The fact Kayla McBride isnāt on here is wild. Sheās so underrated for how complete her game is and she basically had her best season yet in her mid 30s
The Valks also have KT, who realistically can guard 1-5 at times. With them and the Dream having 60% of the All-Defensive Teams, it'll be fun to watch this year's Finals.
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u/BuckinCrzy smiling through it all, canāt believe itās my life2d ago
Iād make some changes for sure, but overall good list.
Was this voted on before the playoffs? If so the voters did a great job of selecting players that went on to make the finals while avoiding the frauds on the Lynx.
Every game close to 50-49. 24-sec shot clock violations happening regulary, many TOs but very few pts off TOs. 3-4 players in each team in foul trouble.
Iāve seen some complaints about snubs based on blocks and steals.
I said this before: having a high number of blocks or steals, and nothing else, should not make a player DPOY or All-Defense.
Slapping the ball into the stands repeatedly should not be the deciding factor for All-Defense.
An All-Defense player should be an elite defender at many of the elements of defense. Not just one flashy highlight on the stat sheet (blocks).
Elite defense includes forcing the offense into low percentage shots or missing. Removing primary and secondary options. Reading the offense. Sliding your feet. Guarding the pick and roll. Steals, deflections, blocks, closeouts, contests, taking charges, boxing out, motor, defensive rebounds, switching, guarding multiple positions, navigating screens, high IQ, running out the shot clock, etc.
There are 10-20 fundamentals and skills that go into being a complete, impactful, well-rounded and elite defensive player, and the players who regularly do many of those, the best, earn their spots on the All-Defense team.
Doing only 2 of 10-20 things a lot, should not make any player a DPOY or All-Defense.
Too many people seem to check the stat sheet for steals, blocks, and personal bias, and complain based on that.
Who would you swap between first and second team out of curiosity? All of 5 of the 1st team players got DPOY votes including finishing 1-5. VB tied with Rhyne for 5th but I donāt think sheād have a case over any of the 1st teamers
WOW, this is SUCH a good point and isnāt talked about enough. i need some analysts to break this down for me. rhyne howard to me is a perfect example of a high skill defender who has really thrived in that āperfect balanceā being valued more this year.Ā
Dream was 2nd in defense for both August and September. They improved over the course of the season and by September, they were pretty close to the Valkyrie's rating.
September is a 4-game sample size, so it's really noisy statistically speaking, but Atlanta actually had a better DRTG than Golden State, being first in the league for this period (88.7 to 92.3, a 3.6 difference).
The difference between Valks' (1st) and Dream (3rd) defense in August (12 games for both) was 9 points, which is a bigger gap between Atalanta and the 14th place Indiana in that same sample size (95.8 DRTG for GSV, 104.8 for ATL, 110.8 for IND).
Overally, they finished with a 4.4 difference in their DRTGs, which is a bigger margin than 3rd best defense Atlanta to 7th best defense Liberty (103.5 vs 106.9, which is a 3.4 difference). I wouldn't say this is close, tbh, as the gap is similar to the difference between Dream and 8th place Fever (4.8 difference).
The Valks had a defensive rating of 99.1 for the year; the gap between them and 2nd place defense Washington (103.3) was bigger than the gap between Washington and 7th place defense New York (106.9). Not saying the Dream's defense didn't improve in the 2nd half of the year but for the whole season though, no one was close to the Valkyries' rating. I too think Kiah had a legitimate case to be 1st team but it is what it is
My comment was about the 2nd half of the season - August and September. The Dream overall rating was only lower than 2nd because of the early part of the season when they were adjusting and didn't yet have chemistry with Angel and her having to play out of position
Genuinely donāt think Iāve ever been more excited for an award result before. Idk why. I think I just love defense being appreciated and seeing games from everyone this year, I canāt find any nitpicking here. Totally deserved
Not to mention on her end on who she had to guard. Although I think as far as defending I think the finals lightens her load in comparison of having to battle Shakira and Kiki and Stewie and JJ as her defensive assignments. The Mystics in particular had her in fould trouble.
Yet another year of guards getting snubbed. Azzi Fudd should be on this list. She was top two in steals and blocks and she defended the best player on the court every night. And she didnāt even finish the season and still holds that rank. Jordin deserved this. Sonia didnāt.
4 of the 10 are guards. What are you talking about? And Azzi was not top 2 in steals and blocks. She wasnāt even top 5. These awards arenāt ābest defensive guardā and ābest defensive forwardā
As someone else posted in this thread, there is a lot more to defense than just steals and blocks. And a lot of defense canāt be shown in stats. Soniaās defense is rooted in elite fundamentals and making everything difficult for who sheās defending.
āCitron held opposing players to just 37.0% FG on 487 attempts as the closest defender, the best mark in the WNBA among players who defended at least 125 shots, per Second Spectrum.ā - per Mystics PR
To say Azzi deserved a spot over Sonia or anyone else who made All Defensive is wrong. Every person on these teams is deserving for different reasons. Azzi will likely get there eventually but with only 10 players in the league getting recognized itās a very difficult thing to do.
Glad to see VB getting her flowers. Solid list in both teams. Also very pumped for the ATL ladies. Angel was right when she said that DPOY was on the Dream. Just happened it was her lol.
Unless the Aces find a way for her to have less offensive responsibilities, I don't think she'll reach the same level she did in prior years (especially not for the full season). Las Vegas was unironically asking Jewell to guard the opponent's best player at times to give Jackie some time to breathe lol.
We saw in FIBA she still got it though. When she had 11 All-Stars by her side and could actually focus on her game, she was absolutely fantastic.
And yet, DPOY honors came down to Gabby (FIBA winner) and Angel (WNBA winner). Jackie didnāt figure prominently in those FIBA DPOY conversations, either.
So no, I donāt think itās a āfatigueā issue.
Yeah, she didn't figure because she couldn't display the same level on the WNBA due to shouldering a lot more of the Aces' offensive load and didn't get it in FIBA because she was not their main defensive weapon.
She seemed hella gassed in the playoffs, having to play almost 40 minutes every night (and sometimes actually doing it), so I very much think fatigue was a real issue. We can agree to disagree though.
I was gonna say she evolved defensively from one season to another, but I fact-checked and she did not make All-Defensive team last year either (I mixed it up with her All-W selection lol), mb.
I agree. Shakira is great at shot blocking but Sonia is the head of the snake for the Mystics defense. Sheās the high IQ defensive player leading her opponent where she wants them to go and making everything difficult.
Great list. Just want to add that Azzi Fudd averaged 1.7 steals and .8. blocks, only second cumulatively to Rhyne. She also had a 98/99% defensive rating at home. If she somehow manages to lower the defensive rating on the road, sheās definitely coming for a defensive team next season. Also, almost every player chosen had a teammate on the team (except Stewie and Aja). 3 Valks/3 Dream. 2 Mystics. I can make the case that Jackie could have been on the list. However, with Azzi, she was anchoring a very subpar defense. Awak came on after Azzi was out for the season (mostly because she was being played out of position. Awak looked much better with Lan than with Jess). All this to say, I think Azzi didn't get as much credit as she deserved for anchoring a defensive team that was, at times, downright bad. If Dallas gets a POA defender next year, things look bright for Azzi and the team as a whole.
Azzi is an excellent defender. Your focus on steals and blocks undermines your argument because being a good defender is not about counting steals and blocks on a stat sheet. Defense is about way more than those 2 things. Like a list of 15-20 things. So reducing defense to āsteals and blocksā is a disservice to every excellent defender who works hard on the floor every night, including Azzi.
I didn't focus on steals and blocks. I also
Included defensive rating. I included all three because those are the definitive stats we have to judge each player on.
i think they counted her out since she didn't get to play the whole season (should've definitely wings had almost no defense without her lol) hopefully next season she can get the nod!
i'm hoping so i do kind of think she was should have been in over sonia azzi played like 15ish games less and still had more steals and same amount of blocks as her it's a bummer she couldn't play the whole season really wish she could have made second team at least
yeah she definitely had better defensive stats than Soni with less games but Iām hopeful for next year. still upset but we move cause the comeback will be loud
āHeld opposing players to just 37.0% FG on 487 attempts as the closest defender, the best mark in the WNBA among players who defended at least 125 shots, per Second Spectrum.ā
Mystics PR posted this about Soni. She guarded the most possessions and held who she was guarding to the lowest shooting percentages of anyone in the league as a primary defender. Thatās incredibly difficult to do when youāre guarding the other teamās best perimeter player (often an All Star) every night on heavy minutes. Soni doesnāt usually have to gamble on steals because her defense is so fundamental she can rely on getting a stop or force them into a low percentage shot.
Defense is incredibly difficult to quantify statistically. Stocks and rebounds are only a small portion. Defensive rating takes into account everyone on the floor at the time, not just individual defense. Soniās defense is fundamentally elite and criminally underrated because itās not flashy and a lot doesnāt show up on stat sheets.
Thatās a second spectrum stat and Azzi was 2nd behind Soni in it while also guarding the opposing teams best players. Sonia absolutely deserved her spot but itās not a bad thing to say Azzi was snubbed when you also factor in steals, blocks, rating, etc
Sure. My post was more addressing the people commenting saying Sonia didnāt deserve the All Defensive selection and it should have been Azzi instead. Itās fine to think Azzi was snubbed but to say Sonia didnāt deserve it is uncalled for. There are only 10 spots after all so I wouldnāt say thereās anyone who made the teams who should have been bumped for Azzi. They all have valid arguments and reasons for why they each made all defense.
āAn above average defenderā does not equal āone of the top defenders in the leagueā. Like I said, she didnāt make a team in any of those other seasons, either.
If she starts living up to her reputation, sheāll actually have an impact on team defensive ratings and will be rewarded accordingly. The proof is in these results.
I think Azzi was starting to get the credit on this (and really got it in her absence), but unfortunately the amount of time she missed probably excluded her. Media members said as such (that she was likely to have made 2nd team all-defense). Next year is going to be a movie.
Emily Engstler got robbed, miss me with the her team wasnt good enough crap.
I'm not a huge counting stats guy but being 1 of 3 players to be in the top 15 in steals and blocks and not being named a top 10 defender all while being pretty versatile too, is a joke to me.
I can get behind that! She busted her ass on the defensive end for that team, really anchored them quite a bit (BC was good too). Sucks to not see that rewarded for whatever reason.
Probably Soni. Not as a knock on the season she had or the defender she is, the award is more for awarding production than simply picking the best on ball or best post defenders imo.
No one can argue that Soni isn't one of the best on ball defenders in the W, but I would have rewarded Emily's versatility and production if I had a vote.
Makes sense that both GSV and Atlanta have the most players in this category. It speaks to individual brilliance as well as the overall team defense of both teams. That's one of the big reasons why they're still playing. Both defenses are stylistically different, but they will find ways to shut down or slow down offenses.
It's hard to nitpick the selection, but very few qualms about the overall voting process for this category.
Iām a big Valkyries fan so seeing three of them represented is great but I canāt pass up the opportunity to give big props to Howard who is absolutely one of the best 2-way players in the league.
I don't think Awak really found her defensive groove until halfway through the season or maybe even the last third. She's set up well for next year though.
stewie carried the entire liberty defense on her backšshe was closer to first team than not making it imo and sheās not who id take out to put anyone else in
Idk you could make the same argument for Azzi or AB. Bad defensive team w a good defender
But also read somewhere that Liberty defense was actually better w her off the floor
On/off stats without leverage consideration doesn't mean shit.
All the Liberty players who started the game where Aces rested their big 3 took massive hits to the on/off number. Here's how Stewie (left) impacted scoring value to how Azzi(right) impacted scoring value. Can we be serious here?
But for 3 years I've been told defense doesn't matter. I've been told offense and perfect shooting form are all that matter. Phee and Cheryl said offense and "freedom of movement" are what basketball is about.
A team that finishes 14th out of 15 in defense is never going to get one of these awards for their player. Right or wrong, voters aren't even gonna consider doing it.
This is Emily's defensive impact (see image) it's decent but most players on the all defensive teams have better in addition to significantly better team defense.
Beginning in August, both the Aces and the Liberty have been top 5 in defensive rating. Aces were actually 3rd and Liberty were 5th post-All Star. Stewie and Aāja also have the individual stats to make the team. Natasha Howard could have maybe taken Stewieās spot but the Lynxās defense fell apart in August so Iām not surprised that voters ended up picking Stewie.
Portland has consistently been one of the worst defensive teams though
Not really. Voters consider it empty stats if it doesnāt lead to actual winning. Some players on non-playoff teams are able to make All-WNBA or All-Defensive but you generally have to be a very dominant player like Sylvia Fowles and/or the competition has to be weaker.
This year, there was a lot of separation between the playoff teams and the non-playoff teams compared to other years, so it makes sense that the awards went to players on playoff teams.
For All-Defensive, team defensive rating matters a lot. They just arenāt going to award someone who has stocks on a very bad defensive team.
Sonia has been great defensively this season btw. Sheās one of the best PnR defenders in the league. She has the 5th best defensive rating among guards with 20+ minutes. Sheās 3rd for guards that play 30+ minutes. Sheās 4th in defensive win shares among guards that averaged 30+ minutes. Sheās been critical to the Mystics defense, especially since her backcourt partner is not a good defender.
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u/sabeshs Tempo 1d ago
Gotta say.. The Valkyries kit looks great!