And it's always the same hate towards USA, but no one says the same about the americans, the citizens. (Probably because they're american themselves, so why would they hate themselves, regardless of the tens of atrocities in the Middle East, even outside Palestine?)
Don't fool yourself: people outside the US hating the US most often tends to rather demonize US citizens as a whole; the narrative indeed goes more like “since they're such a disgusting people, their country just can't be any better”.
The most anti-netenyahu pro Palestine person (apart from my close friends) I know is a Jewish Israeli, the biggest Zionist I know is a Christian from west Virginia.
I got a friend who's half Israeli and he's atheist and very much left-wing and anti-Zionist. Scary that so many people genuinely don't know and don't care for the difference.
I'd blame propaganda for that to some extent. Theres a lot of official misinformation and statements conflating the actions of the idf and the Israeli government with the intentions of all Jewish people. I.e. you are an anti semite if you call the "occupation" a genocide. People learn these things without nuance and take them at face value
....Also remind them that the current Israel are just two out of the 12 surviving tribes that returned from captivity. This only means that the current sandbox conflict is a case of infighting.
But the worst of all, it could be any one of us. It could be you, it could be me. It could even be–
The bullshit definition of Zionism has roots on the Soviet Union's judeophobic propaganda once Israel stopped being allied with them and allied with the US
isnt Zionism is a movement that emerged in late 19th century europe with the goal of establishing and supporting a sovereign Jewish national state in Palestine the ancient homeland of the Jewish people? this is what i think it means
Yes but antizionists "definitely not antisemites" lie and claim it's "supporting Netanyahu" "being pro genocide" "ethnostate" "theocracy" when it's none of those things
This is the genuine goal of there propaganda, associate all Jews with Israel and make sure all hate directed towards Israel feels directed to all Jewish people as well
It’s weird how many can’t differentiate Jewish people and call them all genocidal occupiers but will tell you exactly how nobody in Palestine is Hamas, none of them are murderers and how they’re all plucky freedom fighters.
I’m shocked that people side with Hamas, who murdered 1300 people and use civilians as human shields.
I’m surprised people just gloss over that Hamas were the elected government of Gaza and attacked a neighbour.
I’m surprised people are shocked that said neighbour decided to retaliate. It’s disproportionate, but in a way so was the US response to 9/11 where they invaded a country which was definitely harbouring the perpetrators. It was still always going to happen.
War is bad for everyone, kills many people on both sides. It is most definitely a war. Hamas was elected, it can’t hide behind anything any more. I mean, it can’t literally hide anywhere any more, after the surprise attack I’d be surprised if Palestine ever exists again in the way it did before. War isn’t discriminate, just as surprise attacking civilians and killing 1300 of them - many of them not even Israelis, not that it matters - was indiscriminate.
I’m sure the government of Israel speaks for all Jews, like how the government of the US and Donald Trump speaks for all Americans or how here in the UK, because we have a Labour government it speaks for literally everyone with their full support.
The current antisemitism in the Middle East has been going on since the 7th century. Iran and its proxies recruit child soldiers. Israel does not call every male child over 12 Hamas.
"It's disproportionate, but in a way so was the USA response to 9/11 where they invaded a country which was definetly harbouring the perpetrators"
... Are you seriously attempting to defend Israel's disproportionate and terrorist attack on Gaza by pointing out the absurd response the USA government gave to 9/11? You are underwhelming your own point.
"I'm sure the government of Israel speaks for all jews, like how the government of the US and Donald Trump speaks for all americans"
That is not even a fair comparison: saying Israel speaks for all jews would be like saying that america speaks for all christians, or for all anglo-saxons. Jew is not a nationality, it is a ethno-religious group, a group to which plenty of israeli citizens are not even part of, and there are plenty of jews who are not israeli as well.
Even if we were to take your argument at face value, having a nationality does not mean your goverment represents who you are as a person. Plenty of americans are not like Donald Trump, and oppose him in many ways.
Pro-Israel propagandists directly enable the idea that Judaism is inseparable from Zionism, and by extension, ethnic cleansing. It's legitimately a danger to Jews to present to people the false dichotomy of "You're either Zionist or antisemitic" because it'll make a lot of people think that it's ok to be antisemitic
How do you feel about the infinitely recurring "that ______ was owed to him/her/them 3000 years ago?" Does it feel like theyre attacking israel/zionists or jews in general?
I mean yeah what theyre referencing is Jews in the Levant 3000 years ago which is part of our history and the Torah. That’s making fun of all Jews who believe the Torah.
That's exactly the problem. It mischaracterises the claim. They're not there because "God promises this to us". They're there because they lived there and there's archaeological evidence they were living there. Reducing it to "promised them 3000 years ago" is the fairy tail.
The phrase "promised them 3000 years ago" is referencing the displacement of Palestinians justified with these claims, not simply the claims themselves. You can be aware that someone's ancestors lived in that land 3000 years ago, but still mock the use such claims to justify ethnic cleansing.
I agree that it is overused in a casually anti-semitic manner and I would not defend using the phrase like that. I was just clarifying ChaosOrnate's misinterpretation of the original meaning of the joke since they made it seem like everyone that uses this joke is unaware that Jewish people lived in Palestine 3000 years ago. The whole point of the joke is that sincerely pressing a 3000 year old land claim is absurd in and of itself, especially when the Palestinians they are displacing also have ancestors that lived in Palestine 3000 years ago.
It's the academic consensus based on genetic evidence that Palestinian ancestry is primarily indigenous to the Levant. While some Arabs were introduced 1500 years ago, Palestinians are closely related to groups such as the Lebanese, Jews, and Samaritans. Arab is a cultural and religious label, not one based on a concrete genetic reality.
Please, and I'm coming here trying to learn. From what I've read online, about 80% of all jews support Israel, is anything this number true at all? I know there's a ton of nuance regarding what "supporting Israel" entails, but if that number were true, would it not make sense to assume that most Jewish people are in favor of Israel? Maybe even what's going on right now? I try to stay as true to my morals as I can, and the way I see it right now, with those numbers I have the obligation to ask ones views on Israel if I meet someone who has a higher chance of sharing that believe, I don't see many Jewish people at all in my life but if the moment comes and I make such acquaintance I'd like to know if it's the right thing to do. Again, there's a lot of shit going on online and I'm trying to maybe get better information on the subject, this is not at all coming from a place of hate.
If I asked every Iranian I met if they support the IRGC slaughtering 30k protestors in a week, would that be racist and fucked up to you? If you asked every black person you meet what their thoughts are on Black Lives Matter, would that be racist and fucked up to you?
Yes, asking any Jew you meet if they support Israel is profoundly racist please don’t do it. You will immediately alienate any Jew around you and honestly will make them feel unsafe.
Yes 80% plus of us are Zionist in the sense that we think Israel should exist. That’s what Zionism is. In a sense Zionism stopped existing in 1948. It was successful because Israel exists. Most of us hate netenyahu and desire dignity humanity and security for Palestinians and Israelis. Supporting Israel means not wanting friends family and half the Jews of the world to stay alive and not die.
I can see you’re asking in good faith so it’s ok if you didn’t know this, but Zionism is not a precise political label. Focus on the actors and policies involved in terms of what you condemn and I’ll likely agree with you (humanitarian scale of suffering in Gaza, terrorist settlers in WB, Hamas’s undeterrable nature, their tunnel systems, human shields, the radicalization of both societies, etc).
That’s how you help people on the ground in this conflict without alienating or harming anyone around you as you learn more about it.
If you’re really interested, I recommend the following lectures, while taught by an Israeli, tell the Jewish and Palestinian stories. They’re really quite excellent. You don’t need to watch them you can just listen. Haviv Rettig Gur cuts through the noise of this conflict like nobody I’ve ever seen, and does so with compassion, deep historical knowledge, and a sharp wit.
Thanks for taking the time to read my replies. Your curiosity and openness does you credit.
I'll definitely be watching them, thanks again, it really is amazing to plug another viewpoint into ones own. Sometimes it really is just hard to "be good". I believe in the good of the people but I also think my belief system is a bit extreme so I'm still trying to figure things out.
As long as anti-zionists exist and Israel’s existence is still hypocritically debated, the term Zionism and the wish for it to continue to exist and have self determination is still relevant
It's about 40 percent people who literally cannot form opinions about someone unless they line up with all their views perfectly and about 60% people who want to start fights and derail any conversation they're in
Reminds me of an interaction I had on my city’s local sub. There was a post about elementary school girl who brought a gun to school to threaten some of her classmates and for whatever reason there were people making comments about Israel. I called them out and asked how any of that has to with this tragic situation and was called a Zionist and Israeli bot.
Every reel remotely related to Judaism has people in the comments saying “free Palestine” they play it off by saying they comment it under every post, yet I have yet to see a free Palestine comment under a post not related to Judaism (unless it’s actually contextually related).
Yeah same. Kinda like how whenever I post about being Jewish I get a lot of random DMs asking if I’m a Zionist, but when I post about video games or whatever I don’t.
Yet Christians would be extremely unlikely to randomly get the same interrogation.
And that is because there are 2.3 billion Christians, of whom the majority belong to Churches which are either not Zionist or are explicitly anti-Zionist.
There are ~20 million Jews in the world. And percentage-wise there are far more Zionists in the Jewish population than the Christian one for self-evident reasons. Therefore, if you meet a Jew, they're far more likely to be Zionist than the average Christian.
i followed Belarus situation from Moldova, it was heartbreaking. Voting worked with pinochette but it was one case, with lukash was other, he doubled down and keeps country hostage.
Yeah he’s not even pretending anymore. When BBC asked how they can call themselves democratic he went full mask off and said it’s democratic because his opponents can “choose” between prison or exile.
my husband was following news ofc and found that months after protest, omon would show at people's home and beat them for protesting. its so fk bleak. he got this from tg channel news what usually post stuff that is true. i decided not to follow up cause it's so dark. in my country we had just 7 april when people got so beaten by police that even our president resigned and many ppl refused to pursue power cause was that disgusting. cause we are mafias, thieves and sell outs, not full blown gestapo. never we even had such police brutality in history.
Except in Belarus they voted him out, he said nope, he threatened the winners family, forced her to make an apology for running, exiled her, and now if she ever returns she will also be imprisoned. The only reason she wasn’t imprisoned for trying to run against him was he didn’t think a woman could win. Normally, he just imprisons whoever runs against him.
I saw a video of a mom and her kids and there was this random ass comment that was like "Are you teaching your kids about current socialtal issues? Especially the ones who are getting old enough to vote?" Like bro mind your own fucking business
i agree they should just mind their business but i mean teaching older kids about basic societal issues as they prepare to be able to vote isnt the worst idea
No no you dont get it, le funny tel aviv impressed israel big yahu.
Im not a bot tho i swear i have a personality and not just attach myself to the latest trends despite not being funny because the people on my lhone dictate what is funny for me
"From the moment you wake up, someone is like 'hey, what's your fully formed opinion on this incredibly complex social issue that you just learned about two minutes ago? Quick, type it into your phone so the rest of us can tell you to fuck off and die.'"
what the fuck does israel have to do with that post at all, is there some correlation or is it genuinely just the commenter hijacking the post at random
Yeah, imo it's less about being "performative" and is more of a social hazing. Every little insignificant person recently learned that they can wield control over any remotely notable or famous person's life by asking them certain social or political questions.
That post was insufferable as hell anyways, some guy said he doesn't like mona lisa, and he prefers these other paintings (including that one in the picture) and op was like "lol those are the most vapid looking drawings ever" like idk man, that one looks hard as fuck to me man
it frustrates me when i see something i'm enthusiastic about, like this wonderful album by this wonderful band (although if i'm being honest, i do like jeopardy more), and i see the person who shared it only get a gross investigation that leads to zero reward.
This thread is so funny, though, it has the energy of the user with the anime icon going "Wait, I need to make sure I'm not agreeing with a nazi, or something.", and double-checking, before saying that they, too, found the album pretty good. I can't be mad at this, this is hilarious.
I feel like this shit tends to come from tankies/tankie adjacent spaces, like... I'll be real tankies are so performative with their activism and they tend to gravitate to purity testing especially
I am a leftist and I am against the genocide, but this kind of action genuinely does way more harm to the cause than it does benefit and there's a history of that too even outside of what's currently happening
Some people would still be anti-semitic regardless of the existence of Israel. It just gives real anti-semites cover by claiming their racist beliefs are helping to support human rights.
Semi related, but:
I've seen some pro Palestine content creators absolutely hate on people like Pink or Ed Sheeran because they support Israel and how their music sucks and how they're a laughingstock and so on, but the problem is that these content creators didn't say shit about them before Israel's invasion and never listened to or brought up their music, so it's like they form their opinion of everything about them based on their stance on Israel. I don't even like Israel but this is just stupid
I remember one time I faked a Russian accent in a tf2 lobby because I'm annoying as fuck and was playing as Heavy and some mf said in chat "tell putting to stop the war" like bitch even if I WAS Russian tf you expect me to do, sing to him?
israel is controlled by the jews you have to remember that. You can even see it in the flag where they have the star of David in it which is a Jewish symbol.
I don't necessarily want to put words into someone else's mouth but I feel like there's a desire amongst folk to consume ethically without necessarily going about it in the right way.
When you're supportive of certain things, it can feel like everything you do is wrong. Everything you buy ends up being owned by a company doing evil stuff, every film you watch was funded by some paedophile, every album you listen to you end up listening to in a way that gives some company a bigger cut than the artist themselves.
It can be nice to feel like you can turn your brain off and consume content without guilt. I think that's why Dropout's fanbase is the way it is. Because the company generally matches their ideology so well that any slight erring from that feels traitorous.
Why this is wrong, for me, is that it tends to manifest like the screenshot in OP where suddenly every streamer, actor, bassist from alternative bands with 200 fans, comedian, etc. is almost expected to make vast statements about topics that they may not really be that educated about, or may not wish to talk about everytime they have the platform to talk.
You could argue they SHOULD use their platform in that way but life is so fucking brutal in so many ways for so many people that some escapism is nice.
Tl;Dr I think there's a person with good intentions behind screenshots like this, they're just perhaps overwhelmed by circumstance and express that clumsily
can we also talk about how other ppls political views are none of our business 😭 i understand wanting to support people whose views align with yours, but no one owes you their opinion
I think this is to know whether or not the OP is a bot. Many bots are forbidden to express their views on Israel, so there's a good 80% chance that a bot will answer something along the lines of "I'm not a fan of politics" or "I don't have a view", whereas a real person would say that they support either
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u/nova_noveiia 1d ago
My experience as a Jew on the internet: