r/spikes • u/PowderedMerkin • 3d ago

Standard [Standard] What deck has a positive matchup against Dimir Reanimator?

It has a lot of enchantment/artifact removal in the sideboard for graveyard hate, Caverns makes countering the reanimation unreliable, and the density of value creatures lets them rebuild after a board wipe. Not sure what aggro decks can finish the game before turn 4. What's the right angle of attack against this deck?

25 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

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28

u/Diligent-Cream-6535 3d ago

Average deck I think. Before FRA, Reanimator decks dont even get 50% WR. They get some cards from FRA but I dont think that improves a lot.

If you just want a deck to beat them then I suggest Jund sac

14

u/PowderedMerkin 3d ago

The deck got some new additions like Cryomancer and Dark Matter Manipulator that improve consistency and give them a different angle of attack. It's just tough to target this deck specifically without losing to everything else in the meta as a result.

7

u/Diligent-Cream-6535 3d ago

I don't know if you are talking about the living end deck or the Excruciator or the Excruciator variant that don't use Excruciator. But since you are saying Dimir so I guess it's Excruciator.

I was a Excruciator player, and after FRA I also try Excruciator. It's fun but not something I'd play in RCQ/RC. It's so hard to play against good players that know how to beat the deck. It slightly improve consistency but not too much. While other deck can still consistently beat it.

To beat Excruciator, you just play your main plan instead of sideboard too much.

Excruciator isn't a turn 4 deck, it actually need 6 lands to work in most cases, and often they just stuck at 5 lands. Jund Sac, Landfall, or aggro like Mardu Discard all good against Excruciator. Their turn 4 play is powerful, but a turn 4 Deceit or Uldaros Theorix is just let them keep alive, not winning game. While other decks' turn 4/5 is trying to win the game.

However the Living End Reanimator seems good now from what my test partner said but I haven't try it.

2

u/Lobster556 3d ago

Uldaros is not a game-ending threat? Come on. Two 5 power fliers and often a Stock Up and a removal spell, all from one card.

I've seen a lot of lists running only 2 Excruciators, it seems like a plan B rather than the main win con.

3

u/Diligent-Cream-6535 3d ago

What you said is the perfect scenario that doesn't often come, and even if in this scenario, many decks can still win against this. Standard is not what it like many years ago. What if landfall still have a creature? Mardu discard have a cool but rude online? Jund Sac cast a lively dirge with many artifacts token? Even spellelements can still flash a carb.  It's turn 4, every deck have a powerful play that can just win.

Excruciators is not main win con and it's actually very weak. However this deck still need it because other standard decks can win against you out of nowhere even if you have a great board with many midrange creatures on it, so you have to resolve an excruciator as inevitability.

1

u/Lobster556 3d ago

If I remember correctly from tournament summaries, Excruciator tends to be a low play rate, high win rate deck.

3

u/Diligent-Cream-6535 3d ago

Only in Pro Tour Lorwyn. And that's more because Christoffer Larsen got lucky (he played well too).

After that it's not.

-5

u/Sardonic_Fox 3d ago

In Bo1 current meta has them at like 60%, IIRC

9

u/Diligent-Cream-6535 3d ago

But OP mentioned sideboard... I thought it's bo3?

0

u/Sardonic_Fox 3d ago

Whelp, I just skipped right over that line, ha

3

u/Numerous-Syllabub225 3d ago

UW Control with 4 Demolition Field 🤣

7

u/No_Regret_714 3d ago

Check out Mythic Mike's recent mono-white weenies deck. It's an aggro deck with Doorkeeper Thrull, which completey wrecks the renanimator deck.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6GHZK68a0Ag

15

u/DustTheHunter 3d ago

Bo1 😭😭😭

6

u/Sardonic_Fox 3d ago

I busted out laughing so hard when he dropped the [[Doorkeeper Thrull]] in response to the Kav/SSM

Such a good line that no one sees coming

3

u/No_Regret_714 3d ago

I suspect that deck is going to take off. It's the best deck I've seen him put together. Skeletons with United Battlefront wasn't novel; others were doing that deck too. But I haven't seen anyone else with this weenies deck he's running.

3

u/TomahawkTuah 3d ago

Yeah I'm not a big fan of his skills or personality, but he was cooking with that one

4

u/MRCHalifax 3d ago

I appreciate as a deck builder. I can’t stand watching his videos. The way he keeps saying baby is like nails on a chalkboard for me.

1

u/Verdreckt 3d ago

"Let's goo bayybe are you freakin joking??"

I don't mind him but he definitely does reek of used car salesman energy 😂

1

u/jsreyn 2d ago

I thought I was the only one. It drives me so crazy, I cant watch the vids OR play the decks. Like the decks are infected with it.

2

u/PowderedMerkin 3d ago

Interesting! I maindeck Thrull is definitely spicy, and with so many 1-drops, I could see it going under the reanimator decks.

1

u/ByzokTheSecond 3d ago

Is thrull better than torpor orb? I feel like dodgine removal is a relevant upside here, no?

4

u/Dyne_Inferno 3d ago

Thrull will always be better than Torpor Orb.

This issue is, not every deck has access to White.

1

u/No_Regret_714 3d ago

In this weenies deck I like Thrull because in other matchups it's still a creature that contributes to the aggro game plan. Torpor Orb is a dead card in many matchups.

1

u/Morignus 3d ago

[[Karn, Argent Defender]] was also printed but definitely harder to make work without flash

1

u/troop357 3d ago

I wonder what that deck looks like coming to bo3! It surely is strong for bo1 (regardless of anyone thinks about bo1).

2

u/PowderedMerkin 3d ago

The same question goes for some of the more recent variants, like Sultai.

2

u/BeBetterMagic 3d ago

Anything that can go wide enough to blank their single target removal and have counters for their sweepers will grind just fine.

Otherwise things like boros tokens that go wide and fast, you punish them if they don't find sweepers

2

u/nancyglass 3d ago

I think mill ironically works best against graveyard strategies like that. You mainly want to keep control of the match with [[Strategic Betrayal]] and things like playing [[Deceit]] into a [[Deadly Cover-up]] to extract their spider dudes or bringer of the last gift. Also have [[Leyline of the Void]] or [[Ghost Vacuum]] in the sideboard. Then just mill them out however you choose, excruciator or singularity rupture/river churn monument.

2

u/Ihatedallas 3d ago

I play dimir mill and can usually do well. It’s often a speed issue though, if I can’t remove the right cards from hand or they just get the exact right cards in the graveyard and have spiderman it’s kinda just it. Reminds me of greasefang in pioneer but greasefang is so much more annoying

1

u/confIdentIy_wrong 3d ago

If you resolve a torpor orb on turn 3/4 the game gets a looooot harder for them. Most of the value the deck gets is from ETBs.

1

u/PowderedMerkin 3d ago

Ah that's a good point. They can still build a big board, but no ETBs makes rebuilding a lot harder if you can sweep

1

u/jimbo_extreme1 3d ago

Black white lifegain does well. Its a very versatile deck that can survive board clears. Most importantly Its hard for reanimator to run topor orb because reanimator also wants etb. So it is either awkward to make it work when siding or you don't use it at all.

I don't know the actual winrate, but its probably one of the decks I am most afraid of. Its just so versatile. They have so much card advantage and card types(enchantment, planeswalker, creatures). They win from board, they win from grave, or they win from just having raw card advantage.

General aggro works well too. Its a pretty slow deck

1

u/gavineese 3d ago

It doesn't do well vs aggro decks like prowess. It has a hard time keeping up with multiple early threats.

I find the deck easy to play around as a mono g landfall player. Stick a few early threats early on and get as much damage. You have a good window when they tap out for excruciator, like saving a harmonizer to pump enough for lethal.

The new versions these days play uldaros and most decks doesn't use excruciator anymore. I havent played vs the new version much but it seems to be performing better

1

u/goldenwarthog_ 3d ago

Dwarves with the hexproof sword

1

u/Hustlasaurus 3d ago

My mono red raid deck crushes reanimator. When it finishes the job it does so before turn 4. It's great cause often they help me by not being able to get a demon out fast enough so a couple pings from their stupid enchantment really help. Also the plethora of low value creatures means they are often trading removal for a 1 CMC creature.

1

u/LexExpress666 3d ago

My blue tempo deck just happens to main deck three Agatha's Soul Cauldron. Between those, Tishana's Tidebinder, and counterspells, a lot has to go their way for that deck to beat me. I'll bring in a Glen Elendra's Answer and maybe an Annul when sideboarding.

1

u/hronikbrent 3d ago

As a sultai reanimator player, I really hate staring down a turn 1 [[veteran survivor]] in the mono white enchantments list. It basically feels like if they stick it with any piece of ward or hexproof, it’s over

1

u/famous__shoes 3d ago

Lot of people saying torpor orb and [[rest in peace]] also seems good against it. Artifacts has both in the side board

1

u/Icy_Week4642 3d ago

Torpor orb lets it play Deceit as a 5/5 on turn 2/3 tho

1

u/Truckfighta 3d ago

I’d assume you also run removal.

1

u/dd463 3d ago

Unless they chain a bunch of elementals together, a vanilla 5/5 is surprisingly underpowered.

1

u/Dux89 3d ago

My Selesnya Offense deck does just fine against it. I have tutorable graveyard hate mainboard (1x) and targeted removal hates Pawpatch Recruit and Surrak.

1

u/CronoDAS 3d ago

Landfall works well enough. Just beat them down or combo them out.

1

u/Paradoxbuilder 3d ago

I play Dimir Mid and I love being matched up against Reanimator. They only have Bitter Triumph and Awaken to deal with Kaito, who wrecks them if he comes out early. They have to use 2 spells for EC. You can remove Ardyn (tho you die to the combo kill)

That's Game 1. Game 2 you have Strategic Betrayal!

1

u/VoidHammer89 3d ago

As an avid Dimir/Sultai Scam player, I tend to have my worst games against Aggro decks that can flood the board and lay on damage before Turn 4. GY Hate isn't super annoying because I can usually account for it via Duress/Deceit or just hard cast my big guys.

1

u/Much_Huckleberry6654 2d ago

I don't know about decks built to beat reanimator that don't get stomped by anything else, but a fun way to play back at it is Kutzil Flanker. Flash white creature that can exile an opponent's graveyard. You play it in response to their Kavero / Superior Spiderman.

The simpler option is to kill them fast and sideboard in graveyard hate