r/preppers • u/Iced_Snail • Jun 26 '26
Question What’s the minimum number of acres needed for a family of 4 to comfortably survive.
If SHTF and you need to live off grid, in a perfect world how much land would you actually need to grow enough food for a family of 4 to survive in reasonable comfort?
Assuming a mix of arable and livestock; what 10 acres? More or less?
Edit: just to clarify - my wife wants to turn more of our back yard over to vegetable/fruit growing etc and it got me to wondering how much space would actually be needed if we needed to survive.
Based on these responses - sounds like I need a bigger yard!
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u/fenuxjde Jun 26 '26
Depends on so many factors like rainfall, soil quality, sun, temp, etc. General rule of thumb has always been n+1, so however many people in your family, that many acres plus one.
Water is the crucial element, as well as workability. If you have 5 people and all 5 can work, it's doable. If it's one guy working 5 acres to feed 4 invalids, people are gonna start dying real quick.
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Jun 26 '26
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u/Delgra 🥳 Jun 26 '26
A great way to highlight why the most important prep will always be our physical fitness level. Gotta carry water any distance? Good luck if you’re extremely out of shape.
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u/MakeITNetwork Jun 26 '26
I think the biggest factor (I think) is hospital access vs cost per acre.
You get hurt or get older and have health problems, having hospital 3 hours away or more, brings down your survival rate to almost 0 for any ambulatory problems. They call it the golden hour for a reason.
But if you have an acre or more, 1 hour or less to a hospital, prepare to be rich or to save up for longer than intended.
Now I think that there will be some that wouldn't care about it because they are invincible, or don't intend to live more than 10 more years, or there will be those who have half a mil sitting in their bank account. But that's probably less than 10% of people who prep.
An acre 3 hours away from the hospital $xx,xxx or less.
An acre within the golden hour of a hospital $50k-2mil or more if in a private location away from people, but close to a hospital.
I'm not even gonna get into the proximity of a walmart to cost per acre.
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u/Particular-Try5584 Urban Middle Class WASP prepping Jun 27 '26
This is a major factor in our decision making.
We live an hour from a Bunnings and full blown supermarkets, and 15mins from a farmer’s run hardware and local store... I hate driving an hour to get groceries, but this means our options are limited to the local. Thankfully the local is reasonable (used to be great but new manager has kinda ruined it a bit).
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u/ExcellentCod2940 Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
2.9 ac with 2br 2ba house and 2 outbuildings and spring for water source 7 minutes from a hospital and 13 minutes from Walmart in western Mayland bought in 2018 for 53K. Put in another 175K to gut rehab the house and add a 14x24 screened in porch and 20x8 deck, demolish and replace both outbuildings with 2700 sf total underroof. Still think we lucked out!
Still slowly growing out homestead efforts with 12 new fruit trees to go with the 6 heirloom apple trees, about 200 sf of raised beds gardens and 18 chickens.
It is definitely a work in progress.
The only thing we do that is sustainable is we get all the firewood we burn from our own 4 acre cabin property about 15 minutes away.
There is just the 2 of us, not 4 and by my calculations we can barely feed ourselves on the 2,9 acres in a best case scenario. If we could still get transportation (ie gas) to the cabin we could probably feed 4 and provide heat.
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u/godlords Jun 30 '26
Western MD is definitely an underrated spot to survive. Topography is very favorable to protecting against many growing climate threats. I bet y'all don't even see 90 this week when we crack 100.
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u/ExcellentCod2940 Jul 01 '26
forecast goes back and forth between 88-90 for Thursday/Friday. That is plenty hot enough thank you very much! Today was the first day this year with AC on and we hit 88. One of the best features is not only 10 degrees cooler than east and west of us but 10 % less humidity. Even 80 with high humidity can be terrible.
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u/godlords Jul 01 '26
Man, that's dreamy. Ya'll just open the windows at night?
Need to start looking for plots... is water access common out there?
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u/ExcellentCod2940 Jul 01 '26
Last summer we did not have to set up our AC at all! (we have a portable unit with a 'dryer hose' that goes to the window). Yes just open windows at night and close/shade windows during the day.
Garrett county is home to deep creek lake. It is a 4 season resort area and the lake is plenty big but prices for lake front and lake access (across the road but with a dock slip) are pretty crazy high - maybe not NYC/SF/LA high but old 50's vacation cabins on a 50x150 lakefront lot generally go for 800k-1M just to be bulldozed to make something modern. There is the Yough river which has riverfront lots that are cheaper but still expensive, especially with acreage.
Outside of the immediate lake area prices quickly decline to the point in the far south of the county the prices are similar to WV and you can get a liveable house on a bit of land (1-2 acres) for 100k or so. Those will be fixers to make modern but after covid they get snatched up quick by DC/Baltimore/Pittsburgh people. Nobody wants to be stuck in the city then next time .....
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u/_learned_foot_ Jun 27 '26
Or move to any small city in the Midwest. 15 miles out of town is 20 acres the same price as the home in the city. And most of those still have hospitals, but you have to make sure they are secure.
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u/xxemox Jun 30 '26
Not anymore sadly.... I live in the midwest and pre-covid you used to be able to buy farmhouse or farmstead plots or like 10-20acre and a 2bd2ba for 200k-300k.
Now unless your trying to live somewhere hours from any sort of population center your looking at 500k+. Now if you can work from home, already are retired... then Im sure in the way isolated parts of western NE, North Central IA or middle of no where South Dakota stuff is a bit cheaper, but definitely not like it was 6 or 7 years ago sadly.
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u/willieswonkas Jun 27 '26
The recent be hospitals or Walmart to worry about in SHTF
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u/MakeITNetwork Jun 27 '26
Yea just by pure odds 99.99% chance that you have to go to a hospital than the possibility that the world ends, you have to turn into a hero, or civil war begins. Just hope it won't be ambulatory I guess?
Be ready for everything, but also check your smoke detectors, cause a fire is more likely than a team of baddies attacking your house, or thousand year quake.
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u/flortny Jun 27 '26
Real estate varies wildly by location, but could you have meant, $5-$10,000 an acre? Raw land within thirty minutes of a major hospital in NC isn't anywhere near what you're talking about, I am 45min from a hospital and I paid just under $2000 an acre for 89 acres. I am only 15min from a helicopter landing pad......and just buy an AED.....they are really inexpensive for what they do.
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u/MakeITNetwork Jun 27 '26
An AED takes care of 1 problem out of literally 1000's, and most rural hospitals do not have a helicopter, and if your living in a trailer on a 1-5 acre homestead, you probably cant afford the 20k ride in the helicopter.
Fall on the back of a PTO, mangled by a bailer, auger, fall off a ladder or roof, get messed up by livestock(kicked, trampled, crushed, or gored), have heart problems that can't be solved by an AED(90% of other heart problems).
Also later in life problems of dyalisis, cancer treatments, eye treatments, back treatments etc. etc..all hampered by distance to hospitals.
You are lucky, here in AZ it seems like every "private, as in away from people" property we looked at that was near a hospital with and ER was at least 10x the price. Stuff that is 15 min or less from a hospital is in the millions.
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u/TwiLuv Jun 28 '26
Graduated from Asheville High, Buncombe County.
You are LUCKY!
Where in the heck can you find $2K an acre?
Even Warren County prices are $6-$12k minimum an acre.9
u/MistyMtn421 Jun 27 '26
Yeah I don't think a lot of people realize (in general ...I think more people who frequent this sub actually do) when they think farm to table, they really aren't grasping what that means. Preparing the land before the seed even goes into the ground to it actually reaching your belly is a lot of work. Especially if it's all that you are going to have to sustain you. It's basically the hardest full-time job you could ever have.
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u/OperationMobocracy Jun 27 '26
I could swear I’ve read where someone has done the math and factored in the caloric demands of performing the agricultural work into the amount of food production needed. Sort of like the amount of extra fuel required to transport the mass of the fuel required to fly a plane a certain distance.
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u/oaksandpines1776 Jun 26 '26
Yes, and in some areas, it is difficult to just growm plants in the red clay. It takes a lot of prep beforehand to condition the soil for many plants.
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u/foot_down Jun 26 '26
I suggest you check out r/homesteading.
We offgrid homestead on 5acres in a temperate climate. We have beef and a dairy cow in managed grazing on 4 of those. The house, chickens, vege gardens and permaculture orchard require less than 1 acre together. We produce all our own food minus grains and luxury items like coffee. Beef, dairy products, fruit, veges, eggs, roosters for chicken meat, preserves and pickles, tallow soap, fruit wines and fancy cheeses. My husband also goes fishing for relaxation and to supplement our plate.
But if you had to produce all your own hay and supplementary grain for your livestock in hard winters you'd need MUCH more land. We swap our produce and labour for neighbouring farmers' hay and mutton when needed.
But after nearly 20 years of learning to do all this I can tell you that "Self sufficiency" is a myth. You don't just buy land and boom all your food is produced. You need to learn about cropping and animal husbandry and if you're not raised in it it's a very challenging road!
Humans function best in villages or communities where the vast workload can be shared and goods and services traded and defended. It's just inefficient, if not damn near impossible, to produce everything yourself. Too much work and skill required.
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u/Pando5280 Jun 26 '26
I had a 10 acre place and unless you have 4 kids who can work it with you its a full time task just keeping it maintained. Gardens take a lot of work, animal husbandry takes ever more. Easier to have a large yard with raised garden beds and maybe some chickens to supplement protein with egg production. Even then its more work than most people realize especially if you are starting from scratch. All that being said I have relatives who are full time farmers and they have some nice set ups but its taken a lifetime of work to get there and all grew up on farms and had a lot of family help along the way.
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u/ahhhfrag Jun 27 '26
We have 5 acres and a half acre is lawn. Im basically a groundskeeper. The weeds, gopher, pumps, manifolds, trees etc it just never stops. But i tell you what I am highly skilled in irrigation, pest control, gardening, saws etc. So I can scale up or help others if needed. Its a pain in the ass but good practice for the finale.
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u/Mother-Ad-806 Jun 26 '26
I have 1 acre. I spend 40+ hours a week on a 20x30 vegetable garden. I don’t cut the grass. I don’t deal with the plants around the house. I grow enough veg for a family of 4 plus all the freeloading chipmunks and squirrels. I don’t think the main issue is space, it’s time and energy expenditure. How much time can you spend gardening plus processing all your bounty?? I can, cure, dehydrate, and freeze for the cold months. Processing is maybe 2-10 hours a week depending on what I’m doing. Some things get processed twice. Example sweet potatoes, onions, garlic, white potatoes, pumpkins, winter squash all need to be cured. Once they are cured I might can them, turn them into frozen pie filling, or mince and freeze. Beans dry on the vine, then each bean has to be picked from the pod, they might need more dehydration, you can store uncooked beans or you can pressure can beans. That’s 2 days spent on beans. During that time I can’t be in the garden. I don’t have animals. I can’t imagine getting up with the roosters, milking goats/cows, feeding pigs.
There’s a reason our farming ancestors had 10 kids.
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u/Greyeyedqueen7 Jun 26 '26
It depends on too many factors
The UK came up with the allotment size to feed a family of four there. Not be the sole source of food, mind you, but provide a good amount of the food. It’s why I went with that size for our new homestead’s garden/orchard. Now, the ducks and geese aren’t in there (or they’d eat it all), but the guineas we are getting soon for pest control will be. Still, on our one acre, we do pretty well, plus what we get from other local growers and the grocery store.
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u/melvah2 Jun 27 '26
Someone here made this https://www.foodwhentheshopsstop.com/results/ which may be of interest to play around with.
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u/Kyyrao Jun 27 '26
I wish more people understood that there is no way to "comfortably survive" on subsistence farming. You are always one bad season from doom, and every culture in the world that has had the chance to move away from it as a lifestyle prizes the day they can achieve something more.
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u/FaithlessnessAny9078 Jun 30 '26
A bad season or three. Farmers are at the mercy of drought, floods, hail, tornados and pests. Rodents eating your crops, coyotes eating your chickens, and disease affecting your animals and crops can all wipe farmers out. I'm not saying don't do it, just be aware.
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u/Broad-Character486 Jun 27 '26
Don't tell the Amish
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u/Kyyrao Jun 27 '26
Well see the trick to that is they literally established an entire community and lifestyle of working together to make what is an already grueling life a little more bearable. If you think your local Amish farm is "comfortable" go volunteer to work on one for a summer and find out what working actually is.
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u/EducationHot4688 Jun 27 '26
Even they don't truly live that way. They trade with the rest of society.
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u/TheSensiblePrepper Not THAT Sensible Prepper from YouTube Jun 26 '26
I am not a Farmer but I own Farm Land.
A few years back I read a Governmental Study that mentioned you needed 8 acers of land per person to survive. Keep in mind that is to SURVIVE and not actually do well.
I also believe that was taking into account both modern equipment and farming techniques. If you had to go back to "old school" methods, you would likely need to double or triple that number just to account for crop failure and livestock die off.
However, I think that having the land and ability to farm it is only half of the equation. You can grow all the food you want but if you don't know how to properly process and store that food long term, your basically going to starve 9 months out of the year.
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u/anonymousopsec1337 Prepared for 9 months Jun 26 '26
Yeah I think that number is going to be heavily dependent on how many animals you have and their need to forage.
If you did chickens, rabbits, and goats vs cows you would likely be better off space wise.
You need to grow enough to last through winter and crop failures. I’d recommend some greenhouse space too.
I don’t know how you would get enough seeds for any style of semi commercial farming though.
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u/TheSensiblePrepper Not THAT Sensible Prepper from YouTube Jun 26 '26
I don’t know how you would get enough seeds for any style of semi commercial farming though.
That is the part that a lot of people don't figure out.
Because of GMO Seeds that are easily purchased, grown and then buy new the next year. Many people, including most farmers, have no idea how to "Seed Save". It is a skill of it's own and one that would be very important if you intended to survive.
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u/Kitchen-Ebb30 Jun 26 '26
People around where I live have started to seed save. To keep it simple, the enterprises selling the seeds have line A and B and cross them for the seeds they sell to us. If you let part of those plants go to bloom you can save the seeds and plant them again but the result from those seeds will not be the fruits and vegetables you harvested the year before . It takes quite a few years of reseeding and selection of the result you want to get viable seeds.
Though it can be done. Leeks are for example often sold as seeds that are planted, go through one winter and then harvested and then you need new seeds. Someone who has been saving seeds have managed to now get leek plants that have been going for five plus years now, they used to be perennial instead of annuals. And this person is coming close to having that again, it's neat. But i don't know enough about it, and don't have the space, to really start such experiments.
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u/twostonebird Jun 26 '26
A LOT of seed you buy at the store is F1 hybrid, meaning the seed you harvest from it is infertile. You literally can't even use it to start a sustainable farming practice
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u/TheWoman2 Jun 27 '26
While some F1 hybrids are sterile, most of the will produce viable seed. The problem is that the resulting crops can have unpredictable traits, though they are usually not terrible because the genes all come from the grandparent plants that were chosen because they had good traits.
Saving seeds from F1 hybrids isn't a bad idea, but you will get more predictable results if you grow non-hybrid seeds instead.
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u/NerfEveryoneElse Jun 27 '26
Most F1 hybrid can produce viable seeds, I have volunteer plants from hybrid all over the place. They just dont produce the same kind of fruit anymore, depends on the parent variety and whatever pollen they got last season.
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u/bugabooandtwo Jun 27 '26
Also why it's important to have heirloom crops. Taking seeds from GMO crops will result in a lot of weeds and no food the next year.
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u/ragnarockette Jun 27 '26
I’d be interested to hear recommendations on the most space/labor efficient items. I feel like chickens, avocado tree, potatoes, one dairy cow, and a few fruit trees would be a decent enough caloric value as long as you can can/store well.
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u/msmerymac Jun 29 '26
You can easily grow enough wheat for a family of 4 on less than a quarter acre, although threshing and hand milling is a real slog.
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u/MistoftheMorning Jun 26 '26
10-15 acres. You need extra land to fallow or grow cover crops to regenerate the soil when you don't have access to commercial fertilizer. 3-5 acres reserved to grow trees for firewood if you live in a place with cold winters, or just have wood to build and repair structures. 2 acres of pasture to keep a cow or a few goats for milk.
When you grow crops, don't forget to account for saving part of your yield for seed and planting next season.
That being said, any amount of land is better than no land.
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u/eatmorbacon Jun 26 '26
In this fantasy of yours it's not the number of acres you have, or can even manage to use. It's how many acres can you successfully defend from others who will take it from you. If you want to play apocalypse role play games, that's the real truth of it.
In any fictional scenario you want to LARP that's gone so far as to require sustenance farming, the reality is that having multiple acres of animals or crops will put a target on you. Eventually another stronger group is going to take it.
How do you conceal the needed supplies to provide for a famliy of four is the correct question.
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u/PrisonerV Prepping for Tuesday Jun 26 '26
Farming is a lot of work, which is why a lot of people aren't farmers but it's an interesting thought experiment. Given that farmers were given 40 acres or 100 acres back in the day, I'm guessing it's probably around that. Most of it you'll need for hay for the livestock and trees for firewood and fruit.
If you know how to hunt or fish, you can supplement the meat supply. I'd also look into converting your excess food into something more easily storable and portable, namely cider and grain liquor.
I'd suggest watching the PBS series - Frontier House.
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u/Particular-Try5584 Urban Middle Class WASP prepping Jun 27 '26
Where I live (semi arid, near desert rural West Aussie) 10 acres isn’t enough to run a single animal on.
Soil quality, rainfall, water capture, temperature and sun hours matter.
If I was going full blown The Good Life self sufficiency? I’d aim for 15acres, and a pair of twin producing goats, with a deal to the stud goat in exchange... and a lot of water capture.
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u/mavrik36 Jun 26 '26
Your issue is probably going to be manpower, not acreage. Clearing, farming and maintaining a lot of land needs a lot of hands. Work scales expinentially, not linearly, when we talk about doing agriculture. You'll also need folks with varied skillsets, your best bet is a tight community with access to decent land and a willingness to cooperate. Thats what got us through most of human history
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u/Smash_Shop Jun 26 '26
But also like... Even if you started planting crops on day 1, and day 1 just so happened to be perfect planting season, you've still got an entire season till the harvest is ready.
And that's before we start the hard questions, like how are you gonna make it work without commercial fertilizer, or gas powered tractors and such. If your real dream is net zero subsistence farming, go try that, by all means. But if you're planning on learning it from scratch on day 1. Lol.
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u/androgenoide Jun 27 '26
gas powered tractors
I can't help but thin of Rudolf Diesel showing off his new engine running on peanut oil and arguing that farmers could grow their own fuel and become independent of producers...
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u/mavrik36 Jun 26 '26
Yeah you should absolutley be educating yourself and your community and leveraging that community to start growing food and learning skills that make you more resilient right now. I figured that goes without saying
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u/12darkmatter12 Jun 26 '26
Realistically, with small livestock, you would probably need a water source and 2-10 acres.
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u/EastTyne1191 Jun 26 '26
Gotta factor in forage too here. If you own like two sheep and some chickens, 2 acres would work. But you'd be supplementing hay at minimum for your sheep and that's extra cost. I think 5 would probably be the minimum depending on the number and type of livestock, the number of people, and the crops you're raising.
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u/bugabooandtwo Jun 27 '26
You also need a buffer zone. You don't want to advertise your goods by having a few cows or crops right near a road. Need several acres of wilderness and trees both to hide, and for firewood.
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u/Jazzlike-Radio2481 Jun 26 '26
What kind of livestock? Guinea pigs take up alotnless space than cattle.
What kind of food do yall eat that you would grow? With a couple greenhouses and those vertical aeroponic systems, you could grow food plenty of food depending on your energy production.
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Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
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u/MistyMtn421 Jun 27 '26
So I just had to look up the whole guinea pig thing. Apparently it's really popular in the Andes. They farm them and a lot of people raise them domestically. And apparently they taste pretty good too from what my internet quick looking is saying. Interesting I'm surprised that it's not more popular. I think the fact that they've been turned into pets changes it. My family always raised rabbits growing up for food along with chickens. And I'm surprised that since people have rabbits for pets it's still acceptable to eat them. I was noticing it was in the frozen section at my local Kroger today as a matter of fact.
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u/Various_Indication3 Jun 26 '26
You can do a lot on an acre or less but a family of 4 is not surviving on their own. Grow your community not your property.
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u/RichardBonham Jun 26 '26
As I understand it, European peasants could support a family with one acre of potatoes and a milk cow. We're talking subsistence here, not a rich and varied diet.
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u/nakedonmygoat Jun 26 '26
They still had communities, though. They'd have to breed that cow to get a calf, for example. They'd die of malnutrition on potatoes alone. And if the cow dies or the harvest fails, they're screwed.
Even the pioneers on the American plains had supply lines to supplement their diets and get cloth, harnesses, and tools.
So if OP thinks they can just go it alone, they're quite mistaken.
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u/dittybopper_05H Jul 01 '26
Actually, no they didn't.
Potatoes didn't catch on in Europe until the mid-18th Century, long after the end of feudalism. After that, cultures that did depend that heavily on the potato ended up paying very dearly for it, as anyone familiar with the history of Ireland and the Potato Famine can tell you.
Peasants actually had a pretty healthy diet of varied root vegetables like turnips, carrots, parsnips, etc., along with greens like cabbage. Pottage was a common meal, made from peas along with other ingredients and often containing meat.
Legumes were also a part of the diet, as was more meat than people assume: Most peasant families would have a pig or two that they would butcher and preserve by smoking and/or salting. Plus there was the opportunity for hunting small game and fishing. The bread they ate was healthy coarsely ground whole wheat bread, healthier than the refined white bread the upper classes ate.
Modern History has a series of videos discussing what the different classes in Medieval England ate, here is the peasant one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVcey0Ng-w
In fact, there is evidence that their diet, at least in England, was really good: There is a complaint IIRC about the archers on Henry V's chevauchée through France in 1415 feeling "pinched" because they weren't able to get as much meat in their diet as they typically did at home, and this affected their performance (along with dysentery).
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u/Ryan_e3p Salt & Prepper Jun 26 '26
You can do a lot with very little. Now, you won't be able to do everything, and I think that's important to realize. But between gardening, canning/preservation, local trade, and personal stockpile, you can do quite well. I have about an acre myself, with a dozen fruit trees, dozens of berry bushes, two greenhouses, and a kickass solar setup that runs about 90% of the home. The two greenhouses are also fully solar powered and have watering/hydroponic systems to control and minimize water use, minimize potential for pest damage, and extend the growing season. I also have ducks, which are a great way to turn carbs into protein.
This whole "takes an acre per person" is unreasonable for most people to try to achieve, and reflects a reality where you intend to do extremely space & labor intensive stuff like growing your own wheat. That is where I drew the line, and would rather store many hundreds of pounds worth rather than grow my own.
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u/Alexander_Granite Jun 26 '26
It depends on where you live and if the land is good, is there access to water, what about access or traffic, does it flood?
The best bet would be to look at the areas that the first settlers in your area found. Try and find a similar area with access to what you will need all year long.
IF the shit hits the fan, you are also going to need a defensible area with enough room for other families to move in.
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u/No_Coast837 Jun 26 '26
You could feed em on less than an acre. Thats the garden I mean.
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u/lr99999 Jun 26 '26
I have 10 acres that gets plenty of rain, looks really nice, and wouldn’t feed one person because of the soil quality. It will grow Bermuda grass so you could keep a cow and some goats and chickens.
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u/No_Coast837 Jun 26 '26
Lucky for me I’m a huge soil analysis person and the most rewarding part for me is improving my soil every year. Compost compost compost compost. At least you’ll have somewhere for all those droppings to be valuable!
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u/lr99999 Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
Sooo many things about this game are expensive!
Edit: I just paid $1400 for a load of compost and I’ve spent a fortune this year fighting off Mesquite trees. Reddit has a lot of posers.
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u/EducationHot4688 Jun 27 '26
Why are you fighting off mesquite? They are the easiest no maintenance food source you have if you live where they are growing.
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u/lr99999 Jun 27 '26
In my area, they are a wildly invasive species. If you let them go, you will never grow anything else because they suck up every molecule of water, including any ponds/tanks. They will also tear up buildings. And animals.
If you try to cut them down, they will sprout a massive lateral root system and send baby mesquite from each root. Your nice bag of Mesquite flour is my nightmare. Desirability of a plant is localized.
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u/RapidXpansion Jun 26 '26
enough acres to hide in the middle from roving bands of bandits who will take everything you have
you think you will be just left alone to farm your land while the world has gone to shit and everyone is starving ?
you can feed a family of 4 on a single acre IF you have the skills, seeds, work ethic. I mean, thats a lot of potatoes.
but bubba is gonna take your potatoes
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u/68red Jun 27 '26
Bill Burr had a joke about this in one of his standup specials. It was funny and pretty insightful, and went something like what you just said: when it all goes down, unless you're ready to arm and defend yourself, you're just growing food for the biggest, strongest guy in the neighborhood.
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u/funnysasquatch Jun 26 '26
It’s your fictional world. You decide.
The reality is that you won’t be able to do this.
Sorry, to be at this level of ShTF it’s Doomsday and that’s not a survivable event.
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u/ZixfromthaStix Jun 26 '26
The survivors of Rome would like to have a word with you. SHTF is not doomsday by default. Humans have survived some terrifying times. If the Black Plague couldn’t do us in, idk what you’re proposed the end times would be… but the odds of actually reaching end times are low. More logical to plan for actual prepping like grid collapse and waste flow back.
Otherwise you’re implying it’s impossible to homestead?
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u/Usernamenotdetermin Jun 26 '26
The response was spot on for the original post. But your point about “SHTF”, well that’s person dependent it seems. For me loosing power for a week or more a couple of times due to hurricanes wasn’t SHTF, but seeing what Katrina did was.
Here, an ambiguous question received the appropriate response.
And to your point - Pompeii was a SHTF moment, the fall of Rome was gradual so not the same
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u/ZixfromthaStix Jun 26 '26
I’m not saying temporary loss of power, I mean America goes into a period of not having enough electricity for the whole country. What happens? Cities, industry, and logistics are prioritized where able. That means rural and suburban areas by the thousands get turned off so the hospitals and train signals still work.
I’m talking Katrina level impact for the whole country, due to power needs not being met effectively.
The grid is straining, AI is adding to the load, and this year is a Super El Niño, on top of the ongoing global oil crisis.
We are 100% going to be seeing some horrifying situations where towns don’t have power and the weather kills people like it’s doing in Europe without AC.
We’ve already had regional brown outs for regular years with everyone running their AC, this year is gonna be brutal with it being hotter everywhere.
What’s more, there’s likely not going to be a fix. Once a town is off for even just a month, so much stuff breaks and rots. If there’s huge gaps without power, there’s just no realistic way to recover those spaces.
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u/tigerdogbearcat Jun 26 '26
When the shit hits the fan it's helpful to be in the hidden corners. When rome fell many of it's peripheral colonies continued with the same administrative systems as before under the Visigoths, Franks, and Germanic kingdoms. Many of those on the edges had next to no change.
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u/nakedonmygoat Jun 26 '26
Comparing to Rome isn't a direct analogy. The majority of people in the Roman Empire were rural and already knew how to work the land and raise animals. And since the collapse played out over hundreds of years, there was ample time for urbanites to learn. Not to mention that trade lines didn't just stop. In fact, they never stopped. They just quit carrying luxury goods.
Every time in humanity's history prior to the last 100 years, most people have either been rural or the adult children of rural parents. They had knowledge and skills they could draw on. Now, at least in Western countries, most people are urban, and even those in rural areas are engaged in commercial farming, with all the modern tech that requires. Even a hobby farmer probably doesn't plow with horses or oxen.
We've largely lost the old ways that kept humanity alive until now.
While I agree that a sudden global SHTF event that halts everything is unlikely, a collapse would have to be quite slow for large numbers of people to survive.
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u/_learned_foot_ Jun 27 '26
That's why I consciously make an effort to be the friendly English in many of my local Amish communities. I can do the work if they let me, then learn as needed.
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Jun 27 '26
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u/nakedonmygoat Jun 27 '26
Agreed. I wasn't trying to dispute that humans would survive as a species, only that this wouldn't be a collapse scenario with a direct comparison to the past. At least not in highly developed nations. There are places in the world where things would mostly just go on as they always have.
Anyone not already proficient in farming and animal husbandry would struggle and in most cases, die in a hard collapse scenario. Those who think they'll rely on hunting and fishing while they get up to speed have overlooked the fact that millions of equally proficient hunters and fishermen think they'll do the same thing, so it's not likely there would be enough to go around.
So anyone prepping for a low-tech future in their or their children's lifetime should already be developing the necessary skills.
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u/funnysasquatch Jun 27 '26
Humans wouldn't survive. Most life would be gone as well.
There is no conceivable way this level of collapse happens without a global nuclear war.
Global nuclear war will reset life on Earth that we haven't seen since the Earth was hit by the dino-killer asteroid. We focus on losing the dinosaurs but it killed off 75% of all life.
Global nuclear war ends us all. People underestimate the level of destruction. It's not just the blasts and radiation. The fires will cause more damage than the radiation.
Dams will be destroyed. This will flood and mix with radioactive materials and other toxic substances.
You can't homestead on toxic land with toxic water.
Maybe there's some tribe in a jungle somewhere that survives that.
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u/6gunsammy Jun 26 '26
In order for our current civilization to transform to sustenance farming, roughly 90% of everyone would have to die so the remaining 10% would have enough land to grow food on.
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u/monty845 Jun 26 '26
The US has about 350-400 million acres of arable land, and about 300 million of that is non-irrigated. So, even if we didn't put new land into production, that is actually enough for most of the population. The big issue is the land and the people aren't in the same places.
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u/Usernamenotdetermin Jun 26 '26
I came to post a much more long winded variant of this. I like your succinct “it’s your fictional world. You decide”
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u/Bingisthebeesanus Jun 26 '26
The number of acres is probably less important than being able to defend it or not be noticed. If you had 100 acres but were right outside the city…
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u/SHOMC-ME-NOW Jun 26 '26
Something to keep in mind, number of acres doesn’t matter when you back up to state land. The more remote you are the less likely it will be noticed. Example: You own 1 Acre and back up to X hundred Acres of State land in Northern or the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Be stealthy and plant away!
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u/mediocre_remnants Preps Paid Off Jun 26 '26
To do this comfortably? Enough acres that you can pay someone else to farm it and do the hard work. Because growing enough food to feed a family is a full-time job. It's also extremely rare to be successful in practice. It's almost unheard of.
Anyone you see on social media claiming to grow all of their own food and survive on it, are lying. They're either also independently wealthy and don't need money, or they're making money from social media. Or another family members has a high paying job.
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u/kay9medic Jun 26 '26
Less. Optimally you'd be raising rabbits, chickens and a hog or two, and growing forage for the animals. You'd trade your surplus meat and finished skins for vegetables coming from other areas.
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u/anonymousopsec1337 Prepared for 9 months Jun 26 '26
I Probably wouldn’t trade any surplus meat tbh…
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u/Derfel60 Jun 26 '26
Depends what standard of living you want. If youre eating oats, beans and the odd bit of veg for every meal you can do food on 2 acres or so, then another 1-5 acres for firewood depending how you grow it and what you grow. If you want meat, eggs, and fruit then its 20 minimum (assuming you want beef, pork, lamb, and poultry, you can cut some of them out to need less). If you also want sugar then add a couple more again.
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u/Outspoken_Idiot Jun 26 '26
In our bookshelf at home we have the updated version of "John Seymour The Complete Book of Self-Sufficiency" they use a 5arce plot and crop rotation along with animals. It's not a case of plant today and be ready tomorrow, but definitely start today and build on it every day.
With hydroponics/aquaponics it should be possible to increase the nutritional value and harvest size of certain foods.
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u/freelance-lumberjack Jun 26 '26
My grandparents got all they needed from 100 acres. 50 cows, 30 pigs, 20 chickens. Plenty of surplus for trades.
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u/GotNoPonys Jun 27 '26
It's more than you can secure or maintain w/just 4 people. Worse if 2 are kids.
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u/PurchaseNo5041 Jun 27 '26
I've been searching and searching for this one video that showed a system for feeding an entire family on 600 sq/f. They had a pump system feeding water and healthy bacteria to the catfish. They would then use the wastewater to grow vegetables using the nutrients supplied by the fish fertilizer. The only downside was that it required an electric pump, but a solar bank and battery might work in a pinch.
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u/Rocksteady2R Jun 27 '26
One of my favorite intro to homesteading books is 5 acres and Independence. But it would still be hard living, hard working. Gardening, animals, and resource management is long tough work.
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u/BenCelotil I Love A Sunburnt Country ... Jun 27 '26
Don't forget about greenhouses and vertical farming.
What might only be 100 square metres on the ground could be 500 square metres on shelves within a greenhouse.
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u/gillbeats Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
[Depends on diet and a lot of factors
I may be speaking under correction here, but arable land doesn't equal agricultural land. The 0.5 hectares per person cited is (afaik) for total agricultural land. A typical American diet (including meat) actually uses around 1.08 hectares per person with around 0.34 hectares being cropland (arable land) and the rest being grazing land. An ovo-lacto vegetarian diet uses 0.12 (arable land) + 0.02 (grazing land) hectares per person (assuming no excess intake) and a completely vegetarian diet (with no excess intake) uses only 0.13 hectares per person (only arable land can be used though). This should mean that using all of the world's current arable land (1.873 billion ha) our maximum population limit, assuming no future land degradation and perfect harvest practices would be 14.4 billion people on vegetarian diets.
This is based on my understanding from this paper:
researchgate/305627253_Carrying_capacity_of_US agricultural_land_Ten_diet_scenarios
The 1.873 billion ha figure comes from the USGS and NASA project, GFSAD30, that ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/73zUEMLWTg)
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u/Fickle-Twist7273 Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
I feed a family of 2 out of our 200 sq ft greenhouse and it provides 75% of our produce for the year. I use the square foot method. I have double level planting beds so it’s bigger than you think. We don’t consume meat but live on a river that we fish which is in the middle of a national forest that butts up to a national park. We are 60 minutes from a grocery store/hospital. I buy everything in bulk online and store it in Mylar bags so we have 10-20 year back stock of items such as pasta, rice, flour, quinoa, beans, seasonings, etc. We have the river, our well and a 5,500 gallon water storage tank for water. I process and can our harvests so it lasts as long as possible. We have very full deep freezer as well as two refrigerators. One for harvests storage like carrots and the other for regular use. We compost on the property and get manure from our neighbors who raise livestock for our compost. We have endless trees on property for fire wood and there are always trees down in the wilderness alongside the road that we use for firewood to heat the house our fireplace is massive and can heat the whole 3100sq ft house. We would eat meat if the SHTF and our property is absolutely abundant with wild animals if it came to that. The people who live out here in the wilderness also have small farms/gardens and we trade with them for things we don’t grow, it’s a tight community. We plan to continually expand but we are newer to this and doing one thing at a time. We plan to add a outdoor cold crop garden next spring (working on the soil now) and we are working on solar, wind, and water (river) energy capture and utilization for off grid energy as we speak. I want to build a cold food storage room as well so I can store more of my harvests longer before processing, like potatoes.
I think you should start where you can and just put keep building on that and get good at it before you add something additional. You can do a lot with a small space if you do it with some planning. I personally think that being far enough from people (that 45-60 minute range) and having natural resources like water and wild life in abundance will be some of the most important factors. Our property has lots of sunlight, a wind corridor, and the river which we can use to harvest energy, these are other natural resources you should consider. I personally would focus on natural resources before property size.
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u/GooseGosselin Jun 26 '26
If you prep well, there will be plenty of un-owned land in a true SHTF scenario by the time you need to farm it.
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u/KeyanuReaves69 Jun 26 '26
lol that’s what I’m saying, just gotta live a year and most people will be dead by then. Then you can start your farm with some real acreage
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u/Hairy_Coconut2022 Jun 26 '26
Yup, we're way outside of the city, off the beaten path surrounded by farm land that's leased by people who drive in and plant it. It's a waiting game.
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u/Many-Health-1673 Jun 26 '26
40 acres would be ideal.
Say 30 acres for cattle (how many cattle depends on your location), 1 acre for a garden, 1 acre for pigs, a run for chickens, and the rest you could plant in peaches, apples, etc.
I'd rather raise livestock than deal with a vegetable garden. A lot more calories to eat and a lot less work.
In my region, it is 3 acres per cow for a standard sized 1,200 lb cow like a Hereford or Angus. I am running 6 two year old replacement heifers on about 20 acres. My main herd of 60 animals is running one cow per 5 acres which is easier on the pasture in dry spells. A 1,250 lb steer should yield around 450 lbs of beef from the butcher. If you had all of that turned into 90% lean ground round at 800 calories per lb = 360,000 calories. At 80% lean that would be 518,400 calories.
Pigs can be raised in pretty small confines. If I was making a go at raising livestock for being self sufficient, pigs are a good place to start.
Chickens are easy as well. Build a run and a coop and keep them watered and fed and protected from racoons, foxes, and hawks. The automatic coop doors are worth every penny.
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u/HappyCamperDancer Jun 26 '26
So you plan on planting rice, wheat, oats and other grain/carbohydrates besides fruits and veggies? And meat?
I think almost everyone can plant supplemental food like fruits and veggies, sure, have goats for dairy and chickens/rabbits for meat, but to be 100% "self sufficient" for 100% of your calories, your clothing, shoes, your heating, cooling, machinery, production, medical needs, dental needs...sorry. You need a village. No way you can plant all the flax you need for your linens. Mill your grains for flours.
Just by needing to ask the question means you won't have "enough".
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u/kay9medic Jun 26 '26
I don't why you got the downvote. You're right, no one has the time, the knowledge or the energy to provide all for themself. The name of the game is specialization. I grow the wheat. I bring the wheat to you. You grind it into for flour for 10% of the take. Joe raises the hogs, skin the hogs. Joe pays Ben to bring hides to the shoemaker, Joe gets shoes. Shoemaker trades shoes for flour. So the world turns.
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u/OkShopping9448 Jun 26 '26
If the SHTF the vast majority of folks would
fall victim to others and/or accidents and diseases within a year, likely much sooner.
My buddy and I have property, 9 acres, in the Ozarks, very rural. 15 miles from nearest small town of less than 1,000 and 32 miles from a town of 4,000. Our road ends in the lake. We have plenty of water and wild game and fish around but the ground isn’t good for row crops so a meat based diet would be a sure thing.
We have discussed this before and luckily are well armed for both close range and long range defense/offense. We already collect rainwater for showers and dishes and have solar for charging batteries so could go off-grid if needed but would need expansion of the system.
It sure wouldn’t be a fun life but definitely survivable if we can defend it. Key word if.
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u/Jaicobb Jun 26 '26
There are several books on this topic. The Backyard Homestead or something similar to this.
If you eat 2,000 calories day and grew 1,000,000 calories per person that would be enough, but you have to factor in loss, spoilage, nutrients, variety, growing excess for next year's seed. But that 1,000,000 calorie figure would be a starting point and it doesn't take a lot of space to grow that much.
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u/Akersis Jun 26 '26
Probably good to point out that not all acres are equal. Assuming 'arable' is a very, very big assumption. For example lots of land might be suitable for pasture but would make for poor farmland. Where and what crops are grown today has a lot to do with economic factors--for example there is a lot of land that wouldn't be economically viable for growing human crops, but serves fine as pasture. We couldn't eat the biomass grown on it, but cows can and we eat them. Just the corn alone from Iowa could feed 70-80 million people a year, not counting the corn that goes into ethanol. And that is one crop, not counting soybeans, pigs, and other food it produces. Are you buying farmland in Iowa, or a sandy, salty acreage next to a marsh in coastal California?
The past looks cool when you're in the present and homestead life looks cool from the outside, but there's a reason society traded it for city lives--on average we live happier, longer, and more fruitful lives in a modern economy. Just like you'll get more calories out of Iowa, you'll get a lot more survival out of a functioning economy. Put your energy there where you can.
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u/Another_Anon_userr Jun 26 '26
Wall gardens and other multi level farming methods can improve your food-per-backyard amount.
Realistically, you want as many as your neighbors to be self sufficient as well. Not only does this help everyone get more food, but also reduces the chances that they'll take yours.
Don't forget to diversify. Potatoes are great, but you're not going to live off of taters alone. Fish, grain, and beans are great options.
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u/premar16 Jun 27 '26
Not sure exactly. I grew up on a large 200 dairy farm with my grandparents. In the house we had the grandparents, an aunt, and 5+kids. We had two big barns,a few sheds, an area for a big garden, a backyard full of kid play stuff, fruit trees, etc. We had (well have my family still owns it I just don't live near there) cows, draft horses,goats,chickens, and a few pigs.
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u/BadDentalWork Jun 27 '26
Lots of ways to survive. Start canning veg/fruits? Baking and freezing things you create? Do you have enough space for a garden? Can you purchase extra produce and preserve it? Can you stockpile canned goods? Do you have a water source and a water filter? sHTF isn’t just about growing stuff in your yard and livestock, it’s about surviving without the mainstream supply, just my two pennies.
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u/FaithlessnessAny9078 Jun 30 '26
Planting fruit trees can yield big in a few short years. Once established the tree have much less irrigation requirements, depending on species. Deep roots gather the water they require.
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u/Maleficent_Mix_8739 Prepared for 2+ years Jun 27 '26
Been there done that on just under 1/4 acre which included the house and outbuildings. Our aquaponics system provided enough to feed all of us and we had extra to sell.
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u/dj_boy-Wonder Prepared for 1 year Jun 27 '26
I think it depends on the condition of the soil… 2 acres of farmable, defendable, secure land would do you easy. Heck could do 1 if you got creative.
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u/wolpertingersunite Jun 27 '26
I think John Jaevons claimed an acre per person, but pretty sure that relied on eating mangels.
His work was discouraging Imo
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u/Manamaximus Jun 27 '26
Medieval numbers according to « Life in a Medieval Village » range from 18 to 32 acres. You can do better with modern agricultural technics, but you may not have access to as much resources off grid
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u/Uleepera Jun 27 '26
I don’t think there is a standard answer. Geographically will play as much of a role as what you plan to do with the land such as animals or farming or both.
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u/QuestionMaker207 Jun 27 '26
really depends on where you are in the world and what the winters are like.
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u/DannyWarlegs Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
20 acres, if youre including hay fields and firewood, bees, crops, livestock, and rotation for crops.
Absolute minimum (best-case scenario)
If everything goes perfectly:
- Intensive vegetable garden
- Potatoes, corn, beans, squash
- Fruit and nut trees
- Chickens for eggs
- Rabbits for meat
- One or two dairy goats
- Composting and rainwater collection
You could potentially support a family of four on 2–3 acres.
More realistic minimum
Most experienced homesteaders would recommend 5 acres because it gives room for:
- Crop rotation
- Pasture
- Orchard
- Feed production
- Storage
- A safety margin if one crop fails.
If you wanted beef cattle
A single cow can require 1–3 acres of pasture (sometimes much more depending on climate), so raising cattle significantly increases land needs. Many small homesteads instead choose:
- Chickens
- Rabbits
- Goats
- Sheep
These animals convert feed into meat and milk much more efficiently than cattle.
In an ideal world
A well-designed 5-acre homestead could include:
- ½ acre intensive vegetable garden
- ½ acre potatoes and staple crops
- 1 acre grains or animal feed
- 1 acre orchard and berries
- 1–2 acres pasture for goats or sheep Chickens, rabbits, bees, greenhouse, compost, and a home
That setup could produce most of a family's calories and nutrition year after year, assuming good management and favorable growing conditions.
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u/_under_zealous_ Jun 27 '26
A lot of different factors at play. Water availability, intensity of land use, style of farming, type of livestock. I've seen intensely farmed 1 acre plots produce enough to feed a family, but it all depends on a lot of different things. Good luck.
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u/ItsNotGoingToBeEasy Jun 27 '26
The land is less an issue than you becoming a farmer circa 1820 on your own. You don’t have the human resource to do this
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u/Stunning-Adagio2187 Jun 28 '26
It's like all real estate location is the issue what is the rainfall what kind of soil do you have what kind of vegetables can you grow.
You need to do a lot more research before you move to the country and become a farmer
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u/sabotthehawk Jun 28 '26
Depends on where you are and what other resources are available (hunting, fishing, forage, etc)
In the north need 10-15 acres planted with trees for sustainable timber for just heating. Can how alot lower with coppicing.
Strictly food wise. Family of 4 need 5ish acres for well rounded production.
Raw calories need 1/4acre of corn or potatoes. But would have to supplement since neither of those is complete nutrition needed to survive. (Closest is potato with dairy - cheese, milk,butter,etc).
So allowing for lower output from lack of fertilizer, inexperience in growing, crop loss from bugs and weather, spoilage, inefficient storages, etc. I would say raw garden space would be 1.5 acres corn and potatoes, 1 acre grain, .5 acres of mixed veg, .5 berries and fruit trees, .5 acres herbs (for flavor and medicine). Misc .5 acres for seed production. So 5 acres give or take.
Better to have more but bigger gardens = more work. Not just growing but processing all that for storage.
In grid down/shtf do you have ways to preserve your garden goods? Not like you can go buy more jars or salt.
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u/tomahawk66mtb Jun 28 '26
We live in the tropics on about an acre and a half with a quarter acre pond. There's a local tilapia that thrives in the pond, tonnes of fruit trees like jackfruit, breadfruit, mangos, papaya, bananas & coconuts. We are also walking distance to the sea with good shore fishing for Jack tuna. We are planting a vegetable garden and building a run and house for about 20 chickens.
For the 6 of us we should be able to grow enough food as there is a 365 growing season here
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u/Quarks4branes Jun 28 '26
We bought a house on about 0.3 acre, zone 10b, just over 700mm of rainfall pa. Started out with just nasty dusty sand and even nastier runner grasses.
We smothered the runner grasses with huge amounts of free/cheap organic material, then turned the back yard into just food production. 5 years later we're harvesting around 1800kg (4000lb) of veg, fruit, eggs annually. We think it'll max out at 2500kg+ as our fruit trees mature and we also bring the front yard under cultivation . The 2 of us are mostly self-sufficient for everything but protein, dairy.
A lot can be done with a little.
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u/Hot-Profession4091 Jun 28 '26
I can’t remember off the top of my head, but a lady has published some great numbers on how much land you need to grow feed for rabbits and chickens. Often the numbers you see are for a family’s yearly vegetables and livestock is overlooked.
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u/Econman-118 Jun 28 '26
Depends on the location of land and growing season. Seasonal rain. If there is game to hunt. Pretty hard living on potatoes only for very long. Or salads for that matter.
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u/pretzelsRus Jun 28 '26
Just remember that you need to be able to protect all of that space and whatever livestock/food you have on it.
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u/modern_medicine_isnt Jun 28 '26
None. You need more people. You can't be an expert in everything. You need redundancy. You need to build up enough supplies to last the winter.
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u/BaylisAscaris Jun 28 '26
Year round growing season with a lot of sun I did 5 adults on half an acre permaculture food forest. No livestock, some were vegan, and we supplemented on stuff we traded with neighbors.
If you want any livestock or aren't super experienced with dense gardening or have a shorter growing season, get a lot more space.
Also it's not going to be comfortable. You need to work hard and winter is gonna suck. Make sure you have a well with a pump you can run, backup pump, or very short walking distance to fresh water.
If this is your plan, start now to work out the kinks. Also plant fruit/nut trees ASAP.
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u/DeFiClark Jun 28 '26
Depends on your soil, need for winter fuel woodlot, growing season and a lot of other variables but the old book “5 acres and independence” makes a good case for a 5 acre homestead plan.
Woodlot is a totally different equation based on how many cords you need for winter heat and replenishment rate, which is in addition to crop and livestock needs.
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u/Difficult-Repeat5243 Jun 30 '26
An acre with tillable soil and a good green house would do well for 4 people. You need to have a variety of seeds for your area and a way to water it. Use raised beds where you can and start practicing now.
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u/rjewell40 Jun 30 '26
This conversation happened here about a year ago
Maybe there’s something in the post & comments that could be helpful
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u/Relative-Fox-3506 Jun 30 '26
The Self Sufficient Backyard book has layouts for under 1 acre. There’s not a lot of extra space for activities, but it can be done.
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u/ChocolateOk7997 Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
If you want to heat with wood, you'd need at least two acres for fast growing trees such as willows. You'd need to raise high calorie/acre foods such as corn or potatoes on the remainder to get enough calories to survive. Existing nut trees are a gift from God and make lots of high protein food for very little labor. We have a six large black walnut trees that provide all of the walnuts we can stand to eat. Grow some blueberries for the flavonoids and perennial kale for vitamins. All in all, I'd want at least 7 acres total. Two acres for wood and five for food.
In 2020, we bought a 101 year old farmhouse on 50 acres with a big creek in West Virginia for only $139,000. Had to put $11,000 into it to replace cracked windows, replace the plumbing, install heating (heat pump, wood stove, and a propane wall heater), and upgrade the electricity to 200 amp service. But for 150K, we are living the rural life we wanted. We raise St. Croix hair sheep on 2.4 fenced acres for meat. West Virginia has raw mountainous land for $1000/acre and flat land for $4000/acre if you buy at least two dozen acres. We have a homestead exemption which halves our annual land taxes. Last year we paid $210 total! $10/year for car inspections (no emissions test). Constitutional carry. Lotsa deer. WV is the best kept secret for survival properties.
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u/IllManager9273 Jun 30 '26
Depends opon what your definition of survive, each component of survive adds more land. Basic diet of potatos and sadness, I can do that with potato barrels and a 1/8th of an acer. A 1/4 acer greenhouse running a aquaponics set up can get protein covered. You want to heat with wood? 5 to 10 acres of woodland. You want chicken? A backyard flock dosen't need that much space but each chicken will need about 2 lbs of feed per week and growing the 110 lbs if grain to feed that hen for a year will need around a 1/10th of an acer. Ect ect ect in general about 5 to 10 acers seems to be the consensus but alot depends opon your needs.
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u/Alcarain Jul 01 '26
Probably 10.
Bare bones 5 acres.
Of course it depends on the quality of soil and environment youre in.
You could theoretically feed a family of 5 on less than an acre if you did some very specific engineering and also grew vertically involving hydroponics but thats a pretty big ask in a survival situation.
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u/Difficult-Studio4131 Jul 01 '26
You should check More than Farmers on youtube. They're a couple with a homestead and they grow all of their food for a family of 6 in 1/8 of an acre in Ohio. Some of their videos might be a good reference for you and your wife!
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u/Glittering_Song_8357 Jul 02 '26
In a lot of SHTF scenarios like flooding, fires, nuclear war, and super volcanos growing food becomes much harder and to supply a family of 4 the amount of farm work required would be immense. Don't bet on being able to grow all your food and make sure you have enough food stored.
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u/Delicious_Subject987 Jul 02 '26
I have 1/8 acres and we have all the veg/eggs covered. My personal out look is you need to have knowlage and you can grow more than you think also grow up! We will be moving to 1.5 acre plot and will get goats and keep the garden and chickens
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u/stone_or_rock Jul 03 '26
I always assume that I will have to be able to protect whatever amount of land I need to survive. So, how much can you and your family protect while doing all of the other tasks necessary to stay alive?
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u/pengd0t Jul 03 '26
You could probably raise more rabbits than you know what to do with in a tiny shed. I’ve had a dozen chickens and way too many eggs (for a family of 7) when I lived in a suburban environment on 0.18 acres.
I’m on 3 acres now and have a large garden that is barely touching that amount of space… I don’t think you really need a lot of land unless you’re trying to portion off pastures for large livestock to rotate through, want to plant an orchard, or need enough wooded land to have sustainable firewood… or maybe just need your land to stretch out to a water source. Pretty sure when I was young my uncle raised a few cows in what was essentially his front yard on a property that was probably 2 acres.
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u/Useful-Contribution4 Jul 03 '26
All comes down to what you grow. Things like potatoes are calorie dense.
5 acres but 10 for safe side. You want to be able to have animals thst have room to graze and rotate.
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u/Successful_Bag_7257 25d ago
My wife and I maintain a 2 acre farm passively, for most of the year it covers the majority of our needs, alongside a year round hydroponics set up for greens in the basement. I'm not sure I would go any smaller than that
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u/Actual_Property9413 Jun 26 '26
Historical precedent, based on US land grants, say that you need 40 acres and a mule to set up a successful homestead.
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u/IndependentPrior5719 Jun 26 '26
In general a person requires between 1/5-1/3 if an acre to provide the food they eat, but this is an average of many agricultural situations globally; meat eaters need the high end , vegetarians the low end and if you’re doing it yourself you probably won’t get the efficiencies of big farms
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u/8675201 Jun 26 '26
There is a family in LA with a third acre that feeds them and they have extra to sell.
I have two gardens and twenty-five chickens and I'm only using about one-quarter acre.
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u/FeintLight123 Jun 26 '26
Probably depends on the growing season length and what ideal survival crop readily grows in your area.. then there is dietary considerations. Sure you could survive only on potato for a long time but you would also go crazy.