r/slatestarcodex • u/AutoModerator • 16d ago
Monthly Discussion Thread
This thread is intended to fill a function similar to that of the Open Threads on SSC proper: a collection of discussion topics, links, and questions too small to merit their own threads. While it is intended for a wide range of conversation, please follow the community guidelines. In particular, avoid culture war–adjacent topics.
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u/thestinkystingray 10d ago
new AI thing someone made, seems quite good at writing in a specific style: https://echo.fulcrum.inc/try
It can do a reasonable Scott pastiche
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u/True-Shine-703 14d ago
How to build a quiet, self-respecting life of competence when traditional avenues of validation feel closed off?
I am nearing my late 20s, living in a low-income urban environment, and facing a reality where many traditional milestones of adulthood feel permanently out of reach.
Due to a highly sheltered upbringing (single mother, immigrant household, low income) and severe developmental/social delays (I didn't learn to tie my shoes until 13, and spent my youth escaping into fantasy worlds and games), I have reached adulthood with virtually zero social skills, no real-world connections, and severe self-image issues. I perceive myself as deeply physically unattractive, which keeps me homebound to avoid being seen and prevents me from making something of myself socially, financially, emotionally, and more.
I frequently find myself spiraling into nihilism and comparison:
- I compare myself to peers and just about anyone who had stable upbringings, is highly educated, attractive, and socially successful. I feel like a complete failure because I have accomplished nothing at an age where others are peaking.
- I struggle with an intense "all-or-nothing" perfectionism. If I cannot achieve peak physical health, a fulfilling romantic relationship, or a prestigious career, my brain tells me there is no point in trying at all.
I want to break out of this self-pity, but I need to be realistic. It is highly likely that traditional avenues of social, romantic, or high-status professional validation are closed off to me, or at least highly improbable.
How do you build a quiet, self-respecting life of personal competence under highly constrained, low-status conditions? How do you find a sense of daily meaning and self-worth when you have to accept that your life will likely remain small, isolated, modest? I would appreciate any philosophical perspectives or personal experiences from those who have carved out a sense of peace under similar limitations.
Thank you
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u/Rare_Regular9640 7d ago
How about starting by joining a club doing whatever kind of physical sport that you find most interesting (or least boring). Perhaps a kind of martial arts. Make improving your physical health into a habit instead of something you focus on and constantly measure yourself against an unrealistic ideal. Also, a sport club is a good way to gently start socializing with people different from yourself.
You could also get into classical art or music, as long as it is something that forces you to leave your house. Go draw urban landscapes or things at museums, perhaps attend a drawing class. The important thing is that it is something that brings you out of your own home, and away from the digital world. Also both music or classical art will make you part of a continous tradition, which helps you to not focus too hard on your self-image.
Both of these things at least helped me when I was in my twenties.
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u/slothtrop6 8d ago edited 8d ago
Your actions determine your identity. You have to be able to make peace with bad hands or bad decisions and move on. Many have been in a similar place so don't feel alone there. If you're honest with yourself about what you want and the sacrifices you're willing to make, it'll be a less bumpy road ahead.
I want to break out of this self-pity, but I need to be realistic. It is highly likely that traditional avenues of social, romantic, or high-status professional validation are closed off to me, or at least highly improbable.
You don't offer a clue as to what you want in terms of career, what interests you, or the education you have, just that you want validation. If you're good at your job and provide value you'll get it (it can even be had through different "status hierarchies", e.g. no one's going to tell you that a journeyman electrician pulling 6 figures is "low-status"). You can re-train or get a degree if you must, taking advantage of grants or other opportunities. I expect for most it's enough not to hate one's job, to make enough income to afford some niceties. Many make the switch from white collar to blue collar or vice versa. Ultimately it's a paycheck, and whether a job pays enough depends on your goals. For example, gwern, the writer popular in rationalist circles, has gone on record self-reporting a very low income sustaining his lifestyle. He's able to do what he wants; should he feel "low-status"? Demographics-wise, low-to-middle income earners seem no less likely to hook up with others (but may attract different partners).
A relationship is even more credible I think. The calculus isn't complicated. Self-esteem/respect/mindset, kind personality and steady income go a long ways, and improving your health boosts you further. You drastically underestimate your odds under those conditions. It will take time and effort, but so what.
Late 20s is still pretty young tbh. I squandered some good years then in misery, before finding firmer footing in my 30s (it wasn't all bad, but mostly). You're not doomed to feeling the way you do, but you have hard choices to make and work ahead.
I struggle with an intense "all-or-nothing" perfectionism. If I cannot achieve peak physical health, a fulfilling romantic relationship, or a prestigious career, my brain tells me there is no point in trying at all.
Often this is owing to difficulty tracking progress, as low or indeterminate feedback can make people feel their effort is fruitless. It's why a regular tracking regimen for weight loss, and "linear progression" programs for strength training, tend to be more successful, so you can be cognizant of tangible improvements. More to this effect in books like Atomic Habits I think.
when you have to accept that your life will likely remain small, isolated, modest?
You don't need to be isolated or modest, but it can be a preference. It does not sound like it's what you want.
The confidence comes with competence i.e. practice, that demands a bit of vulnerability. I 2nd the toastmasters rec, or meetup groups.
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u/Isha-Yiras-Hashem 10d ago
I am a stay at home mother, so I've managed to build a quiet, self respecting... all that you said. I spent years off line. You need to go screen less. Other things that could help include anti anxiety medication and getting a minimum wage job.
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u/fogrift 12d ago
Sorry mate, I know how hard it is to grow out of a stunted childhood with poor self confidence. Glad you're alert to the issue and on the lookout for fixes.
Late 20s is still young, I would recommend jumping out of your comfort zone into a new self-development period.
I hope you're not still living at home. Becoming an adult is a lot about actual boots on the ground in taking care of responsibilities as much as a mindset. If you have a solid career, move cities for a shakeup. If you're a NEET, join the navy or do a PhD (or join a monestary per the other comment).
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u/ignamv 14d ago
The nuclear option is to go full (secular) Buddhist and acquire a completely different value system from what society pushes. You'll still have to work on your issues though (but meditation complements therapy).
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u/True-Shine-703 13d ago
Is this something you've done yourself personally, and if so, what has your experience been like?
I guess my hesitancy for things like this is that if normal people don't do this / have to do this, is this still the solution? I guess a counterargument to that would be that "just because normal people don't need it doesn't mean it's not helpful. They're just fortunate enough to not have to explore these things. While even though you want to be successful like them, you have to address these problems that they don't have one way or another. In other words, different people have different needs and obstacles"
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u/ignamv 13d ago
Probably go to therapy to get a perspective from someone who's harder to bullshit than yourself / internet strangers. He will give you a better idea whether you have a lot of work to do or just have an inaccurate view of yourself.
Re: Buddhism, I phrased this provocatively, but it's not like you'll sign a monk contract on day 1. You can start meditating a bit, listening to dharma talks, seeing if that speaks to you, and seeing where in the spectrum between "monk" and "person who uses headspace for 5' a day" you want to be.
I had a 2-year period where I was meditating ~2h per day, then dropped out of the project, and now I'm pursuing it more lightly. Currently, I feel like it makes sense to have a backup plan in case I lose or fail to achieve the traditional markers of success like friends, family, money, fun, health.
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u/ruffello 14d ago
I don't have an answer but I'm in almost exactly the same situation and feel I could have written this post (except for the part about your upbringing).
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u/True-Shine-703 13d ago
Hope we figure something out and soon too. It's not an easy life. If I find anything that helps me, and I remember to check back, I'll let you know. But maybe stay tuned to this comment-post for helpful comments
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u/DuplexFields 14d ago
Attending an in-person Toastmasters meeting will do wonders for your self-confidence. You’ll meet a lot of folks on a journey surprisingly familiar, get networking opportunities, and get some good things on your resume. I recommend sticking with it through at least Level 2 of Pathways.
It’s also good to recognize you’re comparing yourself to the top 5% of success. The other 95% live invisible lives outside your scope of awareness.
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u/Early_Guest_8457 16d ago
Always weird seeing the monthly thread pop up and realizing another chunk of the year just evaporated. My parrot learned a new word this month so at least someone is being productive
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u/Degen_Typeracer 3d ago
Sparked by the Pinker debate, I've never actually read any of his works. Which of his works are still worth reading nowadays that have held the test of time?