r/lakers • Adou Thiero 1 • 1d ago

PLAYER TALK Mamu should start

A lot of people saying he's a great candidate for 6thman of the year, but from seeing him play, he seems to be aiming a little higher than that.

27 Upvotes

79 comments sorted by

75

u/bigbadbernard Austin Reaves 1d ago

Mamu is connector between the starters and the bench. We need someone good on the bench so we don’t throwaway leads on non-starter minutes

10

u/MangoDouble3259 1d ago

This is main idea tbh. Luka and ar is enough playmaking and defensive liability.

Mamu purpose is to be inserted when one is sitting or both. The playmaking doesn't become iso ar or luka anymore and you only have 2 defensive liabilities in lineups vs 3.

You can actually move offense through another guy like mamu. He is our 3rd best playmaker tbh. Sexton is back up pg but he leans more into the microwave scorer with not terrible playmaking and hustle defense.

2

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

He isn't a playmaker next to Luka and Reaves, he is a rub that makes sure the offense is fluid.

-1

u/itsme_lucas90 Adou Thiero 1 1d ago

Really don't see Mamu as defensive liability, he's been just as good as Kessler I believe and is doing wonders vs PG who are faster, not letting the shoot the 3s or get in the paint. I know it's preseason, but if his defense keeps up I don't see why he wouldn't except for managing Kessler's minutes.

6

u/TheAssist 1d ago

Yeah that’s why we signed sexton

-1

u/goatnxtinline I Hate it here 💜💛 1d ago

Sexton is a scoring guard, he not a play maker like mamu

28

u/Leoyakin00 1d ago

Mamu is wasted with the starters. You know Luka and AR will have the ball and take nearly all the shots. I'd rather have a Thybulle or Zaire playing alongside them.

9

u/OmniLament 1d ago

Yes, put defenders with Luka and AR.

Walker, Ziaire, Quentin, AR, Luka

Looney, Mamu, Carr, Matisse, Colin

Vando, Adou, Jake, Hardy, Bronny

Sorry Knecht, you’re mind too fucked up to play

11

u/No-Responsibility298 8♾️24 1d ago

Adou is going to be 2nd string over Carr. Ideally they’re both 2nd but the rook is prob 10th/11th man

5

u/Southern-Minute8815 1d ago

Jake will prolly be second string

1

u/juanhalohalo 1d ago

Yeah I think Williams is the starter and Adou might start whenever Williams is out. Just like how it is in the preseason.

2

u/Gristle__McThornbody 80 1d ago

It's Rui all over again. What the Rui stans didn't understand last season and got butt hurt for saying Laravia is better in the starting lineup is you maximize Ruis impact from the bench. In the starting lineup, there was already too much usage between Luka, Reaves, and James. It's possible we see Mamu closing out games like Rui but starting him doesn't make a lot of sense.

2

u/hottakehotcakes 6 1d ago

I think this makes sense. However, obviously there’s a breaking point at which talent outweighs fit. Like Jokic would inarguably be better with the starters than Kessler even though he’s an awful fit and Kessler is a great one.

The question is - is Mamu’s offense so much better than laravia’s overall game and fit that his strengths eclipse his weaknesses. And I’m honestly close to saying yes. Mamu looks SO good as a passer, shooter, creator that I’d be interested to see him at pf next to Kessler.

-4

u/itsme_lucas90 Adou Thiero 1 1d ago

What do you mean wasted? He would be there as a versatile defender and be ready for a catch and shoot or a lob in the paint

27

u/SpikeKowalski 1d ago

Otoh, Mamu not starting let's him beat up on the other team's bench while Jake being with the starters puts less pressure on him.

20

u/MarcusHash Black Mamba 8/24 1d ago

We don't want Looney to play a lot of minutes in every single game so I would rather see Mamu as the man who subs in instead of Kessler and then remains on the floor for a significant time while starting ZW.

7

u/icedxylophone Luka Magic 77 1d ago

I'd love for him to start, but it has to be on a matchup basis. I like that way of setting up the game anyway. Should always avoid the situation we were last szn with putting out lineups we knew before they touched the court would be bad when we have options.

-Forgot to mention, should prolly have another backup 5 that we can trust if he is given big mins at the 4.

7

u/lelelelepopopo 1d ago

Mamu will thrive more if he comes off the bench

-1

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

Like AR, right? /s

5

u/motorboat_mcgee 1d ago

I like him being a heavy minutes 6th man ala Odom, Manu, etc

3

u/splunger12 1d ago

Buha has convincingly argued this is a lot like a Rui scenario last year. May work on offense but the defensive challenges with 3 average defenders on the court at once (Luka, AR, Mamu) is not likely to be your best starting lineup. So big 3 plus Grimes and Zaire (or one of the other defensive monsters) works better. Same as Smart in the floor last year when Rui was better offensive player.

I'm for Mamu as 6th at least to start the season.

3

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

It is arguably because our best starting lineup last season was Smart, AR, Luka, Rui and Ayton.

LeBron only reached the netrtg that unit had together in the last 10-12 games before Luka and AR injuries, but that lineup with LeBron for 10 games only reached the same netrtg the team had with Rui, he never got above it.

It was Smart as PG and not benching Rui that made the greatest difference. Keeping Smart you could swap Rui and LeBron with the same practical results on the team netrtg. 

Yes, Mamu can facilitate a bit, but he does it in the flow of the game while LeBron was a high usage player that needed the ball to be at his best.

2

u/splunger12 1d ago

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the defensive liability of LeBron and Rui together was I believe the biggest factor in it not working. But I don't broadly disagree with you. There is room to both wish we still had LeBron and also see the upside of being able to construct without the politics of seniority.

2

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

They didn't work together with a traditional C, Rui and LeBron only worked in small ball lineups against specific matchups. 

Rui had a better netrtg than LeBron next to Smart, AR and Luka because he was a better fit, LeBron barely shot above the 30% mark from 3 and the space was fucked with him on the floor. Late in the season he became active without the ball cutting and attacking the basket out of the weak side then he reached the netrtg Rui had with the guys, but LeBron never surpassed it even at his best, he was just a bad fit.

I think Mamu is our best option to start if we have WK protecting the rim. Against a few matchups you bring another defenser, but Ziaire and Matisse are just perimeter defenders, what separates them from Vando is that they can supposedly hit an open 3, they can't drible, pass or shoot, both are extremely limited offensive players. Jake is my 2nd choice here, but he also get abused by quick perimeter players and he isn't as good as Sandro on offense.

The greatest question here is, can Grimes or someone else replace Smart?

1

u/splunger12 1d ago

I like where you're going. My hope is Adou actually vaults into powerhouse defender by mid season and our starters are Grimes, Luka, AR, WK, Adou.

2nd squad AR/Sexton, Mamu, new center (not looney please), and some of those 3&D options like Zaire, Thybulle, Jake, etc. Carr after all star break maybe if he develops.

1

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

Adou need to develop an offensive game beyond dunking otherwise we are going to have problems with space like we had with LeBron and Vando.

3

u/Doc_JC 24 1d ago

Him or Kessler need to be on the floor at all times imo. You can’t do that starting him. He will overlap with Kessler in lineups, it just won’t be at the start of the game/half.

2

u/Unable_Vermicelli_55 1d ago

Nah let mamu come off the bench and put grimes and laravia at the 3 and 4. Sexton and mamu off the bench with like carr would be insane

2

u/Tiny_Spread5712 1d ago

I think that he might in spots, but he's a small ball center that should be perfect in a five out ball movement offense where the offense can really open things up

2

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

From everything I saw he is a PF.

2

u/Tiny_Spread5712 1d ago

He's slow defensively for a PF that needs to play next to Luka, and you don't get the spacing advantages, since you can just put another pf there.

Like against the spurs, you have wemby, Harris, vassel, castle and fox.

So grimes on fox, reaves on castle, mamu on vassel?, Luka on harris and Kessler on wemby. I don't see how that works at all. Mamu will get deep fried. and then everyone else is going to be spun up trying to help and waste energy on defense.

I know there are other teams, but you have to start with building something you think can work at the highest level, oftherwise, what are you playing for.

2

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago edited 1d ago

You always adjust to the opponent if we are talking about a playoff series.

The OKC frontcourt manhandled Ayton, Rui and LeBron badly. If you are facing multiple perimeter threads you bring other players to get stops, but as I said, on regular basis I'd always start the best players.

1

u/Tiny_Spread5712 1d ago

I'm not just talking about playoffs, I'm talking about building a functional team that can play against athletic wings. Your first option shouldn't be well, let's adjust out of our plan.  

Just build a functional plan first.

1

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

Do you really think defending the midrange is more important to make a team functional than high IQ, basketball skills and rebounding?

We have a rim protector now, all we are giving to the other teams is the midrange.

I wouldn't start Mamu without Kessler

1

u/Tiny_Spread5712 1d ago

We had that last year with Lebron at a much higher level of BBIQ, Skills and rebounding. How is this even a question?

1

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

LeBron didn't have a legit him protector behind him and on offense it took him almost the entire season to figure out the team was better when he was active without the ball. The team had to finally defeat not one, but two good teams for the first time in the season exactly in the span of 3 games where LeBron was out to the high IQ king figure out that with that specific core the team would be better with him as James Worthy than as Magic Johnson. A huge problem with LeBron and the reason the team always had a better netrtg with Rui that is a much worse player in his place was that last season LeBron couldn't shoot to save his life, he was barely better than Vando and an ice cold Jake from 3 messing up the space badly.

You can see Mamu had the better TS% of the crop, he isn't turnover prone despite a mid usage, he posted the best WS/48 of the group, was the best rebounder and shot blocker while his defense wasn't bad.

In playoffs the head coach let him in an island guarding James Harden and recovering to prevent Allen dunks. He failed miserably, but I'm not sure how much better Rui would be in similar situation. When LeBron wants he can still be a very good defender, but at his age you may agree that every season he wants less and less.

1

u/Tiny_Spread5712 1d ago

I don't know how you avoid matching him up with people he can't handle, unless you are talking about teams with no athletic wings. The idea that you just plan on him getting blown by because kessler is back there is ridiculous. Kessler is hypothetically good but he's not AD or Wemby where he's a two man defense unto himself. If you are building in defensive breakdowns from the first play of the game you are going to have a long season and a short postseason.

Play him at his natural position, get rest for Kessler, and change the geometry of the team. it feels like it should be easy.

1

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

His natural position is PF, how can you think it is C after watching him? How many PF are going to "blow by" a player?

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2

u/thetitsOO 2324 1d ago

Mamu won’t start, he’s being played as the bench version of Luka. Agree tho he is one of the 5 best players on the team and will be interested to see what JJ is thinking for the closing lineup. I would expect he is closing in a good number of situations.

3

u/DelaRoad 1d ago

I swear, some of you dont watch the games or dont understand basketball.

1

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

Exacly, some guys want to start minimum players that barely have basketball skills just because they are athletic.

You bring those one dimensional players to stop the bleeding, you don't start them.

0

u/itsme_lucas90 Adou Thiero 1 1d ago

Am I dumb or did you just say Mamu is one dimensional? I want him to prove he should start because he makes the team better defensively, and from what I saw he has no issues being a playmaker and or scorer. The focus being being the best defensive team possible.

2

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

The one dimensional players are Vando, Matisse, Ziaire and Adou that have extremely limited offensive skillsets.

I'd only consider Jake and Mamu as starters.

3

u/sards3 1d ago

I agree. Mamu is one of the team's five best players, and he deserves to start. It's fine for the starting lineup to be offense-focused. The gap between Mamu and Zaire on offense is much bigger than the gap between Zaire and Mamu on defense.

2

u/lafadeaway 1d ago

I think the gap in defense between Ziaire and Mamu is actually pretty huge

-1

u/juanhalohalo 1d ago

Yeah, Ziaire is not that much better than Jake or Adou.

2

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

You nailed it.

Against some teams with two dominant perimeter scorers you bring someone of the bench to stop the bleeding, but in most cases you always want to start your best players and Mamu is our 4th best player.

2

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago edited 1d ago

This is the same conversation I've read for years about AR.

I'd start Mamu for the single reason I'd always start the best players unless they play the same position and Mamu is the 4th best player on this team.

Yes he can be a connector to the bench, you stagger your best player and as a decent point forward he helps the primary ballhandler facilitating like a few hokey assists off LeBron passes this preseason, the most remarkable the pass that led to Grimes beautiful poster dunk.

Jake would be my second option.

-2

u/itsme_lucas90 Adou Thiero 1 1d ago

I get your point but mine is the opposite, I see the team better defensively with him on the court.

1

u/LudwigNasche 1d ago

When we think rebound is a huge part of defense and that OKC manhandled LeBron, Rui and Ayton badly I agree. It is always better to give a midrange shot to the other team than second opportunities. But I think it only works with Kessler protecting the paint.

1

u/itsme_lucas90 Adou Thiero 1 1d ago

I'm going by what I've seen from him this preseason.

2

u/CartoonsAndAppleJack Shaq and Kobe 1d ago

Nope

1

u/Lucieddreams Austin Heaves 1d ago

I think he should come off the bench as the backup small ball center so he can play as a hub. It's so doable and I love his bbiq and passing ability. Modern basketball man, I think there are various different lineups where it could work

1

u/indoor_fish 1d ago

What’s difference with starting Rui or Mamu ? Luka , AR, that already not playing D. If kesler is out our defensive rating will take a hit

1

u/Estebanez 1d ago

Defense is the biggest priority for starting next to Luka+AR. They have to defend the other team's top options. The balance would be better with him in a 6th man role.

1

u/Little_Papaya_2475 1d ago

Let him cook in the regular season for a bit and then maybe we can consider it

1

u/itsme_lucas90 Adou Thiero 1 1d ago

Ya this is what I mean, if he earns the spot I'm sure JJ will reward him

1

u/indoor_fish 1d ago

What’s difference with starting Rui or Mamu ? Luka , AR, that already not playing D. If kesler is out our defensive rating will take a hit

1

u/SneakyGoblin69 23h ago

Mamu can rebound? But then again, we don’t want to overwork Kessler. We need him healthy and fresh or our season is over

-2

u/itsme_lucas90 Adou Thiero 1 1d ago

Did you watch any of the preseason? The reason I think he will deserve it is mainly for his defense. He would defend PG well not letting them shoot the 3 and held down the paint. I mean what more can you ask of a guy?

1

u/favorite_sardine 8 1d ago

Too many 2k GMs now. Trying to distribute minutes via excel formula.

I agree, start Mamu. He’s a hooper.

Like the old proverb says… if your guy is getting tired, give him a blow.

1

u/itsme_lucas90 Adou Thiero 1 1d ago

If you see my other comments, I just want him if he earns it he should start, and JJ is the first Coach since Phil that I trust 💯. I'm sure he will do what's best for the team. My point is that Kessler and Mamu on the court is gonna be high level defense.

0

u/OzManDiez 1d ago edited 1d ago

We’re starting grimes and a quicker 3 and D wing.
Ar and grimes guard 1/2, either Jake, thybulle, or Zaire guard the best forward, Luka guards the other one and walker holds down the post. Microwave sexton, microwave/future star carr. 2 of Jake, thybulle, or Zaire and mamu being a faster baby joker off the bench. Then we have Bum bronny, bum hardy, bum knect, bum vando, future star theiro, old ass looney and hopefully manon. Hopefully we can consolidate knect, vando, and hardy into a backup center and another guard. I wish we didn’t have these bums and instead somehow kept Smart, Rui and Hayes

Luka/ar/grimes/zaire/kessler
Sexton/carr/thybulle/Mamu/Hayes
Smart/Jake/Theiro/Rui/Looney
Bronny/manon/kaluma on 2 ways. Maybe swider instead of Bronny if Bronny is guaranteed. This is the squad Rob could’ve realistically cooked up. Literally 15 deep. 3 deep at every position and versatile.