r/europe • u/razdvatri4 • 17h ago

News Zelenskyy warns 20M Ukrainians could flee to Europe if Russia wins war.

https://www.politico.eu/article/zelenskyy-warns-20m-ukrainians-could-flee-to-europe-if-russia-wins-war
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u/lucrac200 16h ago

Ukrainians integrate rather easy and create less issues than other non-european immigrants, in general.

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u/Dh0ine 15h ago

It doesn't matter what kind of people would immigrate into EU if the total figure would be 20 million, it's a catastrophic for any country in Europe.

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u/lucrac200 14h ago

No, it would be just hard. Not to mention that those 20 mil will not all stop in 1 country. What would be catastrophic would be Ukraine's defeat and absortion (formally or not) by Russia.

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u/CreamXpert 13h ago

I can tell you we don't have the means to absorb even a fraction of the 20 millions no matter of easy they can integrate. The local population is struggling themselves.

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u/lucrac200 13h ago

And I can tell you that we're getting old all over EU, our populations are shrinking and for sure we could use 20 mil adaptable, willing to work people and with zero investment in their education.

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u/Chowder110 13h ago

Ukranians becomes the dominant people in Europe then in 50 years gathers the great Ukraine offensive to take back Ukraine 190 million crosses the border russia is defeated the good ending

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u/lucrac200 13h ago

Bit of a long shot :))

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u/Suppositorizz 1h ago

Do you even have an idea of what you're talking about? You think importing more people is magically going to fix the aging population issue?

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u/DispassionateObs 13h ago

There are still many people who oppose it for economic reasons. It puts pressure on housing and healthcare.

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u/lucrac200 13h ago

Unless we are willing to push the Ukrainians back to death or kill them ourselves, we might not have a choice. How do you stop 20 mil people at the border?

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u/Suppositorizz 50m ago

Why would that be so bad? Why would you let more people in when you can't even take care of your own citizens? That weak mentality is why Europe is in such a poor shape.

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u/Weshtonio 16h ago

Don't bring rationality in the conversation, it's called scare tactics for a reason. It applies at a different level.

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u/le_quisto Portugal 15h ago

Well these guys actually have the right skin colour, so they're fine.

This is a satirical comment, but probably a lot of people think like this, unfortunately

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u/lucrac200 14h ago

Nothing about the skin collor. They just come from a country culturally much closer to the european way of life from many points of view: culture, weather, history, work ethics, traditions, relations, religion, etc. And if you think there are no differences between any random Asian or African countries and Ukraine from those perspectives... i guess you did not travel much.

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u/VladThe1mplyer Romania 14h ago

You say that but a lot of people are buthurt that the Ukrainian refugees who afforded to leave the country at the start of the war are richer than them.

You can still keep hearing those people being jealous that the Ukrainian refugees who fled to Europe had better cars than they did.

Those people don't care how well integrated Ukrainians are and are just looking for excuses to complain.

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u/Available_Tank_8950 5h ago

Im pretty sure the thing about the luxury cars was an initial russian propaganda ragebait that spread like wildfire bcz I heard it from at least 3-4 people including my dad. To which I said: if Russia invades, which car do you flee in? Your Peugeot 307 held together by rust or the new BMW suv?

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u/VladThe1mplyer Romania 5h ago

I would not be surprised if this was a Russian psyop but the problem is that are enough ghouls who are petty enough to agree with that propaganda for it to stick.

I am deeply disappointed in my countrymen who fall for such talking points.

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u/Available_Tank_8950 5h ago

Capra vecinului amirite

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u/lucrac200 14h ago

Who knew richer people have more resources and can relocate faster & easier than poor people, am I right? :))

Of course a good no of those who managed to exit Ukraine have some good money. In a country of tens of millions, you can find plenty rich ones.

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u/shokkwave 8h ago

I mean, driving a better car doesn't mean anything. I know a billionaire(1000 x millions) who drives a 20-year-old Mercedes S-Class as his personal car. Do you think people like that care about what they drive?

Extremely rich people don't need to show off their wealth, and most new cars are leased or financed anyway. Some people even put everything they have into a financed car just to look rich. Nobody with common sense actually cares what car you drive.

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u/00gauge 6h ago

You completely missed the point. The type of ukrainians who drive better cars are not billionaires, but rather small to medium business owners with 50-100k+ of annual disposable income. By most measures they were living better lives than most of their West European counterparts before the war started. These are very smart and highly entrepreneurial people, the kind you mostly would want in your country. The wave that follows them might be a very different breed.

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u/Talkycoder United Kingdom 14h ago

Try telling that to Poland

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u/lucrac200 14h ago

Every country has its retards, Poland is not excluded.

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u/Talkycoder United Kingdom 14h ago

I'm not denying that, it's just the Polish government is currently ran by a right wing religious group that blames all their problems on Ukrainian refugees.

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u/cccub 12h ago

You’ve got something mixed up here.

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u/redyellow2 11h ago

He didn't get updates since the last elections a couple of years ago

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u/Raven1927 5h ago edited 3h ago

You say that and meanwhile in reality there are integration issues and it's causing tensions already. The authorities in Denmark recently warned about how Ukrainian refugees have a problem with neo-nazi ideology and right wing extremism. Even in Poland it's causing a lot of tensions and in some cases it has escalated into violence already.

https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/myndigheder-advarer-om-hoejreekstrem-tendens-blandt-unge-ukrainske-flygtninge

Even if they are on average better than migrants from africa or middle east, if millions more come in and they keep these tendencies and attitudes, it'll cause major problems in the future. Europe isn't some homogenous blob, where everyone has the same culture or world view.

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u/ZombieCrow 13h ago

When the war began, i used to work at a hotel in Bulgaria. Many Ukrainians came to our hotel for free, food included. I remember how one of the guests complained about how her pool towel isn't warm and why don't we have a tool to warm them up. Then she went to the manager and started shouting, kicking the flower pots and other items we had in the lobby. The manager was not allowed to kick her family out because it would have been a sign of aggression.One of our guests was Russian and he had the Russian flag sticker on his car, the Ukrainians broke his car because of that. So no, they dont create less issues. I had a lot more encounters like those in the last few years.

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u/lucrac200 13h ago

Like I said, all countries have their retards and assholes. Like you said, ONE of the Ukrainians made a scene. Make him pay. Not all the others.

About your Ru guest flying a Ru flag mid Ru invasion: something suggests me he's not a huge Russian disident, and probably not the sharpest pen. I can understand why people traumatized by invasion, seeing the flag of the killer, have bit of a hardfeelings towards it.

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u/ZombieCrow 12h ago

It's not only those 2 cases, there are many more, i know each country has its bad apples and thats normal, whats not normal is that when someone is in another country and the people from that country try to help you out, but you decide to break stuff because you feel you're above everyone else. Also having a flag on your car doesn't give permission for others to break it. The owner of the car sued them and ofc won because we have cameras. I've nothing against the refugees, but when people give you a hand, dont spit on it. My point is, yes they create as many issues as non eu immigrants.

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u/lucrac200 12h ago

I agree with you on no spitting on a helping hand, disagree on creating as many issues as non-eu immigrants. At least where I live, that statement is incorrect. But also Bulgaria has a significantly smaller no of non-eu reffugees, so I can see why could be different in your country.

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u/ZombieCrow 12h ago

Yes, we definitely have a lot more Ukrainian refugees than non eu ones, i guess people are people and you see more of the bad side depending on how many people are there.

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u/lucrac200 12h ago

Agree with you. Sadly, the tolerance for the bad apples is a bit too high everywhere in EU.

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u/GoldenMirado 15h ago

Of course they do but not because they are ukrainians. The know very well that if they mess up they'll be send back home. Fear keeps them in line.

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u/Chromber Austria 15h ago

Just shut up dude.

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u/playernumerodos 7h ago

No they do not, they bring racism and bigotry with them

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u/lucrac200 7h ago

As far as i can see where i live that is not the case. unless by "racist" you mean "anti-russian".

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u/Better-Cry1588 5h ago

Uh... no?

Literally work with Ukrainian immigrants every day. They don't speak English, and expect YOU to speak Russian.