absorb the learning.
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u/Annual_Single 18d ago
This! Kids in other countries don’t even start to read until age 7 or 8.
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u/steve_z 15d ago
This is a strange take. The building blocks of reading start when the child is born. Kids tend to learn letters and letter sounds in pre-k, if available, and strengthen that and begin learning c-v-c words in Kindergarten.
At 8 years old is when there is a major shift in curriculum from "learning to read" to "reading to learn". Kids that are not at grade level in 2nd grade need immediate explicit, systematic intervention so they don't fall behind in all subjects.
I recommend looking into "the science of reading" and maybe checking out the podcast "sold a story".
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u/Ok-Perspective-5109 14d ago
The typical age range for grasping reading is between 4 and 8 years of age. In the U.S. we develop curriculums that don’t match the actual developmental skills.
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u/AppleAttchuh 15d ago
They used the assessments to create RTI groups. Each kid is put in a group of other kids who are at the same level. Groups vary in size, usually between 3 and 8, depending on the needs of the group. This means the rti teacher cam get very specific in addressing the skills that need support.
It sounds like at your school all the children receive RTI. It doesnt mean there's anything particularly concerning about their test scores, it just means they have the resources to provide this support to every student.
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u/adaintydisaster 15d ago
Im a 2nd grade nebraska teacher in a high performing district. Its doubtful that ALL students need extra support due to low test scores. It could be that they are differentiating instruction for small groups so some higher kids can get challenged more than they usually would. We have an intervention/enrichment time and we are required to use this time to give extra reading support to low performers in reading. but if staffing allows, we love to get extra practice for students of all levels. We just aren't usually lucky enough to have the man power for that many smaller groups. Id see this as a good thing. Also, 2nd grade is generally seen as a pivotal year for reading. The school could be making sure they focus on this grade more than others because this is a really big year for them. (First year reading the test to themselves, last year to master reading fluently, etc)
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u/SweetTeaMama4Life 15d ago
I taught first and second grade. I’ve read your post several times but I don’t fully understand. What about second grade has been frustrating? Is the extra teacher and pullouts that are causing you concern? Why would it be a red flag? I’m trying to see your perspective of why this could be bad but I’m not connecting the dots.
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u/cordIess 14d ago
It is a red flag if there isn’t support. One thing my district is finally doing right is supporting struggling schools. In the past, I heard horror stories about the district people coming in and tearing down individual teachers. They even literally tore down their anchor charts. Now support is finally teaching children. Professionals are finally responding to data.
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u/ENCALEF 13d ago
It's now expected that kindergartners are reading before first grade. This was not the standard in previous generations but it is now.
The extra support in 2nd grade may be in preparation for standard testing.
Be aware that school funding is based on these metrics.
Contact your PTA or meet with your school principal and ask for explanation.
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u/JEMPhish 13d ago
Trump passed a law starting next year if third graders can’t pass a basic reading test they can’t pass the grade. Sounds like your school is being proactive
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u/AdFlaky1246 19d ago
Some years you just have a big batch of kids that need extra support. Our 2nd grade is like that this year.