He's definitely already played around with the idea of pardoning state crimes as well despite not actually having the power to do so. Wouldn't be the first time he did something he wasn't supposed to be able to do.
I can see it now, it gets appealed to SCOTUS and Alito says “on the clay tablets of Hammurabi it says Donald Trump can do this.”Somehow gets a 6-3 ruling.
could happen - but all these actions cause the political pendulum to swing even harder - at some point another Dem will get into the White House - members of scotus get replaced - or can be impeached - Epstein files can suddenly come to light - lots of things can change ..
I don’t think he’s going to live long enough to ever face having to pay any court losses. Maybe his estate will pay out long after his demise, but we’ll never get the satisfaction of seeing him beaten.
He perpetually feels like he is an abject loser. And he is one in every meaningful sense. He pays for it daily, hourly with a lived existence that only knows grievance and want, never gratified, never satisfied. He possibly deserves pity. He certainly craves love. He’ll not live to see it in a million years. He was beaten from day one. And you can’t take that away from him — as much as he would like you to.
Self pardons really have never been tested. Nixon could have done it otherwise. That said, I don't think Trump will ever be held accountable. My hope is that many of his enablers will.
My only hope is that when Trump is long dead and gone, and if America ever does discover some level of decency around his time in office, that his younger enablers, who still might be around, would be shunned for their shameful behavior.
But somehow I think this whole era will be rug swept.
They'll all be fine. They'll be commentators on Fox news et al, they'll do speaking engagements, they'll work at think tanks. They'll be fine. They're not some plebes who are scattered when their trucking firm or family restaurant goes belly-up.
Some people have said that they voted for Trump because they were on the left but felt that the left and the right were so similar that an authoritarian would wake people up and cause a snap back effect and lead to more progressive wins in response.
I find this view to be abhorrent because the people who make it are privileged enough to not feel the repercussions like, say, a child starving to death because of USAID cuts or an Iranian schoolgirl buried in rubble.
It does seem like they’ll get what they want though. I don’t hear a lot of Obama era “moving on” talk. It’s a lot more about accountability and repercussions in the discourse. The old democratic congress people are seen as a liability instead of experienced statesman.
I don’t think Trump will ever face justice but I do think this era will be remembered with shame and the people who helped enable it will be ostracized or pretend like they opposed it all along.
I hate thinking about the possibility so much I didn’t bring it up, but you’re right. There’s a non-zero chance that 2024 was the end of our representative democracy. But boy, us libs sure did get owned.
You give them too much credit. The people on the fence don't understand nuance or even what an authoritarian personality style is. They're easily manipulated morons that Trump's populist rhetoric works on. They're also authoritarian themselves, and seek to dominate out groups to make themselves feel superior.
All of the reasons that they tell people they voted for Trump because of are bullshit topical talking points. They have no self awareness, they just go for easy excuses for their inexcusable behavior.
It's the real American tradition. That and exploiting labor. Oh, and war. And dumping untested or inferior products to Africa. What else...racism...any ism really...football? I'm bored...oh, yeah, and apathy and selfishness hiding behind religious hypocracy.
I don’t think shunned is enough. They broke the law. For us to see any form of justice, we need our own Nuremberg trials to make sure these people pay for their crimes
Our political system is too frightened and unable to hold a president accountable. I stopped expecting it years ago. Nothing will happen to this man, and we won’t be rid of him until we read his obituary.
Trump not being held accountable won't be because of a lack of trying. It's simply time. He's on his way out health wise and isn't going to live long enough.
Pardons won't matter. The US can pass new laws to go after these people. That's essentially what the allies did at Nuremberg.
I would love it if he was. I can live with it if he isn’t, but my main issue is setting an example for those that come after him.
The next reprehensible asshole that gets voted in is bound to be smarter than Trump, and if that person knows there aren’t any consequences, we may be in for a worse time than we’re already in.
He may not be held accountable but Trump has admitted in interviews - maybe not intentionally - that he knows he won't be remembered for good reasons after he's gone which is why he's so desperate to stamp his name on things.
He may not face consequences but even long after he's gone he'll be a reviled and hated man and his ego can't stand that.
This brings up a great moral question of the lawless democrat president. Let’s say dems take over power, eventually 2028 we get a dem president and don pardons himself. Since Don set precedent, the dem president has every right to act illegally, ignore that illegal pardon and arrest and detain this current administration. “National security”, executive privilege, and such, then the lawless dem can just pardon themselves for all this.
I mean it’s insane to even think or want a lawless president, but Don broke the norms so it should be on the table. I would argue it could be the moral thing also. Which again, could be terrible for the country in the long run. But this guys is playing with powers he doesn’t even understand, and the rules are broken. What happens if that is used against him.
Not only should it be "on the table," it should be expected that the next dem uses that same level of power to set things right. see if the SCOTUS doesn't come to regret some of those unitary executive ideas.
Precednet doesn't matter?!1 Why do you guys think becasue the SC lets a republican president do these things they will just allow a dem to do the same? It ain't happening!!
interesting fantasy. Historically, Dems have ousted each other for bad behavior. Look at what happened to Al Franken. He made believe he sexually assaulted a sleeping woman. Didnt break any laws, wasn’t sued civilly. Yet, he had to go - the Dems pushed him out.
On the other hand, look at Senator David Vitter. He frequented prostitutes (a crime), wore diapers; but asked for forgiveness. The Republican gave it to him and all was forgotten by the party.
But hell, let’s just make believe both sides are the same.
What a silly comment. This sub is in decline. Yeah, the ”lawless” dem who writes excessive memos, reaches too far across the aisle, and apologizes too much. Where are you coming up with this?
There is zero established law regarding a President pardoning himself.
I seriously doubt even the Robert's Court 6 will let him get away with it. If they do a future President could get away with murdering anybody, including them.
Unfortunately, he can resign for health reasons and JD Vance can hand him a pardon.
I seriously doubt even the Robert's Court 6 will let him get away with it. If they do a future President could get away with murdering anybody, including them.
Really? This is the same court that ruled that a President is essentially immune from criminal prosecution for anything he does in office.
So as long as Trump claims everything he does is an official act he's covered. The judicial branch is fully captured, that argument will work without a doubt
They already agreed a President could get away with murder. The hypothetical used was a President ordering seal team 6 to assassinate a political rival and thesis Supreme Court agreed he could.
That is not technically what was decided. The Seal Team 6 proposition was raised primarily by the court's liberal justices to test the limits of the presidential immunity claim for all "official acts".
The Robert's Court is playing a stupid game I sincerely hope they win stupid prizes.
I mean, the limits of a presidential pardon aren't really defined beyond "only for federal charges." As insane as it is, I can honestly see the logic to interpret the Constitution as written as allowing it. This isn't to say it's okay, just something we definitely need to amend at some point.
Don't put anything past Roberts. Dude seems to think he's upholding the Constitution in his own mind, and then goes to court and undercuts it at every opportunity.
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u/HaroldGreenBandana 10h ago
He can pretty much pardon himself and anyone else whenever he wants.