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u/Objective_Look_5867 May 07 '26
An angel wizard who wasnt allowed to directly interfere too much so instead of being a wizard and spamming his magic powers he picked up a sword and decided to try out being a fighter
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u/HoodooSquad Just and Loyal May 07 '26
That’s all the wizards in LOTR, though
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u/Constant-Ad-7189 May 07 '26
It is the case for the 5 chromatic wizards, but it is evident from the text that plenty of non- "wizards" use magic.
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u/Relevant-Ad-6887 May 07 '26
"5 Chromatic Wizards." Buddy, it isn't DnD. The term wizard is synonymous in LOTR with The Istari, all of whom are maiar. All other uses of magic are extremely vague, especially once you get outside the elves. Humans can't use magic at all.
"Anyway, a difference in the use of ‘magic’ in this story is that it is not to be come by by ‘lore’ or spells; but is in an inherent power not possessed or attainable by Men as such. Aragorn’s ‘healing’ might be regarded as ‘magical’, or at least a blend of magic with pharmacy and ‘hypnotic’ processes. But it is (in theory) reported by hobbits who have very little notions of philosophy and science; while A. is not a pure ‘Man’, but at long remove one of the ‘children of Lúthien’."
Tolkien, J. R. R.. The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien (p. 200). HarperCollins Publishers. Kindle Edition.
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u/ikelosintransitive May 07 '26
i love the way lotr treats magic. it is really powerful and rare, used only by supernatural beings, and quite literally miraculous.
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u/FreeBricks4Nazis May 07 '26
And also that time Gandalf shoots fireballs at wolves
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u/Protahgonist May 07 '26
In the book, he lights pinecones on fire and throws them lol.
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u/Intelligent_Sky_7081 May 07 '26
thats what i remember in the hobbit movies, as bad as they were, i dont remember him shooting fireballs. they were lighting pinecones and throwing them.
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u/Alruco May 07 '26
I highly recommend this essay by Bret Devareaux on how Tolkien's magic system works (which, after twenty years of reading fantasy, still seems to me to be the best magic system I have ever read).
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u/elkoubi May 07 '26 edited May 08 '26
Humans can't use magic at all.
Hoom. Hom. Let's not be too hasty.
- The men or Arnor wove spells into the barrow blades, which is what allowed Merry to wound the Witch King.
- Speaking of, the Witch King was himself a sorcerer before he was given a ring and eventually became a wraith.
- Isuldur's curse on the Men of Dunharrow (and their own oath) is what bound them to linger as spirits in Middle Earth instead of moving on to wherever the souls of men go outside of Arda upon their death.
- Edit: Someone else mentioned Beorn being able to change into a bear. If that isn't magic, I don't know what is.
There's lots of magic going on in LotR, and it isn't monopolized by Elves or the Ainur. Dwarves used it too to make things like the Doors of Durin and the secret entrance to Erebor. They also crafted the Dragon-Helm of Dor-Lomin, which has magic spells of protection upon it.
And not all men of Numenor are going to be direct descendents of Elves or Maia if that's what we're going to say the Witch King is or anything like that.
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u/DotAdministrative211 Ravenclaw May 07 '26
I mean they’re all just spamming Fireball, so they’re more or less the same. /s
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u/HesitantTheorist May 07 '26
Well, kind of, keep in mind, letter 155 was unsent, and made note of how Númenóreans apparently used spells, it is rather possible he was undecided or there were further nuances to it.
"But the Númenóreans used "spells" in making swords”
He talks about them practicing necromancy in letter 131
"The Númenóreans carry their evil also to Middle-earth and there become cruel and wicked lords of necromancy,"
And other figures, like the Mouth of Sauron being a Sorcerer (A Black Númenórean). The nine all gained powerful sorcery while wielding the rings and clearly gaind their own powers upon becoming wraiths. so one can argue that some means for humans to gain supernatural abilities exist. but it might be an entirely different supernatural force from what Ainur or Elves use.
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u/PleaseBeChillOnline May 07 '26
It is the case for the 5 chromatic wizards
There are no Wizards of Thay in LOTR wrong franchise buddy.
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u/Zanadar May 07 '26
Tolkien's universe doesn't really have magic per say. Beings with very powerful souls (Fea) can alter the material (Hroa) by exerting their will. That's the majority of the "magic" in his world. There's some nuance, like imbuing some of the power of one's soul into items, which is that the Rings or Palantirs are or why gold is cursed, but it's still the same thing applied differently.
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u/pinkfootthegoose May 07 '26
In the Harry Potter universe wizards do magic in a framework of rules. In TLOTR universe wizards change the framework.
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u/Square_Confection_58 May 07 '26
Gandalf would have never put on that ring. Just sayin
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u/dockdockgoos May 07 '26
Yeah, Gandalf wins at basic ring safety.
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u/Loose_Stranger_7614 May 07 '26
Don’t tempt me Frodo!
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u/McFuzzen May 07 '26
Meanwhile, Dumbledore in the corner popping on the ring and holding it up to the light.
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u/OzrowO May 07 '26
Not trying to be a nerd here but wasn't there a point when Frodo was trying to give Gandalf the ring in the beginning "here Galdalf you must take it" and he refuses because the ring would temp him like it did Saurmon. “if the Ring were to work through me, it would wield a weapon too great and terrible to imagine?”
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u/Bartimaeus5 May 07 '26
Yep, which is basically proven their point. He had the ring offered to him freely and refused. Galadriel had the same happen to her but in the books after her episode about a dark queen she weeps with joy because she felt like she passed the test - the ring was offered to her and she refused it. Thus proving she can resist it enough to not fall into its evil, unlike Boromir.
Refusing the ring freely given is the second most impressive feat, other than willingly giving it away(As only Sam and Bilbo did, although Bilbo was heavily pressured to do so.)
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u/CancerRaccoon May 07 '26
Boromir managed to resist.
He is the most relatable character by far. A character that is truly a human being.
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u/Bartimaeus5 May 08 '26
He is by far my favorite his death scene is possibly the favorites scene of any movie that I ever saw
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u/RightC May 07 '26
What about if you had some fucking sick boots and and put the ring on, and it did nothing?
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u/IzarkKiaTarj May 07 '26
I think that only works with yellow boots, and you also have to wear a bright blue jacket.
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u/Specific-Swim-4507 May 07 '26
I mean that’d be a bad thing if Dumbledore hadn’t put the ring on. Then Snapes cover would have been blown and they might not be gotten the idea to have him kill dumbledore
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u/Jan090501 May 07 '26
Whoever says Dumbledore would win is delusional
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u/WilderMindz0102 May 07 '26
I firmly believe that even Dumbledore would admit this.
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u/GT_Troll Slytherin May 07 '26
I can totally imagine the dialogue
“-Do you think you can beat Gandalf, professor? -asked Harry.
Dumbledores laughed.
-I am just a human, Harry-he responded calmly.”
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u/physical0 May 07 '26
Movie version:
Dumbledore grabs Harry by the shoulder, shakes him vigorously and shouts "I'm just a human Harry!" then falls back into his chair weeping.
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u/Waste_Match1621 May 07 '26
HARRYDIDJAPUTCHERNAMEINTHEGOLBELTOFFIAR?!?!
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u/nifty-necromancer May 07 '26
IAMASERVANTOFTHESECRETFIREWIELDEROFTHEFLAMEOFARNORTHEDARKFIREWILLNOTAVAILYOUFLAMEOFUDUN, Gandalf…actually did say calmly.
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u/Writerhowell May 07 '26
I love how our fandom can always be relied on to make fun of this moment from the film.
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u/valvilis May 08 '26
"oh no, I most certainly would not, Harry. No more than the fly should hope to best the spider. There is a natural order to these things," he ejaculated.
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u/braxtel May 07 '26
Different characters but exact same archetype. What would they even fight about?
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u/Wanallo221 May 07 '26
“Who would win in a fight? Your short arsed little follower… Harry is it? Yeah. Him, or my little short arsed follower, Frodo”.
“Hard to say” Dumbledore chuckled, his eyes glinting, “If my short arsed fellow gets into a scrap. His simpler, but pluckier shaggy haired friend will get stuck in too”.
“Ohh” Gandalf muttered, a flicker of mischief in his eyes, “Funny you should say that…”
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u/braxtel May 07 '26
You mean the shaggy-haired wise-fool loyal assistant/squire of a thousand faces?
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u/Lord_Borgimus May 07 '26
For some reason I kept imagining more and more characters piling into this battle and then Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny started playing in my head.
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u/MobiusF117 May 07 '26
Not exactly the same.
Gandalf would definitely have smacked Harry on the head with his staff and called him a fool at least half a dozen times.And Dumbledore would have made an elaborate plan to have Pippin look into the Palantir on purpose, then not tell Pippin it was on purpose and praise his curiosity.
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u/strigonian May 07 '26
The closest thing I can imagine is Gandalf objecting to the way Dumbledore basically raised Harry to die so that Voldemort could be defeated.
Yes, both ask perfectly average people to handle great evil they can't possibly prepare for, but Gandalf is a lot more up front, and even tells Frodo and his companions repeatedly that they don't have to do this.
Now, Dumbledore's hands are somewhat tied there, since Voldemort will explicitly seek out Harry regardless of what choices anyone makes, but there's a definite lack of information shared with Harry on pretty much all levels.
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u/WASD_click May 07 '26
Who's got the cooler sword?
"Your sword is called Foe Hammer? Funny, that implies the sword is blunt."
"Won't be funny when I pommel strike your ass!"
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u/ToothZealousideal297 May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
-“This is delightful. What did you say it was?”
-“Licorice. Here, try one of these chocolates.”
-“Oh my. I must say, if you were to press me to admit defeat in this contest in order to obtain a large supply of this, I would have to seriously consider it.”
-“Oh, do not worry. I would only resort to such tactics in extreme circumstances. As it is, I think you may need another round or two to learn chess sufficiently for a fair game. I seem to have you in check again.”
-“And how do you know that isn’t part of my plan? Playing several rounds, that is. Indeed I may have to lose many times if it means I can have my fill of this chocolate.”
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u/Sere1 Ravenclaw May 07 '26
Dumbledore on learning about Sauron making the One Ring and immediately going "oh no, not again"
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u/GladiatorDragon May 07 '26
“Last time I found a ring that prevented an evil wizard from dying, it didn’t go the way I would’ve liked. I hope you forgive me if I stay far away from this one, if possible.”
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u/AndreasDasos May 07 '26
‘Millennia old you say? I wonder if the person writing my life was inspired by that.’
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u/Islanduniverse May 07 '26
This is the real answer. If they were forced to fight, Dumbledore would lose, but unless they were forced, they would never fight each other. They would be fast friends.
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u/OneNowhere May 07 '26
Haha yeah like, Dumbledore read and admired LOTR too 😏
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u/WilderMindz0102 May 07 '26
Probably. Fuckin Dumbledore had Tolkien added to the History of Muggles Teaching material.
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u/Fun_Butterfly_420 Ravenclaw May 07 '26
One of his strengths is that he’s somewhat humble
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u/Sere1 Ravenclaw May 07 '26
I mean if anything Dumbledore would invite Gandalf over for some tea and they'd sit down for a nice relaxing discussion like gentlemen.
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u/FriedTreeSap May 07 '26
I think a lot of it is that the LotR films do a very poor job of actually explaining who Gandalf is, and what he’s capable of. He doesn’t actually use too much magic in the films. Even the books don’t necessarily get very deep into that until you start digging into the extended lore.
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u/isuredolovetitties May 08 '26
Yeah, i had no idea what Gandalf was from the films, till i was like.. 12 and read his wikipedia page, and was like, “what the fuck?”
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u/that_guy2010 Ravenclaw May 07 '26
Or has only ever watched the movies and not looked into the lore.
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u/drocernekorb Gryffindor May 07 '26
I only watched the movies, and I never for a second thought Dumbledore could beat Gandalf in a fight.
I assume we're all talking about Gandalf the Grey here because there are absolutely no arguments in favor of Dumbledore over Gandalf the White—the man came back from the dead stronger!45
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u/FreshestCremeFraiche May 07 '26
I never saw dumbledore lead a cavalry charge down a 45 degree slope now did I
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u/lulaloops Hufflepuff May 08 '26
His feats of magic in the movies are much less impressive than Dumbledore's, at least from a visual standpoint.
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u/paone00022 May 07 '26
Ya you get 100 Dumbledores and they might still lose. Gandalf is an immortal angelic being.
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u/darwin2500 May 07 '26
..or hasn't read Silmarilion.
If you don't know what a Maia is, then it's reasonable to say that, like, the Gandalf shown in the movies doesn't exhibit any powers that obviously counter avada kedavra.
Which raises interesting points about texts and the identity of fictional characters.
Superman has had a million different iterations across different media and reboots and writers, often with hugely divergent powers (from 'can leap over tall buildings' to 'can reverse time by flying around the earth faster than the speed of light')
When someone asks 'can Superman do X', are they asking whether there has ever been any version of Superman who could do X? Whether the majority of versions ever created could do it?Whether a specific version the are remembering in their head could do it? Whether the currently most popular and well known version could do it?
I think it's actually reasonable to say 'The Gandalf in the movies, which is by far the most well-known version, would lose. The Gandalf revealed in Tolkein's world-building notes would win.'
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u/J_robintheh00d May 07 '26
lol everyone here is wrong… the only thing less likely than Dumbledores victory is them EVER fighting in the first place. They’re definitely sitting down with some fat packed bowls and blowing smoke dragons.
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u/AnyLynx4178 May 07 '26
And if they ever got the thought that the other needed to be destroyed, they would send their favorite Hobbits/children to do the job instead.
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u/AverageGolfer27 May 07 '26
Now who wins in a fight, Harry with a wand or bilbo/frodo with the ring
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u/AnyLynx4178 May 07 '26
That’s a tough one, but I’m gonna say the winner would be either Hermione or Sam.
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u/sweet_rico- May 07 '26
That one I'm giving to Bilbo/Frodo again, assuming it's Harry age 10-17. Not sure a disarming spell is gonna do too well against an invisible Sting thru your chest.
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u/ObviNotAGolfer May 07 '26
Harry can also be invisible though
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u/Green-Surround9264 May 07 '26
he also has a broomstick. gonna be hard to stab someone flying 100 feet overhead blasting down Stupefys (stupefies?) at you.
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u/ZWolF69 May 07 '26
So, invisible frodo vs flying invisible harry. It would be like that metapod vs metapod fight on pokemon.
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u/Green-Surround9264 May 07 '26
harry can just Accio the ring off frodo, now he's not invisible
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u/Apollo989 May 07 '26
I don't know if that would work or not unless the Ring wants to be possessed by Harry.
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u/Green-Surround9264 May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
would it not seek a more corruptable host? i feel like early in the fight harry would start to feel very much like he would want to try the ring on. depending when this fight happens he already has a piece of dark wizard in him, and technically is the Chosen One, those are characteristics i think the Ring would choose over big feet and an insatiable appetite. though ofc accio failed on the locket (but that also wasnt really a horcrux, so he was trying to summon something that wasnt what he was calling it)
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u/Summonest May 07 '26
"Who would win?" Boring, over done, pointless.
"How awesome would their friendship be?" Amazing, novel, thought provoking, worthy of several novels and film adaptations.
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u/ashistpikachusvater Gryffindor May 07 '26
I'm a bigger fan of Harry Potter than of LotR, but there's literally no way Dumbledore wins against Gandalf. That fight wouldn't even be close
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u/Islanduniverse May 07 '26
That’s not even a question… Gandalf was basically an immortal Demi-god. Dumbledore was a powerful wizard, but he wasn’t a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor.
Come on…
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u/tehawesomedragon Hufflepuff May 07 '26
The magical people of the Harry Potter universe are relatively weak compared to those from other universes. Like Doctor Strange would decimate Harry and Voldemort easily.
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u/leonscheglov May 07 '26
Even some real world military tech would probably be enough
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u/DelirousDoc May 07 '26
Like... gun?
There are reasons the Wizarding World keeps their existence a secret from Muggles. Safety is the primary one and that decision was made before the development of modern firearms.
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u/RobertRossBoss May 07 '26
Anybody arguing against this just doesn’t know the lore. Dumbledore is human wizard, Gandalf is an immortal Maiar. It’s not even a debate.
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u/Mild_Shock May 07 '26
Literal angelic being versus some crackpot old fool performing magic tricks?
Yeah, no, Dumbledore will lose and it's not even close.
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u/PreludeToAnEpic Ravenclaw May 07 '26
But that crackpot old fool does have style!
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u/what_the_shart May 07 '26
“You were a fool to come here tonight, Gandalf. The Aurors are on their way.”
“By which time I shall be gone, and you… shall be dead.”
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u/Affectionate-Area659 Gryffindor May 07 '26
Realistically these two would never fight. I could see Dumbledore studying under Gandalf.
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u/Icy_Scene_1823 May 07 '26
I grew up on Harry Potter, but as an adult LOTR stole my heart.
I cried like a baby reading the pages when Dumbledore died. Gandalf in RotK healed that wound. He was not only a wizard, but a general, and just a straight up gangster.
Gandalf the White and Shadowfax all day everyday.
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u/Useful_Firefighter85 May 07 '26
A better question would be whether Gandalf's powers in Middle Earth were limited to the point Dumbledore would be able to beat him. Because we do see stuff like apparating which Gandalf or Saruman in their limited forms can't do, and while I doubt something like Avada Kedavra would work on them in their Maia form, it may be good enough to kill them in their wizard form.
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u/Jazzlike_File_2531 May 07 '26
Exactly, the question is "which Gandalf" are we talking about. But doing "power scaling" with LotR is a headache, both because magical powers are something more "conceptual" and because the concept of "angel" or "divine" used by the LotR fandom to place their character at the top is very subjective and unclear in the story.
Morgoth, for example, even in his decline, would be a "semi-divine" being more powerful than Sauron (who is equal in power to Olorin), but he was seriously wounded by individuals/creatures who would be far below "divine" status (including a man), showing that he probably isn't a tribute that would make someone untouchable to earthly individuals
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u/Sipikay May 07 '26
This is a more honest take. Gandalf is powerful in a more abstract sense. As the Middle-Earth-Walking human formed being he takes, he's not omnipotent or event vastly stronger than other fighters. We don't see him smiting swaths of orcs or easily handling overwhelming foe. The arrow and blade are a threat to him still.
Whereas I do see Dumbledore on the walls of Helms Deep, casting incredible spells that would decimate thousands. Perhaps all foes. Setting Fiendfyre lose, mass transfiguration.. Arrows and swords are a joke to Dumbledore. The man can apparate.
Now is Dumbledore going to alter reality in some way, no. Is he immortal? No. He is an angel? No.
They're kind of bad comparisons to begin with. Totally different types of magic, different types of wizards.
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u/darklotus_26 May 07 '26
Exactly, a titan among men vs an angel who was cast as a man. Would love to see it.
As you said, within the realm Dumbledore is probably beyond extraordinary even compared to fellow magic users while Gandalf is not. At the same time Gandalf probably understands the true nature of magic and its divinity more than any human ever could.
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u/SirJon1995 Hufflepuff May 07 '26
From most to least powerful I have:
Olorin (Gandalf's Maiar form). Dumbledore. Gandalf.
Yours is a much better question. I don't really see the original question as an accurate debate because everyone says Gandalf would win because "he can always come back". He can't unless there's some purpose to it and the Valar decide to send him back to achive that purpose.
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u/Appropriate-Bid8671 May 07 '26
Comparing the two is like comparing J.K. Rowling and J.R.R. Tolkien. There is no comparison. Dumbledore isn't even in Gandalf's league.
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u/megselepgeci May 07 '26
Not it's obvious. Whoever doesn't agree is delusional. Dumbledore is a bloke. Gandalf is a divive higher being.
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u/Xinoj314 May 08 '26
Wizards in The Lord of the Rings are not “wizards” in the Harry Potter sense.
The Istari are not a teenager club like Dumbledore’s Army. They are angel-like beings, Maiar, sent down into Arda by the Valar to oppose Sauron — and ultimately serving the design of Ilúvatar, the actual God of that universe, the creator behind the Music that shaped the world, life, and free will.
Sauron is not just “a dark wizard.” He is a fallen Maia, a servant of Morgoth, who is basically the Satan figure of Tolkien’s world in terms of rebellion, corruption, might, and ancient evil.
So comparing Gandalf and Dumbledore is a bit like comparing the sun to a blowtorch.
But there is one important catch: Gandalf is not sent to Middle-earth to conquer, dominate, or solve everything by raw magical force. The Istari are specifically limited. Their mission is to guide, inspire, counsel, and kindle hope in the hearts of Elves and Men. Gandalf is not supposed to just walk into Mordor and nuke the problem.
That limitation gives Dumbledore a fighting chance in a “spell duel” format, because Dumbledore is an absurdly skilled human wizard.
But in terms of what Gandalf actually is? No. It is not the same weight class.
Gandalf fought a Balrog — a corrupted being of the same angelic order as himself — from the depths beneath Moria to the peak of the mountain, destroyed it, died, passed beyond the world, and was sent back with a divine power upgrade.
Dumbledore is one of the greatest wizards of his world.
Gandalf is an angel in old-man cosplay, operating under rules.
Realistically, they would probably measure each other, understand each other, laugh, share pipeweed and sherbet lemons, and nobody would get hurt.
But if Gandalf were actually unleashed?
No. Dumbledore would not stand a chance.
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u/sleepyjack2 Ravenclaw May 07 '26
They're very different kinds of Wizards. But yes Gandalf is more powerful, he's not even human.
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u/Ditches-Vestiges1549 May 07 '26
I didn't even read LOTR but obviously Gandalf would win.
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u/DJ_Necrophilia May 07 '26
Ngl that needs to be rectified
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u/Fun_Butterfly_420 Ravenclaw May 07 '26
Audiobooks may help. I also suggest starting with The Hobbit
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u/CB4R Slytherin May 07 '26
Not much of a war when there is no question what the outcome would be... Even though they probably would never have a reason to fight in the first place, Dumbledore might be exceptionally gifted but Gandalf just plays in another league.
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u/Emotional_Being8594 May 07 '26
The big fire snake Dumbledore conjured was pretty sick. Gandalf could probably slam his staff into the ground and dissipate it.
How would Gandalf react to full bore Avada Kedavra though?
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u/datitanhammer May 07 '26
Gandalf and Dumbledore would never fight. They would be the best of friends.
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u/Ragnarok345 Gryffindor 13”, Elder With Phoenix Feather May 07 '26
Do people get their basis for this stuff from all the extended lore Tolkien wrote outside of the actual stories? Because I just went through the audiobooks for the main series for the first time, and am watching the movies, and it’s pretty rare Gandalf ever did much of any magic at all, and not a whole lot of it was very impressive. Most of what makes him great seems to be his wisdom, rather than his abilities. Where do people always get this stuff?
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u/KtosKto Slytherin May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
Gandalf rarely does "explicit" magic, but that's because magic in LOTR is more of a spiritual thing or based on innate skill. However, he does a few things which are closer to conventional magic as portrayed in typical fantasy, like summoning fire or using telekinesis. But by far the biggest indication of how powerful Gandalf is is his fight with the Balrog - Gandalf faces a creature of similar magical nature and their battle contains elements of a physical confrontantion, a battle of wills and a magical duel (based on how its described in The Two Towers).
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u/Apollo989 May 07 '26
This quote is from Unfinished Tales. I think considering Tolkien's full body of works is fair since it's all cannon.
"For they must be mighty, peers of Sauron, but must forgo might, and clothe themselves in flesh so as to treat on equality and win the trust of Elves and Men"
A peer of Sauron is no joking matter.
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u/Expensive_Tap7427 May 07 '26
That´s because Illúvatar (God) forbid the astari (wizards) to take their true form and power while in Middle-Earth. Morgoth, Sauron and Saruman all broke this rule and became tyrants, and that is the reason wizards are forbidden to use their powers except when in dire need. The balance of power between mortals and astari would make mortals slaves and wizards an immortal elite.
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u/Cyberslasher May 07 '26
Gandalf the White is sent back with his powers, to do what still needed doing.
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u/AnyLynx4178 May 07 '26
Magic in Middle Earth is more subtle. We actually don’t always know when Gandalf was relying on magic and when he wasn’t. Same with the elves. We know that elven magic was just sort of baked into everything they did, everything they made. And yet they revere Mithrandir as being more powerful than they are.
The few times we do see Gandalf use his magic blatantly, it is against creatures that are far too powerful for mortals to face on their own. And he tends to hold his own.
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u/VesperX Ravenclaw May 07 '26
Gandalf is not a human wizard. He is a demigod. He influences the world, he only uses spells when he needs to.
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u/schalowendofthepool May 07 '26
"Stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself..."
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u/Illustrious-Film2926 May 07 '26
The thing about magic in LoTR is that some beings are able to influence reality by their presence/might. That's why, when Gandalf fights against mighty foes he states his station, name and purpose and tries to diminish that of his opponent as much as possible.
As Gandalf the Grey fighting against the Balrog, the Balrog grows the shadows and flames in a figurative and literal way to overpower the party. When Gandalf rebukes the Balrog, the flames, shadows and the Balrog itself recedes and is diminished.
It's sort of a extremely powerful buff and debuff that would absolutely tilt the fight in Gandalf's favor.
That being said, we don't know just how powerful either of them are. Gandalf because his power is tied to his presence which isn't really quantifiable specially when fighting others who do the same (like the Balrog and Saruman). Dumbledore because no one is even close to being his match in the HP universe.
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u/No_Cartographer_6577 May 08 '26
Harry Potter magic is weak i mean there is only 1 spell that causes death. Almost all gandalfs spells kill
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u/[deleted] May 07 '26
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