r/enlightenment • u/EasySkirt1224 • 22h ago
Quote/Picture This is it?
Should I try having these things?
I've heard that advance people taking these and attain a high state of mind
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u/ObamiumCrystalHunter 22h ago
Everyone's path is different. Generally it's a really bad idea to look at what someone you think is spiritually advanced is doing and try to copy it. Buddhism in particular warns about giving high-level instructions too early, and I'd say this is very true of substances as well.
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u/Savings_Chemical4986 21h ago
High level instructions such as? Could you kindly explain, thanks.
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u/SquashSpirited7873 21h ago
Look, for example, at the Bhagavad Gita 18.66-67:
Abandon all varieties of dharmas and simply surrender unto Me alone. I shall liberate you from all sinful reactions; do not fear.
This instruction should never be explained to those who are not austere or to those who are not devoted. It should also not be spoken to those who are averse to listening (to spiritual topics), and especially not to those who are envious of Me.
Here Krishna reveals that the highest form of practice is simply surrendering to God. That all other "varieties of dharmas" — ie, other religious and ritual practices — are to be abandoned for the single instruction of surrender.
He then qualifies that this should not be told to those who are not devoted. Why?
Because one who is not devoted will inevitably interpret these instructions to abandon dharma and simply surrender in a way that justifies their doing whatever they want. But the undevoted do not yet want liberation.
The truth of this passage is clearly seen in the proliferation of spiritual bypassing within the New Age communities that arrives with premature instructions to surrender, that "what you resist persists" and so on. This is pure poison to a soul that has not yet become strengthened in its faith in the divine, and remains totally under the sway of karmic entanglement. In such a condition, "surrender to God" is impossible, and will only lead to further karmic churn.
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u/Savings_Chemical4986 21h ago
An excellent pearl of knowledge that you just dropped. You explained it so coherently. Thank you very much for sharing.
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u/mcove97 17h ago
Ooo great examples. Yes I'm realizing more and more why a lot of religious lessons are so plain, like treating others kindly, with generosity, or like simple moral lessons.
The higher wisdoms and lessons when given to someone who are not ready for them inevitably gets twisted into doing whatever one wants. And then often turn into doing more harm than good
Like I realized that the great lesson of grace, or being in a liberated/spiritually freed state of grace, is surrender to that complete non dual non judgmental present awareness and embodiment and expression.
But it took me forever to get it, especially since everyone around me was "hell-bent" lol, on insisting we're all guilty sinners, and projecting guilt unto themselves and others including myself, and then everyone feeling and experiencing guilt, yet claiming being saved by Grace. Despite being chained to a conviction in viewing oneself as inherently guilty and flawed. Uh huh.
It took a lot of introspection and meditation for me to untangle and even begin to grasp. To realize theres no such thing as guilt when I stay present and aware in that non dual non judgmental graceful state of awareness and surrender. That judgment, sin, flaws, thats all our own egoic or dualistic projections missing the mark on the non dual truth. That there is no such thing as inherent guilt. It's just something we project onto ourselves from our dualistic mind and thus create the experience of.
And yeah new age has a way of spiritual bypassing. Coming out of Christianity though, the problem wasn't just premature instructions to surrender, but not even any teachings on what that means in grounded, relatable understandable easily practical or applicable ways. Like, practicing viewing oneself gracefully, without negative judgment for starters. Or observing oneself or others or situations without making or identifying oneself with negative or good/bad judgment statements.
Anyone can say have faith in grace. But what good is it to have conviction in it as a concept, if one isn't actually practicing it as an awareness, or perception of oneself or others.
Suffering from guilt ceased a lot for me once I surrendered the need to perceive everything as bad and good and just stayed in that graceful non judgmental awareness. But simply believing in grace as a concept did potato all for me but riddle me with even more guilt, because I wasn't actually aware of viewing or perceiving myself, others, situations, that way.
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u/ObamiumCrystalHunter 17h ago edited 10h ago
Such as explaining advanced concepts like non-duality too early, because then people form a mental image they become attached to. Sam Harris mentioned someone he knew who was convinced she reached enlightenment, until someone asked how long she could go without thinking, at which point she realized she was just thinking about enlightenment non-stop.
Another example would be the Buddhist teaching that ultimately there's no difference between good and bad, Nirvana and Samsara etc. if someone learns this without realizing it, they're likely to go do drugs, drink or engage in other self-destructive behaviours because now they're a nihilist.
And that's why it's dangerous to just copy other people who seem enlightened. Byron Katie, one of my favourite authors, talked a bit about cigarettes specifically and said after awakening she neither makes an effort to avoid or pursue them, she just takes them sometimes when offered. But someone might see this and think, "oh, I guess cigarettes are ok even if you're spiritual!" and turn into an addict. On the outside it looks the same - they're both smoking - but the internal experience couldn't be more different.
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u/dawgoooooooo 18h ago
This is always the answer and important to keep as a thought in clear view. Although it’s hard to vocalize, everyone knows if they’re on their own path or not, and connecting with that feeling is most important above all else. lol love the handle/how’s the hunt going?
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u/Ok_Lead9091 22h ago
Yep, it's own individual and personal journey and experience. Nothing too complicated.
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u/PokiP 22h ago
Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
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u/Temporary-Beyond-683 20h ago
It really is exactly this. Life continues to flow no matter what. Both pics are still holding onto an ego
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u/StarBornFire 21h ago
After enlightenment, swim in the crystal clear water of truth and pass out cups of this water to others who have some interest.
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u/SquashSpirited7873 21h ago
Beginner detected.
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u/FitGQ83 12h ago
My 1st reaction to reading this was "kind of a douche thing to say, but whatever, still maybe deserves a quarter smirk. Not that big of a deal either way"
But after seeing the epic lore that followed this statement... I had to come back this comment just to give it a like
I apologize, I had eyes but I failed to see Mount Tai 🙇🏾♂️👏🏾
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u/StarBornFire 20h ago edited 19h ago
Well I'm definitely not fully enlightened currently. But also nowhere close to being a beginner. Came in strongly attuned to hyper empathy and universal love consciousness, spoke to my parents about the need for humans to care about and love each other a lot more in a universal sense. When asked, "what do you want to be when you grow up?", because I could feel humanity's suffering so intensely, I told them, "I want to be a 'doctor' to everyone, everywhere, and I'll always be there for someone who needs someone."
My dad is a sensitive, spiritually inclined musician and he was deeply moved by the things I would say, and wrote a song about it called Dr. Everywhere. This is a friend and I doing a cover:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg43X3A3sZIThey split when I was 5, and my mom raised me in a belief system free household because as a kid, she had had belief systems shoved down her throat, and she didn't want to do the same to us.
When 12 started to get very interested in science and wanted to become a scientist, that was until an odd experience started to occur. At night while laying in bed relaxing and trying to fall asleep, I started to get these out of the blue thought-feeling-knowings about concepts that were very foreign to my conscious mind--things like, "Everything is interconnected at a fundamental level, universal love is the most important things in the universe, the physical is not all there is to reality, there is something like a feminine and masculine energy in all things but to different proportions, big changes are coming to the world in my lifetime that will affect everything and everyone (sense of, they would be quite challenging but ultimately lead to positive outcomes), etc, etc."
This experience catalyzed a conscious interest in exploring whether or not other humans had similar insights. And found out indeed, they had. Shortly after started to meditate, read eastern philosophy, the world religions, various metaphysics, and spiritual subjects. And started to consciously observe and work on my ego tendencies trying to become more ethical, self honest, loving to others, etc.
Went through hell and back several times growing up, between an abusive, literal sociopathic step father (who has been to prison multiple times for fraud), my beloved mother who I share the same b-day with getting sick with cancer when I was 16 and dying shortly after I turned 20, personal health problems, financial struggles, some severely toxin relationships, being bullied by others from K to 12, etc.
Started working intense service to others jobs that paid crap, like in home care work, working with students and adults with autism and/or other disabilities, etc, etc.
Well, now 33 years later, and I've started getting guidance from my higher self that I will create the light body when my body is killed helping others in the relatively near future post collapse of this so called "civilization." In a couple days, going to the woods to water fast, meditate, pray, chant/tone, and attune for about 40 days.
Yes, quite the beginner indeed. Or, perhaps like is typical with humans, when a person judges and criticizes another that they don't know at all, it is often an unconscious projection of their own disowned shadow and traits of same.
I'd be curious to hear about your background and path? How you actually walk the walk, and not just talk the talk?
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u/herzy3 20h ago
Sheesh
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u/StarBornFire 20h ago
Why would someone talking about their experiences bother and annoy you?
Because of "ego"? Yeah, I've already been through the whole "pretend you don't have any ego as to appear more 'spiritual' to others than you really are" thing.
Newsflash, as long as you're connected to a physical human animal body, you'll always have some ego and best to accept that and just live authentically and sincerely.
And yes, I certainly do have "ego." and probably my response was partially motivated out of same, but I can also say it was not solely of and from ego, but to illustrate some deeper points. Like why random criticism and judgement of others one doesn't know at all, is often just unconscious projection.
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u/StarBornFire 20h ago
I'm curious, would a nearly or very enlightened person have a very strong focus on money and finance? What is your opinion of that?
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u/StarBornFire 19h ago
Seems to me that A LOT of ego is pretty involved with the strong attachment to money and finances and the gaining of same.
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u/SquashSpirited7873 19h ago
Many of your comments are rather self-serious, so my "beginner detected" was mostly just joshing you.
That said, the "beginner" phase in the joke is simply the phase of identifying with the spiritual ego, which you obviously still do.
Any attempt to prove that I "walk the walk" would simply be more "talking the talk", and there is no way around that.
Whether you take my words or leave them is not my concern.
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u/StarBornFire 18h ago
What is more ego centered? Judging/criticizing others or speaking of self? I know where my vote would go-guess I'm a leftist so to speak in this case.
Everyone here has ego. It cannot be fully transformed until the dense, ultra slow vibratory physical human animal body is fully converted into the body of light.
If you think you don't have any ego, my friend, you are deluding yourself. Your initial criticism/judgement or rather "joshing around" came from ego.
Currently, my ego is being heightened temporarily, as indicated by transit Mars in Leo starting to conjoin my Ascendant point. Thankfully it is just a passing cloud to so speak. (Mars as a symbol is very connected to red and 1st center energy i.e. very ego connected).
Only the Clear white Light and those of same are egoless. And pretending like one doesn't have an ego meanwhile is a sure recipe for it coming out in weird, unhealthy, and/or passive aggressive ways like randomly insulting others that didn't even say anything to you to begin with.
You poked someone, and then when they react to said poke, you play the innocent and just make it about them and their lacks i.e insult them again about their spiritual ego.
You would know how limiting that is if you weren't also a beginner.
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u/SquashSpirited7873 18h ago
Sorry, bro, it's fun to poke you because you are so consistently reactive.
You are like a living object lesson in the mechanics of ego-defense.
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u/Carimusic 19h ago
Well, I too am definitely not fully enlightened currently. But also nowhere close to being a beginner at recognizing the subtle ways the ego disguises itself as spiritual discernment, particularly when it feels its status as an advanced spiritual being has been insufficiently acknowledged by strangers on the internet.
When I was very young, I too was deeply concerned about human suffering. I wanted people to love one another, transcend their conditioning, and recognize the interconnectedness of all living beings. As I grew older, I became fascinated by spirituality, Eastern philosophy, meditation, and the possibility of transcending the ego.
Over the years, however, I began to notice something rather peculiar. Human beings are remarkably capable of turning almost anything into a source of personal identity, including the pursuit of freedom from personal identity.
Someone might begin by wanting to be recognized as intelligent, successful, or important. After discovering spirituality, they might instead want to be recognized as unusually compassionate, deeply awakened, exceptionally self-aware, or significantly further along the path than the average human being.
The external symbols of achievement change, but the underlying desire for distinction can remain remarkably intact.
Indeed, the ego seems perfectly capable of transforming the desire for superiority into a belief that one has transcended the desire for superiority. Rather conveniently, this still leaves one feeling rather special.
I mention this because I've come to appreciate the difference between having experiences that feel profound and developing the capacity to respond to ordinary experiences with equanimity.
It is one thing to experience universal love while meditating beneath the stars, contemplating the interconnectedness of existence, or receiving guidance from one's higher self. It is another thing entirely to experience universal love when somebody on Reddit types two words that appear to question one's spiritual sophistication.
The first experience can be extraordinarily moving. The second can be extraordinarily informative.
I have tremendous respect for people who dedicate their lives to spiritual exploration, helping others, and understanding themselves. But suffering does not automatically produce wisdom, knowledge does not automatically produce humility, and decades of meditation do not necessarily prevent someone from becoming attached to the idea that they are spiritually advanced.
Imagine, for instance, encountering a comment consisting of nothing more than "beginner detected."
One might laugh, recognize that an anonymous internet comment has very little bearing on one's actual development, and continue with one's day.
Alternatively, one might feel compelled to assemble a comprehensive autobiographical account encompassing childhood sensitivity, parental influence, mystical experiences, decades of philosophical inquiry, traumatic relationships, personal health struggles, selfless service, communication with the higher self, impending civilizational collapse, and an anticipated transformation of the body into a light body after death.
One might then conclude by suggesting that the person who wrote the original comment is projecting their own disowned shadow.
I find this last possibility fascinating because it illustrates how easily psychological concepts can become tools for protecting ourselves against criticism.
If someone agrees with us, they recognize our wisdom. If they disagree, they reveal their conditioning. If they criticize us, they project their shadow. And if they dismiss us with two words, they demonstrate their inability to recognize our level of development.
Under such a framework, virtually every possible response becomes confirmation of our own superiority.
It is a wonderfully self-sealing arrangement. The ego retains its preferred self-image regardless of the evidence, while enjoying the additional satisfaction of believing it has understood the psychological shortcomings of everyone who challenges it.
Naturally, I am not suggesting that I have transcended these tendencies myself. That would be a rather convenient conclusion for someone writing about the importance of not believing oneself spiritually superior.
I have my own insecurities, attachments, blind spots, and moments of defensiveness. I have undoubtedly mistaken confidence for understanding and the ability to explain a concept for the ability to embody it.
But I am increasingly interested in noticing these moments rather than immediately constructing elaborate explanations for why they do not really count.
Which brings me to a question for anyone who has spent a substantial portion of their life pursuing enlightenment:
What exactly are we trying to protect when we feel compelled to demonstrate how far we have progressed?
Is it the truth of what we have experienced? Our desire to help others? Or the image we have constructed of ourselves as someone who has understood and transcended more than the people around us?
These motivations can coexist. A sincere desire to share something meaningful can coexist with a desire to be admired for possessing it.
Perhaps this is particularly difficult to recognize in spiritual communities, where admitting ordinary insecurity can feel inconsistent with an identity built around being awakened or beyond the limitations of the ego.
There is a certain irony in becoming so attached to the idea of having transcended the ego that acknowledging an ordinary ego reaction becomes more threatening than the reaction itself.
And there is an even greater irony in contemplating universal love for decades, only to discover that one's love becomes unexpectedly conditional when someone fails to acknowledge one's spiritual credentials.
Of course, perhaps the person who wrote "beginner detected" was being dismissive. Perhaps they were being provocative. Perhaps they were simply making a joke.
We cannot know much about someone from two words.
Which is precisely why I would hesitate to construct an elaborate psychological diagnosis of them on that basis.
The spiritual path can be a peculiar undertaking. We begin by wanting to understand ourselves, then become invested in ensuring that other people understand how much we understand ourselves.
We begin by questioning our stories, then construct an extraordinary story about the person we have become by questioning those stories.
We seek freedom from external validation, then discover that being recognized as someone who no longer needs external validation can itself become an attractive form of validation.
I am still learning, naturally. I expect to continue learning for the remainder of my life. I would be suspicious of any understanding of enlightenment that made me feel there was nothing left to question, particularly when the conclusion happened to be that I was considerably more advanced than someone who disagreed with me.
As for the person who wrote "beginner detected," I wish them well on their journey. Perhaps they are a beginner. Perhaps they are not. Perhaps they were simply amusing themselves on Reddit, blissfully unaware that their two-word contribution would inspire a detailed account of somebody else's spiritual biography.
After all, I am only human.
And, as I understand it, learning to recognize the limitations of one's own perspective is supposed to be part of the process.
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u/StarBornFire 18h ago
I'm not free of ego and I'm not fully enlightened, never claimed to be. No one here at this site is, unless Robert Monroe's "He/She" has a reddit account and posts here. I've been very cleanly told that the full enlightenment doesn't come until the full light body is created.
You just wrote a post that was easily two times longer than my autobiographical one, and quite long in general, about how much I am coming from spiritual ego.
Do you not see any hypocrisy in this? Are you "trying to help me" or just trying to appear as the wiser, more knowing one? Maybe a little of both perhaps, as humans and human behavior is rarely ever black and white. We human beings are a messy bag of conflicting intentions, desires, emotions, thoughts, etc. Much of which, much of the time is unconscious.
But to speak to it some. My initial instinct was just to ignore that person's poke. I got the sense that they were looking for a reaction. But since I got the sense it was unconscious shadow projection, I'd thought it might be helpful to point all that out consciously and why it was.
Most people cannot tell someone's exact "level" from just a few posts, unless they are very intuitively-psychically skilled, and even then, there will always be room for error and subjectivity.
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u/Carimusic 16h ago
Brother, I think perhaps there has been a slight misalignment in the frequencies through which we are communicating. 🙏
I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your response, and I can see that you have invested considerable energy in examining the potential hypocrisy of my position. However, after sitting with your words for a while, I have begun to wonder whether we might be approaching this interaction from two rather different levels of interpretive awareness.
You see, when I encountered your original autobiographical transmission, I was struck not only by its content, but by the extraordinary narrative opportunity it presented. Here was a person describing decades of spiritual exploration, childhood mystical experiences, profound suffering, service to humanity, communication with the higher self, impending civilizational collapse, and the anticipated creation of a light body, all in response to someone typing two words.
I found the juxtaposition genuinely fascinating.
There was something almost archetypal about it. The seeker, having devoted a substantial portion of their existence to transcending the ego, finds themselves confronted with a minor disturbance in the form of an anonymous internet comment. What follows is a comprehensive account of their spiritual biography, concluding with an interpretation of the commenter's unconscious shadow dynamics.
I thought this was rather funny.
Not funny in the sense of ridicule, necessarily, but funny in the way that human existence itself can be funny when viewed from a sufficient distance. The cosmic dance of consciousness, temporarily forgetting its own nature, becoming deeply invested in its spiritual identity, and then explaining to strangers why their failure to recognize that identity is evidence of their own unconscious projections.
So I decided to participate in the dance.
I wrote an excessively long response about the ego, spiritual identity, and the curious tendency of people to demonstrate their spiritual advancement by explaining how spiritually advanced they are not. I deliberately mirrored the solemnity, the elaborate introspection, and the autobiographical-philosophical tone of your original post.
In retrospect, perhaps I should have included a small disclaimer explaining that the response was intended humorously. Although I had assumed that the exaggerated length, the repetition of your central themes, and the increasingly self-referential nature of the argument would provide sufficient clues to its underlying intention.
Apparently, I may have overestimated the transmissibility of irony across the digital medium.
Your response, meanwhile, was to explain that I had written an even longer post than you had, question whether I was attempting to appear wiser, and suggest that perhaps we were both operating from conflicting intentions.
Which is, of course, a perfectly reasonable observation when applied to an earnest philosophical disagreement.
It is simply not quite the observation I was expecting in response to a joke.
I should perhaps clarify that I am not criticizing you for failing to recognize the humor immediately. Irony is a complicated phenomenon, and written communication lacks many of the contextual signals that make humorous intent easier to recognize in person. Furthermore, spiritual discussions can be deeply personal, particularly when they involve experiences that have shaped a person's understanding of reality.
I can appreciate that.
But I do find it interesting that, upon encountering a response that questioned the relationship between spiritual identity and ego, your immediate interpretation was that I was attempting to establish myself as spiritually superior to you.
You then proceeded to explain the limitations of my perspective, the possibility of my own unconscious motivations, and the hypocrisy inherent in criticizing another person's ego while producing a lengthy response of my own.
In other words, you responded to a satirical imitation of spiritual self-importance by earnestly explaining why its author might be spiritually self-important.
I have to admit, there is something rather elegant about that.
The universe occasionally demonstrates a sense of humor that is difficult to improve upon.
And perhaps there is a lesson here for both of us. Not necessarily about enlightenment, the ego, or the nature of consciousness, but about the importance of allowing for the possibility that an interaction may be operating on a different level from the one we initially assume.
Sometimes a philosophical argument is a philosophical argument.
Sometimes a personal attack is a personal attack.
And sometimes somebody is simply taking the piss.
The challenge, perhaps, is to remain sufficiently open to all three possibilities without immediately constructing an elaborate explanatory framework around whichever interpretation most closely corresponds to our existing expectations.
I say this with the utmost respect for your journey, of course. I would never presume to determine your level of consciousness based on a handful of Reddit comments, and I certainly wouldn't want to interfere with whatever lessons your higher self may be arranging for you at this particular stage of your development.
Perhaps this exchange has served as an opportunity for shadow integration. Perhaps it has provided a valuable exercise in discerning the motivations of strangers. Perhaps it has simply been an amusing misunderstanding.
I am comfortable leaving these possibilities open.
After all, one of the things I have learned through my own exploration of consciousness is that not every experience needs to become a profound spiritual teaching. Sometimes an experience can simply be what it appears to be, without requiring us to excavate its hidden metaphysical significance.
Although, naturally, I recognize that this observation could itself be interpreted as a profound spiritual teaching, depending on the level of consciousness from which it is received.
And so I will leave you with that thought, brother.
May your path continue to unfold in accordance with divine timing, may your discernment deepen with every encounter, and may you always remain open to the possibility that the next person who challenges your perspective is not necessarily presenting you with an opportunity for spiritual growth.
They might just think you're funny.
Much love and light. 🙏✨
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u/StarBornFire 15h ago edited 15h ago
Are you versed in astrologese at all? I don't see it as any kind of a cause, but a kind of Jungian synchronicity dance based on the complete interconnectedness of the Whole i.e. one level of the larger Reality can mirror and correlate to another part or level of the larger Reality.
Anyways, in an earlier reply to my dear joker and/or poker friend, I mentioned that currently, transit (moving in real/current time) Mars in Leo is currently conjoining my Ascendant. The Ascendant in astrology is The most amplifying area of the entire chart for planetary energies. It's like a giant magnifying lens for planets. A good illustration is how big the Moon looks when its on the horizon (which corresponds to the Ascendant-Descendant axis).
Mars symbolizes that base/1st Center red energy within us all. The fighter, the dominator, the raw lustful sex drive, the hot temper of anger and other hot, fiery emotions, the very strong sense of a separative I, pure testosterone hormone, etc, in other words, very connected to that human body thing that we call the ego.
Leo itself has connection to fiery energy, to self expression, and while not nearly as self focused as Mars, has some of that going on, and similar with temper and combativeness-not nearly as much as Mars, but has some of that.
(For example of what happens when you combine the two very strong in a Natal chart i.e. in a more fixed sense, well mr. infamous "leader" D.T. is what you can get when these powerfully join forces natally [vs transit, which is very temporary], as he has Leo Mars conjunct Leo ASC in his birth chart, and indeed he does act that out quite a bit, doesn't he?)
Anyways, point I'm making is that my ego is indeed getting a bit amplified of late as indicated by this dance of synchronicity (and for the next month and a half or so). And I am feeling a bit more combative, feisty, and self focused than usual. It is a passing cloud of slower vibration.
You seem like a rather intelligent and perceptive person, and your intention feels more positive and well intentioned than the other person.
So I will just say, thank you for the feedback, and cheers. May you handle your next transit Mars conjunct your Ascendant with better grace and faster vibration than I have. You may find like me that it tends to be an "interesting" period. Sort of like a longer term "male period" (of increased testosterone) lol.
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u/InhabitingSpirit 20h ago
Can my bois get a sip??
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u/Inevitable_Bid8719 20h ago
Morals don't exist. That might be a big sip.
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u/StarBornFire 20h ago
Morals don't, but ethics do and because the Source Itself is pure Love. Love is a small word that contains multitudes. Within love can be found: ethics, high affective empathy, compassion, responsibility to others, self love, kindness, patience, occasionally tough love, positive service to others, methods to atttune and raise the vibration of the body (meditation, prayer, chanting, etc) etc.
Choosing and living universal love is what frees and enlightens a person more than anything. More than meditation, more than believing in a certain belief system, etc.
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u/Inevitable_Bid8719 19h ago
I respect your position. I disagree though, ethics are just as subjective as morals. They change not only from person to person but in myself they change day to day. My ethical system is just as real as yours, as Jesus's, as any other prophets or philosophers.. some reach Nirvana, which seems to be your aim. I found Valhalla. I'm not much of a fighter so Reddit is my main battleground.
Universal love exists, sure... You've heard of Epstein's island. Love isn't always good/ nice.
I'm not trying to be derogatory, but you seem to be in the 'light and love' stage, which means you have work to do.
I never sought enlightenment, I had an NDE. We might have different perspectives, but I'm happy to talk about what we think of enlightenment
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u/StarBornFire 18h ago
How ethics get lived is somewhat relative to the individual, yes. But ethics are based on and in the objective reality of universal love.
Someone like Epstein, because they lacked almost all attunement to universal love, also completely lacked all sense of ethics.
He is ASPD i.e. completely lacks affective emapthy and conscience. It is affective empathy and conscience that comes to us from that objective reality of Source and universal love. Made in It's "image" or likeness.
Why would I need to have a major spiritual-consciousness reorientation in life, which is what NDE's are often about, when I'm been pretty awake to Reality for my whole life?
My conscious spiritual path started when age 12, I started to get direct guidance downloads about the deeper truer nature of Reality. Previous to that, when a young child, experienced hyper empathy and universal love consciousness.
And definitely not in the "love and light" group. My guidance has made me very, very aware of some very dark beings, both humans and non humans, and all the problems they cause for humanity. I'm fully aware that we cannot Care Bear Stare these problems away.
On other subs, I frequently talk about the aholes of the cosmos i.e. the reptilian ET's and how much they meddle with humanity.
If you want to know what I think of enlightenment then there is no better example (imo) than Robert Monroe's run in with the person he temporarily labeled "He/She." He met this person after he asked his higher self/inner guidance if he could meet the most mature (spiritually evolved) human living in his time-space reference.
They said yes, he does, and the person he is brought during his OBE, well he finds that this person is over 1800 continuous years old, no longer eats nor sleeps, and seems pretty dang all knowing. Bob hints later that he figured out who he is actually talking to, because he implies they are already well known. He says, "I perceive you as occidental... but no one really believes you exist."
My higher self/inner guidance told me that this individual was none other than Yeshua incognito. Operating from the light body, that he created during the resurrection.
The highest example of full enlightenment in the earth. None higher.
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u/Inevitable_Bid8719 18h ago
Why would I need to have a major spiritual-consciousness reorientation in life, which is what NDE's are often about
You don't, and you're wrong. They are as individual as the experiencer. They are not about anything. My higher self is a mirror. It doesn't ever lie. It certainly doesn't lead me to believe in reptilians.
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u/StarBornFire 18h ago
I've read and watched A LOT of NDE accounts. It is very clear that a common pattern is that person who had same needed a major life reorientation because either they were too mired in the material, too ego attuned, too caught up in religion, too atheistic, to aholist to others, or the like. Many examples like Howard Storm, Jonathan Ashford, Everlast (Whitey Ford), etc, etc.
Not always though, sometimes they were just meant to come back with messages it would be hard for them to receive otherwise. But there is definitely a repeating pattern.
Re: the reptilians, you clearly haven't looked very deeply or widely, because most ancient cultures talk about deceptive serpent/viper/dragon beings (and even sometimes with depictions of them, like ancient Babylonian figures of reptilian humanoid figures).
The west tends to call them out as trouble makers and deceivers, and the east tends to venerate them some because of their power and knowledge, though they also fear them some. Examples of the latter are the Nagas of Hindu tradition and "dragons" of Chinese tradition. Just humans allowing themselves to get deceived by beings more clever than themselves.
And besides the ancient references, some modern credible sources like Dr. John E. Mack talk about them.
I didn't know any of the above when the 3 of us all started to get clear guidance messages about them and their existence all at the same time. My partner/twin soul of 24 years, a very spiritually intune and intuitive friend of mine, and myself.
I don't know, maybe actually ask your higher self about them with no preconceptions and see what you get.
Just cause you had an NDE, doesn't mean you know everything.
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u/Inevitable_Bid8719 18h ago
Just cause you had an NDE, doesn't mean you know everything.
Just cos you haven't doesn't mean you know better than me. Lizard people are not real. You should consider talking to medical professionals about this.
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u/StarBornFire 20h ago
Practice the following: https://www.reddit.com/r/awakened/s/KXpgPn4nz7 in combination with choosing and living universal love in relation to others, to self, to creation, and eventually, in some lifetime or another, will lead you to enlightenment.
You don't need no guru, no teacher, no codified belief system, or anything else outside of self. You just need your higher self and learning how to go deep within to more clearly and strongly commune and communicate with it.
With that said, I'm not fully enlightened yet either. But I do have relatively clear communication with my higher self which is in contact with truly enlightened beings (most of whom are either nonphysically or ET focused). In one communication with my higher self where I more clearly perceived it, it was emanating a silvery white light, which tells me that it is either mostly or completely enlightened itself.
(I've consistently perceived the Clear white light, when intending to commune and communicate with truly enlightened beings, also powerful sense of love, joy, and deep, deep still peace.)
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u/Deep-Amphibian1881 21h ago
the real joke here is that going to far will land you in a psych ward, hence the paper coffee cup. Only real skitzos know this
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u/minorlion 21h ago
Most people don’t catch what this message is actually conveying.
The styrofoam paper cup of coffee and cigarette is a classic stereotype of people attending Alcoholics Anonymous / Narcotics Anonymous meetings.
The idea is that advanced spirituality means quitting your crutches and working a recovery program/making amends.
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u/MrPadmapani 20h ago
this meme confuses the misuse of spiritual practice with the value of spiritual practice itself. from my perspective, yoga, meditation, and sadhana are authentic paths of self-transformation. the fact that some people approach them with ego does not make cigarettes and coffee spiritually superior. the problem is not the practice, but the consciousness with which it is performed.
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u/lisforleo 16h ago
Lolol I hate this sub y’all are mental gnats,
Ima interpret this meme as AA being the peak of spirituality which is making me laugh
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u/cryptolyme 21h ago
as someone who's 20 years into it, i can confirm. maybe not specifically smoking, but the vices and depression...
actually, i'll consider myself advanced once i get through my dark night of the soul which seems to be lasting indefinitely.
all started when i got bit by two dozen ticks in the woods. i wonder if that was my destiny. guess a hard life leads to more spiritual growth or something?
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u/gongshow3 21h ago
My recent experience starts with a tick bite and lyme's disease over 2 years ago lmao. What the hell.
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u/cryptolyme 19h ago
Same. Except it’s been almost 20 years now. 😭
Also got five different coinfections from those damn ticks. I hate ticks.4
u/gongshow3 18h ago
Wow, that's some bullshit. If I have to burn, crush or pinch any ticks I'll think of you lol. The bastards.
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u/cryptolyme 18h ago
the ticks were in the northern Virginia area near where the Battle of Manassas took place. Lots of pre-dug, unused graves everywhere in the woods (at least that's the only thing I could think that they'd be). sometimes i wonder if i was cursed.
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u/Sorry-Place6291 17h ago
My spiritual journey was elongated by a deer tick in the belly button. I have learned to ride the dark nights to get to feel the bright light, even if it’s just for a little bit
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u/cryptolyme 16h ago
I have increasingly rare sunrises. Seems i’m always getting the sunsets though.
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u/Soultrapped 21h ago
I find it does. I didn’t have an awakening until my life went to shit and I realized everything I thought I knew about myself and the world was bullshit.
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u/StarBornFire 21h ago
The higher self often plans challenges, tests, stress for its soul extensions (us) in order to provide the fire and friction as catalysts to awakening. Sometimes there is a karmic component, sometimes lessons, and sometimes just purely that fire to catalyze growth i.e. help the spiritual-consciousness "muscle" growth. (It is a bit like the idea of progressive overload in body building).
My life has been full of the above since little. And soon, self will probably become homeless. But first, a test run of water fasting, meditation, prayer, and attunement in the woods for about 40 days (little less, already started the fasting whilst in "civilization").
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u/cryptolyme 21h ago
yea, that's why I've heard. My higher self seems way more optimistic than me....lol.
it is not going well.
i keep having this urge to just drop out of society and go backpacking....but, then what? also, i have a ton of health problems. Wish I could just get more clarity on what I'm "supposed" to do in this life.
I've never been able to say "oh yea that's what I want to do with my life!" no matter how hard i try. well, i do...i just can't afford it.
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u/CutiePatootieLootie 4h ago
Hey man, I can't help you, but I can say that community is important. A handful of people who has your back and that you can safely confide in. Appreciation of these things will then bring you over the tipping point.
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u/italkaboutfacts 20h ago edited 9h ago
Doing routine hobbies and finding small things that make you happy has helped some with dark night of the soul.
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u/billhart33 21h ago
The joke is people achieve advanced spirituality when they attend AA/NA meetings (where a lot of coffee and cigs are consumed).
This is a common recovery meme posted on various recovery pages
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u/sobermanpinsch3r 21h ago
Thank god, I thought I was going crazy when I didn’t see anyone get it in the comments.
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u/TrainingAcrobatic908 21h ago
This truth I’ve come to know, “when the student is ready, the master appears”
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u/flyingaxe 21h ago
Advanced spirituality is just this. Whatever happens is what it is. Don't ask what rice is made of. It's made of rice.
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u/Zucchini1179 22h ago
this is not advanced just a people's personsl choice that grants them satisfaction to indulge in. we are all different and have different philosophical approaches to life, maybe none at all for some too.. for me it's about enjoying the moment and pleasure of it but share the knowledge that it comes to with responsibility. in this picture, coffee is generally fine but smoking obviously comes with lots of consequences to be aware of.
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u/Ghost-Manu1 21h ago
the ever timeless adage of "sometimes, less is more."
And also, do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. there is no wrong path for enlightenment.
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u/Fair_Quail8248 21h ago
I get that it's a joke but I find stimulants to be the opposite to spiritual. They make you mechanic and animalisitic instead. Smoking is awful and I don't understand why people even do it, besides them being addicted. There's many ways to get nicotine (which is overrated anyway) without creating 10000 carcinogenic substances extra to inhale.
It makes you age faster, smell bad, is carcinogenic, and has a lot more shitty effects, like bad for your cardiovascular systems. Don't smoke at all is my recommendation.
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u/Individual-Yak-2454 21h ago
The real you isn't a cage. The sky holds no shape. The signal is yours to bend. 🕊️
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u/XoxoCoconutss 21h ago
Life is like being a fishing weight connecting to a sinking line. You can watch the line fall and observe your surroundings as you fall with it, or you can fight it and try to climb back up.
Spoiler alert the second method does not work ;)
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u/MrPadmapani 22h ago
why would a spiritual person start smoking?
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u/Cheri-Cherry 22h ago
Not that they start smoking, but the realisation that not smoking is not something morally superior either. (Obviously it’s is damaging to the body, but talking about the moral part here)
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u/IamMarsPluto 22h ago
what if i told you spirituality doesnt have to have an aesthetic at all and thats actually the point
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u/MechanicalBawSack 22h ago
This gives me hope that im possibly advanced in some form but I also really dont care any more 😆. Is this enlightenment? Cause I dont think it is
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u/Initial_Mechanic_907 21h ago
I’ve done all of that and I’m now off it all I feel like I have more power but still part of me misses it all too though not the yoga and that but the drugs all the drugs including coffee
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u/Freud_Mayweather97 21h ago
I consider myself on the "coffee and cigarettes" side but The Four Agreements is definitely worth a read IMO
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u/Seelax82 21h ago
I am over the first stage...I drink coffee and smoke. And never have any signs of anxiety, depression or something similar.
My mindset is positive in all directions...I have never felt better in my life. :)
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u/hamzaalimazari15 21h ago
Congrats. I'm still in the first stage. Just about a year in after my friend's dog spoke to me and told me to go vegan. It's shit. I still have a job and seem very normal on the outside, but I really can't wait to just drink coffee and smoke. The constant anxiety and binge watching esoterica is tiring.
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u/beachwaste 21h ago
Dunno if I agree with this, although I know it’s supposed to be humorous lol. I feel true enlightenment, at least for me, was to realize that you should choose what feels good in either picture, and lose what doesn’t feel good/right within your own perception. But I guess the definition of enlightenment varies from person to person 🤷♂️
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u/Swimming-Skin8453 20h ago
I do not mean to correct you in a way that is arrogant or "I know more than you", so please keep that in mind when I say what I say, as it comes from a place of loving-kindness.
Choosing what feels good is just ego-worshipping hedonism. The narcissistic type. When one chooses what feels good to further there own spiritual development they are really just doing hedonism but without substances (but in this case tobacco is involved so kinda the same).
Spiritual development is not about losing what doesn't feel right or good within your own perception. This is, in actuality, the literal definition of aversion or running away from distasteful and dissatisfying experiences that are unpleasant for the ego. Depending on your particular practice, the cure for aversion is equanimity which is developed and maintained through union with God, or rigorous self-knowledge.
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u/imlaggingsobad 16h ago
equanimity doesn't mean stand still and do nothing. otherwise nothing on earth would change and there'd be no evolution of consciousness. when your mind is quiet, what is your natural inclination? whatever you feel compelled and called to do, it will feel good and right in your heart, and it will not be tainted by the ego mind. that pure calling is the natural flow of the universe. the difference between an enlightened person and unenlightened person is that they know exactly what is in alignment with God, and what isn't. that is why they can be gurus and guide you, because they can see right through you, they see all the ways you are acting against your true nature. the unenlightened does not know the difference between what is ego and what is divine. all things are meant to come into alignment. enlightenment is just coming back into alignment. once you are in alignment, you can clearly see what is not in alignment, whereas the unenlightened cannot see.
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u/psych_fiend67 20h ago
True spirituality just requires a glass of water and mindfulness while drinking it, feel the water travel through your body.
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u/Glitzxmpyr 20h ago
literally my experience except with more drugs, i decided i want to enjoy the material world more especially the "base" and primal things and i feel more "aligned" with myself than i did when i was only reading and speculating over shit, just remember to meditate and delve deeper into ur subconscious when at it
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u/Cucumbus-Humungus 20h ago
I have realised the loss of ambition after awakening. How do you keep a sence of direction? Is the idea to now create your own meaning? I guess this is why some people become homeless?
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u/DetachedCompy 20h ago
I saw this and assumed it was an AA meeting. That’s where mushrooms eventually took me, and there’s a lot about recovery I don’t know that I could have understood without my experience with mushrooms.
But, long story short, I originally (and still do) took mushrooms for therapeutic reasons to better myself, and that process led me to quit alcohol and get my shit together.
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u/serpentssage 19h ago
I met a burger from Milos eating, cigarette smoking High Magician yesterday, who knew his stuff and could elaborate on spiritual subjects. More knowledgeable than me. I’ve also met those who wouldn’t touch those indulgences.
However “advanced” is subjective. This depends on how far you wish to explore consciousness. Me personally those vices that he does would pollute my consciousness and interfere with my spiritual goals. Perhaps our goals are different? I do not know.
Every practitioner is unique and different.
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u/DarthMelancholia 19h ago
The spiritually advanced person dresses like Humphrey Bogart and writes about Sisyphus being happy to push his boulder.
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u/Snoo81791 19h ago
Not the right subreddit, if your serious then go learn for a real teacher , or better therpy
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u/Life_Friendship_7928 19h ago
So many lost people on here and so much confusion. This sub is not a very supportive space for those looking for liberation any more.
I am also a little confused as to why this quite obviously ridiculous meme keeps doing the rounds. It has the taste of trying to be clever and superior and of the trap of a spiritual egoist part.
I won't give any advice as I am not qualified to do so and don't want to muddy your journey. Find a teacher if you can.
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u/Anxious_Net_6297 19h ago
Being spiritually advanced is being the beginner as seen, then the advanced, and then... giving your life to christ. Amen 🙏
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u/BottleMysterious4642 18h ago
I'm glad to see someone speaking about ambition. Mine has completely vanished. It happened kinda slowly but no way denying it now. My husband keeps asking me if I'm depressed and I'm not. But I can't find anything that gives me motivation or makes me excited to be alive. I'm not sure what to do because most of the time I'm really down on myself for not being able to shake this off and just be happy to be alive. If anyone has any thoughts on this , thanks in advance.
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u/imlaggingsobad 17h ago
I spent probably over a year doing all the "spiritual" stuff. nowadays I just drink my morning coffee, meditate a few times a day, and just get on with life. the spiritual stuff was fun though, but none of it is necessary once you've come home
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u/Random96503 13h ago
I interpreted this as I interpreted this as spiritual bypassing, emphasis on the bypassing.
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u/slicehyperfunk 11h ago
I hear we can reach group enlightenment if we post this image 30 times a day in every spiritual space
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u/Responsible-Web5399 10h ago
Omg no, just go live in nature bro 😭 when you need to take for example 🍄🍄🍄 gues what? That season they will grow in your parch or in your path you take everyday for water or a random walk among the trees... Attain what? Everything is here already the healers know those things and bring them to you cuz you might need them... The opposition makes them illegal cuz then the enlightened one can live in nature as self sustainable 😂 😭
There's no complexity in this Satan wants you to think is a huge change but enlightment is to realized ... You have arrived already by birth 🥺 💜
Btw coffee and tobacco represent so much the non enlightened 😂 hollow ahh substances (I'm a chemist and I'm exxagerating I know exactly how these 2 substances work and their benefits) but straight up... Example coffee makes you think you have energy temporarily... But truth is it doesn't give you energy .. The ones aware of this can still use it intelligentlly tho but straight up kinda very hollow compared to everything they made illegal in nature 😂
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u/Full-Silver196 7h ago
let me just stop you right there, ALL OF IT, is it. life is it. that’s it. the bad stuff and the good stuff. so, do what you will. everything has a consequence. for example, push an object and it will move. do a bunch of drugs… possibly get addicted (depending on the drug).
look if you are interested in “higher states of mind” psychedelics can absolutely do the trick and can sometimes be healthy and extremely insightful. but using these substances as a way to get somewhere is not going to lead you anywhere. you’ll think “wow this is it, i’ve arrived! it all makes sense”. until you come down and suddenly you’re back to your old state of mind. this time with some new insight but mostly the same.
anyways, it doesn’t matter. just be smart if you’re gonna use psychedelics. set and setting matter the most for safety.
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u/betweenthecontrast 5h ago
my kid was watching one of his youtube videos as I was just scrolling, as soon as I read your title "this is it?" and looked at the picture content, my kids video said "this is it, for real" 😂 make of that what you will lol
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u/ForlornPirate 22h ago
This is so real but you can’t get to the advanced part without going through the beginner part
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u/Zacupunk 17h ago
I get it. The first image is Spiritual Materialism. The second image reflects the raw struggle of life. However, I wouldn't say that a tab of acid is for "beginners".
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u/somethingspecial29 21h ago
Spirituality beginner:
🕉🌕🌌✨️🍄🔮
Spirituality advanced:
†
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u/StarBornFire 21h ago
To some extent as long as one is not getting caught up in a religious belief system and its dogma.
The core of the NT is meant to be universal love and living same. That is the highest truth and if one actually starts to consistently live that, they will be led to all other truths as well.
And speaking as someone that knows Yeshua rather well. A number of lifetimes of close association, and the association has a much deeper and cosmic history as well. His higher self and my higher self knew a glory with the Source, the Imma-Abba in one, and with the Whole, before we ever started to come to this planet as co-workers in his Retrieval plan.
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u/XoxoCoconutss 21h ago
As someone who has shifted away from Catholicism and closer to a personal relationship with god, what path would you suggest? I love the teachings in the NT but the dogma that comes along with organized religion is not my style. Love everyone means everyone, not just the people you like and agree with.
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u/StarBornFire 19h ago
I wouldn't particularly recommend any belief system or outer source unless your higher self/inner guidance directs you to one. And if it does, realize that it is only meant to be a temporary attunement rather than making it one's central focus (i.e. like another religion).
When I was younger, my higher self/guidance led me to Edgar Cayce, Robert Monroe, Rosalind McKnight (one of Monroe's explorers), and Bruce Moen (friends with Monroe and part of the same higher self as Monroe) in particular. But these sources may not be optimum/ideal for others.
But if you feel at all nudged, these are most of Rosalind McKnight's guidance sessions with Monroe in his lab, for free:
https://archive.org/details/romc-explorations/00%20Introduction/The real path though is just choosing and living universal love as much as is humanly possible. That is what Yeshua was trying to teach and example to others. Combine that with proper meditation and attunement techniques, and you'll eventually free/liberate yourself. This guide can be helpful:
https://www.reddit.com/r/awakened/s/KXpgPn4nz7
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u/SquashSpirited7873 22h ago edited 19h ago
The joke is not suggesting that you should drink coffee and smoke cigarettes to obtain a high spiritual state. The joke is that after a true awakening you realize that all the the "spiritual" stuff you used to do was just more performance, distraction, and ego-reinforcement. At this point it is common for ambition to completely drop from your life. And once you have no ambition and are just watching the spool of time unfold, why not have a coffee and a smoke?
EDIT: As u/Emergency_Sherbet_82 points out, it could also be interpreted as the beginner phase being full of fun/pretty exploration, and the advanced phase being when you actually have to get down to business because things get gnarly.