r/education • u/starletteexo • 3d ago
As the literacy gap so will the class divide
I find it insane how the literacy rate is only dropping in America. I’m a high school senior applying to college and I have a near-perfect GPA, test scores and everything else but it still feels impossible for my peers and I to get into good colleges, as things are only getting more competitive. However on the flip side there are kids at my school studying basic algebra, and it’s just so sad to me. Especially because a lot of those kids look like me, and in some of my AP classes i can count on one hand the number of POC students. It genuinely breaks my heart because so many people are getting left behind, and will likely end up struggling in life as a result. It’s ridiculous that i engage in conversations about how competitive everything is, but also how low/behind a lot of people are.
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u/MydniteSon 3d ago
Do you know what the biggest indicator of likely student success is?
Zip Code
Socio-economics is a big big factor. It boils down to who sees the long term value in education.
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u/AluminumLinoleum 3d ago
Let's be real, it doesn't matter if you "see the long term value of education" if you are working 2-3 jobs to try to put a roof over your kids' heads.
Our system is working as designed, it's a stratified public school system that makes class mobility more difficult than in many other countries.
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u/Anesthesia222 3d ago
Yeah. I was onboard with Midnyte Son until the last sentence. Wanting a good education for your kids is not enough to make it accessible if you’re living in certain circumstances.
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u/Cold-Nefariousness25 2d ago
There are a lot of bots and trolls pushing right wing agendas on Reddit these days.
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u/Crazy_Specialist_278 3d ago edited 3d ago
As an educator I'm really done with this whole 2-3 jobs to put a roof over your KIDS (plural) heads.
Kids cost money.... I don't understand this mentality of having kids you can't support. I understand the first child may not be the fault of the parents depending on their level of sex education and birth control. But I really think we as a society need to start holding more judgement against people who have children they know they can't support. After the first kid, the consequences are obviously apparent. Every parent I've met wasn't some ignorant person like our grandparents. You have the knowledge readily available... you choose to have kids you obviously can't support.
Why? The only answer to that question is selfishness and entitlement and it breaks my heart. For you and the kids :/
It's selfish and unfair to the children....and to yourself.
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u/AluminumLinoleum 3d ago
Birth control fails, partners die, businesses close, family and public support get cut off, etc. Most people, including the middle class, are basically one serious medical condition away from bankruptcy.
And what good does it do to shame people scraping to get by? Absolutely none.
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u/just-peepin-at-u 3d ago
I am going to say something unpopular that will ruffle some feathers, but some of the lowest “performing” students in some of the schools I have worked in have had parents that didn’t work at all.
Yes, our team knew that as a fact based on conversations had with students and parents.I don’t doubt some were looking for jobs, but I don’t know what percentage.
I also grew up in a very low income rural area, and had peers like I just described, whose kids were doing poorly in school.
The people I knew personally were mostly unemployed on purpose.
I am sure they had their own set of issues that went along with all of that, and they all have their reasons.
I am just saying, there are people who work multiple jobs to support their family, but others who we apply that same reasoning too, in regards to kids who just aren’t doing well at all in school, and it makes no sense at all.
I feel like that was a myth circulated around the trailer park I grew up in (yes, absolutely I have experience in this), off and on. It seems like “copium,” as the kids say now.
We have a chunk of people who are surviving without work and their kids are not doing ok.
They aren’t struggling at school because mom works two jobs. I mean there definitely are plenty of people in that category, yes, but I also see people rushing to throw everyone in there because it is better than “yeah, nobody works and their kids behave terribly and can’t read anywhere close to level.”
Are there others factors? Probably. I am just saying, even in my own family of origin, I saw that.
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u/Idustriousraccoon 3d ago
Statistically that means they were white, uneducated and in red states. Just sayin.
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u/just-peepin-at-u 3d ago
Well, yeah, that would sum up my own experience pretty well, yes.
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u/Cold-Nefariousness25 2d ago
I live in a good school district and most parents are wealthy, way wealthier than I am. Many of their kids are awful. Many of the moms don't work. They do expect that their tax dollars give their kids a good education, but they are not invested in making that happen.
It's not specific to poverty.
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u/Cold-Nefariousness25 2d ago
Zip Codes are tied to tax dollars. Parents working 2 jobs and barely scraping by are not uninterested in education. And there are some poorer parents that are more involved than the wealthy parents whose kids are holy terrors despite having everything handed to them (or maybe because of...)
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u/Mysterious_Bed9648 3d ago
That is something someone made up that's been repeated so much people think it's true. The truth is far more complicated and academic success itself is a multi faceted creature. People repeat this because its simple and people like that. Not too many people want to grapple with the less savory aspects.
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u/bugorama_original 3d ago
I work in a one zip code district and there’s huge disparity of educational outcomes here. It’s not all just wealth. Family education and values matter a ton.
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u/mswoozel 3d ago
I work in South Georgia. In Thomasville, GA there is a white school and a black school across the street from one another. The white school is called the scholars academy. They get free lunches and the buses get those students to and from school. You have to apply and be accepted. Across the street is the public school. No free lunch. No busses to and from the school if students live one mile outside the city due to budget constraints. Insanity. It really is segregated as well. Another school Wilcox County had a segregated prom until recently.
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u/acatdemic_12 2d ago
I grew up in Bibb County and saw something very similar (that continues today), where most of the majority white private schools date back to the 60s and 70s as segregation academies. Meanwhile the majority Black public schools are chronically under-resourced. It’s horrible that de facto segregation is such an ongoing problem, meanwhile I have family members arguing that we live in a post-racial society.
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u/mswoozel 2d ago
I wish I was surprised when I found out but I wasn’t. I teach in the Deep South and racism is alive and well.
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u/cappotto-marrone 3d ago
What is a “good college”? Too many people go into debt when they should be doing their first two years at the local community college. Nobody cares where you took English 101.
I grew up trailer park, welfare cheese poor.
My school choices. Community college. Small (you have probably never heard of) college. State university for graduate school.
I have had a very successful career.
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u/newaccounthomie 3d ago
You’re basically confirming OP’s premise tho.
The upper crust often wants to go to big colleges for their freshman and sophomore years so they can participate in Greek life. For those who can’t afford it, they are missing out on the easiest way to foster connections with privileged people. Then the class divide widens.
This is not me advocating for Greek life. Frats and sororities are awful. I’m just pointing out that they have class consciousness and vouch for people who blend into those exclusive social clubs.
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u/phriot 2d ago
It doesn't even have to be fraternity/sorority things for connections. The social value of groups for class projects, clubs, intermural sports, etc., goes up across the board with the reputation of the college. I went to community college and later transferred to a private small liberal arts college with a good local reputation. The people I went to CC with were great, but many were like first generation immigrants, or just out of the army, or, frankly, poor. Not all, but a large number. While a bunch of them turned out successful, and are great connections today, if you cared about meeting people with family that could help you out, they weren't it. The SLAC, on the other hand, was bursting with social privilege. Many classmates were from families of doctors, professors, finance people, and so on.
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u/itsacalamity 2d ago
Yeah, I went to a very prestigious, nerdy school with very little greek scene and still, met the friends that are my friends to this day, during my freshman year. And those connections are half the reason you pay to go to Nerd University.
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u/Mimi4Stotch 3d ago
I had a coworker (my first year teaching, we were both making $35,000) that was over $125,000 in debt because she went to a private school. When we parted ways she was more in debt than when she started because she was paying only interest.
I’m happy with my community college/state school choices.
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u/itsacalamity 2d ago
I had a roommate who did five years at a school that was 30K+ just for academics and then she also put room and board and books on loans too. Came out with an undergrad psych degree and something like 150K debt. Gave me panic attacks just thinking about it. For good reason....
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u/IKnowAllSeven 3d ago
I think you are right. Families and students would do well to consider colleges on a holistic basis, including affordability.
There are ways to make college affordable but it involves being open to schools besides a “dream school”
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u/Wrong-Ad7846 3d ago
“Nobody cares where you took English 101” is highly questionable when the quality of instruction and the quality/engagement of other students (both important aspects of higher ed) can vary widely and impact how much (and what) students learn. Your assumption that your path will lead to a “very successful career” for others is pretty simplistic, to say the least.
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u/cappotto-marrone 3d ago
Show me proof of employers asking that question. They may care where your bachelors is from.
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u/itsacalamity 2d ago
is the only point of college to later ge ta job?
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u/cappotto-marrone 2d ago
OP’s premise specifically stated class divide. The bigger question of the purpose of education hijacks the conversation.
Perhaps you could post that as a discussion on a different thread?
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u/itsacalamity 2d ago
It's literally downthread from a post discussing how "the quality of instruction and the quality/engagement of other students (both important aspects of higher ed) can vary widely and impact how much (and what) students learn." If you don't care to reply, why reply?
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u/Wrong-Ad7846 2d ago
You’re the one making the simplistic claim (and being belligerently insistent about it). Burden of “proof” is on you. Maybe a better educational experience would have taught you why making such a sweeping generalization based solely on your choices/path (literally a single data point) isn’t a solid argument.
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u/theRetroGarage 1d ago
What do you do for work and what is your career? You degree and school may have more of an importance.
I'm in management now over engineers but I have a Bachelor's of Science in Biology, a Masters of Science in Biomedical Engineering, and a Master in Business Administration.
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u/theRetroGarage 1d ago
I'm almost 40 I've never had my past schooling for my undergrad degree ever questioned and I pay little attention to my hires and instead look to their experience and capabilities in interviews.
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u/Fearless_Tutor3050 10h ago
The networking that you get from making friends and connections with peers in and out of your discipline in your first two years of college are more important than where you take the classes themselves.
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u/Mal_Radagast 3d ago
welp, it is hugely useful to be developing this kind of class consciousness and beginning dialectics before college.
the trick is going to be learning how to leverage that into direct action as we progress through our dystopia. 🙃
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u/Ta-Me5 3d ago
Well a huge part of the gap is also the limited autonomy most districts give teachers. When the autonomy began getting stripped away, scores decreased.
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u/GlobalCurry 3d ago
Is it the same in counties where teachers were trying to go against the standards and teach bible stuff?
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u/liefelijk 3d ago edited 3d ago
Having standards is not the issue. Mandating that teachers follow scripted curricula and focus on test scores can be very damaging, both to teacher buy-in and student success.
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u/Ta-Me5 3d ago
What? Where did this comment even come from 🤦🏽♀️ standards isn’t even the issue. I assume you aren’t a teacher? I’m speaking as someone with almost 30 years in the classroom.
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u/Careless-Degree 3d ago
“But we have to stop the Bible people” is the common response to anyone who doesn’t want all educational decisions made by some committee in DC. It’s nonsensical but it works.
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u/No_Run8942 2d ago
Is the same in the counties where teachers are going against the standards and trying to convince the kids they’re trans?
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u/HoMasters 3d ago
Students at my community college are taking algebra 1 and 2… they’re doing fractions FFS.
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u/midmonthEmerald 2d ago
I did dual enrollment during high school at my local community college during junior and senior year. And the students I saw there were….. bleak. I wasn’t a try hard student myself and got straight As in those classes while I got middling Bs back at my high school. The students at the community college were lost and didn’t care about anything anymore. The community inside of the community college spooked me.
So I went to a more traditional college after high school graduation and took out 120k+ in student loans. What wonderful options. lol.
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u/Cold-Nefariousness25 3d ago
Colleges are harder to get into but college students are less and less prepared for college and professors are frustrated with the quality of students. and the drop is happening worldwide. It's not (just) a class thing. Also, for the person talking about trade schools, people in the trades need math, science and ELA.
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u/hellolovely1 3d ago
You seem like a person with empathy. You're obviously smart. It's up to all of us to work for change. It's not going to be easy, but we need to do it.
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u/connerleec 3d ago
The amount of what aboutism and dismissiveness in ya'll comments is pissing me off.
You're just right, OP. It's bullshit. Your compassion will help shape your path. But this division of class by way of knowledge is highly intentional. My generation watched it happen as we grew up. You inherited it. It's why I'm on this thread, cause I'm interested in inspiring younger people to love writing and reading. But we are in the midst of a breaking point in how this country handles its evils, and it's showing very plainly.
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u/HiddenCoFactor 3d ago
Some people get it, and some people don’t. While I was waiting for a spot to open in AP Lit, I had to sit in senior English, and it’s just a different world. Unruly, barely able to read, lack of critical thinking. Even amongst my peers in AP, some became failed rappers or even homeless after high school. Now that I’m much older, what’s worse is that these people have the same voting power as I do.
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u/itsacalamity 2d ago
Oh yeah, being put as a full IB senior into a standard-level geography class meant for sophomores was an EYE-OPENING experience. That teacher hated me because I'd call him on his shit. It was great fun for me but holy shit yeah, the whole voting thing plus yknow 'the fate of the world' is p fuckin' sad
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u/K_Linkmaster 3d ago
Talk to your educators about this. Talk to your peers. The teachers won't fail because the formers teachers are admins and like their jobs. As a student saying you feel dumber than the previous generations might be an eye opener.
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u/Consistent_Damage885 3d ago
I think literacy of less tested generations of the past is greatly exaggerated.
The tests they did take were objectively easier in particular in math, based on analysis of people getting old and new tests and comparing them.
Algebra being required for high school graduation is a relatively new phenomenon and in the past significant portions of students may never even take it because they were tracked out of it.
I found high school of my grandparents and it was analogous to 6 th grade work today for one of them and maybe 8th for the other.
The main areas of decline are concentrated related. Reading novels. Writing longer papers. The associated skills related to those things, as well.
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u/Gecko99 2d ago
I'm only speaking from anecdotes here, so take it with a grain of salt. I remember talking to my grandfather about my aunt, who has a master's degree in nursing and grew up in Connecticut. He said she was a great student and took all the hardest courses, "even trigonometry!" I took trig as part of basic geometry in 10th grade and nowadays lots of kids learn it earlier. Was that really considered advanced math in the 1970s-80s?
My stepfather dropped out of high school and joined the Marines. He claimed he had straight A's all through school. I'd get screamed at all the time for having so much homework and not getting perfect grades while enrolled in an IB program. Eventually I found some old report cards of his, they were a mix of random grades ranging from F to B. He admitted he didn't know why they gave him anything other than F because he didn't really ever show up to school during the last three years from when he was 14-17 years old. So he was just getting passed along until he joined the Marines in the late 1970s.
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u/Level-Aide-8770 3d ago
This post is all over the place. Are things really that competitive or is that just what you’re being told? The college age population is decreasing and many schools are accepting almost everyone. Statistically, where you go to college doesn’t have that much of a long term impact unless you go to an Ivy League school. Reconsider what you’re being sold.
It sounds like you’re not in a very diverse school. Students don’t need to take AP classes to go to college. Not everyone needs or should go to college, and many people find good careers without a college degree.
I can’t follow how you think the literacy gap plays into this. Don’t get me wrong. Kids should read more but how does that impact college prospects? Again, there are a set number of colleges and they need to accept a certain number of students to stay in business. The number of available students is decreasing. It’s concerning that kids don’t read as much anymore but it won’t impact their ability to go to colleges and from what I read colleges are dumbing down coursework to account for it.
Bottom line - it sounds like you’re going to be fine. Not everyone is the same. Just because someone follows a different path doesn’t mean they’re wrong. Just because someone else is stressed out doesn’t mean they should be or that you should be. If you really care about “the literacy gap” then volunteer with younger kids to help them read.
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u/tyrekecorrea 3d ago
Insane bad or insane impossible? it's far from impossible. with the media nurturing and catering to short attention spans and people not bothering to evaluate what comes from it or prioritize teaching people how, we're rather fortunate there's still literacy at all.
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u/SinfullySinless 3d ago
Gen Z has better literacy rates than Boomers and Gen X.
Low test scores are due to state standards constantly becoming more. ELA standards from 2000’s vs 2020’s are very different, more is expected of 2020 students.
The literacy rate isn’t dropping. Well it can in your area if you have an influx of immigrants.
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u/Aware_Twist7124 3d ago
I think this is being done on purpose. I've been looking a lot at policies and there are so many that seem to be "accidentally" locking people into certain neighborhoods. Like a TIF-funded down payment help that locks people into a 30 year commitment in the area where their families were previously locked into a redlined area. They have to pay back the down payment if they move. Or building a center for black excellence which again seems more about segregation. "English Learners" are becoming less esteemed and treated as though they had learning disabilities and I feel like there is a push to get more kids routed into CTE at a younger age.
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u/strawberrysweettart6 3d ago
But they are getting left behind from their own behavior and effort. They don’t read at home. Their parents didn’t read to them. They stay up to 3am playing video games and sleep in class. Thats on them
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u/Virtual-Librarian-32 2d ago
The really sad thing is that 20 years ago, you likely would have been an “average” student.
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u/Complete-Ad9574 2d ago
What type of literacy is being taught? What is needed? Does the teaching of curriculum match the mode of brain function for each age group?
Most people who cry that literacy rates are falling think that there is one magical form of literacy. I bet most people who are stamped as being literate are not good at understanding the many forms of writing in science, technology, law, politics, philosophy. Each has its own jargon, each has its own dense database of history and understanding. So much of science is niche knowledge. If you have been taught the mysteries of math and its use in physics, electricity, engineering, statistics, economics it will be like reading a foreign language.
When I was teaching, I would ask my students what they were learning in their "English" class. Mostly it was non fiction literature and grammar. Not very useful in understanding magnetism or how plants covert water & sunlight into sugar.
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u/Forward-Drawer-7204 17h ago
I think the problem today is teaching materials that doesn't match a child's brain development - I agree with you - too much too early, little reviews and repetition, and total ignorance if fundamental skills
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u/TraditionalHome990 2d ago
I was in standard algebra but did AP/ college level for most everything else.
Some kids are just wired differently.
Some kids had a really, unfathomably horrible teacher for 7th grade math that would call you to the front to humiliate you in front of the class and never taught anything.
Some kids just like writing more than math, etc.
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u/MentionBoring7949 2d ago
Schools only care about attendance and state test scores at this point. My area has a large population of POC, especially Mexican and Latino people, and the schools have a lot of good resources for struggling students and English language learners, and the local community college is really big on respecting student diversity and culture, and uplifting them instead of prioritizing Western culture and English. Not all students have that though, especially farther away from the Pacific and East Coast. It has definitely inspired me to want to have a multilingual classroom and promoting translanguaging. I know quite a bit of Spanish from living in the area and taking classes, and I know a bit of Khmer from classes, so I’m hoping I will be able to do that when I become a teacher. I have 2 years left of my degree and then a year for my credential 😁
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u/Ordinary-Ad-3719 2d ago edited 2d ago
It has gotten more alarming to me when I entered my first year of college this year. Sometimes I question how these people got here, or if they are trying (Im sure some of them aren’t). I am absolutely a flawed writer when it comes to punctuation and various other parts of writing, and I’m positive there will be mistakes in this comment as well. However, a large majority of discussion posts or essays I am meant to peer review or reply to are actually really disheartening, the bare minimum is not even there. No capitalization for names of people, or for when they say “I”, a lack of punctuation, severely limited vocabulary, and frequent misspelling of relatively simple words for our age group.
The US is in need of sweeping education reform once again, no child left behind didn’t turn out as it meant to, and covid not only exposed that but also accelerated it.
It’s even more heartbreaking when you talk to some of these people and they are genuinely intelligent and have great ideas but just have not been given the right tools and resources to succeed academically.
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u/PeaCompetitive8947 1d ago
I’m not sure what you’re talking about, as things have only gotten less competitive. College attendance reached its peak 15 years ago. It then plateaued and is declining. You should have an easier time now than anyone in the last 15 years.
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u/theRetroGarage 1d ago
Is part of the problem is you may have a "perfect" GPA but that's not normalized. Does your school go by 4.0 or 5.0 scale? I had "valedictorians" from other shitty high schools in my college classes that likely would've barely passed at other schools.
How is your school rated?
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u/oldRoyalsleepy 1d ago
Arguing about which college is important is not the point. OP is talking about the disparity between the AP college track high school students and the students well behind on reading ability or struggling to pass algebra one.
Every effort should be made to have small class sizes and great reading and math teachers in K-3rd grade so all kids in all schools get off to a good start and can read and do math on grade level.
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u/Empress_Clementine 1d ago
What does algebra have to do with literacy? It blows young people’s mind today, but I graduated high school without ever taking an algebra class. In the 80s you could choose your math classes, I opted for accounting to get the credits. Which actually gave me a skill I used as an adult. And again, had nothing to do with my ability to read and write. Kind of ironic you’d use that as an example.
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u/w0nderingaloud 3d ago
I think this is a valid concern. However, you are also overlooking how much more valuable trade jobs will be in the next decade. While you might see your peers as uneducated, they may just struggle at school but that doesn’t mean they will be failures at life. Trade jobs have better earning potential than many jobs that require a 4yr degree. Not everyone’s path looks the same.
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u/Specious_Human 8h ago
As someone that teaches in the trades, the kids that can't read well or do basic math are also deeply in trouble when it comes to the trades. Most modern trades beyond basic laborer are as complicated and intellectually challenging as most any job reserved for college graduates.
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u/Flabonzo 3d ago
Literacy issue:
" it still feels impossible for my peers and I to get into good colleges,"
That is why you cannot get into a good college. It's something a third grade student should be able to correct.
If I were to read an application and you said something like that, I would simply discard the application.
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u/idont_readresponses 3d ago
Well, good thing you aren’t a college admissions officer, because if one misplaced pronoun is enough for you to dismiss an otherwise thoughtful applicant, you’d be pretty terrible at your job.
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u/starletteexo 3d ago
Hi so I didn’t re-read my post bc this isn’t a college application, and was a quick thought I had while in the car. Hope this helps!
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u/Careless-Degree 3d ago
Well if it makes you feel better the POC kids are gonna get into college, abilities and skills don’t matter for that anymore, just thought I’d point that out since that seems to be your main concern.
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u/noviadecompaysegundo 2d ago
Are you saying that black kids just get into college cuz they’re black?
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u/connerleec 3d ago
what a ridiculous comment. be gone.
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u/Careless-Degree 3d ago
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/9/3/new-math-intro-course/
One of the most renowned college in the world with a 4% acceptance rate can’t select kids capable of basic math or they are selecting kids based upon something else entirely.
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u/connerleec 3d ago
God forbid we respond to the realities of where kids are at. See, here's what i can tell about you. You are looking for unfairness upon you, where there is fairness being created to uplift all people in our society. Sort that out inside yourself and stop posting.
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u/Careless-Degree 3d ago
My point is that if Harvard cared about selecting students based upon their ability to do basic skills they would. They are selecting kids based upon something else.
Community colleges exist to help people with their intro to math needs.
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u/Beginning-Sound1261 2d ago edited 2d ago
One thing to add to this is that high school education has really deteriorated. There is a report from UCSD on incoming student prepardness that is really insightful: Link
A long read. One major thing they talk about is how it’s really difficult to evaluate a students competencies now based on high school transcripts. Like there are students somehow getting A’s in their high school calculus classes but literally placing at middle school level in math proficiency tests when they get to college. That’s insane.
Additionally, they discuss things like how “pre-developmental” education courses they needed to develop aren’t successful. Like high school algebra/geometry was developmental ed., but they had about 1 in 8 students testing below that. So they essentially introduced middle school math for students take before taking the developmental education courses. They found that the students that went through that path in a year still had the same fail rate when they got to calculus as if they were thrown into calculus. It leads to the question “Is it even possible make up for 6-8 years of education in a 1-2 years?”
It’s really insightful, and I find that all the colleges I talk to it is pretty universal. Even someone I know at the Ivy League level says “Yeah there is a significant amount of students we think should be strong coming in… just aren’t anymore.”
For what that’s worth.
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u/Careless-Degree 2d ago
I personally think that the lack of actual feedback and unrelenting meaninglessness of the current state of education creates a feedback loop. The kids know everything is fake and dumb.
Also standardized testing should be able to sniff this out very quickly but colleges moved away from those because it clashed with their ideological needs.
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u/Beginning-Sound1261 2d ago
You’re right about standardized testing. The issue is that COVID hit that standardized testing like the SATs became very hard to administer so colleges essentially had to waive them during COVID. So admissions everywhere waived the SAT requirement. They haven’t wide spread be reintroduced. There are also people in higher education (not me don’t shoot the messenger) that think they are biased. Yes POC tend to do worse. It’s in the data, I won’t elaborate.
So it’s a perfect storm at the current point that standardized testing isn’t done and there are a large amount of high schools that don’t uphold any standard. Hence, at the moment, it’s really difficult for even elite institutions to evaluate competencies. No standardized testing and meaningless transcripts.
There is a rising push to reintroduce standardized testing as an admissions requirement. I pray for the return of SATs as an admission requirement, if you want my opinion.
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u/Careless-Degree 2d ago
it’s really difficult for even elite institutions to evaluate competencies.
I would question if that’s even what they are interested in.
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u/connerleec 3d ago
First, that article doesn't suggest what you are saying; it's for all students that need to fill gaps. Even if it did, you are implying that the "something else" isn't valid enough. Not only is it valid; it's important. Finally, using Harvard's singular program as an example to counter OP's point is dismissive to their valid take.
I bid you good day, sir.
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u/Careless-Degree 3d ago
That’s fine, if Harvard is interested in something else that is valid, but isn’t a learning place for capable and industrious students that’s a perfectly reasonable position for them to take, but everyone should at least acknowledge that Harvard has more interest in basic mathematics than world class scholarship.
Acknowledging that Harvard and your local community colleges have the same educational interests is something I hope all the guidance counselors are sharing with their students, it will greatly reduce their stress level.
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u/starletteexo 3d ago
what do u even mean by this? DEI is over…
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u/noviadecompaysegundo 2d ago
Even when there was DEI, no one was getting into college without the right stats.
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u/Gecko99 2d ago
If students of color are unprepared for college they will fail out after about a year or so. That's doing them and their families a big disservice. It would be better to find a way to make sure they have the skills and the mindset to succeed in school and not just treat college as something people get shoved into, at great cost, when high school graduates them.
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u/10xwannabe 3d ago
Why does it matter if they look like you are are POC??
Being literate is good for ALL. Folks spend too much time looking through the lens of folks color. NOT keeping expectations high for everyone is the reason education (like any field) goes south.
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u/Anesthesia222 3d ago edited 3d ago
The focus on graduation rates being a measure of success is lowering standards in certain places (like the Title I schools I’ve worked in). The differences between what my nephews are doing in their public schools in an affluent nearby city and what my low-income students of color are being expected to do in OUR school is drastic.
E.g.
Sure, we know Johnny can’t write more than one coherent sentence at a time, but he has an IEP and a single mom, and he tries really hard and has such good manners with teachers…
(From a counselor) Sure, Jessica has missed more days this semester than she’s been present, but she told me she really wants to graduate, so what can YOU do to help her catch up in these last 3 weeks of the semester?
*Based on real events