Hello everyone! I’m looking for some perspective from people who have experienced both Berlin and Melbourne. My partner (a Kiwi) and I are considering a move to Melbourne to be closer to his family and culture, but I have some hesitations as a long-time European resident. The Context • Current Location: Berlin • The Goal: We want a calmer, cleaner, more family-oriented environment.
Why we’re leaning towards Melbourne: • Language: Honestly? Ready to never speak German again! • Nature: I’m a certified diver and crave proximity to the ocean/nature. • Home Ownership: It feels impossible in Berlin; we’re hoping for better long-term prospects in Aus.
My Main Concerns (The "Berlin Safety Net" vs. Australia): 1. Job Security & Rights: In Germany, after 6 months on an unlimited contract, you are very protected. I’m used to 25–30 days of vacation and 6 weeks of paid sick leave. How does the Australian "Fair Work" system compare? Is it as "unstable" as it feels from afar? 2. The Social Leap (Neurodiversity): I am Autistic (Level 1). It took me a long time to find "my people" in Berlin’s unique social scene. Is Melbourne welcoming to neurodivergent folks? Is the "friendship culture" easy to break into? 3. The Blind Move: Due to flight prices, there’s a chance we’d move without a scouting trip. Is Melbourne a "safe bet" for someone who has only ever lived in Europe (Spain & Germany)? I’d love to hear from anyone who has made this specific jump. How does the "vibe" compare? Do you miss the European social safety net, or is the quality of life in Victoria worth the trade-off? Thanks in advance!
Like others said already, employee and renter rights in Melbourne and whole Australia are poor compared to Berlin.
Healthcare is better in Australia but the waiting times can be long, like anywhere else.
Victoria has about the same amount of public holidays but Australians only get 20 days of annual leave and 10 days of sick leave / carers leave. Germany usually gives 30 days of annual leave.
Daycares are much worse in Australia. Public transport is okay if you live along the tram lines, but Berlin is a clear winner here. All Australian cities are very car dependent.
Berlin is more densely populated while smaller than Melbourne. Berlin feels much bigger.
Both cities have plenty of arts, culture, and food & drink experiences to explore.
Melbourne inner city suburbs are equally covered in tags and graffiti as most of central parts of Berlin. Places like Fitzroy and Prenzlauer Berg feel very similar, and equally expensive.
Melbourne is safer. While places like St Kilda, Richmond and Footscray have dodgy pockets, they aren’t really comparable to the worst parts of Berlin. And Melbourne doesn’t have Marzahn or Hellersdorf full of AfD supporters.
Berlin has way more interesting and colourful (and sad) history. Museums in both cities are great!
Berlin is well connected to anywhere in Europe even when their airport isn’t really a central hub like Frankfurt or Munich. Melbourne is far away from everything.
Home ownership needs a couple hundred thousand dollars in savings so it’s not achievable easily. Many younger generations really struggle with it. You can easily rent the same apartment for the rest of your life in Berlin and never get kicked out, but it’s not really possible in Australia.
Weather is better in Melbourne. Summers are similar but Berlin is significantly colder in other seasons. Berlin has proper insulation though so it’s warm inside. Typical early 1900s buildings in Berlin are much better than anything ever built in Australia.
I'm from Ireland. I find i feel colder in winters in Melbourne than I ever did in Ireland. Every building is poorly insulated, if the heating isn't on full blast you feel the chill. You could have heating on and still cold if sitting near an external wall/window.
Yeah I’m a Melburnian who spent a few years in Newcastle (United, not Jets) before coming back here. Northern winters are easier to deal with when at home than Melburnian winters.
I’ve lived in both and sure if you’re going from one random outer suburb to another in Berlin it’s easier than Melbourne but inner Melbourne is pretty connected. I’ve never owned a car here, in Berlin I would just bike everywhere and one positive Melbourne has on Berlin is being able to order an Uber/Didi lol
Regarding the history bit - Australia has the oldest continuous culture on the entire planet. If you think our past isn't interesting, colourful, and deeply sad, you haven't looked hard enough. Berlin has obviously experienced a lot and can certainly hold it's own in the "history of huge significance" stakes, but I get really bored of people talking about European vs Australian history as if our history started with Federation or even colonisation. Our history is so interesting and complex and incredibly unique, and I think that deserves to be recognised more than it is.
And on a completely unrelated side not, I'm of a younger generation and was able to buy a place a couple of years ago with less than $40k in savings. And that covered not only my deposit but all costs associated with purchasing a home. We utilised the first home owners scheme to only have to pay a 5% deposit with no LMI, but other than that had no additional government funding. I'm not saying it's not difficult - saving even that much money with the stagflation that's going on is hard, and I certainly couldn't have done it on a single income. But it's nowhere near the region of "a couple of hundred thousand".
I did, to make up the difference between what the bank was willing to lend and the $750k purchase price. And that was with the Victorian Homebuyer's fund also contributing $200k. Now that fund no longer exists, so good luck future generations.
I once worked with a German who was in Melbourne because he had a nasty divorce, and simply picked the place furthest on the globe from her. He was quite happy here.
I moved to Melbourne sight unseen as well via London and New York. Not as cheap as I expected, but we have made a life here. Wonderful place to raise kids.
Not sure what career path you are wanting to take, but there are very few NGO jobs for a graduate of applied psychology that has no relevant work experience.
You can’t work as a psychologist, you will be competing for jobs with a wide range of TAFE and uni graduates (mental health, peer work, community services, community development, sociology, social work work, psychology, criminology).
You will likely need to start with a low paying entry level job and even that will be hard to secure.
I’m not concerned with this at the moment, I have relevant work experience and my bachelors is just a cherry on top of that. I can always keep working in tech until I find something that’s more fulfilling for me.
The issue you’ll find is having work experience and a bachelor doesn’t mean a lot once you’re looking for a job. Those who are in active university courses (bachelors and upper) get internships and placement at many companies in many industries (even if it’s not the industry they are studying for) and that’s how they get the positions before others.
The system works off who you know instead of what you know and the graduates are collecting names and building relationships for years.
You’ll want to rub shoulders a lot to push the graduates down the list.
Berlin home ownership and rentals are way better than Melbourne, by a long shot. There renters protections but nothing at all like Berlin. Long term renting is not really a guaranteed thing. Property prices in good livable areas are very high.
Job security is good in Australia and Australia does have strong workers protection. 6 weeks sick leave is uniquely European and you won’t find that here - more like 10 days. If you are underperforming or taking too much time off, expect to be fired after a number of warnings. It’s not like Germany where it’s a nightmare to remove an employee. It’s a fair balance, between employer and employee.
Expect longer hours and less respect for your outside of work time. The culture of leaving your work entirely behind when you leave is not common outside of Europe.
Melbourne does have a lot of Neurospicy folks - try hanging out at Fortress if you like boardgames or video games, there’s fun alternative nights if that’s your vibe, etc.
Public transport is fine or completely shit depending where you live. Taking an S-Bahn or U-Bahn everywhere is not really a thing in Melbourne. Inner Melbourne has trams, but isn’t affordable. You have to choose your suburb carefully, they vary wildly, and can be the most boring dull developments, or vibrant and full of life.
Everything is open Sundays.
Make sure you can actually move here with working rights, Australias immigration is difficult.
Social benefits have a waiting period after you get PR, usually 4 years. This is a long time, and not at all like Berlin. You will be eligible for some degree of medical care, but it is expected you take our private health insurance immediately.
Healthcare is way way better than Berlin/Germany, how any of you are still alive is amazing. You can actually see a doctor when you’re sick, wild!
Hahahahaha yeah I have a complex and tedious relationship with German doctors and in general the German healthcare system. We’re very lucky and would of course take insurance from day one. We would ideally own a home there (seems more affordable than berlin from what I’ve seen online), as we know rentals are not long term. Although I must say, that yes, berlin has strong rentals rights buuuut more and more they’re kicking people out anyways, to rent it for more or sell it to investors 😭😭 atm there’s only 11 properties available that would meet our criteria (which isn’t that many it’s mostly space) whether in Melbourne in seems there’s much more offer…
Currently we live in a townhouse next to Friedrichshain and Neukölln with a small garden, pay heaps of rent and it’s just one bedroom and living room. Ideally we’d move somewhere there that is quiet but close to lively neighborhoods, and green! Would love to have 3 bedrooms since we’d like to have a kid eventually, and would love a small garden again, although if there’s a park nearby that works too, for our Doggo. And budget wise I guess nothing over 500k in Eur, which I’m not sure what’s the equivalent in Australian dollars but it’s definitely impossible to find in berlin 😭😅
Also if you have a dog and are planning to move them look up Australian Biosecurity laws. They are VERY strict and dog will have to be in quarantine at a facility for a number of weeks.
By my count, your $500k Euro is about Au$800-850k, which puts you on the lowest rung of 3 bedroom Inner City apartments - but were it me, I'd be looking at the higher end of the 2 bedroom apartments in the Inner Suburbs, which gives a lot of options. Here's a few I'd be looking at, just to give you an idea & without explaining why.
Just also remember that ANYTHING involving property purchasing involves compromise, but this is just to show you some Start Point options.
Within Melbourne CBD & restored by one of Melbourne most renowned architects.
South Melbourne - a converted office block, now a massively oversized apartment surrounded by parks & public transport (5 minutes from Melbourne CBD)
Brunswick is a very lively Inner North suburb - watch the vid.
Wow these are simply beautiful and exactly what we’d get before having kids! Thank you so much for putting in the effort, I’m saving this to my personal board and sharing it with my partner asap! 🤩🤩🤩 we could simply not get anything like this in berlin. I’m stunned.
More than welcome, & as said, it's all about options & compromise.
Because you responded so well, I'd also include oversized 1 bedroom Inner City options which are not just the top rung of the 1 bedrooms, but are also the size of 2 bedroom (or larger!). Like this in Prahran & this beauty in Brunswick .
If you want to contact me about apartment options closer to when you're either visiting or looking, don't hesitate to DM me.
People in Melbourne tend to forget about the western suburbs when talking about where to live, but in terms of housing affordability it's easily the best bang for your buck! Your money will go much further here than any other inner city region.
Somewhere like West Footscray would meet your criteria and I reckon getting a 2-3 bedroom place for your budget would be very doable. We bought a 2bd unit for around $600k a year or two ago, and that was in a market that wasn't great for buyers. Needed less than $40k to cover the deposit and all other associated costs (conveyancing, building inspection, etc). West Footscray itself is a lovely suburb with lots of green space, a huge dog park and genuinely one of the best communities I've ever lived in. It has small town everyone knows each other and looks out for each other vibes, but it's also only 10-15 minutes by train into the CBD. It has its own shopping strip with cafes, restaurants and bars and if you want a more lively atmosphere Footscray is just down the road. Best Vietnamese and Ethiopian food in Melbourne, hands down. Great bars and pubs. Pride of our Footscray and Mamma Chen's are where you wanna look for neurodivergent (and queer) friendly events. Also Chestnut Tree in West Footscray. Lots of fun arts and culture stuff happening too - theatre, comedy, art galleries, music festivals, food festivals, street parties and community events. People who haven't visited Footscray in 30 years will tell you that it's run down and scary, but honestly as a young woman I've walked around at night and I so rarely feel unsafe.
In terms of leave entitlements in Melbourne/Australia in general - there are standard leave entitlements which are not as great as many European countries, but if you go somewhere with a strong EBA or work in a field that has a good award you can get pretty lucky. I have reproductive leave, health and wellbeing leave, chronic illness leave and cultural and ceremonial leave, all of which adds about 15-20 days to my leave pool, plus we have additional annual leave. I also can salary package my income so I pay reduced taxes and have incredibly flexible working hours and great work/life balance. Obviously that's not standard, and if you're looking in the corporate world you might not get a lot of that, but public service or NFPs will often offer a lot of perks to try to attract and retain staff.
In saying this if you’re willing to live in an apartment, you will be comfortable with this budget in most good areas especially inner city fun vibrant suburbs that will allow you to experience the best sides of Melbourne living.
You could always purchase well out once you are established, maybe have a family (or not!), but there are major lifestyle changes - and with your own unique challenges, this is best done once you have a good base of friends and a good network. It would be extremely isolating to move out into far suburbia right away.
Lol you must be joking. Do a search on realestate.com. location is everything here. You could easily get that if you can go a bit further out like nunawading
Yeah inner Melbourne is just overflowing with sub 750k homes…
If you want to live somewhere that’s not completely isolating that is.
You can’t really move from a lively cosmopolitan European hamlet into the most basic, dull, family, monotonous suburbs. Especially if you’re neurodiverse and a foreigner - who are they going to meet? How will they get around?
It’s like saying to a Berliner “have you tried living in Brandenburg? It’s cheaper” or “live in Poland and catch the train into Berlin”
It’s not fair or realistic to tell people that they can afford to buy in a similar style of living area if they can’t.
Are you willing to make that an apartment/ townhouse in inner North (neurospicy friendly, and a very easy transition from Berlin)? E.g. Brunswick, Coburg, Thornbury, Northcote? Preston, Reservoir?
Something to note: most houses in Aus are sold at auction (it's terrible!) and usually for quite a bit more than the price advertised on e.g. RealEstate.com.au etc. My personal choice was to look for a private sale (i.e. no auction) so I knew how much I'd have to pay - but that reduced the options available. You could also look at prices for new apartments if you want an accurate guide (I think they are often wildly over priced though).
Cycle and tram, no car is doable there.
Glenroy might get you a 2.5 or 3 bed home with garden in that price bracket but more difficult without a car.
Some aspects of life can be more affordable in Melbourne than Germany but not sure for how long that will last. But note alcohol is A LOT more expensive.
Thank you for this! We will most likely first move somewhere small and to an apartment during the first months/year until we scout and check potential areas for our dog and family :) we will definitely live in a suburb and would be happy to do so if it’s green and natural is around. We’re outdoorsy people and since my partner has some friends there, and we will have kids, I’m sure we will feel less isolated than “normal” expats, if that makes sense.
Seen you mention the dog twice. Importing pets is a very expensive process. Flight/transport then a month of quarantine. Start budgeting 7-10K in euro for a small dog.
Cool, yes take your time. The differences between inner vs outer suburbs in Melbourne (social mix, demographics, progressive vs conservative) will be different from Berlin so worth navigating carefully!
Try Belgrave. It is right at the end of the train line, and about the last place you might possibly find something in your budget. It's green, and there's loads happening. It's excellent for families. It's very hilly and not near the sea though.
Edit to add: Plenty of neurospicy.
For 500K euros you could absolutely get a decent three-bed townhouse, just not in a cool ‘hood like your current setup. Or you could get a cheaper two-bed apartment close to CBD (but don’t get a modern one because their strata fees are terrible). Renting generally sucks (high cost, poor quality housing and shit landlords), but you’ll need to for at least a year to decide whether you like the lifestyle. Main challenge for you as a Berliner is the remoteness of Melbourne. You can’t just jump on a train or a bus and be in a new country in a few hours. But if you take the plunge you’ll find Melbourne is a clean, welcoming city (if increasingly expensive) with a scene for all types. There’s plenty going on and great stuff within a two-hour drive of the city for nature-lovers. If you’re persistent and personable, you’ll find work. The weather is slammed by people in other Aussie cities but actually it’s very decent, a ton friendlier than Berlin.
Once you're out of your early 20s, it's hard to make friends in almost any city. People aren't looking for friends at that point - they have families, and they already have a group of friends. Most city-focused subreddits have posts saying "why is it so hard to make friends here?". It's also why expats make friends with other expats more easily.
Job Security
Job security is fine. It's not French levels of safety (nothing is), but in general it's fine.
Housing security... is something we've heard of? Some sort of European mythical thing? Either you own/mortgage your own home, or you live in a succession of 6/12-month rental contracts, never knowing when you're going to get your marching orders. Renters have very weak rights in this country, and politically they are valued somewhere between pond slime and stepped-in doggy-do.
Is Melbourne a "safe bet" for someone who has only ever lived in Europe (Spain & Germany)?
Melbourne is the 'most European' of Australian cities... but that being said, there's really not that much difference between them - you won't see the differences between our cities that you would between yours. Melbourne is the most left-wing of the cities, so if you're into progressive politics, it should suit as your target for Australia. If you're into conservative politics, maybe Ipswich will be more your thing.
> Renters have very weak rights in this country,
imo we don't overall have the worst rights situation, certainly its nothing compared to the US. Victoria has made some strides recently and we have quite decent rights for renters. The issue is the rental market is so fucked people will waive their rights/not stand up for them because doing so puts your housing access at risk. Rights, become not quite irrelevant, but certainly weakened if someone is willing to be spat on by an REA for the same price.
Once you're out of your early 20s, it's hard to make friends in almost any city. People aren't looking for friends at that point - they have families, and they already have a group of friends. Most city-focused subreddits have posts saying "why is it so hard to make friends here?". It's also why expats make friends with other expats more easily.
True, but this goes away once you have kids. You meet way more people than you can handle through school.
Renters have very weak rights in this country
This isn't true any more. Laws have improved multiple times over the last decade, and are now acceptably close to German standards.
German renters can't be tossed out on what is effectively a whim like we can here. Renters there are secure enough in their tenancies that they can and do renovate their properties.
Meanwhile here we get things like "renters can now put up picture hooks without asking first" while landlords get "can force renters to pay to get the landlord's business professionally cleaned". What other business can the owners force the customers to organise and pay for third-party cleaners?
From 2021, for new leases, if you are told it was professionally cleaned before you moved in, you're required to have it professionally cleaned on exit and have to eat the cost
Re: no auto termination on initial lease end and no "landlord just feels like it" termination on month to month, that's something significant for renters (finally). November last year it came in, apparently
Thank you so much! Yes, thought that through kids but also my partner has many of his New Zealand friends living there, so I guess we’d make friends through his circle as well!
Good to know! Funny enough, we already have recommendation letters since in Germany it’s obligatory to give these to the tenants when they move out lol 😅😅 love a paper in this country
Can't really talk about Berlin vs Melbourne, as I'm from Hamburg.
Been in Melbourne for 18 years now and it definitely hasn't developed into a better place over that time!
Corruption on council, state and federal level, organised crime running rampant, crazy inflation, shortage of affordable housing, huge influx of people willing to take jobs at lower level of pay, mentally ill people crowding inner city and CBD, horrible traffic, (currently) very cheap- but not everywhere accessible- public transport, high interest rates (national), a lot of undereducated people, economy consists mostly of mono- or duopolies trying to push smaller businesses out of the market, declining food quality, media with a corporate agenda...could carry on but let's stop here.
Positives, weather (most of the time), fresh air, a few handpicked stores that sell other products than your supermarket crap, diverse markets with amazing and cheap offerings, parks/greenery, beach accessibility, still fairly cheap fuel, if you are into sports, there is plenty to do and look at (at a price $$$) and if you pick the right suburb and rconsume the "right" media, you can live in a "happy bubble" not noticing a few of the cons before it is too late ;)
I would consider other parts of the world and I don't necessarily agree with the statements that Europe isn't stable at the moment.
There are plenty of other places in Europe and the world - if you wanna be closer to NZ, SE Asia for example.
Fair take. I’d agree, Melbourne’s golden age of liveability is long gone. Curious how you’ve managed to stick it out this long? Are there any Western cities that have actually improved in the last 18 years?
Yeah, I reckon Genoa, Bordeaux, Marseille, Bern and Dresden have (despite the tourists and the political situation in their respective countries) improved over the last 20 years in the way of (perceived) liveability, infrastructure, tidiness, accessibility and the general feel of when you walk through the streets. Granted, some of those cities, improvements weren't hard ;).
Housing is much much more affordable where you are. Job market and housing prices is a deadly combo in Melb. You also need to consider you’ll be starting out with no connections here, so finding work will be tough.
I have two family members in their late twenties who tried to get work in Melbourne without a lot of connections. One (data scientist with experience)moved from Perth, spent over 12 months looking, had no success, gave up, got a great government job in Perth and moved back there. The other (chemistry PhD) is still looking after 15 months. They’re both lucky that they could afford to job hunt for that long.
Also have friends in tech/IT facing layoffs atm so it feels like everyone is job-hunting. We are in a recession, it’s only getting worse. Sorry to be a dampener on this. NGO work is also very low pay, starting out you’ll be on 65k a year if you’re lucky to secure a full time job.
Maybe try to get jobs here before you make the move, since visa is a quick one for you. Otherwise you’ll need a good safety buffer while you look for work.
With housing, city fringe and inner city would be well above 1.2mil for a 3 bedroom. To afford a 3 bedroom with a garden you would both need to be earning 130k+, have savings of 200k for a deposit. If you don’t mind living quite far, you might find something nice around 800k 50min drive out, which is where I am. Public transport can’t compare to Berlin, so it takes me 1.5 hours to bus and train into the city.
But Melbourne city fringe suburb is not the same as a Berlin fringe suburb where you’ll still find culture lol.
Finding community is whole other ball game. I don’t have german cities to compare to but from my experiences out of London, Antwerp, Shanghai, Melbourne by far is the most cliquey. People are in their set circles by 21. I have plenty of hobbies so I’ve found it ok making friends, but so many I know have struggled. People are friendly and polite, that’s as far as it goes. It takes time! You’ll end up friends mostly with other expats but that’s expected. Definitely look up cliquey Melbourne on reddit and form your own opinion.
If you’re determined, come for a holiday and talk to as many people as possible on your trip. Good luck!
Thank you! We do have friends living there already from the New Zealand side :) and we would ofc get jobs before moving there, and already have savings for a house from the past 7 years 😪 as the market is tough anywhere atm…
I did this exact move with my partner. I haven’t lived on both places long enough so that’s 1 caveat.
I would say Berlin has better transportation and much better benefits e.g. number of leaves and unlimited sick leave. Layoffs are more common in AU and less protected than Berlin for sure. Traveling outside of ANZ will eat your leaves because a round trip would take at least ~10 hours 1 way which is going to make the small number of leaves feel even smaller. Beaches are a bit further out in Melbourne and will require you a car (no deutsche bahn to go to places 🥲) but plenty of nature around.
The great part about Melbourne. I love the culture and it’s so easy to talk to everyone in English. Everyone is incredibly friendly very different from the more reserved personalities I encountered in Berlin and the thing I love the most very little red tape! I’ve done most things online. Rarely do I need to have things in writing and mailed. I find the food scene is more varied which I enjoy. I’ve loved living here but my partner prefers Europe still so you might see things differently.
Thank you so much! Yes… have heard the transportation system isn’t that great. We still rent cars in Berlin to do roadtrips though, so I guess in that case we’d do the same or own a car (?). I looove Europe but I’d also like to live in an English speaking and friendly environment for once, and Spain is out of the questions since jobs there are terribly paid…
Inner city melbourne is doable without a car mostly. Middle to outer burbs are mostly miserable other than some small pockets without one. You could live right next to a middle/outer suburbs train station and basically do everything in your life in the inner city or near another station on the same train line, that is possible but you basically don't "live" in your actual area if you do that.
I think he just really likes how easy it is to travel around and also growing up in New Zealand everything here is just awesome for him to experience. For me it’s just completely normal stuff as I just grew up around it 😅😅 guess the grass is greener on the other side really applies to our case
Europe has always been my partner's dream place to live. Asking her, she says the top reasons are ease of travel, work-life balance, and fear of not being laid off (for someone working in tech). Friendliness matters less since she's quite reserved and doesn't like small talk unlike me haha.
Haha fair enough! I totally get her - it’s my dream place to live also. In saying this it’s been a while since I have been there so I’m keen to get back there and check it out now to see how it feels. When did you live there?
Totally get this, I think it’s definitely a matter of preferences and honestly what you can afford as a partnership and the lifestyle you want to have. We’re also a bit sick of berlin because there’s not much nature around (no ocean, no mountains, nothing other than parks), and other European cities are just not a match to what Australia could offer us.
Berlin to Melbourne will contrast significantly. Australian Fair Work offers less unlimited protection than Germany. While the city is inclusive in a lot of ways, the social scene is notoriously cliquey, making hobby-based groups like diving your best bet for finding community.
Most importantly, how are you actually planning on moving here and what visas have you explored? Permanent migration isn't particularly easy or affordable.
My partner is from New Zealand, we’re getting married this June :) I’d either get a partner visa or a workers visa, we both work in tech, so this shouldn’t be the biggest issue.
Quite a lot of people form their friendship groups in their late teens/early twenties, like in uni or at first jobs, and are not really interested in expanding them or making new friends.
I'm not the person you asked, but social circles tend to be formed in school/university and follow class boundaries. If you grew up in Victoria and meet someone new one of the first questions you get asked is "which school did you go to?" so the person asking can quickly know if you're someone useful (upper class, private school attendee) or someone to be looked down upon (working class, public school). One of the other questions you'd get asked is "where do you live/where did you grow up?" which also gives people a quick idea of if you're a bogan (working class) or a snob (middle to upper class).
Many WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestants) will consider all other ethnicities to be beneath them, which is a legacy from our squatter history and the White Australia Policy, and within each ethnic group there will be people who act like snobs and try to act better than folks from their group who are working class or have less education achievements or who haven't "assimilated" into the white dominated Australian culture.
I'm a first second generation kid of two migrant parents and my partner migrated here from Spain at age 10 and we've both noticed these aspects of life in Melbourne.
Think of Australia as a big country with a very small-town attitude. There's a phrase "Tall Poppy Syndrome" you should ask your partner to explain, or google it, there's a wikipedia entry. Having a lot of success or celebrating good news can make people dislike you due to cultural attitudes of distrust and competition.
A partner visa for New Zealand isn't going to give you working rights in Australia. His ability to work and live in Australia is based on him holding NZ citizenship, this won't extend to you on a partner visa. What is a workers visa? A working holiday visa for 2 years with the hopes of finding an employer to sponsor you? Tech in Melbourne isn't currently an easy market.
there is a "spouse of NZ citizen" visa that gives full working rights, that would probably be better for OP as then they don't have to convince an employer to help them with their visa
I haven't seen people really talk about this as much in the answers but the weather in Melbourne although typically joked about as being pretty bad and changeable can be brutal at times. Our building codes aren't great so things like double glazed windows aren't common, especially in older more affordable places so it will get very cold in winter and brutally hot in summer. Probably worth taking at least one holiday here first in the warmer months just to make sure it is what you want.
Regarding affordability with housing, although it is a very low bar to clear Melbourne is somehow becoming one of the more affordable cities in the country, and compared to elsewhere in Aus we do have more rental protections, although as everyone has pointed out it is far behind Europe.
Does your partner hold australian citizenship? I would look into sort out the visa situation. While nzers can live here it still comes with limitations like no access to certain gov support or limited. If partners apply under a nz family relationship visa, it still isnt ideal depending on situation as it is also a temporary visa.
Will you be bringing your dog over? I would also allow time and prep for bringing dog over.
The Goal: Yes Melbourne has this
• Our Background: Yes there is job
• Language: Yes
• Nature: Yes lots of local diving spots but you will want to visit interstate for 'bigger and better' dives
• Home Ownership: It sucks here. You can probably get something but you might not like it.
• Career: Don't know
My Main Concerns
1. Job Security & Rights: It sucks compared to Germany but nowhere as bad as US. Most businesses (even small family ones) follow/model US corporate culture though (bad)
2. The Social Leap (Neurodiversity): Friendships are hard to break into with local Aussies. Your best bet is with fellow migrants or hobby/interest groups.
3. The Blind Move: I'm not a migrant myself but my workplace is full of them (over 50%). All but one have found their groove and are enjoying the "vibe" here. The beauty of Melbourne (and much of Australia) is that you're free to do your own thing and don't have to conform to pre established nonsense. Well except for your partner's family and culture xD. The scouting trip likely won't expose you to the daily grind of life here (everything is fun as a tourist). However given that you're never left Europe ever you should definitely do it.
A significant difference is housing. Unless you can afford to buy, the protections offered as a renter in Berlin are completely stripped from you here in Australia.
Melbourne and the inner northern suburbs are closest to Berlin in regards to vibrant, diverse and inclusive communities. From my personal experience.
what's your native language? are you spanish? as far as european expat/descendent communities here go I wouldn't be surprised if the spanish one is pretty small - but it doesn't sound like that's a big concern for you.
job security and worker's rights/benefits are not as good, but not terrible - it looks like once you're married you would be able to get a visa that would allow you to live and work here without your job sponsoring you which will help but I wouldn't be surprised if you can't find a job until you are physically here. I would be trying to find some people working in the industries both of you are targeting in melbourne and asking their candid opinion about the state of the industry and how hard/easy it is for people without australian work experience to break in, it may be harder than you think. also, make sure both of your qualifications are usable here, I imagine software engineering is reasonably universal but european applied psych/NGO related qualifications might not be.
renter protections are not as good, but not terrible - although landlords and real estate agents will either doubt your ability to pay rent or expect to be able to take advantage of you as newcomers. the housing market is not cheap but you being used to living in apartments and densely populated urban areas will mean some options locals might turn our noses up at would be totally normal/appealing for you.
I'm also autistic (never been given a level, I think probably level one too, but not able to work full time), I've lived here all my life, nearly 30, and I have no local friends. the few I did have as an adult I immediately lost contact with when I left university (I think that's a pretty common autistic experience though and not really a melbourne thing). all my friends are, ironically, online friends in other countries. I don't really know if there is a good community of autistic adults here and how welcoming it is but I imagine it's probably pretty interests-based, the autistic locals I did know were all met through my uni's queer students club. I hear the friendship culture here is hard to break into as an outsider in general but in some ways being autistic might actually make that easier if you can find the groups in the first place. your partner will probably have a bit more of an "in" with local NZers and aussies tend to see NZers as less outsiders than people from elsewhere so that may help you both.
Hey! I lived in Berlin for 6 years and then moved to Melbourne and have been here for about 8 years now, just bought a townhouse so have some perspective.
Personally I am happy with the move and find Melbourne a more balanced city overall. Better work/pay, easier to integrate as it’s very multicultural. yes houses are very expensive but Berlin house prices really seems to have gone nuts since I left.
I can’t speak to the difference between Berlin and Melbourne, but as a diver, I can say that diving around Melbourne can be a bit rough. Port Phillip bay is cold, and often has far less sea life than Bass Straight (whose waters are choppy and often dangerous).
Your mileage may vary, but for me, diving here is not worth the time and cost, and so I only dive when I’m on holiday now.
I think your experience will be influenced by the area you choose, and from your budget indications, I would recommend looking at an inner suburb and a smaller home to begin your new life. Melbourne is a fantastic city, but most of what makes it special is in the inner suburbs. Outer suburban Melbourne might feel very dull and isolating to a European used to living in a more stimulating environment. Inner Melbourne will feel just as dynamic and diverse as anywhere in Berlin, but is equally (if not more) expensive. 500k euros buys you a two bedroom apartment, not a house. But that’s fine, especially if you’re living in Fitzroy or Collingwood or Prahran. You can always move later, once you’ve done some exploring and know what you want.
I've not lived in Berlin but I know Melbourne. It is sprawling and there are very different cultures in different areas of it. I have no doubt you can find your people here, but you will have to look in the right places.
Oh also I know you said you are ready to never speak German again, but my partner speaks German and is always super keen to have other people to talk to, so if you desperate enough when you get here feel free to message me 😂
(also happy to just point you to some good nd friendly meetups etc)
The only thing I'll say is that I don't think Melbourne is the best for diving (but their are options) at the end of the day I have nfi if Melbourne is right for you, but I think it's worth the move to find out. Worst case you are closer to other ANZ cities, and super worst case you can move back, but at least you'll know
Have you applied yet? They can take 12 months or longer to get. And I don't know the pros and cons of applying for one when your partner isn't an AU citizen (but is a NZ citizen).
My friends from Berlin ultimately went home because of the terrible rental conditions here. Where you live is a huge factor in happiness. In Australia you will have expensive rent for no space and get kicked out of every place after 6-12 months. You can't paint, decorate, put holes in the wall to hang anything substantial up or generally do anything to a place to make it yours. Insulation is non-existent here and you will be freezing.
I don't want to put you off and I love living in Australia but unless you can buy a place definitely do some research into rental rights and quality here
Prepare yourself for a very right-wing vibe, which many locals don't seem to recognise. Think Tulsa, Oklahoma - it's all about cars and sport. You have to learn to count to ten and breathe deeply when people tell you how "European" it is, so your head does not explode. Bad public transport, hatred of bike lanes, incredible tolerance for neo-Nazi marches ... the "left-wing" state government is tearing down public housing. I could go on!
One thing I haven't seen a lot of people speak about is the nature element. As far as natural beauty and swimmable beaches go, somewhere like Sydney would definitely have the upper hand, no question. Melbourne isn't reeeeally a coastal city in the same way a lot of other capital cities are. The bay beaches are serviceable if you're not keen on waves. My partner always says that Melbourne beaches aren't great for swimming, they're more for drinking next to, which I think is a fairly accurate summary. That being said, St Kilda Pier seems to be nicer now with it's revamp, and Jawbone Marine Sanctuary in Williamstown is a hidden gem for snorkelling/diving and swimming. It's also not too hard to go a bit further afield for better beaches. Down the Mornington Peninsula or around Geelong towards Ocean Grove. Both are about an hour from central Melb if you drive and Geelong has decent public transport links from the city if you don't. Rye Pier and Portsea Pier are popular dive sites. For other forms of nature you've got the Dandenongs about an hour out for rainforests, Warrandyte is good for a cycle/walk and a river swim. Out west the You Yangs are surprisingly close and Lerderderg State Park is good for walks and (occasionally, if the rain has come through) some waterhole swimming. Melbourne definitely lends itself more to river and waterhole swimming than beaches/reefs/dive sites, but if you're willing to travel a bit you can find something.
Melbourne is a "top of the class" Western Capital city.
There are rules and regulations in place, but short term contracts are often available in better roles, essentially "filling the gap". I would aim for full time positions, as Aussie corporate is agile, prone to change and almost always considers the bottom line, first and foremost.
Melbourne is very inclusive - mental health is a priority, and being on the spectrum is something encountered often, and spoken about liberally, and considerately.
You should really check it out first - it's a wonderful place, but the constant shifting weather changes can result in health problems (I love it here, but it constantly triggers my sinusitis)
Thank you so much! Hahahaha yeah have heard about the weather! I grew up on a subtropical island as well, and somehow expect the changing weather. Used to always have a cardigan and wind jacked on my school backpack 😅😅
Yes, I’d love to visit first and will definitely try next year to budget for it. Might just be hard due to the current wars and airline prices (and accommodation is suuuuper expensive 😭)
As someone who is currently living in Czech Republic and have lived in Melbourne 10 years ago(but currently have family there)
We are also moving around November. Europe is extremely unstable right now. Home ownership is non existent.
To answer some of your questions:
1)From what I heard and saw with me own eyes, it’s extremely difficult to lose your job in Australia and I say that as someone who has been busting his ass in Europe - employers are very very well protected.
2)I am a person with clinical depression, agoraphobia and anxiety disorder, I’ve never felt safer than when I used to live in Melbourne. Melbourne is very good to psychological health care and from what I’ve seen social services are very good!
My brother, back in 2010, was attending a “school” for special people and I used to follow him around, the care they received was very touching. It made me want to work in that sector as well! I believe you’ll be more than welcome :)
3) In short - yes. Melbourne is the most non-European, European city. Inner Melbourne is very similar to UK and outer Melbourne reminds me of US cities. In terms of Berlin, imagine a more green, CLEAN city, full of life, full of events and as soon as you step outside, you can find comfort in quietness.
If you are to live outside of inner suburbs, you definitely need a car. If you live inner suburbs, public transport is more than good. Compared to Germany.
Bottom line: Moving from Berlin to Melbourne, I’d say you should do it. The jump is very scary (we are literally doing this right now ourselves - and we also have a dog!) but I believe it’s worth it. You’ll find it difficult the first few months and it will be quite stressful. I have been researching for the move as well as asking my family in Melbourne for various things, so feel free to DM me!
From what I heard and saw with me own eyes, it’s extremely difficult to lose your job in Australia and I say that as someone who has been busting his ass in Europe - employers are very very well protected.
This is not correct of Australia at all.
The tech industry here has had over 3 years of mass redundancies, many people have been laid off, and before that during covid many people in other industries lost their jobs during the downturn. The economy right now is threatening a recession so expect continued layoffs.
A lot of tech companies are following the lead of American startup culture, some have a PIP culture, some of these redundancies weren’t true redundancies, they were choices by leadership to cut staff even though the companies had plenty of work to be done, companies were profitable, etc.
While australia has more protection than the US, in practice a company can label something a “redundancy/restructure”, do associated paperwork, and fire people with little warning. Often it is a “clear your desk” situation and paid 4 weeks in lieu of notice.
Employees who have been with the company less than a year don’t get any additional compensation, and after that it is scaled based on time with the company (however many people have not had stability of being in a company long term).
And the first 6 months of employment is commonly “probation”, where you can be let go during this time without any real reason.
There has also been an increase in casualisation/contract work rather than permanent/ongoing jobs, so professions that were once considered stable are less so now. (There are published statistics tracking this trend).
Social work may be an industry that has less layoffs, however it tends to be poorly paid and lots of people get burned out. There is plenty of demand for psychologists (who do get paid well), however that would require OP to do further study.
Thank you for the reply and my apologies for not replying myself in such in depth detail as you.
But things are not better in EU in tech industry either. I work as a PM for one of the biggest telecommunication services in the world and we went from 750.000 personnel to 330.000 within 3 years, with the target being 200.000 by EOY. I think that speaks volumes on how things are.
The same thing that apply in Australia, also apply here in EU, such as probation, parental/maternal leave, sick days etc with some minor changes that depend from country to country, for example in Czech Republic, you are allowed up 3 paid sick days - then it’s up to the company you work for, for any benefits (my company has 60% salary up to 3 months of sick leave, while my wife has 2 weeks of 80% and nothing more), in Poland, from colleagues that they are located there, it used to be 100% for up to 2 weeks - I am unsure right now how things are, but you get my point.
The difference is, in Australia, the salaries at least good. Working in corporate in Europe usually means that the parent company is located elsewhere and you get paid peanuts compared to the people where the company is located. For example, same position, same company as me, the PM that is located where the company is from, gets paid about x4 my yearly salary.
I can’t agree and vouch more for this point 🙃 we both work in tech and wow it has taken so many hits in the past years. We really just want to at least be able to buy a house 😭
This is it. Me and my wife are high earners for Czech Republic (95.000 czk per month) and every house that is remotely good costs 15.000.000 czk.
My brother and his wife who live in Melbourne and have similar jobs to ours, make 10.000 aud per month. The difference is massive, if you consider that the same house here in Czechia costs the same money in Australia.
I’ve been researching this for about 2 years on a weekly basis and while we have made our decision to move (we are in the process of doing all the paperwork), I am still checking everything almost daily because I am stressed and it just makes sense!
I don’t doubt the tech industry has been shit just about everywhere in recent years, I was just pointing out you were incorrect to say it was extremely difficult to lose your job in Australia. When locals have been laid off, and many are looking for work, it makes the plight of an immigrant even harder to find work.
The comparison being asked is of Berlin versus Melbourne. I have not lived in Berlin but had friends who lived in Australia (we were in Sydney at the time) and then chose to move to Berlin because the government support was much better in Germany when raising children and cost of living. We visited them and they had a nice home, young kids could easily navigate public transport to get themselves to and from school (at an age I still needed to support my child in australia to get to school), good schooling options, and they mentioned specifically how much better the parental support was (first child was born in australia and second child born in germany), so my understanding is that Germany has better social services than australia.
When you talk of salaries you have to compare to cost of living, and also realise that Australian dollars aren’t worth as much as euros or USD or British pounds.
In particular housing here has a shortage and there is not really any rent control or government intervention to keep costs affordable, so it is market driven. Often people from overseas are surprised by this. To view a property you will have to turn up at a time that is often not convenient, there will be a large queue of people, only have 15-30mins to look, you have to be quick to submit your application however it is not “first offer”, they will compare all applicants and make a decision based on what the landlord wants (which can be biased). On average tenants move every two years in australia (not sure of Melbourne stats). The rent is increased every year. When buying property it often goes to auction so you have to be willing to pay more than others, and sale price is often much higher than the advertised price range.
“Affordable” housing is often defined as not spending more than 30% of your salary on housing, yet many people are paying more than this. This our housing is not affordable.
Inflation is Europe is so high right now that I can literally afford a house in Melbourne with my savings (7 years savings) and I can barely pay the deposit here in EU.
I can probably buy an old farm somewhere in Mediterranean though in the middle of nowhere.
Usually between 15-20% it really depends on the country… I’m on the same boat we’re a double income household and can’t pay a down payment for a mortgage in berlin, totally different story for Melbourne 🙃🙃
Since Covid the house prices went absolutely nuts. In Czech Republic (Brno and Prague) the median salary is about 35.000 czk (2300 aud) monthly while housing costs pretty much the same as in Melbourne.
In fairness I never say Czech Republic as a high earning capacity place. But yes I guess I would have expected property prices would be lower. How are people surviving there if this is the case? Is it all people coming into the market from America etc that have driven things up?
And what about other places such as Spain Germany etc.
My husband brought his dog over from Europe, it takes about 6 months (of planning) and cost just under 10k so make sure to factor that in and start planning early - I think one of the tests you require needs to be done around 6 months before they travel. Then they’ll have 10 days of quarantine once they arrive here (which is part of the cost… it all adds up, but worth it!).
I just want to add re the comment above about it being “extremely difficult to lose your job in Australia” - this is definitely not true, in fact it’s quite the opposite. Just so you are aware.
Additionally, it’s great you have experience in the tech sector as that’ll be much easier to get into initially. I studied Forensic Psychology in NZ and worked in prison there as a behavioural therapist, but I still needed to do an additional year of study here to practice - and I would imagine NZ is closer to AU in terms of practices/standards than Europe - so you may need to double check your degree will translate easily to get into social work. Just a heads up to be aware of 😊
Thank you! Yes, definitely worth it, I checked and it shouldn’t be that hard as Germany is part of Group 3. The cost is ofc something planned for, but also she’s a small dog and can fly in cabin, so it might also be a little bit cheaper than cargo in that sense.
I’m not planning on working as any kind of psychologist, I’m mostly looking for project management or coordination work but outside tech, although might stay in tech at the beginning until we get established.
Awesome! Enjoy Melbourne! It’s a very friendly city. There’s an app called Butter that’s a good place to meet and join different groups to meet new people when you get here 😊
just don't move to the outer suburbs of Melbourne and you will love it. But you should also do some reseach on the area that you want to move to as north, south, east and west inner Melbourne all have their own vibe.
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u/SmellyNinjaWarrior May 06 '26
I have lived in both.
Like others said already, employee and renter rights in Melbourne and whole Australia are poor compared to Berlin.
Healthcare is better in Australia but the waiting times can be long, like anywhere else.
Victoria has about the same amount of public holidays but Australians only get 20 days of annual leave and 10 days of sick leave / carers leave. Germany usually gives 30 days of annual leave.
Daycares are much worse in Australia. Public transport is okay if you live along the tram lines, but Berlin is a clear winner here. All Australian cities are very car dependent.
Berlin is more densely populated while smaller than Melbourne. Berlin feels much bigger.
Both cities have plenty of arts, culture, and food & drink experiences to explore.
Melbourne inner city suburbs are equally covered in tags and graffiti as most of central parts of Berlin. Places like Fitzroy and Prenzlauer Berg feel very similar, and equally expensive.
Melbourne is safer. While places like St Kilda, Richmond and Footscray have dodgy pockets, they aren’t really comparable to the worst parts of Berlin. And Melbourne doesn’t have Marzahn or Hellersdorf full of AfD supporters.
Berlin has way more interesting and colourful (and sad) history. Museums in both cities are great!
Berlin is well connected to anywhere in Europe even when their airport isn’t really a central hub like Frankfurt or Munich. Melbourne is far away from everything.
Home ownership needs a couple hundred thousand dollars in savings so it’s not achievable easily. Many younger generations really struggle with it. You can easily rent the same apartment for the rest of your life in Berlin and never get kicked out, but it’s not really possible in Australia.
Weather is better in Melbourne. Summers are similar but Berlin is significantly colder in other seasons. Berlin has proper insulation though so it’s warm inside. Typical early 1900s buildings in Berlin are much better than anything ever built in Australia.