4G Pitches are Embarrassing

[u/ifrgotmyname]

Watching the Sharks v Lyon game, how is a 4g pitch allowed!? Guys wearing shorts and no sleeves are expected to dive and tackel into artifical turf? How is it not mandatory to play on grass? Jaco Willams specifically didn't dive to avoid injury into the touch line after a great interception, how is this allowed...

[u/Cymro2016]

I’m very torn about them these days.

The one at the Cardiff Arms Park has 100% made a huge improvement to the product on the pitch from a spectator point of view.

The grass (or more accurately mud) pitch had constant issues with wear and tear and drainage was a nightmare leading to games getting cancelled.

However, I played on it for the first time a few weeks back and my knees got absolutely shredded by the carpet burn effect. Felt like fire every time I hit the ground, and was a nightmare to keep clean while it was healing as it had taken a big patch of the skin off

However there must be a way to mitigate it, as I rarely see Cardiff players with those kinds of injuries post match?

[u/BaitmasterG]

The problem isn't the artificial pitches, it's the shit artificial pitches. By which I mean Saracens

[u/Connell95 → u/BaitmasterG]

100% this. The Sarries pitch badly needs an upgrade, but being artificial isn’t the issue in itself.

[u/AdSuspicious9510 → u/BaitmasterG]

Out of interest, how do you know it's not a good pitch?

[u/Brewer6066 → u/AdSuspicious9510]

The age typically. It’s been there for years so it’s an older generation.

[u/BaitmasterG → u/AdSuspicious9510]

There's been multiple complaints about that pitch in particular

Jack Nowell, LRZ have both raised issues with it, Bristol have said they specifically protected certain players by not having them play on it

And it looks proper shit

[u/Educational_Play9910 → u/BaitmasterG]

Nah, all artificial pitches should be banned

[u/No_Emergency6140]

For a lot of clubs (eg Gloucester, who I support) it's about trying to be financially sustainable. With a 4G pitch, you can host events at the stadium that generate revenue without fucking up the grass. Not saying that means there are no issues, or even that it's more important than other concerns, but for a lot of clubs that's the motivation.

[u/dwaynepebblejohnson3]

Grass is preferable especially at professional level but 4G pitches really aren’t that bad (the newer ones at least, without the little black things in it). I’ve found pitches that need to be covered in sand to be playable much worse, not to mention muddy pitches that turn into concrete in the hotter months.

[u/InsaneGorilla0]

Honestly I play on 4G at a decent level and have done for 6 years now. It's really not bad at all, infact we have better playing numbers than ever before and people love it. If it's really a problem for someone then play with long underlayers.

That being said, at the top level they can actually afford to have decent grass pitches, which I agree are preferable.

The main reason I'd advocate for 4G is it gets SO MUCH use that a typical grass pitch can't. Men's, Women's, Colts, Juniors, Local schools, External rentals, etc. The facility is always used no matter the weather/conditions and it plays a fast fun game.

[u/RooBoy04 → u/InsaneGorilla0]

The last paragraph is key.

I think (for example) the main reason Glaws haven’t gone bust over the last few years is due to the artificial pitch, as it means that both Glaws and GH can play and train there, and then extra matches for the u18s, Hartpury Uni, England A, etc can be played. They even managed to host a couple of concerts over the summer, which would have been a pain with a grass pitch.

[u/SherlockOhmsUK → u/InsaneGorilla0]

Tbh, a fast fun game sounds like he’ll. I want an inch of mud and it to be pissing freezing, as it stops all the racing snakes making me look daft and I can drag them down to my level

[u/AlternativeParfait13 → u/InsaneGorilla0]

Totally. At community level it allows loads more people to use it, even in the depths of winter.

[u/mrsprucemoose → u/InsaneGorilla0]

I have to agree, I think the negative side is overplayed alot. I'd like to see even further development of the technology so the friction burns become less of an issue, but I don't think the newer artificial surfaces are anywhere near as bad as some people make them out to be

[u/alxdnld → u/InsaneGorilla0]

Yeah agreed, never had a problem with it.

[u/Stu_Thom4s]

So, from what I'm seeing here, the ideal would be for World Rugby to set more consistent standards for 4G pitches.

Personally, I hope there are some big gains in hybrid pitches because Cape Town Stadium looks good, but it also seems super slippery.

[u/k0bra3eak → u/Stu_Thom4s]

A good hybrid pitch is arguably better than an all grass one, Bulls have also adopted one and that pitch always looks pristine

[u/nagdamnit]

You haven’t seen how bad the old pitches got in the winter up the Northern Hemisphere.you’d be playing in a mud bath for most of the year. Makes for shit rugby.

[u/RooBoy04 → u/nagdamnit]

Even look at the Rec during the winter to see what it’s like, especially then the Avon floods the stadium. It’s like playing in a bog

[u/itscalledravenhill → u/nagdamnit]

Games gone

[u/perplexedtv → u/nagdamnit]

I'd much rather that than a 4G pitch. Our club in France is the only one in the area that's grass and everyone loves playing there.

[u/rustyb42]

I'd prefer Ulster were on grass, I understand why they're not on grass as the game is about more than the professional level

[u/_LightEmittingDiode_ → u/rustyb42]

Isn’t it got to do with that time the pitch froze over? I’m fairly sure there’s been multiple occasions Ulster have had pitch issues regarding the weather.

[u/rustyb42 → u/_LightEmittingDiode_]

That was one of the key decisions yes, the other being the extreme use it gets later in the season after poor weather has ruined the pitch

The first issue could have been fixed with relaying a grass pitch with under soil heating, but that with the wetness of Belfast could have doubly fucked the rest of the season / non Ulster games

[u/itscalledravenhill → u/_LightEmittingDiode_]

Another big reason was our Dumbass ceo bringing it in the earn money from events and concerts etc. While we dont have permission those events in the first

[u/hodge172]

4G pitches take a less work to maintain them compared to Grass. Also allows the clubs to train on them and hire them out for extra money. However they should have to be a certain standard to help mitigate injuries to players. Heard this week that Jack Nowell would only play at Sarries if it was a play off semi final.

[u/AllezLesPrimrose]

There are many places in the world where artificial pitches are the only realistic option such is the amount of use the pitch has to withstand and/or the local climate.

The newer gen artificial pitches’ serious injury rates have been found multiple times in studies to be within the margin of error of the same on grass pitches, not that the constant bleating you hear about them might suggest that fact.

[u/SadSeiko → u/AllezLesPrimrose]

I don’t think people have seen these pitches in person. It’s not like the artificial pitches of 10 years ago 

[u/Sufficient_Bass2600 → u/AllezLesPrimrose]

Strangely enough all the latest studies not commissioned by manufacturers of artificial pitches have shown the exact opposite:
* More burns due to sliding * More joints issues due to the floor being more bouncy. The unresolved question is whether because it was due to repeated training on those or just play.
* More snap break from tackle. Again the unresolved issue is whether this is due to the pitch or the way players adapt to play on those. People don't gonas hardbon frozen or snowed under ground. * Respiratory diseases such as lung cancer due to repeated exposure to micro plastic *

[u/AllezLesPrimrose → u/Sufficient_Bass2600]

The idea all the independent studies over many years that have found serious injury rates between natural and next gen artificial pitches to be essentially the same are being paid off by Big Plastic is an incredible claim and incredible claims require incredible proof.

[u/Sufficient_Bass2600 → u/AllezLesPrimrose]

Just google artificial turf injuries.

Denying independent studies in favour of paid for research is a choice.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11363235/

A retrospective study of 26 high schools found athletes were 58% more likely to sustain injuries on artificial turf than on natural grass (relative risk ratio = 1.59).

https://profiles.wustl.edu/en/publications/injury-incidence-is-higher-on-artificial-turf-compared-with-natur/

Instead of providing you the hundred links to study that confirm the pattern here is a quick recap.

Surface Comparison Profile for Rugby

Injury Category	Artificial Turf Profile	Natural Grass Profile	Statistical Shift & Data Findings
Overall Match Injuries	Higher in specific elite cohorts (Odds Ratio: 2.16)	Baseline reference	Overall match injury incidence doubled on synthetic surfaces in a multi-season elite team study.
Joint & Ligament Strains	Elevated (particularly ankle/foot & knee)	Lower rotational friction	High shoe-surface traction on turf increases lower body joint stress, raising knee injury incidence by 44%.
Overuse Injuries	Significantly Higher	Lower impact firmness	Elite player studies show a statistically significant spike in overuse injuries on turf across both matches and training.
Skin & Muscle Contact	7.92x higher abrasion rate; higher thigh haematomas	Higher concussions & chest impacts	Turf causes significantly more friction burns. Conversely, natural grass sees more concussions (Relative Risk: 0.52 on turf).
Post-Match Recovery	Prolonged muscle soreness	Baseline recovery time	Visiting players experience consistently higher muscle soreness for 4 days post-match when playing on turf.

[u/za3030 → u/Sufficient_Bass2600]

We have investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing!

[u/upsidedownsloths → u/AllezLesPrimrose]

Serious injuries aside, they tear the skin off you. Players end games looking like theyve fallen off a bike going 100kmh

[u/AllezLesPrimrose → u/upsidedownsloths]

I’m not going to deny topical injuries will be higher but when professional coaches and players scare monger about artificial pitches it’s about the prevalent idea they cause more joint and ligament injuries when they factually do not.

I’d argue particularly in sports like rugby, American football and Gaelic football where players have become bigger, stronger and faster in general that it’s the changing shape of players’ bodies and the pressure all that added mass puts on ligaments is the real reason more injuries seem to be happening.

[u/__Atlas___ → u/AllezLesPrimrose]

I'd be interested to see the number of injuries on artificial vs grass. I suspect artificial is significantly higher at the professional level

[u/mrtigerfish → u/AllezLesPrimrose]

They probably say that smoking tobacco has health benefits

[u/bigt8409]

Cardiff have a 4G, mainly as the MilStad next door blocks a load of sunlight so there was just a trench of mud/sand down one touchline after a few weeks.

But it also allows the Semi Pro RFC to continue to play and train there, the firsts train on it and it’s used for loads of community stuff which it would next be able to if it was still grass.

I think there’s a vast difference between pitches as well, I stood on the Racing 92 one after a game and it felt like concrete, whereas the Cardiff one feels springy.

[u/Connell95]

Glasgow and Edinburgh players manage it just fine. Skill issue clearly.

If it’s a modern 4G pitch, it’s absolutely fine tbh. Softer than grass a lot of the time, especially when there’s not been much rain.

[u/cloud__19 → u/Connell95]

The one and only time I played cricket was the height of a blisteringly hot summer in Northamptonshire and I fell on the grass and absolutely shredded my leg, it was agony for weeks. I haven't been on a 4g pitch (must get to Edinburgh's picnic one year) so I have nothing to compare it to but i agree that grass when it hasn't rained much can be very painful.

[u/Massive-Wolverine571]

It’s perfectly fine to play rugby on 4g pitches.

Many clubs in Dublin have them

[u/Educational_Play9910 → u/Massive-Wolverine571]

Why not have more grass fields? Southern hemisphere nations seem to be able to do it

[u/Massive-Wolverine571 → u/Educational_Play9910]

Rains a lot and if you’ve got six men’s teams plus minis the pitches get destroyed over winter

[u/Ruckthesystem → u/Massive-Wolverine571]

How many EPL clubs have 4G pitches??

[u/Massive-Wolverine571 → u/Ruckthesystem]

How are soccer pitches relevant?

Do you think a premier league soccer pitch gets the same amount of foot traffic as a pitch in terenure?

[u/Ruckthesystem → u/Massive-Wolverine571]

I'll take that as zero then

[u/RaaschyOG → u/Massive-Wolverine571]

How does clubs in Dublin having them make it alright lol

[u/jiminy-jim-jim → u/RaaschyOG]

Surely you can put two and two together.

[u/Massive-Wolverine571 → u/RaaschyOG]

Because I play on them and they’re fine to play on?

[u/Soopercow]

It seems crazy. Also very expensive to install without checking the players are happy diving on it. How are so many pitches made of this crap when there are athletics fields etc that people already know are very painful to just fall on, never mind if some giant slab of meat is tackling you?

[u/AllezLesPrimrose → u/Soopercow]

A proper Prunty grass-based pitch can easily hit €300,000 and that’s just the landed cost, never mind all the maintenance that is needed. Expensive is not something you can label at artificial pitches in this context, I’m afraid.

[u/EdTeeZ → u/Soopercow]

I think you’ve got the wrong end of it there. Installation might be expensive, but the main beneficiary of an artificial pitch is the clubs CFO. It gives it increased use, few maintenance and management costs, allows for full year use.

There are certain scenarios they are more appropriate than grass, in particular high altitude cold region, notably in France which will experience difficulties in grass maintenance and freezing.

I’m not here to justify them, standard pitches are far superior.

[u/Cybemen2]

it’s honestly ridiculous. clubs could absolutely afford to have actual grass installed.

have had the skin ripped off me multiple times and those cuts take ages to heal up I’ve found

[u/dwaynepebblejohnson3 → u/Cybemen2]

I had a cut from a regular grass pitch that I had issues with for 3 years after.

[u/k0bra3eak → u/Cybemen2]

I've seen players and coaching teams complain about infections being more common on 4G pitches after nasty scrapes, not to mention the lower limb injuries

[u/Educational_Play9910]

Great Britain and Ireland really need to invest in grass fields. Not only they have awful turf, the floodlights around the stadiums are shite. Plus, the gloomy, depressing weather makes viewing worse