r/marvelstudios • u/FafnirSnap_9428 • 6h ago
Discussion Road to Avengers Doomsday: Black Panther Wakanda Forever
This is one of those films that was caught in a precarious dilemma. The death of Chadwick Boseman really changed things up in the MCU. What do you do in the aftermath of the death of an iconic figure in a franchise? This film manages to weather that storm, although it does so a bit uneven at times.
The incorporation of grief and loss into the story of the film makes the film feel rather personal at times and obviously it resonates strongly. But it is also a bit uneven in its exploration of these themes. Very stop and go. Initially I was a bit iffy on the whole Talokan reimagining of Namor. But visually it works, though I do prefer that the Atlantis/Greek aesthetics were preserved as the themes could address mutants and other social/civil rights issues. Overall, I do prefer Namor as a villain over Killmonger. He was far more compelling. Angela Bassett really shines as Queen Ramonda. But that goes without saying because it’s Angela Bassett. Shuri has a clear character arc, albeit sloppy. I like that it echoes and resonates with Namor. I like the depiction of Wakanda actually being vulnerable and not some impregnable unstoppable superpower. The action was pretty good with the underwater sequences or any scenes involving the Talokans being really effective.
The movie is way too long. There’s no reason it should be almost 3 hours. Pacing fluctuates from fast to incredibly slow. The film is still distinct enough not to fall under my “set-up” movie category. But there’s still a lot of setup going on in this film. Riri Williams feels underwritten. She’s just there to be a part of the plot and almost feels like an accessory. Unnecessary CIA subplot that goes nowhere. There’s an unnecessary Killmonger cameo. Shuri and elements of her character arc are messy. Her decision to not kill Namor is very abrupt and sort of unearned as the whole film is leading toward vengeance and she changes her mind at the moment where the movie needs her to. Her becoming Black Panther happens very late in the film, she really isn’t Black Panther for a while. The synthetic heart shaped herb is also incredibly convenient and contrived. The CGI is a bit uneven at times. The final battle is frantic and weak from a story perspective. Side characters are underutilized and their stories raise more questions than answers (Ross, M’Baku, Okoye, Nakia). And lastly Ramonda’s death is very predictable. Writers need to understand that there are very effective ways of giving a character a complete journey and arc without killing them off.
Far from perfect. But also, for me, better than the first Black Panther.
Rating: 3.5/5
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u/redmerchant9 4h ago
What I appreciate about this movie is how mature it is. It's a serious story about loss and grief and it's not afraid to go dark at times. It's definitely way too long and it has some unnecessary characters (agent Ross) or underdeveloped characters (Ironheart, the Atlanteans) as well as some pacing issues (the final resolution of peace between Wakanda and Talokan). Regardless of that the movie is quite solid despite all the circumstances in which it was made.
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u/Intelligent-Bird8120 6h ago
I thought it was pretty good. My favourite character was definitely namor
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u/FafnirSnap_9428 5h ago
Namor was a show stealer for me. Can't wait to see what else he gets up to in the future.
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u/Mickeyjj27 Black Bolt 6h ago
I love Wakanda Forever, saw it multiple times in the theater. Wasn’t perfect but Black Panther wasn’t either. For everything they had going against it I felt Coogler and everyone did an amazing job.
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u/FafnirSnap_9428 5h ago
Agreed. Sometimes movies that have to grapple with a lead actors' death and other things just implode and collapse, but the cast and crew and everyone involved pulled through.
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u/N8CCRG Ghost 49m ago
What I wrote when I rewatched it last year:
Great –The costumes alone make this one of the best looking movies in the franchise. And the music is phenomenal. And the story is brilliant. And Shuri’s journey is so fitting and perfect. And we have one of the best villains too. If this could clean up some of the awkward American moments (Riri’s first flight chase scene, and pretty much every scene with Agent Ross) and if it didn’t have the (almost certainly COVID induced) mediocre moments in the finale, this would be in the Best category.
Expanding on Shuri there, I love that she is uncertain on if she will choose light or darkness, and I love that she sees Killmonger in her ancestral plain walk thingy. She actually ends up having a better arc than T'Challa got in his movie, which is a good thing for a sequel.
I'm so excited that Namor and his commanders are returning in Doomsday. I love that bridge fight.
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u/FafnirSnap_9428 43m ago
For me I think that Shuri's arc needed some more work. I get it, it makes sense. But I don't think the journey toward that decision to not choose vengeance is as tight and clear as it should be. But I agree, it's a stronger arc than T'Challa's.
I'm happy to see Namor and the Talokans back in Doomsday as well. Hopefully he will make things interesting.
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u/Its-a-pugs-life 6h ago
I agree although i do prefer the first film I as other than the cgi I like a lot of it but this film I had my expectations set a bit to high and I haven’t watched it since.
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u/FafnirSnap_9428 5h ago
Yeah, the big thing for me is that this one actually had some other things it was dealing with besides just story. Larger themes that were done better here, in my opinion, than in the first film.
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u/MillienumDuckFighter 4h ago
I thought this film was incredibly boring tbh, although I did love Namor and all the Aztec references. He carried the movie for me
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u/FafnirSnap_9428 4h ago
He's definitely one of the big highlights of the movie. Possibly the main one.
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u/Morose_Orens_Gaze 6h ago
An all time trailer. Have I not given everyyything?