r/interesting • u/tyrion2024 • 10h ago

MISC. A Virginia man inadvertently left his phone recording while he was under anesthesia for a colonoscopy, which captured audio of the doctors: mocking him, instructing a medical assistant to lie to him, and discussing giving him a false diagnosis of hemorrhoids. In 2015, a jury awarded him $500,000.

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u/DeltaVexp 8h ago

Surgery or any operation involving a knocked out patient should absolutely be recorded.

A reminder that millions of unauthorized pelvic exams were carried out on anesthetised women WITHOUT their consent by medical students. A woman undergoing wrist surgery was subjected to a fucking pelvic exam by a student while she was unconscious.

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u/TillyFukUpFairy 6h ago

At 16 was having investigation for acute ectopic pregnancy. Given a bunch of morphine, wheeled of for internal ultrasound without a chaperone. I came round to the tech saying 'I bet you enjoy that, slut'. This was before phones, but I still record all medical appointments and refuse morphine.

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u/Lemon_lemonade_22 6h ago

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Disgusting doesn't even begin to describe it.

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u/TillyFukUpFairy 6h ago

Thank you. I was a long time ago, luckily it only has real limiting effect in very specific situations.

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u/BlubDerp 5h ago

I love your responses to the asshats not believing you. It was funny with the first one, and then you doubling down and using the same insult again really added to it a lot

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u/TillyFukUpFairy 5h ago

Did you know you can make someone's day by taking a walk off the edge of a cliff?

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u/BlubDerp 5h ago

Im not sure why you feel the need respond like that to me, if it was because what i said came off as sarcastic, it was not meant to be

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u/TillyFukUpFairy 5h ago

Reread your comment, it comes across as supportive in the first part and then piss taking in the second.

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u/aptsys 5h ago

That sounds rather far fetched

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u/TillyFukUpFairy 5h ago

Take your head and boil it

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u/UnitedAd7254 5h ago

Some of the stories ya'll make up are ridiculous.

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u/TillyFukUpFairy 5h ago

You can boil your head in piss

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u/iambetweentwoworlds 5h ago

How nice to live in a world where you don’t have to deal with this stuff that happens to us, and you get to put your head in the sand by thinking we lie. I believe her because of the horrific stories I have of my own. If you don’t do this kind of stuff but don’t believe us when we say it happens, are you really a good guy?

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u/wasabiburning 3h ago

I've had recovery nurses treat me like garbage and yell at me for not following instructions... as I'm puking from anesthesia recovery. But I was too dazed to be able to defend myself.

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u/Geawiel 1h ago

I had my entire colon removed, and a J pouch formed. It took 3 terrible surgeries. I already have severe nervous system damage from chemical exposure in the AF.

The surgeries wiped out my strength and energy. I was having severe trouble keeping hydrated and had to go in for IV fluids a lot. Every appointment I had with the surgeon was difficult to get to. My wife was holding me up and helping me walk each time.

The doc was an ass. "What is wrong with you this time?", as I'm barely able to hold myself up and shaking. Every damn appointment was like this. For a solid 10 days after the second surgery, swelling an inflammation was so bad I felt like I was being gutted alive. Yet this dude expected me to be all fucking rainbows and unicorns.

One of the times I went into the ER for fluids, they did a CT and found a giant blood clot in my abdomen. It was about 5 inches in diameter. They freaked out and sent me to in patient.

Doc came in the next day. "Why are you in the hospital now?", with a flat tone like I was somehow at fault. He said it was normal to get giant clots after abdomen surgery. How the fuck am I supposed to know this? I'm a patient, not a medical professional. I got ER guys freaking out and sending me to in patient. Wtf am I supposed to do? "Nah doc, I don't want to anger the surgeon gods."

This isn't even the most egregious I've been treated by a medical professional (doc or otherwise). I'm not a shitty patient either. I'm pretty upbeat, despite all my issues. Joking, trying to make light of a shitty situation, trying to make the day a little better for those around me. That's me. So I never can understand the animosity.

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u/JustMoreSadGirlShit 6h ago

and here i am fighting to get anesthesia for a pelvic exam 🫩 i hate this

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u/Fectiver_Undercroft 7h ago

I can think of a very small number of ways this could charitably be said to have happened by accident. How did this come to light? Did they try to bill her?

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u/WVildandWVonderful 6h ago

It’s not “by accident.” It’s just not disclosed.

There is an entire Wikipedia article about this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelvic_examinations_under_anesthesia_by_medical_students_without_consent

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u/Fectiver_Undercroft 3h ago

Yeah, 3.5 million occurrences gets us well past the regime of “very few honest mistakes.”

Thank you for the link.

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u/crumpledCrow 7h ago

Google it.

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u/Afraid_Equivalent_95 2h ago

wtf this is really scary

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u/Mylifeasasavannah 6h ago

I’m super interested as to where in the country these unauthorized pelvic exams are happening. Working in the medical field I have never heard of or seen unauthorized pelvic exams that would be unrelated to immediate life saving care. I am a woman and would really like to know the true source beyond a news channel segment.

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u/ImpossiblePlan65 5h ago

Use google. And a lot of states have now banned the practice.

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u/Mylifeasasavannah 5h ago

That’s good! I was more envisioning a line of students trying out their pelvic exam skills which was an appalling thought and not something I’d seen before, I was confused. I guess I also never realized when they were reading off consent for aspects of the procedure it meant only the specific doctor and not the resident or possible attending. This wiki article was informative.

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u/elitesense 2h ago

This is why it's important to look things up before taking the time to write a dumb comment

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u/[deleted] 7h ago

[deleted]

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u/DeltaVexp 6h ago

I'm more concerned about the headline "Florida surgeon removes a patient's liver instead of his spleen."

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u/[deleted] 6h ago

[deleted]

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u/liberal_parnell 5h ago

It happened in late 2024, and the surgeon was convicted this year. He had previously made other massive errors during surgeries, but was not punished.

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u/No-Alternative4612 8h ago

Don't go to a teaching hospital if this bothers you? And I guess get ready for worse Healthcare for women if the objection becomes widespread.

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u/NearSightedLlama 8h ago

The idea that medicine can only move forward by continuing to subject women to procedures against their will while unconscious in insane and disgusting. Get some help

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u/DeltaVexp 8h ago

Sounds like a medical student who violated some unconscious women for his "training".

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u/Fectiver_Undercroft 7h ago

Welcome to Crazy Town, where that’s seen as the right answer to “well, obviously all early medical research had to be done on male cadavers because digging up female ones was too hard to explain. Let’s just assume male medicine applies to women; what could go wrong?”

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u/[deleted] 8h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/NearSightedLlama 8h ago

Again, they did NOT consent to it. Under exactly ZERO circumstances, even in a teaching hospital, should a woman go in for wrist surgery and come out having a pelvic exam simply cuz it was better for the student.

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u/No-Alternative4612 8h ago

We have institutional autonomy. You're 100% welcome to go elsewhere.

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u/BloodLossMinimal-ish 7h ago

“We” ? You’re implying youre a med student or doctor? As a doctor I am appalled that you think this means you may do any medical exam or procedure. Part of the “informed consent” sheet is the ~informed~ part. Sensitive exams and any procedure with risks should always be disclosed as a possiblitiy in that part. Hence why we often include “possible xyz, possible endoscopy, possible colonoscopy, possible pelvic exam, etc”

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u/Nihsvabhav 7h ago

autonomy to give unauthorized pelvic exams?

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u/NearSightedLlama 7h ago

I hope you never touch another person again in your life, much less hold any sort of medical authority over someone. This is disgusting, and whoever convinced you it's "normal" or "fine" should also lose their license

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u/No-Alternative4612 7h ago

Maybe let the professionals decide on how to practice medicine, we've had enough interference over this particular bit of nonsense. Luckily the mob got distracted by the next thing before my state joined in.

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u/Anthemusa831 7h ago

Maybe this is why the public consensus here is that medical professionals are egomaniacs and have superiority complexes.

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u/No-Alternative4612 7h ago

If you feel that way, feel free to rely on a witch doctor or healing crystals the next time you feel sick.

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u/JustMoreSadGirlShit 6h ago

you see why so many of us are afraid to go to the dr, yes?

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u/No-Alternative4612 6h ago

Medical care in this country has more important things to worry about than handholding people that would rather wallow at home than seek care.

Though on this specific issue, I've seen far more evidence that men are the one's hesitant to seek care.

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u/JustMoreSadGirlShit 6h ago

what an incredibly narrow view point from someone pretending to be a dr online i’m so surprised

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u/No-Alternative4612 6h ago

If knowing how actual professionals feel about this political faux outrage upsets you, you're welcome to assume I'm lying.

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u/ChallengeEnough1656 8h ago

You know how many pieces of paper and disclosures you have to sign before you go into surgery? I’m willing to bet money there was some fine print that allowed it to happen when the patient signed.

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u/Anthemusa831 7h ago

Do some research.

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u/_i_read 6h ago

There wasnt. Look up the case.

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u/dyslexicwriterwrites 6h ago

If that was the case, the article wouldn’t be calling it “without consent” since that’s libel (and sue-able).

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u/Anthemusa831 7h ago edited 7h ago

Hey MAN, I hope they perform a sounding on your penis next time you are unconscious at the hospital getting a random procedure done.

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u/Beaut1830 7h ago

It's clearly a troll

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u/Slow-Swan561 8h ago

The problem is the lack of consent not the procedure or who did it.

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u/No-Alternative4612 8h ago

Again, there are plenty of non-teaching hospitals.

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u/Aphreyst 5h ago

📢🚨TROLL ALERT

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u/Eldoran401 8h ago

This is such a dumb take. It's good that students get the training they need... but you NEED to have consent. And what if one screws up and causes lasting damage... but bc the patient didnt know, they are now saddled with problems and no recourse from who did it

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u/No-Alternative4612 8h ago

Lasting damage from a supervised pelvic exam? Being hit by a meteorite is at least comparably likely.

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u/Dangerous-Crow7494 7h ago

“Don’t go to a teaching hospital if you’re a woman and don’t want to be raped” yeah, I won’t. 

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u/antonio3988 7h ago

Lol bro wtf

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u/AverageGardenTool 6h ago

Right wtf is wrong with them. They are STILL defending unconsenting exams by going "well just go to a woo woo doctor".

This is actually one of the reasons we have less trust for the medical profession Jack ass.

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u/dyslexicwriterwrites 6h ago

Idk babe, I think “don’t touch without consent” and “don’t do any procedures the patient hasn’t approved” are pretty important things the hospital should be teaching.

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u/No-Alternative4612 6h ago

"Alternative medicine" where a friendly woman waves crystals in your face is always an option.

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u/dyslexicwriterwrites 1h ago

Waving crystals in my face versus sexual assault & untrustworthy docs. How could I ever choose?

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u/BloodLossMinimal-ish 7h ago

Hey so recent grad doctor here and no. Yes if you are getting a gynecological surgery and a med student is part of your care, yes they may do a pelvic exam after the resident/attending in order for education as you are advised during the surgery you will receive pelvic exams. Parading students not a part of the care OR even worse, doing an unneeded/unrelated pelvic exam is absolutely inappropriate in all education settings.

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u/DeltaVexp 7h ago

>they may do a pelvic exam after the resident/attending in order for education as you are advised during the surgery you will receive pelvic exams

Incoherent response. I've outlined nonconsensual pelvic exams conducted on patients under general anesthesia i.e the patient wasn't aware that such a test would be conducted and informed consent wasn't provided.

>Yes if you are getting a gynecological surgery

Not necessarily. Unauthorized pelvic exams were also done on patients undergoing non-gynecological surgeries.

>Parading students not a part of the care OR

That's.... incorrect. Many medical students on rotation were instructed by the attending doctors or residents to carry out the PE on unconscious patients, as part of their training, as conducting the test on a patient with relaxed muscled under general anesthesia would give the students better training and knowledge of the anatomy, some medical students reject doing this btw.

>unneeded/unrelated pelvic exam is absolutely inappropriate in all education settings

Glad we agree. The practice was outlawed in roughly half of the U.S., but it's still somewhat widespread.

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u/BloodLossMinimal-ish 6h ago

Hey bro, again I am on your side. During informed consent a patient is informed that a med students/resident is a part of their care and will be in the OR aka assisting with any part in the OR deemed appropriate for that student/resident’s level/competency. I am not denying the systematic abuse of lack of consent in the past or anywhere currently that is practicing so unethically, I am refuting this random so-called doctor saying “this is within the institutional autonomy of teaching hospitals” cause as I agree with you and in being a practicing surgeon, no it is not and should not be. Calling it “parading students” was used intentional to show the unethical nature of the practice that has been documented in the past.

Direct your frustration and anger at the dude saying it’s normal at teaching hospitals

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u/No-Alternative4612 7h ago

"Parading" is reductive and begging the question. We've adapted to the "new" federal guidelines along with everyone else.

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u/BloodLossMinimal-ish 7h ago

If you have then you should know that pelvic exams or other sensitive exams require “Explicit consent is required specifically when these exams are conducted for educational or training purposes and are not part of the necessary surgical or medical procedure itself” that would include the WHO. aka stating the medical student is xyz who will also be present in the surgery and performing exams along with the doctors NOT a medical student may perform an exam and then bringing in multiple students who are unrelated to this patient’s care just to do an exam since the patient is there

Again in medical education, those A PART of care is within informed consent. Bringing in random students just to do an exam for practice is not

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u/DeltaVexp 7h ago

I mean, it's kinda funny that you deny the existence of the practice when u/No-Alternative4612 have actually done quite a few PE's on patients without their knowledge back when he was in medical school.

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u/BloodLossMinimal-ish 6h ago

Hey I think your comment is misdirected? I’m not saying it has never happened, I’m saying that is not within institutional autonomy or the HHS guidelines for sensitive exams. I am the one (as a doctor) saying bringing in unauthorized, unrelated medical students is unethical and combatting his belief that it falls within teaching hospital autonomy

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u/DeltaVexp 6h ago

No, it's appropriately directed. The HSS did issue a mandate requiring hospitals to obtain clear consent prior to such procedures (only in 2024) but doing those unauthorized procedures absolutely does fall within teaching hospital autonomy, so that creep is sadly right. As in the practice is/was completely institutional. You're saying it's unethical but tacitly suggesting that it's carried out by rogue actors but denying that it's institutional, which is completely false.

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u/BloodLossMinimal-ish 6h ago edited 5h ago

Uhhh so no - clear consent is required, meaning unauthorized procedures opens a hospital to litigation and potential penalties by the joint commission regardless of private or teaching hospital

Doing a pelvic exam on a wrist surgery patient would be considered assault

Edit to add: retroactive litigation for something in 2010 wouldn’t be possible but current? Yes, unless you could prove medical indication such as in a general surgery, if we had concern for a vaginal wall injury, we may do a pelvic exam that wasn’t discussed prior to ensure no apparent full thickness vaginal wall injury (however usually at that point if we suspected, we would call gyn instead of doing it ourself)

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u/No-Alternative4612 7h ago

To be fair, the "rule" is actually just a few years old.

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u/No-Alternative4612 7h ago

Right, that can mostly be worked with in my experience. Various states of enacted much more onerous requirements.

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u/SecondBreakfast428 5h ago

Let's sexually assault women for the sake of medical progress /s

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u/PersephoneHazard 5h ago

If I was asked whether or not a student could give me a pelvic exam while I was under for training purposes, I would consent. My local hospital is a teaching hospital so I've had quite a few "can this student observe/try/etc" requests throughout my life and I have always said yes.

If I found out this had happened without my knowledge or consent while I was vulnerable and unconscious, I'd feel horribly violated.

Surely you can see that those are different things?