Idk why no one is really mentioning that the second one is centered towards the male-gaze and therefore is inherently seen as more acceptable. WEBTOONs generally has a large female audience compared to a lot of franchises, but still has a ton more men who came for the power-scaling fantasy manhwas. Men aren’t going to criticize the second one because it appeals to them and they like it. They’ll criticize the first one because it appeals to women and is therefore stupid and more deserving of the criticism.
(That doesn’t mean the criticism against the first one isn’t warranted, because people will 100% try to say that’s what I’m saying.)
Edit: they’re not liking this take but oh well 😭it’s a common trope in anime as well and figured people would realize that
I think people are downvoting this because the first one is widely criticized as misogynistic and creepy, including by women. 😅
And also because a huge, strong character can be a power fantasy for readers of the same sex, not just a romantic fantasy for readers of the opposite sex. I don't know if the appeal is actually as lopsided as you make it sound.
I think people criticize it as misogynistic because that’s the easiest curtain to stand behind 🥲 Like I get the criticism against the first one, I do. It’s a running joke in the subreddit that we can’t go a week here without a joke about that specific trope.
But if OP is asking about why one is seen as a bad thing that gets shit on every single time it happens now vs why the second trope is seen as acceptable and new, I do implore people to consider that it’s because it’s a commonly portrayed male fantasy. Futurama did it as a joke, but any of the popular isekai animes/mangas will have a big Amazonian woman attracted to the average male, and that’s an awesome/cool trope there. Death by SnuSnu is a popular and funny gag for a reason. Trope two is a male-gaze centered because male readers can insert themselves into the place of the male lead, in the same way female readers can insert themselves in the shoes of the FL in the first trope. Even if they’re basically the same trope, people like to shit on things women like constantly 😭It’s hard to honestly look at all the criticism against Trope 1 in good faith, especially knowing the trend of this specific community.
no because the guy with the amazon is still just an average guy. literally that. no infantilisation, no creepy implications, no weirdly adolescent frame
while the female protagonist (with the fridge ml ) is built like a CHILD with insanely adult proportions. and they almost always behave rlly demure and naive and virgin and shy
do you seriously think the female mcs in the first trope are based on actual women, in appearance or behaviour? it's just a fetish the authors are cashing in on, it is not based on reality
I'm honestly in agreement. Also, while yeah, sometimes the guy in the tall woman/short man trope is portrayed as an adult, well....there's a lot of sexualization regardless and tbh there is an issue with the whole fetishizing part of tall women automatically being "domineering" or bdsm (i.e. the "baby play" or calling the woman "mommy"---like putting a maternal role on the woman even if its a kink thing, its infantilizing the man).
I come from a perspective where, I'm into goth. A lot of times, people assume if you wear all black, and if you're tall, it means automatically----"you're a goth dommy mommy" or "step on me" or even worse "btggf"
I know there's some women who enjoy these terms/jokes, some of us don't. I say this as someone who is goth, who is 5'6"---Its not funny, its not cute, and I'm no one's "mommy" nor am I into bdsm.
I don't care if comics have tall, short, wide, whatever women in them, I DO care when they get fetishized. Regardless if they're short or tall. That's what some people miss.
Like yeah, webtoons have a general problem with the small woman/tall man trope that infantilizes petite women. Doesn't mean tall women don't ALSO get fetishized either, for different purposes/reasons.
It is just misogyny on both ends, at the end of it.
Most importantly, sexism isn't just 'woman need to be weaker than men.' I think that's a good starting point for understanding the basis of sexism, but my argument also wasn't that it's sexist for men to like stronger women. My argument was simply that a lot of times women get criticized for liking the exact same thing as men, but their interests are deemed undesirable. I don't really care to criticize men for being into a stronger woman or one more physically fit than them, I just want people to consider that sometimes looking at why a subversion of a trope is so popular, and why the original trope is getting so much flack.
My argument is that the second one is the male-gaze because the male-readers can self-insert a lot easier in the 'smaller shorter BF,' in the same way female readers can self-insert a lot easier in the more plain, petite female lead.
Media geared towards men that feature muscular men also feature muscular men in a very specific way, if we want to talk about that. I think one of the best examples that's easily accessible is that Hugh Jackson magazine comparison.
The almostly shredded and veiny Hugh is featured in a magazine specifcally marketed to men, while the more 'soft' version of Hugh is featured in a magazine marketed to women. He's muscular in both of them, but the male fantasy and gaze being targetted in the ad on the left is a lot different from the ad on the right. When a muscular man is featured in a romantic piece of media geared towards women, his body appears a lot more sensually and 'gently,' while muscular men in male media are all about power and showing off how that body can fight and work.
In that vein, when it comes to the manhwas, you 100% see these mucular male leads that are meant to be attractive to the reader and the main character. However, their attractiveness is marketed differently depending on who is reading it. Look at how Hujin is drawn in Jungle Juice vs. how Su-ae is drawn in Operation: True Love. Both are 100% meant to be attractive not only to the reader, but to those in their universe. However, they have a different intended audience because they're different genres. That's 100% fine and not like, an inherently bad thing. But they're marketed to specific audiences on purpose. Hujin wears tight fitting combat outfits that not only show off her insanely sculpted body, but that she fights. She's active and moving, but you're right, she doesn't outshine the male lead in that story. She just has all that physical appeal, but not the full strength to beat our MC. Su-au wears more modern fashion-forward outfits that show off her body, but also let us know that she's into current trends and appeals to that set of readers who can pinpoint fashion trends.
So swinging back to the theorictical couple in the picture, why does the woman appeal more to men in that one? Although not exactly my main point, it can also be argued she's fitting into what I described above. She's physically fit and shows off her body because of it. While she can 100% protect the male lead in the media, she's also in love with him and generally finds herself listening to what he says. That's the dynamic that appeals to the maze gaze; This powerful woman has all these appeals of being sexy, strong, but she listens to her smaller and less physically dominating partner. My bigger point however, is that Trope 1 and Trope 2 are basically the same thing, one just appeals to men a bit more because of the above mentioned things. My issue is that a lot of times, even when the trope is more or less the same when stripped down, the version that appeals to women is a lot more heavily criticized at the end of the day.
Why would I talk about the tropes that are present in these comics without giving you concrete examples from said comics to add as visuals and to make my point? I picked popular manhwas for you to look at visually. If you're that caught up on me providing evidence for my argument, I feel like you aren't reading my argument.
I won’t lie, I genuinely do not see a large fanbase of men for those common tropes. I see that being one of the most criticized ones. I see the “Big Strong Man” trope enjoyed a lot more heavily in fantasy/isekai fantasy that isn’t traditionally tagged as a romance because the female characters aren’t as relevant as the male leads in them.
When it comes to “Duke of the North Stuff,” I much more often just a baseline criticism from those outside the primary demographic as those tropes being basically overdone slop/non-original. At least, it’s a very common joke here in this subreddit. I don’t have a stake in this battle, I’m not a big consumer of these types of manhwas anyway, but this is just a trend I’ve seen across this media and want people to consider that like yeah, the exact same tropes in different media types gets difference criticism based on who is consuming it.
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u/Petrichor_Candles Nov 10 '25 edited Nov 10 '25
Idk why no one is really mentioning that the second one is centered towards the male-gaze and therefore is inherently seen as more acceptable. WEBTOONs generally has a large female audience compared to a lot of franchises, but still has a ton more men who came for the power-scaling fantasy manhwas. Men aren’t going to criticize the second one because it appeals to them and they like it. They’ll criticize the first one because it appeals to women and is therefore stupid and more deserving of the criticism.
(That doesn’t mean the criticism against the first one isn’t warranted, because people will 100% try to say that’s what I’m saying.)
Edit: they’re not liking this take but oh well 😭it’s a common trope in anime as well and figured people would realize that