r/swampthing • • 3d ago

Vol. 1 Am I missing something with Alan Moore’s swamp thing? I can’t get into it

Post image

I’ve tried to get into Alan Moore’s swamp thing multiple times throughout my life but I always find parts of the story overcomplicated and hard to get into for my taste.

Parts like Vegetation Man and some other parts like a lot of characters being introduced here and there with bizarre powers, I don’t feel it’s as good of an introduction as people painted it as.

43 Upvotes

67 comments sorted by

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u/Kontarek Gregori Arcane 3d ago

I bounced off issue #20 many times because no one told me Moore was wrapping up the previous storyline with it. I found it much easier to get into his run after I’d read all of the older issues from the 70s and 80s, though not all of them are super essential.

The most crucial prior issues for a smooth onramp into Moore’s run are issues #1-3 of the 70s comic by Len Wein (though reading all 13 of Wein’s issues will give you even more context) and issues #16-19 of the 80s comic by Martin Pasko. With Wein’s issues you’ll see the origin of the character and the introduction of his chief allies and nemesis; with those last few Pasko issues you’ll see the full context of the story that Moore writes the conclusion to in issue #20.

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u/wildmaiden 3d ago

I disagree that you need to read any of the prior Swamp Thing to understand Moores run. Issue 20 does wrap up some stuff, but he does a good enough job after that reintroducing anything that matters.

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u/Kontarek Gregori Arcane 3d ago

I don’t think it’s needed to understand Moore either, but it does make the start less confusing and his run more enjoyable overall. I’m also only recommending 7 of the old issues here which I think give the biggest payoff and not all 43 of the ones that preceded Moore’s tenure.

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u/Lich-hull 3d ago

Appreciate the guidance thank you, I just don’t agree this is the perfect jumping on point for Swamp Thing

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u/Kontarek Gregori Arcane 3d ago

The older collected editions actually used to start at issue #21 since #20 is so disorienting for anyone coming in fresh. But I still think it’s better to at least read those small handful of earlier issues first since there are some major payoffs in Moore’s run that won’t land without them.

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u/Tanthiel 3d ago

I'd agree that Pasko's 19 issues are probably a better starting point for Moore's run, there are a ton of plot lines that Moore resolves, it's just the problem with pretentious Moore fans discounting anything that doesn't have his name on it.

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u/Kontarek Gregori Arcane 3d ago

The first 13 issues of Pasko’s run introduce some characters who show up later, but they are IMO a convoluted mess and one of the big low points of the entire comic. I consider Len Wein’s earlier issues from the 70s far higher quality and much more essential to establishing the mythos of the character so I always recommend starting there.

#14-15 are a one-off story by a guest writer, and they’re not bad, but I don’t think the 80s series really finds its footing until Bissette and Totleben take over as the artists in issue #16. The jump in quality between 15 and 16 is genuinely staggering, and I think Moore benefited immensely from the timing of that switch.

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u/yellorpheus 2d ago

It is a starting point but a tedious and an unrewarding one. The plot just screams Indiana Jones knock off at times.

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u/dbree801 3d ago

Might just not be for you. I jumped in with very little comic experience and got right into it. It’s still probably my favorite series.

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u/crywalt 3d ago

Yeah, it might not be OP's thing, and that's fine. I started reading when the comics were new but didn't come in until #25, and actually didn't get to #26 for literally 20 years. I started collecting it with #28. I definitely didn't understand everything -- I didn't know characters like the Spectre, Deadman, or the Phantom Stranger, for example. And Alan Moore tends to throw in *a lot*. I'm not sure anyone but Moore himself really finds all the easter eggs. But I loved it!

This is a bit odd to say, but maybe it's the coloring in the collected editions. The new colors are pretty garish. Tatjana Wood's colors helped set the tone. It sounds minor but it could be hard to get immersed if the colors aren't right.

But really it's possible this isn't for you, OP. Maybe you want something like Astonishing X-Men by Whedon and Cassaday or Terry Moore's Rachel Rising.

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u/dbree801 3d ago

I didn’t read it until well after release and had the benefit of the internet to research characters I wasn’t familiar with at the time.
I’ve heard a lot about the colors being an issue but I really liked the coloring in the collection I read (pictured by OP) and I believe that was re-colored. It’s all I know.

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u/crywalt 3d ago

Incidentally, it's cool you got to read it with easily available reference material. Back in my day we didn't have the internet! We could only talk to our friends, who were just as young and ignorant as we were.

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u/crywalt 3d ago

All collected editions are recolored. It's impossible to use the original color plates because they're all gone and so are the presses to use them. The best thing publishers could do is scan original printings and reprint those, but there isn't a lot of appetite for that, apparently. Different editions have wildly different color jobs. One of the more recent ones was clearly an attempt to be fancy but the colorist went crazy, using all kinds of colors in a slapdash way, and also they added and removed things from the art, so that was very bad.

All that said, I'm not an expert on collected editions (I prefer original comics and even there I'm getting out of collecting because I'm old) so I can't tell you which editions are better or worse. There was a black and white edition some years back, which I asked to get for Xmas, but Santa never came through.

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u/garethom 2d ago

Yep, OP, sometimes stuff just isn't your thing. I know a lot of discourse on the internet now is very "optimisation"-heavy; what's the best X? Where should I start with Y? How should I do Z? and that can make it feel like you're doing something wrong if you don't like the same stuff, but with this stuff, there isn't a fixed path.

If you've given it a good go, and you don't like it, that's ok. Move on.

For me, after a long time away from comics, I picked up the first TPB of his run on a whim because I saw a designer on IG recommend it, and it re-started my love for the medium. It's probably still my favourite series.

But everybody likes different things. That's part of the excitement of life. Go and find something you love and tell people about it.

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u/suddenvole 3d ago

Don't push yourself to read something you aren't enjoying. Life is waaay too short.

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u/Amigorama 3d ago

Perfectly fine. I could never get into Xmen, but Swamp Thing by Moore is one of my favorites.

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u/ElricVonDaniken 3d ago

Yeah. Not even Grant Morrison could make the Xmen interesting for me. We all like different stuff and that's cool.

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u/reymux 2d ago

I've heard od several people for which Hickman's X-Men, specifically House and Powers of X, finally did the trick.

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u/Moff-77 3d ago

Personally, I love it, but it may not be for you. There’s no rule or law that says you have to love Alan Moore’s work

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u/GoldenProxy 3d ago

Keep reading, like others have said Moore’s first arc is wrapping up elements of the previous run and setting Swamp Thing in the direction he wants him to go in. The arcs that follow are really where the run begins (even though some of those early issues are still fantastic).

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u/No-Cry2473 3d ago

I like Len Wein’s original stories and I think they’re better introduction to the character. They’re collected in omnibus form or (I think) in some trade paperbacks.

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u/Bloody-Tyran 3d ago

That’s fine. Swamp Thing by himself is hard to get into. I myself avoided (more having other priorities than actively avoiding) Swamp Thing because I didn’t quite catch the appeal. Eventually I set myself to read DC magnum Opus and Swamp Thing A.M. saga was often brought. I directly skipped everything else and had a great albeit slow paced read.

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u/Dooley011 3d ago

I always found it frustrating how the trades thrust you into the conclusion of an arc, I wish the earlier issues were presented to make it easier for new readers. Thankfully, with the new Omnibus, this will be split differently and make it easier for new readers and old to engage into the stories. The first Omni, split into two volumes, ends at Issue 15 of "The Saga of the Swamp Thing", and the Alan Moore omnibus begins at Issue 16, instead of 20, as the trades have been collecting it. Finally you'll get the arc prior to its concluding issue to make it easier to understand what's going on. 

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u/turnbeach 3d ago

I think the Moore swamp thing is a great run, but it’s the middle of a series. I recommending reading the original first ten issues, which are amazing, and the Saga of the Swamp thing from 1 to where Moore comes in. He continues the world in new and interesting ways, but I think you lose a lot jumping right to issue 20 or so.

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u/Medelsnygg 3d ago

Absolutely read the first ten issues of the Wein/Wrightson.

If you can find the Pasko run (volume 2 until moore) in a library, go for it. There are some plot elements in there that Moore would later use and expand upon but it's not essential reading. It's very much a "freak of the week" book with a convoluted overarching plot.

Unless you can find 1-19 in a library, don't bother. The edition I have comes with a preamble that explains how the characters got to where they are in #20

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u/Agreeable-Cat-3906 3d ago

I can’t believe they never end Book One with #28 “The Burial”, even in the recent “Compact” edition. It is such a perfect ending right before the book REALLY gets going.
If you do get through book one, some of the best issues are right near the beginning of Book Two, the “Love and Death” storyline.
My absolute favorite comic issue of all time, though, is #53 “The Garden of Earthly Delights”. I have still never read anything better.

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u/HeyThereYouAreCool 3d ago

Issue #20 is jarring. They should note that Moore is essential cleaning house with the issue, moving pieces off of the board to make room for the story he wants to tell.

He does draw from the history of the character, especially in the early arcs, but once you hit “American Gothic” it really becomes uniquely Moore.

One of the things I kept telling myself was the fact this is clearly a product of the time, even if Moore is a visionary. He overwrites on occasion (describing what we can see on the page), which can make his run read a lot slower than most comics.

Because of these factors (and others), I can see how some people bounce off. It’s definitely not for everyone, and that’s totally fine OP.

I think it’s a masterpiece, but also a 4.5/5 because of some of the things I listed, haha. It’s a unique experience.

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u/LeonardoMyst 3d ago

The American Gothic storyline is still my favorite and is the source of my appreciation for DC’s mystic heroes.

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u/the_executive_branch 3d ago

The monster of the week stuff at the start is legitimately some of my favourite stuff in all comics. Very much my taste. Might just not be your thing

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u/Bulky-Pollution-4996 3d ago

Maybe that kind of complicated just isn't your thing. That's perfectly fine. Not everything is for everyone. SWAMP THING has a LONG history. The earlier, Len Wein (and, later, Marty Pasko) stories were more of a Hammer/Universal monster movie vibe. Moore's gets psychological and surreal. Later writers bring different vibes.

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u/theandrew13 3d ago

It starts slow for the first book or two. By the middle part (book 3) to the end it was really good, pretty much once Constantine shows up it got a lot better.

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u/Benji_1984 3d ago

Just because a lot of people like something, doesn't mean you will. I could never get into Grant Morrison's Batman, despite reading the first two omnibus volumes. And that's considered one of, if not THE best Batman story.

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u/GhoulSchool_Official 3d ago

My first was Ram V Swamp Thing which is a weird jumping on point but was not hard to follow or get into. Maybe try his run.

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u/surfpearl39 3d ago

I’m really not sure what story parts you would find overcomplicated.

Are you starting Swamp Thing with Alan Moore or Len Wein? I would highly suggest starting with Wein’s run before moving to Moore’s.

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u/N1ce-Marmot 3d ago

Ugggh, you just reminded me I lost my copy of this. Wanna mail me yours?

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u/peddlinghermit0012 3d ago

Smoke a bowl and try again

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u/mighty3mperor 3d ago

Taste is subjective, so it is OK not to like this.

If you are into horror comics, then try the earlier material as it is good stuff. The Dark Genesis Omnibus collects it all.

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u/hypochondriacfilmguy 3d ago

What, the ''... meet the sun '' part didn't make you cry?

Maybe try to delete tiktok for your phone?

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u/AnalRomeo 3d ago

It's fine if you don't like. Have you tried reading the Wein/Wrightson stories?

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u/Low_Wall_7828 2d ago

No, if you don’t like it you don’t like it.

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u/jackknightlight 2d ago

Sometimes things just don’t speak to us. They don’t hit us at the right time in our lives. We just don’t identify with anything going on based on our other interests or it’s just not our thing. That’s totally cool, and swamp thing is never one of my number one recommended reads unless I know people are into a certain genre or mood. As comic shop history goes, when swamp thing first came out and everybody read that first issue it became clear this was a comic that would stay on your nightstand for the entire month. You weren’t going to read it in five minutes and never look at it again, you were going to do your quick read, then your deep dive, and then a reread of certain parts in between other comics of the time. Miller’s daredevil was a lot like that as well. These comics were popular. People discussed them, debated them, talked about where the literary influences came from or the metaphysical influences, and even if the science was possible at a fictional level. It was no different than talking about whether the Hulk could beat up Superman, but at a different scale and it made comics feel grown up. It may sound cliche now, but it was a book that for the first time you could hand it to somebody who never read a comic, but you knew they loved fantasy, Gothic horror, or science fiction and they would come back a fan. When somebody came up with a reference you never heard of, if there weren’t copies on the shelf for everybody to grab and look through it while talking about it then you would go home and you would look at it again. It was that kind of book. That experience is so hard to recreate in the modern era. If possible, and I know originals are expensive and hard to come by, but pick up the facsimile edition of issue 21, with the newsprint paper and the bleeding inks and the 80s ads. Put it on your nightstand, and read every inch of that book. Push the comic in close to your face as much as you can for hard to read dialogue and stretch it as far away as you can to look at the panel layouts and how wild and crazy they are. That’s hard to recreate with a TP or an omnibus. Take your time with it and read every ad and every letter in the letters column. If after that you are not excited to read another issue and if that doesn’t work for you, then it probably is just worth revisiting at a later time.

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u/duskvstw3ak 2d ago

A heart

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u/arkatraziii 2d ago

You have to grind through 2 issues to get to anatomy lesson. Once you read anatomy lesson it sets the tone of the entire run.

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u/joseph_dewey 2d ago

I'm a huge Swamp Thing fan and Alan Moore's series was really hard for me to get into too.

Still, I currently appreciate it more for the significance of what it did for the comic book industry than I appreciate his actual writing on the series.

But now after it's been a couple decades I currently love it. For me, what he did was just overhyped compared to what I love about Swampy.

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u/fishfan2099 2d ago

I don't like it either. And I love Miracleman, From Hell, and Watchmen.

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u/makwa227 2d ago

Not all of Moore's issues are brilliant. Issue #21, Moore's second issue, is one of the best of the series. He slowly brings us into a highly volatile situation and overturns the core concept of the series in an extremely clever way. You start off the issue confused yet intrigued, but finish the issue feeling exhausted (in a good way). 

Then he immediately transitions into another story about an insane doctor who finds himself with powers that allow him to impose his craziness onto others. Meanwhile, the protagonist has gone impotent from the shock of the revelation of the previous issue. 

Moore uses his characters in new and clever ways and takes them on highly emotional journeys of self discovery. Meanwhile, he plays with the format of comics, the language, the plot shape, in very creative and interesting ways. 

If OP started reading with issue #35, the Nukeface Papers, I can understand why he would find it underwealming. If he started with #21, maybe he just doesn't appreciate suspense, as a motif in his comics. I, myself, am indifferent to horror as a genre because I shut down when I find media trying to manipulate my feelings. With that said, I find the cleverness of Moore's work highly exciting. There is no other writer that I know of that can manipulate concepts in the way Moore does. 

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u/Latter_History_9052 2d ago

I tried reading the sandman 3 times and the invisible's 2 times. I could not get into them. Sometimes a critically acclaimed comic book series just doesn't do it for you. And you don't see the hype in it.

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u/whatsbobgonnado 1d ago

they're cool horror stories 

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u/Fit_Commercial3421 1d ago

It takes a little to get going , but I also wouldn't recommend it as a first swampy run. Swamp thing is like Daredevil in a way were he has a definitive starting point in the Wen and Wrightson run. I would recommend at least those first 13 issues if you're problem is your feeling like your starting in the middle like I did. If not and the comic isn't your thing the snyder or ram V run might be a better or more modern start.

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u/Candid-Doughnut7919 3d ago

Outside the Anatomy Lesson, I didn't like it at all until midway through, then I loved it and now it's one of my favorite comics ever. Keep trying.

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u/Ghetto_Mack_G 3d ago

If for no other reason, the vampire storyline Martin Pasko introduced in Saga is worth the read to better understand the context later on in Moore’s run. One of the truly terrifying tales Moore ever wrote and such an unexpected delight to see that followed up.

I recall buying the Saga issues as a young boy but dropping out by #13. Dumb me. Once I rediscovered it several years later as a teenager after Moore’s run became acclaimed, I had to pay some bucks to get those back issues. Ah well.

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u/sneakerscomicsgames 3d ago

I guess it’s not for you. Hopefully plenty of stuff out there you’ll enjoy more. Personally I love Moore’s run, top 3 of his work for me.

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u/brabbs316 3d ago

I really enjoyed it as well. Quite ahead of its time i thought. That said, I do think Snyder/Soule run is the definitive Swamp Thing

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Lich-hull 3d ago

Appreciate the kinder comment, comic fandom is rough at the moment

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u/Andale_anhirap99 3d ago

Jumped into this straight in with the box set of 6 volumes, but couldn’t get past anatomy lesson. 2 years later, I restarted with loose ends and got past the 1st volume. Now I’m about 2/3s of the 2nd and enjoying the ride. It’s definitely AN experience (especially early moore stuff when he’s trying to break new ground).

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u/Yetticon80 3d ago

Blasphemy

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u/mixedpixel 3d ago edited 3d ago

I think it was good for it's time, maybe. I tried to read it recently (after buying all 3 Absolute's 😱) and was disappointed and bored.

When I was younger I remember being blown away by Sandman, went back recently and was quite underwhelmed.

I feel similarly for Preacher.

Sometimes you just grow out of these things. Even those you haven't read. 😅

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u/the_idiot_sandwich91 3d ago

I just think re reading something will make a lot of things "whelming"

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u/mixedpixel 3d ago

Agreed.

Sometimes it's also that the rest of the genre or medium supercedes what came before.

I remember being warned by my parents about how violent Clockwork Orange was, when I finally got around to seeing it, I thought it was pretty tame. I'd seen a lot worse on regular tv.

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u/JumboSquidster 3d ago

How far have you gotten?

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u/Sweaty-Performance92 3d ago

Good taste apparently

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u/i_am_randy 3d ago

I have a YouTube channel covering the first 30 or so issues of Moore’s Swamp Thing. It might be helpful in helping you get into it to know a little more background on what’s going on. If you’d like a link please let me know.

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u/Lich-hull 3d ago

Sure

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u/i_am_randy 3d ago

Here you go. Please keep in mind the episodes get better as we go along. We were still brand new in the earliest issues.

https://youtube.com/@postcrisischat?si=qNbUIKv3lWOvcXJJ

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u/Alone-Two1441 4h ago

Idk it’s like the best comic run ever imo lol it might just not be your thing