Agree on the history of Wagner but tf, you are romanticising Ukrainian Nazis as simply anti-Russian warriors only? There were records of fatal attacks against Romanis, Jews, and non-white people committed by them during WWII and in the modern era. That's not to mention they house the worst of Russian nazis, especially Nkitin.
And Nazis are Nazis. Racism (including antisemitism) and anti-liberalism are the core of their ideologies. The only difference is what nation they serve. If there's Rusich and RIM of Russia, there's RVC (or RDC), GVC, Azov, and a bunch more. Both led by the sickest humans possible (Rusich is a puppy-eating maniac, and RVC is a football hooligan who also targets immigrants).
I’m not talking about ww2 Ukrainian nationalists. I mean the modern day azov. They primarily adopted the anti Russian views of the ww2 Nazis. Not so much the antisemitic ones
You know what those views are? That Russians are sub human and should be exterminated? Is that supposed to be a defense of them 😭😭
Like bro I support any nation fighting back against someone trying to annex them, but you can both support them and also criticize the fascist para militaries taking part in the war on both sides as well?
Like the more you ignore them, the more you make excuses for it and act like they’re actually wholesome, jusr a little patriotic, the more you give propaganda fuel to Russia to justify the war. Those “anti Russian views” you glossed over included literally going village to village and raping and executing everybody, women children, literally everyone. You can’t just fucking gloss over that bro like what the hell 😭😭😭
But Azov is not the only though... they are just the biggest. The RVC (RDC) is the significant other, provided that their leader is among the most notorious neo-Nazis not just in Russia and Ukraine (yes, he is Russian), but in the whole Europe. Another member was also the host of the largest Nazi music festival (of course based in Ukraine). In fact he came to Ukraine because he opposes the "migration policies" of Putin, instead wants an ethnostate. That makes Putin sound like a great president when compared to him, so you can understand how terrible he is (You can read more about his horrible ideas and quotes, just read his Wikipedia)
And that wording is just off. Of course everyone will think that you are romanticising them reading those words...
Azov is higly professional unit and it's good place to serve in. Azov has such a high reputation in Ukraine that chief Rabbi of Kyiv recorded a video congratulating them on their birthday. And until recently they were taking orders from an enthic Russian.
This is not "I have a black friend". This is reality. There are no complaints from any Jews in Ukraine about Azov. None.
By definition nazism must be antisemitic. It's a core belief of the ideology. Saying modern nazis aren't necessary antisemitic is like saying modern communists aren't about planned economy.
They have so many weapons and troops they could start ethnic cleansing if they were nazis, but in reality they are tolerant. They allow people of all ethnicities to serve with them as equals.
They had a political party before the war and their policies are publicly known. There were none nazi elements in it. When the invasion started they all went straight to the front completely abandoning peacetime politics as every serious nationalist should.
Azov leader wants an alliance with Poland, Czechia, Belarus, Slovakia and Baltic states. But that probably won't work out so he'll settle on EU. Because that's the best bet on our safety and prosperity.
You know you can support Ukraine in defending its sovereignty but not blatantly lie to defend a fascist paramilitary originization. People like you literally give Russia free propaganda to use lol.
Like you could’ve said “oh they were fascist and Nazis before but not anymore!” But nah you said there was never and is no fascist or neo Nazi element or members at all. Like literally in the guardian article one of the first thing the Azov guy says is that Putin is a Jew 😭😭
Like dude, why do you have to blatantly lie? Again, you are literally serving Russia by trying to cover this up, and giving them propaganda to use, when WESTERN MEDIA also acknowledges that hey actually there are some fascist and we shouldn’t just ignore that, even if the “denazifying” claims from Russia are obviously insane and a lie, considering they also have fascist elements in their military.
But yeah okay, can you please provide proof that western media was 100% lying and Azov is actually wholesome chungus not fascist, just extra patriotic or whatever?
Why is it people can never have any nuance like Jesus Christ, you can support a country while also acknowledging small parts of its military or paramilitaries are fascist???? But nah if you support Ukraine actually you have to 100% support everything and lie about things that we 100% know are true (that Azov at least was filled with fascists, I haven’t seen an article interviewing their current membership, but I also imagine they were told by the top guys to shut up after those articles came out and to pretend to not be fascist, so it’s easier for people like you to pretend actually there was never any far right part of it at all)
I'm a Ukrainian army officer with friends in Azov. I know Ukrainian politics much better than some foreign 12 year old article. You may he surprised. But a lot has changed since then. Half if not most of people mentioned in 2014 article are dead. Neither article about 2014 Ukraine nor 2014 Russia gives anyone relevant and useful information. Both countries are unrecognizable.
All nationalists who wanted to get into Ukrainian politicians since 2014 lost. The dreaded Svoboda party lost most of the seats and kept 1 out of 450. I haven't heard about them for years. The most Russian propaganda hyped nationalist groups called Right Sector ceased to exist. You have no idea how much resources Russians spend to create an impression those people were in charge. By 2022 they were simply gone.
Like you could've said "oh they were fascist and Nazis before but not anymore!" But nah
Every single thing I said is a verifiable fact. Argue with me, not with a strawman like "there never were nazi members in Azov" because there were.
I clearly said what it IS now.
Modern Azov is not a tiny volunteer group comprised of nationalist and football hooligans which it was in 2014. It's a big army unit (actually two, they split) comprised of regular mobilized people like me serving an ethnic Russian and an ethnic Jew while allowing all ethnicities to serve with them as equals. Judging someone by their actions is the best way to judge someone.
You did zero research about modern Azov. You didn't see all the foreigners in it but you're ready to call me a liar.
Do you want to read their pre-war political program?
Do you need a link to Chief Rabbi of Kyiv saying they're are great people?
Do you need a link to Pew Research Center research which shows how Hungary, Poland and others are much more intolerant to Jews than Ukraine?
Do you need links to articles about hate crimes in EU? Attacks on Jews, vandalized mosques then to he surprised nothing similar happened in Ukraine?
Do you want to search for crimes associated with modern Azov to find out they are exemplary in their disciplines and cause no problem to anyone?
Do you need a link to an interview of Azov leader who says that Ukraine's future is in EU but he wishes he could create a separate alliance with people like us from other Eastern European countries like Poland?
A nazi who wants Ukraine subjugated to the most liberal political entity on the planet, huh.
Stop being a condescending prick, stop lecturing a person who Russia claims is a victim of Azov's ethnic cleansing and learn.
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u/crimsonhn 5d ago edited 5d ago
Agree on the history of Wagner but tf, you are romanticising Ukrainian Nazis as simply anti-Russian warriors only? There were records of fatal attacks against Romanis, Jews, and non-white people committed by them during WWII and in the modern era. That's not to mention they house the worst of Russian nazis, especially Nkitin.
And Nazis are Nazis. Racism (including antisemitism) and anti-liberalism are the core of their ideologies. The only difference is what nation they serve. If there's Rusich and RIM of Russia, there's RVC (or RDC), GVC, Azov, and a bunch more. Both led by the sickest humans possible (Rusich is a puppy-eating maniac, and RVC is a football hooligan who also targets immigrants).