r/ABCDesis • u/Asleep_Note7754 Canadian Indian • 1d ago
META ‘We do need people’: Immigration minister teases immigration levels will be going up
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/we-do-need-people-immigration-minister-teases-immigration-levels-will-be-going-up/Specifically chose r/canada to post from for the 🍿
But this was on all of the Canada based subs I follow. I don’t know how long Diab will last for. Libs are only winning because PP is so unlikable.
38
u/Fantastic_Spring8366 1d ago edited 1d ago
r/canada 's reception of EU immigrants with freedom of movement vs immigrants not from Europe tells you all you need to know. EU membership of Canada means giving 400 million people of the bloc the right to reside in Canada. Yet, I haven't really seen any complaints about that. I wonder why...
24
u/Asleep_Note7754 Canadian Indian 1d ago
“We’re not racist. Your people are just scamming the system”
5
u/Carbon-Base Indian American 1d ago
As an unaware American - are they doing this for legitimate reasons like low birth rate, lack of skilled labor and labor gaps in general? Or is there a different motive?
7
u/chittaabhay Canadian Indian 1d ago
The announcement for the immigration plan has not been made final.
Anyway, there were massive cuts to planned temporary resident levels. Furthermore, many TR's were unable to get permanent residency and started to leave. The cuts follow a massive rise in the population (in 2023, our population grew by a massive 1 million people). The rise in population suddenly by temporary residents has resulted in increased housing costs and increased job competition.
The cuts resulted in a stalled population growth and there is some pressure from certain industries to increase immigration. Whether or not there is a worker shortage is subjective. Tim Hortons for example relied extensively on foreign workers. Many other businesses did as well. Foreign workers are willing to work for more hours, with less pay and will not demand additional worker protections. This has led to massive youth unemployment rates.
Even in skilled labour its subjective. Canada has one of the highest education levels plus due to economic concerns, companies have lowered their hiring.
3
u/Carbon-Base Indian American 1d ago
Anyway, there were massive cuts to planned temporary resident levels. Furthermore, many TR's were unable to get permanent residency and started to leave.
From an macroeconomic standpoint, do you think they are doing this to generate more revenue? TR's don't get PR, they are forced to leave, and then the government turns around and makes another push for immigration. The new wave of incoming immigrants generates more money through fees, visas, universities and other means as they arrive.
I know I may be completely in the wrong here, but it always seemed disparaging that Trudeau allowed such a massive influx and then those immigrants were denied a chance at residency in Canada. Like, I'm aware that the administration changed leadership and policies since the onset of that immigration push, but it just seems like a deceitful practice? The Canadian people suffered as you stated - housing prices and youth unemployment rates increased. The immigrants suffered as they spent money to arrive there and then had to return. And now businesses are also suffering as a result of those cuts and policy changes. It just seems like bad policy making with little to no foresight.
3
u/Asleep_Note7754 Canadian Indian 23h ago edited 23h ago
I get what you’re saying that Trudeau was disingenuous but I think you need a bit of context. Canada always offered a path to permanent residency through the student visa program. It wasn’t anything new. Many Indian students in the 2000s/2010s from well off families paid top dollar in top tier universities or public colleges to study in programs like engineering, computer science, nursing, finance, skilled trades, etc. They already came from English medium schools and their high fees subsidized education for domestic students, essentially opening more seats. So they were seen as beneficial. Moreover, many of them were well off and didn’t need to work, but they may have taken paid co-ops for the experience. But their education genuinely filled employment gaps in the economy and they were seen as positive benefits with Canadian education so hence they were offered a path to PR through post grad work permits.
However, this pathway, didn’t differentiate if the program was a degree or diploma or even if the visa holder was working in their field. They didn’t even care where the education was done. A top tier university was considered the same as a diploma mill. And this is where the exploitation happened.
Stephen Harper (Trudeau’s predecessor) actually allowed those on student visas to work off campus part time, so it wasn’t entirely Trudeau’s fault.
Starting in the 2010s diploma mills started popping up that specifically targeted students from poorer countries abroad. But these schools are like 99% international students. For instance there is one in Vancouver UCW that offers MBAs and no Canadian attends the school. Many of their graduates are working in retail or warehouses. But such schools don’t screen for English or skills. They take students with a pulse from India, Nigeria, Mexico, Nepal, Philippines etc. Basically countries with emerging economies and targeting lower to middle class students (often rural) in such countries who otherwise wouldn’t have the language skills or qualifications to attend a reputable school in Canada. India having the large population it has naturally would be over represented. Some public colleges too cashed in, like Conestoga, to bring such students for generic diplomas like business management. Other public colleges formed partnerships with these private diploma mills to offer their curriculum to international students.
For many of these students the lure was being able to work part time to fund their studies. At the time, a Canadian study permit applicant needed to show only $10K in the bank (even that was obtained by loan). Many of these students would exceed these hours because they had heavy loans and studying wasn’t a priority. Many professors I spoke to complained that there was limited English skills and rampant cheating and being forced by administrators to pass them.
We can’t entirely blame Trudeau for this cottage industry that emerged through a system whose loopholes were exposed. But it was emerging under their noses while they did nothing. The provinces are the ones who regulate education and Trudeau’s ministers said that they used the honour system based off the provinces regulating these schools.
However, Trudeau allowed many of these students to work 40 hours a week after the pandemic. What happened was a underclass of labour emerged in fast food or retail or warehouses filled by international students and not Canadian youth.
Moreover, anyone qualified for a PGWP, regardless if they did a PhD in mechanical engineering or a diploma in hospitality and that PGWP was eligible at Tim Hortons or a nuclear power plant. Anyone bringing it up and Trudeau would accuse them of xenophobia until he admitted it was a mistake.
So really it wasn’t as simple as bringing temporary migration in. It was more about loopholes of a good system being ignored by the government which frustrated Canadians. And now because immigration is now seen as a hot button issue politicians need to save face by closing the loopholes.
The problem is that the students who came with the intention of settling here based on a path they were promised were understandably upset. They didn’t think they did anything wrong and they are technically right. They followed the information they were given even if they were scammed by colleges and recruiters. But they aren’t the ones voting so obviously they pay the price.
This is a good podcast about Canadian attitudes towards immigration and how they’ve changed since Trudeau came.
2
u/Carbon-Base Indian American 17h ago
So these private schools completely bypassed the IELTS/TOEFL requirement, along with anything else that would be typically required for studies abroad? And they wanted students to maintain $10k CAD after arrival correct? Not as a prerequisite for the application and enrollment process?
It sounds as though these private institutions are to blame-- or rather the people behind them. The trustees, board, and whichever providential politician that played along and didn't say a word as these students were exploited while they minted money. In fact, they got so greedy that this mass immigration event went unchecked and impacted Canadian citizens! Political leaders are likely entangled due to a domino effect. These institutions use their influence and funds to line the politicians' pockets and lobby for these laws and loopholes. If Trudeau (or anyone) refuses, they probably threaten to yank funding and/or support. I'm sure it's more nuanced than that, but it likely boils down to something similar.
I appreciate the detailed response, OP!
2
u/Asleep_Note7754 Canadian Indian 16h ago
You really got it! And for IELTS many were charging for fraudulent grades and as a means to come here. It was a whole pipeline.
1
u/Carbon-Base Indian American 4h ago
Damn. They've really made education into a business everywhere, it's so unfortunate.
2
u/chai-chai-latte 1d ago
It is deceitful but Canada is not a nation that humanizes immigrants anymore so it doesn't seem like they care.
I recall there were students protesting exactly that (changing the requirements substantially between administrations) and most Canadians could not care less.
The standard practice would be to change requirements for new applicants, not for those that were already accepted under a specific set of terms.
It's actually kind of hilarious and sad because I spent my whole life in Canada watching Canadians glaze themselves (even take pride in their superiority over Americans) for being accepting towards immigrants. Interesting to see how quickly "values" and "principles" go out the window when the economics becomes dysfunctional.
3
u/Asleep_Note7754 Canadian Indian 1d ago
I mean we are heading in the direction of creating an undocumented class of migrants that the US has. I’m not sure how much they can hide though because the moment they need medical care, their status is exposed, even though legally hospitals can’t have them deported. But many Indians are willing to work cash jobs under the table and time will only tell if we will create a new class like DACA or something similar.
3
u/chittaabhay Canadian Indian 1d ago
Ya exactly, the government naively believes most TFW's will leave once their visa expires. However, many spend their entire life savings trying to get to Canada and they do not see returning back to their home countries an option.
There is a growing supply of cash jobs as well. A lot of businesses deal in cash to avoid taxes, now they can hire workers illegally.
2
u/Asleep_Note7754 Canadian Indian 1d ago
Well most well off people do leave. I had an LGBTQ friend from India end up leaving because their visa expired but it wasn’t a big deal because he came from a tier 1 city and was otherwise safe where they were at and their family was relatively well off.
The ones who stay are the ones who also have no future in India regardless. I recently met a paramedic who said many homeless shelters are filled with such migrants from all countries, but he said that there has been more recent representation from India in the system. Which he hadn’t seen before.
2
u/chittaabhay Canadian Indian 1d ago
There are currently two classes of people coming in.
They are a lot of people from well off rich families in India coming to potentially gain foreign experience, improve career prospects and gain Canadian citizenship as a plan B. Many people from this category attend reputable schools, and might pursue employment in skilled in demand jobs. Until the Trudeau era, this was most students coming in. Most of these students can return back to India and go back to a decent life. They are not working a shady cash job.
There are a growing number of Indians from lower income backgrounds in India. Their families sold off any land & investments, mortgaged their properties to allow their kids to study in Canada. Some in Canada saw this (many previous Indian immigrants) opened up diploma mill "collages" in strip malls. Established institutions like Conestoga saw this as a cash machine as well. These colleges offer shorter programs then established universities in things like supply chain management which sounds cool but serves no real purpose. Their education was a way to get in the country. Many were not able to find skilled employment and competed with Canadians in low skilled labour. This is what caused the outrage we see. Given the sacrifices their families made, coming back to India with nothing to show for it is not an option. They rather stay in Canada illegally and make less then minimum wage in cash working
2
u/Asleep_Note7754 Canadian Indian 1d ago
I know. When I was in a top tier university in Canada in the 2010s my Indian friends came from big cities and had rich parents. Many of them even hosted me well in India too!
Some got their citizenship too. Almost all of them have gone back now, with the Canadian passport as a plan B. Some of their parents even got PR but decided they were better off in India.
The second category was Trudeau’s performative wokism on trying to be a humanitarian I truly believe. I mean my grandparents immigrated in his dad’s era (or even Pearson’s era) and were lifelong Liberal supporters like all of their peers who immigrated in that era. Trudeau’s ego was so big that he wanted to be remembered the same way but it backfired.
3
u/chittaabhay Canadian Indian 1d ago
I get where you are coming from but the government had no choice.
The new requirements regarding getting a post graduate work permit from public private colleges only applied to students joining following the announcements.
Otherwise there haven't been regulation changes. Students were given 3 year PGWP open work permits during the Trudeau era and now. The permits always said it is temporary (in the name), and holders need to return home when expires. It was really clear that a PGWP doesn't translate to PR.
Only difference now is there are a lot of ppl in the PR pool and less draws. However, this wasn't really a regulation change. Its more like, the rules are being enforced (a PGWP doesn't automatically mean pr)
9
u/midsumernighttts 1d ago
Canada has absolute idiots running their government. At this point they’re just putting brown people in danger.
2
u/chittaabhay Canadian Indian 1d ago
How so?
12
u/Putrid_Property_3661 Canadian 23h ago
Because increased immigration will just cause further animosity towards brown people. It’s inevitable.
4
u/Putrid_Property_3661 Canadian 1d ago
If the Trump tariff fiasco never happened the conservatives would’ve won by a historic landslide. I agree PP is very unlikable, but he would’ve at least been able to have an honest conversation about immigration in Canada.
I don’t why the liberals keep harping on “needing people”, we’ve done nothing but bring in the WRONG people for over a decade. We need the RIGHT people. Not just people.
This isn’t fear mongering at this point, but if the current liberal administration follows the Justin Trudeau immigration plan again we’re literally going to have a civil war. People are fed up, I don’t know why this administration refuses to acknowledge the issues.
25
u/ParticularVoice919 1d ago
The reality is that White Canadians don’t want non-White people immigrating to Canada. They’d be totally fine with a million Ukrainians moving to Canada. Anti-immigrant sentiment is basically about not wanting Canada to become browner.
11
u/Fantastic_Spring8366 1d ago
Yep. EU membership is broadly a popular idea in Canada, despite the fact that it would give 400 million people of the bloc the freedom to travel, reside, study, work, and retire in Canada.
1
u/FalconsArentReal 21h ago
The reality is that White Canadians don’t want non-White people immigrating to Canada.
Hard disagree with this, where I am from Winnipeg, for decades Filipinos have been moving here (there are more of them here than South Asians) and white people love them. Even more recently we have had a very large influx of Nigerians, (they are like the desi's of old most of them are in professional fields) and no one here is raging against them. The issue at least where I am, is with the South Asian immigration. I chalk it up to low skilled workers combined with some bad behaviour that has soured the populace on the South Asian community.
5
u/OkRB2977 Assamese Canadian - TCK 1d ago
Lmao, did you follow the 2025 election campaign or even the months prior to Trudeau's resignation and Trump's re-election in 2024? PP had a 25-point lead over the Liberals, and yet he never once mentioned immigration.
He wasn't ready to debate or argue that topic. Ironically, only the BQ and the PPC discussed immigration in their campaigns.
One of the reasons that, despite being so close and improving their vote share, PP wasn't able to cross the threshold to win is because of his refusal to discuss immigration.
4
u/Asleep_Note7754 Canadian Indian 1d ago
I was just about to say only now are the Conservatives talking about immigration but PP had so much fodder through the campaign to bring it up but he never did.
4
u/OkRB2977 Assamese Canadian - TCK 1d ago
Trudeau's infamous "we didn't get the balance quite right" announcement in January 2024 was pure campaign gold, which PP refused to engage in despite making his entire campaign about Trudeau, even though he was running against Carney.
PP was promising direct flights to Amritsar, lmao.
6
u/Asleep_Note7754 Canadian Indian 1d ago
Yet Conservatives defend him to the core! Trudeau basically handed it to him but he couldn’t even say he’d fight Trump. Heck, even Doug Ford got centrist federal Liberal supporters by acting like a tough guy against Trump. PP’s campaign was all about Trudeau being bad but nothing to help it.
29
u/ParticularVoice919 1d ago
Doctors from developing countries, especially China and India, are highly valued for their experience in the United States. Canada doesn’t value highly skilled talent as much as the U.S. does. Doctors in developing countries deal with complex and unusual medical cases far more frequently than their counterparts in the West.
Many highly skilled immigrants who are new to Canada end up starting out in low-paying, blue-collar jobs because they struggle to find work that matches their qualifications and experience. It’s common for newcomers to be underemployed or to work outside their field, even when they have advanced degrees or specialized skills.
With its high cost of living, limited well-paying jobs, and growing anti-immigrant sentiment, Canada will find it harder to attract and retain highly skilled talent.