r/newbrunswickcanada • u/bingun • 1d ago
N.B. Power says 10 data centre projects have applications to connect to electrical system
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-nb-power-data-centres-9.738257452
u/JaneDoe-182 1d ago
It’s a race to the bottom and we are footing the bill
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u/sj2k4 1d ago
Yesterday a guy from Black Rock warned of a recession if data centres get paused … because billionaires have so much invested in them. They aren’t for people. They’re for billionaires.
We need to stop this madness.
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u/FergusonTEA1950 1d ago
There's always a bust following the boom. Do we want to "invest" in something that has a good chance of ending up as yet another albatross around NB's neck?
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u/Stinky_TheCat 1d ago
The math behind the proposed Miramichi data center having 600 permanent jobs doesn't math.
I mean I have the feeling, based off evidence and studies done on other centers, that we will be helping foot the electrical bill even for one.
One is too many.
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u/krugferd 1d ago
I've read somewhere that claims of "permanent jobs" should be backed by a guarantee from the company, in the form of a paid first bond or some type of credit, where if they don't materialize these jobs, or keep them around for X time, that bond is cashed and used to support the community.
This came up as part of another datacenter somewhere in the states, and the discussions was surrounding "what do we do with these when this bubble bursts."
What does the Miramichi, or, really, anywhere deal with these many football field sized warehouses in communities that have no need for them. What do they do with them when that company leaves? How does the Miramichi clean up, or remediate that area? With what money?
With many companies seeing a "get rich quick" opportunity... I feel that, with most things in the end-game capitalist world, the taxpayers will be left holding the bag after the rich exit with their money. And our politicians will all say "how could we have known that this would happen?" and no one is held accountable.
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u/Jonnyflash80 1d ago
I can pretty much guarantee that almost all those jobs would be remote workers and not located in New Brunswick.
Any job numbers that these datacenter companies quote is purely deceptive and not to be trusted.
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u/CriticalCanon 1d ago
Yup.
Most of this can all be managed remotely and when onsite support is needed, fly someone in or contract it to a third party.
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u/derdubb 1d ago
Or permanent jobs to build them, like trades etc
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u/KillerKian 1d ago
Those aren't permanent jobs
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u/derdubb 1d ago
Getting hired at a construction company full time is not a permanent job?
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u/KillerKian 16h ago
Maybe, but how is getting hired at a construction company a job created by a data center?
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u/Routine_Soup2022 1d ago
What's the math? I haven't seen the logic other than the 600 number. I'm interested to know what 600 people would be doing in a data center. This could be another job creator for New Brunswick. Someone needs to explain what 600 people would be doing.
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u/Zakluor 1d ago
600 "permanent" jobs will translate to a small percentage of that after construction is finished and whatever employment clause is met for whatever government funding they secure, such as a setup loan or a tax break of some kind. They won't need 600 employees.
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u/Routine_Soup2022 1d ago
It doesn't "feel" like a data center would need 600 employees and some of what you've said is likely correct. We have a complete absence of an explanation on that number, however. The announcement is pretty much skin deep.
My suspicions on data centers: They're absolutely necessary in the future economy. They probably won't create many long-term jobs, however. In the future, a lot of things won't need as many full-time employees. That's the bigger issue: What will people do when automation reduces the need for manual labour?
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u/ThrowRA_EducatedMan 1d ago
They’re creating plenty of jobs in semi-conductor factories in Taiwan. The jobs just will never be here. The “600” figure is absolute bullshit. It probably includes every job that will be in some way “supported” by the actual salaries paid at the data centre. Such as 15 people at Timmie’s is 15 jobs because a data centre employee gets a drive through coffee.
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u/Jodzilla 1d ago
There is a question period at the Kin Centre tonight with the group that presented the Data Center to the city council. I think there is two time slots. I'd go and ask your questions there since 600 permanent jobs is definitely sus af.
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u/Stinky_TheCat 1d ago
I will not be able to make it, but i am hopeful someone can ask and report back.
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u/OttawaDog 1d ago
600 is definitely a wild exaggeration.
A quick search shows a modern Data centers create between 1 and 2 permanent jobs/MW. Miramichi Data Center is proposed at 100 MW so between 100 and 200 jobs.
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u/LivingCorner1421 1d ago
what do you mean foot the bill? they will generate revenue by buying huge amount of power there wont be any bill to foot XD.
there is a data centre in grand falls they basically had to buy their own infrastructure to make sure no one else was on the same 3 phase feed as them. they did it. they had to run power lines for kilometers.
the data centres are coming wether we like it or not and its not a bad thing
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u/Prof_Stank 1d ago
BOT
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u/LivingCorner1421 1d ago
lol those bot are one hell of cop out for alot of you
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u/Stinky_TheCat 1d ago
I mean the fact that nearly all of these centers draw more power then they end up producing.
Have you been living under a rock? Have you not experienced oaying for other things because NB power doesn't know how to bill industry?
Also they are here. But the number being created is overkill.
Do some research.
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u/LivingCorner1421 1d ago
i know they draw more power than they generate thats the whole point its shit loads of revenue for NB power.
NB power knows how to bill haha we are one of the cheapest rate in canada behind the hydroelectric kings which is not fair since our grid is not hydroelectric XD
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u/Stinky_TheCat 1d ago
These centers have a very clear trend where the population ends up paying more to subsidize this awful industry.
Mountains and mountains of evidence.
So done with people like you who would rather just feel it out based off the limited info you know instead of spending 5 minutes reading a peer reviewed study and prevent yourself from talking out your ass
edit: youre commenting "fuck yeah" on other data center announcements.
If you aren't a bot, you are a sad ass weird little guy.
Get bent.
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u/LivingCorner1421 1d ago
hahahha im sure when you default to insults it must mean you have very good evidence that you are right....
"These centers have a very clear trend where the population ends up paying more to subsidize this awful industry."
what are you talking about ? this makes 0 sense at all there is nothing that proves this at all, NB power will make a killing in revenue from the data centres , there is no way the cost of electricity will go up BECAUSE of the data centre.... they have to pay for their power just like you and me......
they will most likely provide their own infrastructure to connect to the grid.
again because you ignored it again to fit your narative we have one of the cheapest power in canada...
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u/Stinky_TheCat 1d ago
Read something for once in your life you absolute fucking idiot.
Google "data center effects on consumer electricity rates" and there are thousands of articles like this with verified sources.
Also you are basing your "cheapest power in canada" claim is based off when Higgs was hiding an energy debt and now we have the biggest rate hikes in decades.
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u/LivingCorner1421 1d ago
even after the biggest rate hikes we are still the cheapest lol we could raise another 10% to be in the median for rates.
hahah consumer reports , sure.
yeah you are losing the argument thats why you need to throw the insults around.
those are articles lol its not a letter from the power companies that says hey because a data centre was built here we just randomly decided to increase the rates and bypass the energy boards which has to review our rate increase demand before it can come in effect for fun just because a new ai data centre got built.
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u/Stinky_TheCat 19h ago
You are plainly wrong and I refuse to continue engaging with aomebody not centered in reality.
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u/FrozenTire 16h ago
What evidence do you have?
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u/Stinky_TheCat 15h ago
Hundreds of peer reviewed studies and thousands of media case studies accessible through a simple search engine querie.
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u/FrozenTire 14h ago
Ok, So you don’t have any evidence. In your original post, you claimed to have evidence. I was just wondering what evidence YOU had specifically to share.
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u/Stinky_TheCat 11h ago
I've spent hundreds of hours reading the research. Sorry I can't be summed up in one link.
If you don't even want to do the base level self teaching, why should I waste any of my time on you.
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u/NES4K 1d ago edited 1d ago
wait. so 10 data-centre's, which are owned and operated by private business, will have remote application connection access to the NB Power grid?
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u/thegreentiger0484 1d ago
I hate this timeline... fucking up the nature and wildlife, putting the grid at risk, making the people pay
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u/XxCabinFeverxX 1d ago
I hate this timeline… fucking up the nature and wildlife, putting the grid at risk, making the people gay
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u/LadyNael 1d ago
If anyone thought our government gives a fuck about us this is a very clear sign they do not. Guess we can all starve when our power bills reach the thousands
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u/flipwitch 1d ago
I'm not in favour of them either, but an application is not an accepted proposal.
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u/amicuspiscator 19h ago
Yeah lets all stay calm and not say anything until the applications are all approved and then we can.... uh...
How about you just shut the fuck up if you have nothing of value to add?
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u/Specialist-Bee-9406 1d ago
Hope the government has some serious rules in place for locations and noise.
This seems to be forgotten amongst the concerns over-usage of utilities.
Arguably, more important than rates. 24/7/365 machine noise may drive you insane, and certainly will kill your ability to sell your house easily.
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u/JaneDoe-182 1d ago
The government doesn’t gaf lmao they are in total alignment with their billionaire puppet masters.
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u/Mundane_Object_1372 1d ago
The people need to say no, protest. This will not create jobs for anyone in NB. It is going to be an environmental disaster.
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u/lmaberley 1d ago
The whole concept of “ I’m going to use a shit- tonne of power and the rest of you are going to pay for it.” Still bewilders me to no end.
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u/Cool_Educator_4822 1d ago
these data centre companies are flooding the application process in every jurisdiction just to see who gives them the best deal. maybe they can offer NB something instead
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u/CastorTroy1 1d ago
NB needs a law stating data centers cannot be within a certain # of kilometers to any residence, they have to provide their own energy, generated in an approved manner, cannot suck the water out of the area, and a 50/50 profit split between the community and the data center. See how many applications we still get. 😏
Edited Can to cannot
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u/OttawaDog 1d ago
The data centers are establishing a history of lying and cheating on the environmental front.
Have them build out all the Solar and Wind, plus battery backup to support the operation before they build the Data Center.
Otherwise all this is, is outsourcing data center pollution to Canada, while American companies take the profits.
Stealing millions of gallons of water:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/data-center-drained-30-million-002000882.html
Installing 59 gas generators without permission:
Different company installing 62 generators wihtout permission:
https://futurism.com/future-society/data-center-operator-microsoft-new-jersey-generators-exhaust
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u/MixedMediaModok 1d ago
If people thought the power bill was high last year wait till we have 10 of these bad boys sucking up energy.
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u/DirectorLow5447 1d ago
If GNB and NB Power both agreed that data centres would pay more for power as to offset the need for increases to consumers, that would be worth looking into.
But we live in NB so the data centres will pay barely anything, take govt money, and then leave when they get a better offer somewhere else.
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u/Stinky_TheCat 1d ago
Shouldn't take a word NB power says at face value.
If they told the truth we wouldnt have high rates rn from the years of Higgs hiding an energy debt.
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u/DirectorLow5447 1d ago
10 competent people could run that entire org outside of linesman / tradespeople
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u/Equivalent-Dark-3580 1d ago
We not only have to make room on the electrical grid, we have to tolerate the noise, the invasion of privacy, suffer the environmental consequences,.... the impact of which will not go away or be hardly noticable. This has potential to be environmentally devastating. Not only all of these things, but goverment 'incentives' mean taxpayers are funding it.
I fail to see the benefit.
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u/ThrowRA_EducatedMan 1d ago
Why the heck is Post-Secondary Education, Training, and Labour writing the data centre development framework? WTAF. I mean, not that it would necessarily be any better written by others, but impact assessments are not handled by PETL. 🤣🤡
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u/DarthV506 1d ago
How many of those are American owned?
The only reason they would want to build here is cheap power. And cheaper politicians.
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u/Clustahhh 1d ago
Maybe those data centres should pay the increase in our rate that was just announced
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u/MutaitoSensei 1d ago
And there it is, we all knew they would have access to the power grid and make our bills go up.
I'll vote for the next provincial party that guarantees we're not getting an AI datacentre. If that's PC, then so be it.
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u/Mantabodyboarder 1d ago
Hey, but the blame for peak consumption is on those homes with solar systems, that should pay an extra charge. A multiplier based on a single peak over a limit, not consistent peak usage.
The reasoning behind: solar system homes have EV chargers that demand more on the network after sunset.
Yep, only EV chargers on solar systems, not the chargers on homes without solar systems, those never charge the vehicles in peak hours...
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/ABetterKamahl1234 1d ago
No idea how many jobs it'll actually create but it'll create some for sure.
A couple McDonalds tend to employ more people than data centres do, locally.
It's an incredibly inefficient way to obtain more jobs in a region, as the benefit is almost entirely foreign, not local for these things.
But we're going to see more negatives than positives, with AI data centres, power draw is pretty extreme compared to a typical one (of which we have many already). They're so power hungry that most on-site power plant designs aren't large enough to meet their needs, so they need external supply, often to the order of 50% of their need.
Only 50% being covered by a whole power plant means high rate increases for consumers off the grid to supply the remaining power demand.
This is ignoring the other impacts of these glorified heaters, as the majority of power draw is just directly converted into heat in electronics like these.
Locals won't get rich. They never do with these. And most that do get employed there are simply techs that need to move a few boxes around, but often the companies fly in vendors to do things.
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u/Anthropomorphic_Void 1d ago
Datacenters don't create many jobs. A few critical techs to manage onsite power failovers some HVAC jobs, a small number of network specialist and some basic security that's usually contracted out to low paying security contractors. The rest is managed remotely overseas. For the footprint that's not many jobs.
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u/cerberus_1 1d ago
During construction it'll keep a lot of people employed for a few years and pump millions into the local economy. After its finished, i agree it probably wont be more than a few dozen jobs permanently but its better than zero.
As long as we're not giving them tax breaks or worse, tax dollars. I dont have an issue with it. If they gotta build a new transmission line to power the fucking thing, thats fine too again as long as they're paying for it.
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u/ABetterKamahl1234 1d ago
During construction it'll keep a lot of people employed for a few years and pump millions into the local economy.
So would things like twinning our highways, building public housing, improving various infrastructure pieces.
All of those things would pump millions into the local economy.
And the province would actually benefit from it, unlike the AI data centres.
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u/Mundane_Object_1372 1d ago
They are an environmental disaster, take up space, pollute and consume clean water resources and give off constant noise. There is way more drawbacks than there are gains.
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u/union_fitter 1d ago
There is currently one being proposed for Miramichi. Explain how it will pollute the local water.
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u/Mundane_Object_1372 1d ago
My understanding is that they consume water for cooling purposes and in that consumption process some water is recycled back into the system as wastewater. It is no longer the clean fresh water it once was as it picks up various contaminants in the cooling process that are used in the centre. Minerals, heavy metals, chemicals, etc. are returned to the water system without being properly filtered therefore degrading the quality.
Over time and with the mass amounts of water they use this will have significant environmental ramifications.
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u/Stinky_TheCat 1d ago
You are so naive and like weird optimistic about the people who've brought us to the place we are as a society in 2026 will suddenly start doing right by us
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u/Stinky_TheCat 1d ago
Its not blind internet rage you fucking moron.
Plenty of folks discussing the multiple different issues with this.
But hey if you are so naive you can pay my power bill too.
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u/Sharktopotopus_Prime 1d ago
If these things go up, it will be the responsibility of any decent New Brunswickers to tear them down. Data centres are all a massive Trojan Horse for the billionaire class to control and manipulate us.
If politicians are approving these, those politicians need to lose their jobs and give way to people who will actually look out for Canadians, rather than rich assholes.
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u/MicIrish_At_work 1d ago
nothing like building the tools that will be used to control us. 100% of AI datacenters are used to extract more wealth from the consume, control public opinion or evade reprecussions.
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u/Mental_Run_1846 1d ago
zero ZERO government incentives should be offered. In fact, there should be premiums to set up anywhere. And make them find water-less cooling methods