[Standard] Anyone trying Oculus since FRA came out?

[u/VirgoGoonfold]

Dimir Oculus was a fringe deck that some tried to make work before, but I could only find two lists that were played on mtgo tournaments since FRA came out, one barely using anything new, and the other list is this:

https://mtgdecks.net/Standard/dimir-oculus-decklist-by-popeville-3115284

[[Dark Matter Manipulator]] and [[Seasoned Cryomancer]] are obvious nice additions imo, but beyond that, I'm not sure how to build the deck. The main dilemma is to Moonshadow or not to Moonshadow, ​in other words, is it better to take this deck in a more creature-heavy​ direction going harder on graveyard synergy, or to have more interaction? Before the new set, most people did the latter.

​I'm now leaning towards that​​ myself after trying it both ways, cause I'm not sure if we can race most of the other creature heavy decks (Landfall​/​Lizards, etc)​ while just having 4 pieces of interaction. But then again, maybe we can. I even tried [[​Souls of the Lost]] with 3 [[​Qarsi Revenant]] in the shell which is cool when it pops off, but then the deck is also very vulnerable to graveyard hate past game 1.​​

I ​currently just run Oculus, Cryomancer/Manipulator, Balemurk and a few Quantum Riddlers. The rest is ​interaction, some Winternright Stories. But it's a work in progress.

Anyone has thoughts on the archetype?

[u/IJWTSOMF]

Hi. This is my list and my buddy played it in the challenge.

The Qarsi are by far the most cuttable MD cards and the sideboard is a complete mess. We put the last 17 cards together 30 minutes before the challenge. There isn't really a great plan for post board games specifically against RIP, and kaito doesn't even really check the box as the white decks have Erode.

The rest of the shell is really solid imo. I don't really want to add a 3rd color as the mana is already a bit weird with the early black requirements and double blue want on T3.

If you can figure out a decent sideboard plan vs RIP and spend a few minutes on the mana I think the deck has legs.

[u/ScaryPi]

I’ve got a build I’ve been having success with. [[Moonshadow]] is worth for the synergy with [[likeness looter]] or being flipped from occulus. [[mockingbird]] is great copying one drops or occulus. Still testing but [[Liliana the repentant]] is a surprisingly strong mill engine that helps recover from grave exile.

Also, it’s basically free to run [[practiced offense]] in this deck and you should cuz it’s so strong. I run 3 spell pierce and bitter triumph as the only interaction.

[u/MaybeSurelySorta]

I’m a fan of the list Doomwake was playing recently with Moonshadow, Likeness Looters, and both Cryomancer and Manipulators so if you’re looking for more inspiration on lists and how to play it then I’d head over to his stream/youtube.

As for my thoughts on the archetype, I’m not exactly convinced a Dimir shell is better than Azorius with Helping Hand and Practiced Offense.

[u/Repigilican → u/MaybeSurelySorta]

return of the mountain king as a 1x also isn't bad.

[u/la_tortue]

Are you looking for a bo3 list that's resilient against post-board gy hate or are you mostly interested in bo1?

Last season I got to Mythic without too much struggle in bo1 with an Azorius version of the deck that played 4x Most Decrepit Old Bird, 4x Picklock Prankster, 4x Cosmogrand Zenith, 4x Abhorrent Oculus and, my secret tech: 4x Doorkeeper Thrull which turned out to be extremely important against most of the BS I was facing, especially reanimator, artifacts and lifegain. When I ran against Rest in Peace / too much graveyard hate I'd focus on the Cosmogrand + small flyers plan, aided by Practiced Offense to punch their face in.

Feels like losing Helping Hand by going Dimir would be costly, but I don't know. I just watched Doomwake's recent video and the reanimation plan looked pretty weak in comparison.

[u/ScaryPi → u/la_tortue]

Having a plan B for RIP is definitely important to be competitive. How often do you helping hand occulus out T2-3? I feel like reanimating it has diminishing returns the later you pull it off.

[u/la_tortue → u/ScaryPi]

T2 is rare, it only comes off a lucky surveil from 4x Meticulous Archive. The main mill engine is the 2-mana adventures from the 8 flyers, so turn 3 is more realistic, but you still have to mill both Oculus and Helping Hand, or already have the latter in hand, so more often than not you'd still have to bide your time.

A later Helping Hand can still be great because cheap spells are at a premium with Cosmogrand, or just to combine reanimation + removal + hold up No More Lies or something.

[u/unhaunting]

I tested it a bunch recently, it's the most playable it's been in a while but it still feels like it's hovering just below the threshold of greatness. I think you cut rals and winternights before you ever touch moonshadows, this is effectively an aggro deck that wants to hit the ground running. The rest in peace plan is duress, spell snare, hopes and dreams.

[u/ScaryPi → u/unhaunting]

Winternight isn’t great to hardcast but it’s so good as a 1 mana reload from the graveyard. I think that along with practiced offense and occulus are the best arguments for self mill over traditional aggro.

[u/unhaunting → u/ScaryPi]

Oh yes, practiced offense feels like it needs to be in this no matter what

[u/PM_UR_FAV_COMPLIMENT]

Funny you mention Oculus, because this just top 8'ed a challenge last night.

[u/Ardonas → u/PM_UR_FAV_COMPLIMENT]

I've been trying this list and I like it a lot, but I do think there's room to perfect this. I'm curious to see if anyone has tried tinkering with the board yet: it feels like there's a lot of overlap in the spot removal, and i want to cut too many cards against control.

[u/GlitteringFood8477]

I am playing a version with moonshadows and likeness looter (which seems very close to what you posted.). Its ok, when it does the thing it's a beast, when you stumble its awful. Clearly is too early to know for sure, but i think there are better things to do in reanimation. I went back to Sultai reanimator, testing.

[u/whyhwy]

https://moxfield.com/decks/0ScVPlTdhUKvgdV4OlrX_g Kind of a disorganized list but it’s Esper Oculus

White allows you to play Practiced offense which is insane damage. You can also hit it off the manifest trigger

Another card that’s interesting is [[Spacetime Anomaly]] vs slower interactive decks. I’ve played that with the one mana U guy that mills off of instants and sorceries

[u/MF_LUFFY → u/whyhwy]

What's up with the Fenrir?

[u/whyhwy → u/MF_LUFFY]

I was testing it out and since removed but with helping hand it was 1 mana draw a card ramp usually and you could sometimes cast it off of starting town. It would also sac itself so you could recur it if your hand is all reanimate effects

[u/madamefromagio]

Ashlizze has been playing this kind of shell with moonshadow to pretty good success. Big fan of eyeshadow tbh

[u/PotageAuCoq]

I think it is a mistake to not play superior Spider-Man in a shell like this.

[u/VirgoGoonfold → u/PotageAuCoq]

Never seen anyone do that, and I don't see why we should. There are better ways to cheat out Oculus, and frankly even hard casting it is very feasible with this much self mill. Why would we need a 4 mana reanimator spell in this deck?

[u/Clear_Inspector_9796 → u/VirgoGoonfold]

Hard agree. Spiderman is for cheating out creatures with etb on cast. Oculus is for cheap fast rezzies. Control vs aggro