r/manga • • Jul 29 '25

DISC [DISC] Chainsaw Man - Chapter 210

https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1024680
4.0k Upvotes

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596

u/Arima_Kishou Jul 29 '25

Fujimoto: "I know writers who use subtext and they're all cowards" Definitely one of the most insane chapters in a while, you love to see it (and it makes sense too)

379

u/Zenith_Tempest Jul 29 '25

man fujimoto could have a character look at the reader and say "the usa's obsession with starting conflict and inflicting pain will end the world one day" and people would still say "it's just a story there's no underlying message"

96

u/Pollomonteros Jul 29 '25

I can see it, like there are people that genuinely think that One Piece isn't political

91

u/Anzereke Jul 29 '25

What? No, Oda just accidentally made a heroic revolutionary figure themed after real revolutionaries and with an army of trans folk fighting beside them. It was all an accident.

39

u/Substantial_Pick6897 Jul 29 '25

People keep saying he made a whole arc about racism and I'm like, wdym? It's just funny fish people trying to punch the straw hats! How can it be about racism when they're funny fish people?

-8

u/catalacks Jul 30 '25

Oda literally makes fun of transgender all the time. The character you're referencing (Morley) is a big joke. Oda literally—literally—intends for you to laugh at him for thinking he's a cute girl, when he's a fat, giant, hairy man.

8

u/Anzereke Jul 30 '25

Out of interest, does imagining that this is true make you feel like less of a weirdo for being obsessed with trans people?

0

u/catalacks Jul 30 '25

I'm not the one who brought up transgenderism in One Piece.

1

u/ohoni Jul 30 '25

I think One Piece is broadly political, but I don't think it gets too specific in accusing real world countries or people of anything. The politics of One Piece are fairly unique to it.

-32

u/catalacks Jul 29 '25

One Piece does not support your politics in any way, shape, or form and actively goes against them in most ways.

21

u/Anzereke Jul 29 '25

How do you know what this guy's politics are?

-28

u/catalacks Jul 29 '25

Because 100% of the people who say

One Piece is political.

are /r/leftypiece types.

9

u/Anzereke Jul 30 '25

Man, you're so close to a realisation there.

38

u/Testosteronomicon Jul 29 '25 edited Jul 29 '25

I'm sure it supports your politics instead, dude who:

One Piece's politics aren't the most revolutionary thing because it's meant for kids, but one kind of politics it definitely isn't supporting is those of nazis. Which you are. Do the rest of us a favour and follow your leader.

19

u/Zenith_Tempest Jul 29 '25

and this is why i say subtext isn't enough for these kinds of people lol, there is nothing they can glean from stories like One Piece or CSM because they go "wow cool pictures" and don't actually read. if they did they'd understand core themes and political ideas in them. though it's moreso that they don't want to admit they're the kindof people these mangaka are actively mocking and caricaturing.

13

u/mosenpai Jul 29 '25

I think poor media literacy is a prerequisite for people like him. Better to deny themes contradicting your worldview then to confront them.

3

u/Zenith_Tempest Jul 29 '25

Honestly? Yeah, you're right. I've seen them trying to make the term "media literacy" the new boogeyman phrase to try and discredit people who actually want to use their brains.

6

u/Testosteronomicon Jul 29 '25

Ironically an argument for more subtext. You aren't gonna reach these ghouls, might as well write for an audience who can handle it.

2

u/OddlyOddLucidDreamer Aug 01 '25

If bigots had media literacy and the necesary skills for critical thinking, they wouldn't be bigots

2

u/YokuzaWay Sep 03 '25

i went on asmongold subreddit literally saw a post wit a thousand upvotes of a white people segregating themselves from black people and comments fully supporting it

-7

u/Magnus-Artifex Jul 29 '25

be Zionist

be Nazi

Oh surely the guys who killed 6 million Jews also want them to have a state for themselves nothing contradictory here

Not gonna start on the rest

4

u/AlwaysTheStraightMan Jul 30 '25

Do you really think Jews were the only ones in those concentration camps? Fully Aryan, blonde hair, and blue eyes weren't Adolf's "things I look for in a guy", he really told people that's the ideal person in the eyes of God

1

u/Magnus-Artifex Jul 30 '25

I never implied that. Stop assuming I don’t know.

3

u/Gurlllllllll- Jul 30 '25

The entire Israel colonialist project started because antisemites wanted to move Jewish people out of their country. This isn't a controversial take, there are letters from the people who started the Zionist political movement saying this. Zionists also conflate Israel with all Jews because, surprise, they're fucking fascists.

3

u/ohoni Jul 30 '25

It's weird, right? But it happens. There's this whole cluster of people who just want Israel to exist because they think it will speed up the apocalypse, and that this will somehow work out well for them.

-64

u/CommitteeofMountains Jul 29 '25

It's a pretty weird take, though, given that it's obviously most directly referencing a conflict Japan started and America simply ended.

90

u/Mrestrepo011 Jul 29 '25

Simply ended lmao, that type of comment is why the manga has people cheering while the bombs drop.

9

u/SimoneNonvelodico Jul 29 '25

I really think that 6 years of conquering and genociding while being allied with another bunch of fascists who conquer and genocide sort of take away most of your moral high ground. Like sure, the nukes were harsh, but in the balance of things they didn't kill more people than some normal bombings did. WW2 was an insane waste of life on all fronts for an unconscionable amount of time all sacrificed on the altar of the ambition of some of the most evil bastards to ever live and I don't feel like judging too harshly those who made the utilitarian call to simply end it as soon as possible by any means necessary, especially given that nukes were still new and relatively poorly understood.

It's not the US' proudest moment but far from unjustified or even in the top ten worst things done during that war.

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '25 edited Jul 30 '25

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5

u/SimoneNonvelodico Jul 30 '25

One, if we're being purely legalistic, in 1945 mass killing of civilians via strategic bombing wasn't classified as a war crime yet. It came about exactly because of WW2.

On the other hand, if we want to discuss it in light of modern rules, then the atomic bombs don't particularly stand out for number of casualties. The firebombing of Tokyo or the bombing of Dresden had similar impacts if I recall correctly. What made the atomic bombs impressive was that it was all done just with a single bomb whose strange effects were scary and unknown, and that was probably what pushed Japan to surrender (along with the fact that the USSR was beating them on the mainland, likely). So in that sense, at least the atomic bombs did accomplish the goal of demoralising the enemy that the other strategic bombings were nominally pursuing but never quite achieved.

If we decided its fine to destroy nations for past and current atrocities

It's a bit different when you're in a war right now. Also the Soviets doing that would have been ridiculous since the Soviets were at war with Japan too and if their actions on the Eastern front in Europe are anything to go by, I really doubt they had a lot of qualms against war crimes. And Japan... wasn't destroyed? If anything, as a nation, Japan was the only Axis power that came out of the war without even extensive regime change; it was allowed to keep its emperor. Both Italy and Germany changed way more dramatically (though in Italy's case that happened more organically during the war and then after without as much foreign intervention).

Again, it's hard to weigh and judge all these actions to me. They are, in isolation, atrocities. But they are atrocities lost in a sea of other atrocities and at that point I am at least willing to concede the utilitarian point that atrocities whose effect is to end all the other atrocities are a bit less evil. I do not expect people to have sound moral judgement and robust commitment to deontological rules no matter what after 6 years of the worst butchery in the history of mankind. And again, the worst of the worst of that butchery came from Germany and Japan, who started that war, and who were doggedly pursuing it to the bitter end. Japan even was explicitly preparing itself to be a fully militarised nation in view of the invasion, to have every civilian be effectively a combatant, and it already had a habit of having its combatants committing perfidy (fake surrender) so that they wouldn't be afforded any other options than victory or death... an invasion wouldn't have just cost more US lives, it would have cost more Japanese lives, now only technically not civilians any more.

-25

u/CommitteeofMountains Jul 29 '25

Japan was building an empire on brutality, such that America's big change was making the violence domestic for the Japanese. 

50

u/Mrestrepo011 Jul 29 '25

The United States IS an empire built on violence

10

u/Testosteronomicon Jul 29 '25

Those people would have a panic attack if they ever found out what was the main inspiration for The Holocaust lmao

1

u/Arenavil Aug 04 '25

Oh did you fall for the conspiracy theory that the Nazi's learned from Jim Crow? That makes sense given your lack of education

-25

u/Arenavil Jul 29 '25

/r/im14andthisisdeep

The United States has made many mistakes throughout it's history. Nuking Japan was not one of them

2

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '25

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1

u/Arenavil Aug 04 '25

Honestly don't really care about your uneducated opinion on the matter. Japan were the bad guys in WW2 and I am glad we nuked them

-1

u/FormerFly Jul 29 '25

The amount of people who don't realize dropping the atomic bomb at the time was a better option than a full scale invasion of japan is wild.

Yes it would have been preferable if it never got to that point, but Japan really didn't want to surrender.

2

u/Arenavil Jul 29 '25

It's kind of crazy how Japan started a massive war and then acts like we're the bad guys, and Japanese people just eat up the propaganda. It's like if people in the US still thought we were the good guys when we went to Vietnam

-1

u/weliveintrashytimes Jul 29 '25

I kinda see it like a last of us part 2 situation(me when my only knowledge of the real world is games)

15

u/kopikopikopikopikopi Jul 29 '25

oh the irony. lmao

102

u/Zenith_Tempest Jul 29 '25

the idea that something as dangerous as nukes were "erased" by chainsaw man only for america to be so obsessed with hegemony over violence that they created them from scratch a second time is meant to be a representation of the modern USA. it is arguably the most powerful country, with an omnipresent gun culture and warmongering hawks constantly interfering in geopolitics they have forcefully injected themselves into.

yes, america ended the conflict in the 40s that they originally had no intention of joining until they were attacked. but in the post cold war era america has done more conflict starting, destabilizing of various countries across the world and causing turmoil as a result. america has been mucking up the middle east for basically half a century at this point, for example.

-28

u/CommitteeofMountains Jul 29 '25

I'm trying to think of a conflict America started since the collapse of the Soviet Union besides Iraq (which wasn't great, but was also a regional conflict in comparison to Russian and Chinese expansionism). Who has it even destabilized? Assad?

56

u/apexodoggo Jul 29 '25

America has actively funded multiple genocides in places like Bangladesh, Indonesia, and East Timor. America has destabilized pretty much every Latin American country at this point at least once. America dropped more bombs on Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos than any other country in human history combined. America directly caused the Vietnam War by throwing out the results of the reunification referendum. America propped up a dictatorship in South Korea similarly to prevent Korean reunification (this was prior to the Kims taking power). America propped up more dictatorships in South Korea after the Korean War. America helped assassinate the President of the Republic of Congo, destabilizing that country. America funded Wahhabi Islam across the Middle East to prevent Baathists from taking power. America interfered into all sorts of domestic politics across the globe during the 20th century, from Italy to Japan.

You’d have to be willfully ignorant to act the America’s been some kind of pacifistic saint since WW2.

31

u/makita_man Jul 29 '25

You have to think harder, then, Jesus Christ

47

u/Dizzy-By-Degrees Jul 29 '25 edited Jul 29 '25

 besides Iraq 

Having to ignore the Iraq War and then also delete Vietnam from canon to make this point is crazy, dude. 

-8

u/CommitteeofMountains Jul 29 '25

I wasn't the one who picked post Cold War as the standard.

25

u/Dizzy-By-Degrees Jul 29 '25

Having to ignore the past 34 years to make this point is crazy, dude.

-4

u/Vizceral_ Jul 29 '25

The world has changed in 34 years, actually

-20

u/catalacks Jul 29 '25

Nope. The era of "American hegemony" as you put it is the most peaceful in human history, precisely because America is not the imperialist nation that literally every other major power throughout history was, including Japan. Sorry if that upsets you, but facts don't care about your feelings.

26

u/Zenith_Tempest Jul 29 '25

you just hit me with the ben shapiro lmfao i genuinely cannot take you seriously

-7

u/catalacks Jul 29 '25

Funny, that's how I feel about you.

0

u/ohoni Jul 30 '25

Factually, you aren't wrong, the post-war period has only become increasingly peaceful over time, relative to what came before it. But what you need to understand is that it feels wrong to believe that fact.

1

u/catalacks Jul 30 '25

Funnily enough, it's less about America as the sole superpower and more about how nuclear weapons neutered major powers' ability to wage war against each other. The atomic bomb is one of the most hated inventions in human history, and it literally brought us world peace, or as close as we are ever going to get to it.

-24

u/Arenavil Jul 29 '25

meant to be a representation of the modern USA

Everyone is aware, it's just not a good one

geopolitics they have forcefully injected themselves into.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't. If we interfere we're imperialist. If we don't we are not upholding our responsibility as the global police

america has been mucking up the middle east for basically half a century at this point

Lol

30

u/Testosteronomicon Jul 29 '25

If we don't we are not upholding our responsibility as the global police

Oops said the quiet part out loud and the loud part quiet oh dear

-4

u/catalacks Jul 29 '25

lol no. Europe literally begs America to police the world, so they don't have to spend a dime on their military. The idea that America inserts itself where it isn't wanted is a meme with no basis in reality.

I mean, look at the Ukraine conflict: we're somehow expected to shoulder the whole thing, because the entirety of the EU is too weak to take on Russia.

-6

u/Arenavil Jul 29 '25 edited Jul 29 '25

That's not the quiet part lol. Everyone expects this from us. Europe cries everytime we think of closing a base, and many countries beg us for one, especially those that border Russia and China

Hell Biden was constantly flamed for not sending the military to stabilize Haiti

-16

u/NinjaOtter Jul 29 '25

and now foreign powers (israel, saudi arabia, russia, etc) blatantly have it's tendrils up america's elected officials assholes

the wars will continue until morale improves

12

u/CommitteeofMountains Jul 29 '25

It's funny how we keep catching American politicians taking Egyptian, Turkish, and Qatari money but somehow people keep insisting it's the Jews pulling the strings.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '25 edited Jul 30 '25

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2

u/CommitteeofMountains Jul 30 '25

There is not a single poll showing even an appreciable percentage of Jews disapproving of Israel, and when people keep insisting that the only country in the region that hasn't been caught bribing politicians is the one controlling the world with shekels, it's pretty obviously just antisemitic stereotypes.

-4

u/NinjaOtter Jul 29 '25

reading is difficult i understand

26

u/Tan11 Jul 29 '25

He's commenting on modern American imperialism much more than WWII specifically. They just bombed the Soviets in-universe after all.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '25

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1

u/Tan11 Jul 30 '25 edited Jul 30 '25

I mean maybe, but that is slightly shakier ground with how many war crimes everybody in WWII did to each other. The Geneva Conventions were established because of that war after all, so most war crimes weren't even well-defined at the time. Plus the fact that he had them bomb Soviet Russia in particular hearkens much more to the Cold War era.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '25 edited Jul 30 '25

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2

u/CommitteeofMountains Jul 30 '25

"Warmongering." Gazans invaded and conducted genocide in the Negev and continue to fire rockets into Israel indiscriminately. The nuclear bombings on Japan were for tactical and strategic purposes and targets against an opponent who, in contrast to your "unilateral" claim, had attacked with no provocation.

4

u/Testosteronomicon Jul 30 '25

Gazans invaded and conducted genocide

And there is is. I knew if we scratched you deep enough a genocidal fascist would bleed. Tell me more about how starving kids in a concentration camp is okay when you're Isntreal.

1

u/Arenavil Aug 04 '25

You seem to be projecting quite a bit, probably due to your lack of general intelligence. Hamas invaded Israel. Hamas and the Palestinian people want to wipe out the jews. Israel is a real country and isn't going anywhere. Hamas is the much larger problem here. You are the one defending theocratic fascists