r/waterford • u/Tayto_blaa • 9h ago
Why the hell have they not been charged with murder
https://www.waterford-news.ie/news/breaking-man-and-women-charged-in-connection-with-birchwood-fire-are-named-in-court_arid-20331540.html12
u/davyboy1975 9h ago
not yet they havent, they will be though
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u/Deisesupes 9h ago
Investigations still ongoing. Once a file is sent to the DPP, they will decide what charges to put forward. You’d imagine that manslaughter will be the most serious they’ll face.
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u/Particular-Irishman 9h ago
Agree with most of what you say but from reading about it and listening to the podcast, there's mention of something thrown into the house that trapped them. If the person/persons done that surely that's not just simple manslaughter?
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u/Deisesupes 8h ago
It would have to be proven that the intent was to murder.
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u/Routine_Fun5564 8h ago
Someone can be found guilty of murder in Ireland if they intend to kill, or intend to seriously harm. You'd imagine a jury would consider throwing a petrol bomb at a house enough to qualify as intention to cause serious harm, which can be enough to find someone guilty of murder.
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u/Deisesupes 8h ago
That’s absolutely true but seemingly very rare in this country. They will select the charge that they can best match to the evidence. Although an intention to cause serious injury can be sufficient for a murder charge, it might not be easy here.
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u/Mountain-Age393 8h ago
Don’t know how true it is, but I heard the back door was blocked so they couldn’t get out.
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u/slamjam25 9h ago
“I swear your honour, I really believed the house would be totally vacant at 5am” will get them out of a murder charge.
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u/IndependenceNaive751 9h ago
"we were just supposed to scare them not kill them" manslaughter, no intent
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u/Affectionate_Let1462 9h ago
I doubt it will get to murder to be honest. But more serious charges coming. The state won’t be able to prove they set out to kill.
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u/Pitiful-Mongoose-488 9h ago
They’ll be charged with facilitating a criminal gang which i think has a hefty sentence with it
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u/slamjam25 9h ago
It has a hefty sentence jn theory, not necessarily in reality.
Burning down a house with kids in it (but getting lucky and not killing them) in theory has a life sentence. In reality you get sixteen months for it.
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u/Affectionate_Let1462 9h ago
If they cooperate in the investigation of who gave the order they may end up in witness protection.
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8h ago
[deleted]
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u/davyboy1975 8h ago
He isn't homeless and is just out of prison so would definitely have connections
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u/slamjam25 5h ago edited 3h ago
He’s not actually homeless. He lives with her in her council house, he just pretends he doesn’t because then they wouldn’t get quite as much of your taxes. Some people got very upset when Leo Varadkar pointed out that some people scam the welfare system, ever since then we're supposed to pretend it never happens.
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u/Affectionate_Let1462 7h ago
They know who gave the order. The whole town knows.
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7h ago
[deleted]
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u/Affectionate_Let1462 7h ago
If the testify in what would be a special criminal court case it would make them eligible for witness protection.
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u/ImposterSyndromeNope 9h ago
I got absolutely wrecked the other day when I stated this, nobody agreed with me.
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u/Routine_Fun5564 8h ago
You can still get a life sentence for manslaughter in Ireland, quite possible they could still get life for a crime like this even if it isn't a murder charge.
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u/Right-Glass9508 4h ago
No expert on Irish law. But if you fire a house in early hours, unless there 's good evidence you believed it unoccupied, would that not be taken as intent to kill?
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u/sionnach_fi 9h ago
They often do this. This is just to hold them in custody while the investigation continues.
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u/aloisius_lavin 9h ago
Whatever they get charged with will never be enough. I hope to god all that prison justice craic is true and they spend every second in there screaming in pain
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8h ago
[deleted]
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u/slamjam25 8h ago
The country with the lowest recidivism (and lowest crime overall) is Singapore, where criminals sleep on concrete floors and are beaten with sticks.
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u/robtri2 8h ago
And the Nordic countries with their more liberal views on rehabilitation have one of the highest in the world as well.
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u/slamjam25 8h ago
The apparent success of the Nordic countries has more to do with the fact that 50% of their prison population are foreign nationals who are deported at the end of their sentence, meaning they never appear in recidivism statistics only because they’re no longer in the country. Or the face that even the Norwegian prison system says that their recidivism rate "mainly reflects" the fact that they lock up a lot more people for traffic violations than other countries, and that people arrested for traffic violations reoffend at lower rates everywhere. It’s clear that their results are down to these demographic factors and not their rehabilitation programs because when they test those individual programs they find that literally none of them work.
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u/SpartacusSteam 9h ago
Back in court this time in Waterford on Monday for the man via videolink and the woman has a physical appearance on Tuesday. They will most likely upgrade the charges through out the following days/weeks
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u/Tayto_blaa 9h ago
They should be charged with 4 counts of murder and 2 attempted murder on top of what they've already been charged with, they were charged with criminal damage so that means they're the ones who threw the petrol bomb. I hope the two of them scum rot in hell.
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u/Wonderful-Traffic227 9h ago
Anyone who uses drugs has blood on their hands over this one.
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u/Classic_Body_1 8h ago
They will still be stuffing their noses tonight, drug addicts don't give a shit
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u/Candid-Salamander651 8h ago
Some great legal opinions in this thread. Really well thought-out stuff from experts in Criminal Procedure. I think they devilled with Keith Facebook BL.
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u/Life-Hovercraft-2308 5h ago
Holding charge till full evidence collected. Dpp can upgrade. But current charges far easier to prove as is. They may even keep them and add murder or manslaughter later
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u/AdmirableFun6177 1h ago
She had to get a locksmith to get a key for the car.. imagine how he feels
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u/Captainvonsnap 8h ago
Guys it won't be murder they are charged with it will be manslaughter. No drug dealer wants to kill people who he or she can get money off. Anyway the Garda have said that the car was set on fire and that fire spread to the house so sadly it was intended to intimated not to kill.
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u/tobyfl3nderson 9h ago
My guess is they have to gather the evidence first before upgrading the charges.
The charges of assault possibly could be against the 2 children in hospital.
These could be “holding charges” pushed through so they can keep them in custody (and not release them without charge) and therefore can continue gathering the murder evidence.