r/invasivespecies • u/Last13th • 1d ago
Stop the Phragmites?
We have a marshy area behind our house, covered in phragmites. My property line actually sits about six feet into the phragmites (which we actually like), but I’m trying to reclaim 3 or 4 feet, so we can put a fence in (we got a new puppy). I’ve started cutting it back, but of course, next spring it’ll come back. Is there a good was, minus chemicals or salt to stop it? If I seed or sod the cut back area, and just make sure it stays cut, will I eventually gain some control? And if so, would I seed/ sod now (mid-October), or wait until spring? We are in northern Delaware.
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u/leepin_peezarfs 1d ago
I’m an ecologist that specializes in invasive species removal. Phragmites do not respond to manual treatment. Unless you are willing to sift the soil for every trac of root, you need to use glyphosate. Glyphosate isn’t evil , you just have to use it correctly. Best time to spray is late July, early August, when they are starting to send nutrients back to their roots. It can be done earlier, but you will need to retreat it. Seeding or sodding over it will only make a mess because they WILL grow through it. If you aren’t willing to wait, buy a brush cutter and cut it back every week. That will be a task for the next decade of your life.
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u/curseblock 12h ago
Since phragmites are usually next to or in water, would a variance need to be obtained for a commercial applicator to treat them?
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u/Greasybeast2000 11h ago
There is aquatic approved glyphosate but you should always assess the risk. Also 90% of commercial applicators won’t do as good of a job as somebody who is competent and cares about their own property
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u/curseblock 11h ago
As a master commercial applicator who's passionate about mitigating the damage of invasive species and protecting our ecosystems, that's a pretty narrow view. But thanks for the tip.
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u/Greasybeast2000 4h ago
I’ve been an applicator for years, also conduct ecological surveys and monitor restoration projects and rare habitat. Applicators are sloppy and often produce unacceptable results. You are the 10% of good ones. They don’t receive enough training, supervision, or resources to do the best job
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u/leepin_peezarfs 4h ago
Excellent question! If they’re in an isolated marshy area on your property, I would just grab an aquatic approved glyphosate and a surfactant (makes it sticky so it stays on the plant better). If it was a lakeshore or a waterway that is large and goes on other properties, then yes a permit would likely be needed.
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u/curseblock 2h ago
Thank you! I'd definitely need a permit. Once I get the appropriate licenses, I'm going to figure out how I can donate services to local municipalities. Rn I'm trying to figure out best approaches and anticipate obstacles, so when I'm ready to move forward I can actually get down to it.
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u/streachh 1h ago
If you're in the States, literally just can your pesticide department. They're super nice, at least in my area. They'll tell you exactly what you need and maybe even do a free site visit to help you ensure compliance. If you call and ask for help they won't bust you for not knowing what you don't know
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u/shrampmaster 1d ago
Attempting to fight these without glyphosate or other herbicides is going to be a Herculean task. Reseeding with native plants (wild rice, native Phragmites species) might help control the spread in addition to other methods of control, like pulling and cutting.
Please do not put salt in the wetland. It will have detrimental effects on the entire ecosystem, not just the reeds, and you open yourself up to legal liability via destroying an ecosystem.
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u/Progedog 1d ago
You could flood the area to drown the phrag. Doubt that is feasible though.
You could "spade" the area you want to use. This chops the rhizomes and is the only mechanical control that will do anything. Pulling shoots will cause more shoots than before. But you are absolutely in a losing battle without glyphosate.
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u/leepin_peezarfs 1d ago
Do not flood phragmites. They love water. They’ll thrive.
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u/Progedog 1d ago
They cannot breathe water. It can be effective in areas where it is feasible to raise the water over one season.
Should really be clipping the flowers off too.
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u/leepin_peezarfs 4h ago
They are an aquatic species. Unless you’re submerging the entire plant for an extended period of time, it won’t do anything. Cutting the flowers won’t hurt, but they spread primarily through root fragments.
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u/Honest_Archaeopteryx 1d ago
You’re pretty much screwed without glyphosate or an herbicide. Unfortunately, you’re probably late for this year to do anything. Maybe still ok where you are. And don’t spray in spring either: need to wait until like next September or so.
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u/kermitsbutthole 1d ago
Unless you built an underground wall/barrier I think you’ll pretty much just need to keep mowing it, since it’ll just keep wanting to come your way. You can just keep mowing it as it comes through, though.
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u/RevisionofGrace 1d ago
Discovered an old book that advised sheep herders not to continuously graze their sheep on that phragmites if they want to keep it. Basically, if you continue to cut phragmites, it’ll go away. I’ve kept all of it trimmed with a weed eater for spring and summer and it’s gone now.
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u/leepin_peezarfs 1d ago
This will take decades. The root system on these things is rarely rivaled.
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u/RevisionofGrace 1d ago
The stuff I killed had been there since the mid 90s.
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u/leepin_peezarfs 4h ago
That’s great. It’s still gonna take a long time to eliminate phragmites via repeated mowing. I’m glad that worked for you but a one off experience does not negate established science.
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1d ago
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u/Im_the_dogman_now 1d ago
I'd always recommend checking county and state regs before draining any type of wetland. Last thing the OP wants to do is pay a hefty fine on top of paying to replace the wetland.
Generally, if the wetland developed in an upland because of development, then they aren't protected. The possible problem with trying to drain it is that it is not entirely on the OP's property, which means any attempt to drain it could be considered harming the property that the remainder of the wetland is on. If the adjacent property is public, that could mean the wetland is protected regardless of its genesis. Of all the management options OP has, attempting to drain the area has the most legal risk associated with it.
The easiest method for control would be using herbicide on the fresh growth. Since the OP doesn't want to use chemical control, next option would be putting a gate back there for regular mowing. In a natural setting, phragmites is generally controlled by a combination of using herbicide in the existing colony, seeding with other wetland species, and managing the hydrology to provide periods where soil moisture is less ideal for the phragmites.
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u/studmuffin2269 1d ago
You will never beat phrag without herbicides. I like a mix of glyphosate and Oust. If it’s a site that holds water, you’re limited to just glyphosate
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u/Winter_Persimmon_110 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wait till it flowers, that's when it's got all the energy above ground it's gonna have, then cut it down to the ground. Trees will keep it gone. Just get something fast-growing that will overshadow it, job done. A brush cutter is good for that amount, while the trees come up.
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u/leepin_peezarfs 1d ago
Nothing friendly will outgrow phragmites. Trees will not keep it gone, either.
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u/Winter_Persimmon_110 1d ago
They can't tolerate shade. Anything can outgrow phragmite that's cut to the ground regularly.
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u/leepin_peezarfs 4h ago
So you’re suggesting they buy a fully grown, fully crowned out tree and put it in their yard? Or should they buy a little one and wait ten years for it to get a big enough canopy? They can tolerate more shade than you think. And if you’re cutting it down all the time, nothing else is gonna grow either. Phragmites are too dense, unless you’re getting in there with a pruner you’re going to cut everything.
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u/ReptilianRevolt 1d ago
So you are OK with potentially throwing herbicides into an ecosystem just for a damn dog? The dog is also invasive in its own way.
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u/Trickykids 1d ago
Cut it and then when it comes back up (but while it’s still low) spray it with glyphosate. You should get a formulation that is safe for aquatic applications (roundup is not safe for aquatic but other glyphosate formulations are- like rodeo).
By cutting it and then letting it sprout again you both weaken the plant and get your target lower so you can spray down instead of up (which you don’t want to do.)
Salt might seem like a more eco-friendly option than herbicide, but it is not. It will hurt all the amphibians that might be in there while an aquatic safe herbicide will target specific processes within a plant.
It also may take multiple applications.
Good luck.