r/asoiaf • • 3d ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) Weekly Q and A

3 Upvotes

Welcome to the Weekly Q & A! Feel free to ask any questions you may have about the world of ASOIAF. No need to be bashful. Book and show questions are welcome; please say in your question if you would prefer to focus on the BOOKS, the SHOW, or BOTH. And if you think you've got an answer to someone's question, feel free to lend them a hand!

Looking for Weekly Q&A posts from the past? Browse our Weekly Q&A archive! (currently no longer being archived, but this link will remain)


r/asoiaf • • 1d ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Fan Art Friday! Post your fan art here!

5 Upvotes

In this post, feel free to share all forms of ASOIAF fan art - drawings, woodwork, music, film, sculpture, cosplay, and more!

Please remember:

  1. Link to the original source if known. Imgur is all right to use for your own work and your own work alone. Otherwise, link to the artist's personal website/deviantart/etc account.
  2. Include the name of the artist if known.
  3. URL shorteners such as tinyurl are not allowed.
  4. Art pieces available for sale are allowed.
  5. The moderators reserve the right to remove any inappropriate or gratuitous content.

Submissions breaking the rules may be removed.

Can't get enough Fan Art Friday?

Check out these other great subreddits!

  • r/ImaginaryWesteros — Fantasy artwork inspired by the book series "A Song Of Ice And Fire" and the television show "A Game Of Thrones"
  • r/CraftsofIceandFire — This subreddit is devoted to all ASOIAF-related arts and crafts
  • r/asoiaf_cosplay — This subreddit is devoted to costumed play based on George R.R. Martin's popular book series *A Song of Ice and Fire,* which has recently been produced into an HBO Original Series *Game Of Thrones*
  • r/ThronesComics — This is a humor subreddit for comics that reference the HBO show Game of Thrones or the book series A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin.

Looking for Fan Art Friday posts from the past? Browse our Fan Art Friday archive! (our old archive is here)


r/asoiaf • • 1h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Jaime is surprisingly good at understanding other people and unbelievably bad at understanding himself

• Upvotes

One thing I keep noticing on rereads is that Jaime is actually pretty sharp when it comes to reading other people.
He understands Cersei’s vanity and cruelty better than almost anyone. He sees through a lot of the posturing around court. He figures Brienne out faster than most people do, even if he spends a long time mocking what he sees. He’s also very good at recognizing when someone is motivated by fear, pride, humiliation, loyalty, or self-interest.
Then the second the subject is Jaime himself, all of that insight just disappears.
He spends years telling himself that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks of him, while being completely defined by the Kingslayer reputation.
He insists that he’s cynical and detached, but keeps making choices that only make sense if honor still matters to him.
He tells himself that Cersei is the one person who truly understands him, while repeatedly ignoring evidence that the relationship means something very different to her than it does to him.
Even his memories of Aerys feel like this. Jaime absolutely knows why he killed him. He knows what would have happened if he hadn’t. But instead of really processing what that choice did to him, he turns “Kingslayer” into this identity he can hide inside.
That’s what makes his POV so interesting to me.
He isn’t stupid. He isn’t even especially delusional about the world around him.
He’s just incredibly skilled at explaining everyone else and incredibly committed to not examining himself with the same honesty.
The irony is that Jaime probably understands people better than most characters in the series, but the person he misunderstands most consistently is Jaime Lannister


r/asoiaf • • 11h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) What is a decision that is framed as incorrect/wrong but you actually don't think it is? Or at least dont think its actually that bad?

135 Upvotes

Personally? I think Ned warning Cersei wasn't actually as bad as its made out to be.

If Cersei hadn't gotten lucky with a wild animal doing its part (an animal Robert wasnt even originally hunting), all it would have done is potentially saved the children from being executed as Cersei would have time/forewarning to flee.

It ultimately wasn't even really the thing that actually sunk Ned Stark. That was more his trust of Littlefinger. Really Cersei's success was dependent on Littlefinger betraying Ned, which he only did because he stood to gain more from the Lannisters. Although it was a pretty big mistake on Ned's part to trust Littlefinger.

Also in the HOTD show, I also think Rhaenyra firing Mysaria isnt really that big a deal. Mysaria genuinely wasnt a very good spymaster. If someone can't do the job they are supposed to do, why keep them around?


r/asoiaf • • 21h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) ASOIAF is full of characters who diagnose the problem correctly and then prescribe poison

372 Upvotes

Something I keep noticing on rereads is how often characters in ASOIAF aren't actually wrong about the problem in front of them. They're wrong about what the hell to do about it. And honestly I think that's a much more interesting kind of failure than someone simply being stupid or completely misreading the situation.
Cersei is probably the funniest example. She's not imagining that the Tyrells are becoming enormously powerful at court, that Margaery's popularity threatens her own position, or that the Lannisters are much weaker after Tywin's death than they were before. Those are real problems. Her response is to alienate basically every useful ally she has, surround herself with people she considers harmless because they're incompetent, and empower the Faith because she thinks she'll somehow be the one person they can't touch. Theon is similar in a completely different way. He understands that returning to Pyke as "Ned Stark's ward" has left him in this miserable position where neither the Starks nor the Ironborn fully see him as one of them. He genuinely does need to establish an identity and prove himself if he wants any standing among his family. So naturally he decides the solution is taking Winterfell with a tiny force, a castle he has basically no realistic way to hold. He sees the wound perfectly and then sticks a knife into it.
Tywin might be the version of this that fascinates me most, because he's so often treated as the ultimate pragmatist. He correctly understands that House Lannister needs fear, loyalty, competent heirs, and a stable political order to survive. Yet half the methods he uses to achieve those things actively destroy them. He humiliates Tyrion while desperately needing capable family members, terrorizes enemies so thoroughly that their hatred survives him, and treats his children like pieces on a board while expecting them to preserve the dynasty after he's gone. Even Robb falls into this pattern sometimes. He understands exactly how fragile his coalition is and how much his kingship depends on personal loyalty, then makes a deeply personal decision about Jeyne that creates a political disaster he absolutely knows he can't afford. That's what I love about these mistakes. They're rarely "character forgets obvious fact so plot can happen." The character usually sees at least part of the truth. Their pride, fear, guilt, trauma, or need to prove something takes over at the exact moment they have to choose a solution. In ASOIAF, recognizing the fire and deciding to put it out with wildfire feels almost like a recurring character type


r/asoiaf • • 1h ago

PUBLISHED (Spoilers published) Speculative Question about Alys Karstark and Sigorn Thenn

• Upvotes

I know Jon arranged this match off page but given the fact that Sigorn really hated Jon for most of ADWD, I would love to know how Jon first broached the idea marrying a non-free folk girl (complete stranger) to Sigorn. More than that, how did Jon convince Sigorn to agree to it?

“Fight for you?” This voice was thickly accented. Sigorn, the young Magnar of Thenn, spoke the Common Tongue haltingly at best. “Not fight for you. Kill you better. Kill all you.” (ADWD, Jon IV)

Jon’s smile died. “I might if I could trust him. Sigorn blames me for his father’s death, I fear. Worse, he was bred and trained to give orders, not to take them. Do not confuse the Thenns with free folk. Magnar means lord in the Old Tongue, I am told, but Styr was closer to a god to his people, and his son is cut from the same skin. I do not require men to kneel, but they do need to obey.” (ADWD, Jon VII)

Although the match was beneficial to both parties (Alys needed help escaping her gross uncles and gaining control of Karhold, and Sigorn needed a place to shelter his people) I feel like there had to have been some kind of negotiation or some assurances made.

Why do I think this? I'll tell ya:

First, if Jon mistrusted Sigorn enough to not want to bestow him one of the uninhabitable NW castles, why would Jon trust him with Alys's hand and, with that, one of the most powerful castles in the North? Alys and Karhold are far more important than a castle that hadn't been manned since the reign of King Jaehaerys.

Second, I just cannot imagine Sigorn agreeing a betrothal after essentially being told by Jon, "Hey, so I know you think I killed your dad and you hate me, but I lowkey really need you to marry my childhood friend and go south with her and the few men you have to potentially die in retaking her family's castle. Oh, and btw, she has an older brother who may or may not return home alive and reclaim his position as Lord of Karhold."

Third, Sigorn had already knelt to Stannis, which was definitely a moment where the Magnar put his people before his pride, but there is a difference between the Magnar kneeling and taking orders from Stannis (a king/someone who could have had Sigorn burned at the stake) vs. Harrion Karstark.

Finally, by marrying Alys and going to Karhold, even if the Thenns were successful, Sigorn would still be risking another displacement of his people if Harrion were to return and not be chill with wildlings living on his family's lands.

As a House Thenn stan, and a realllll sucker for a good love story, I'd like to think that Sigorn agreed to all those uncertainties and potential risks because he was smitten with Alys....but because this is GRRM and nothing is ever that simple, I doubt it.


r/asoiaf • • 4h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) Can’t leave the good ole day behind…

5 Upvotes

Robert Baratheon really can’t let go of the past can he? Throughout A Game of Thrones (the book) I notice how much Robert can’t let go of the past.

He longed to give up the throne, becoming a sellsword king and lived out his days fighting like how he was in the past when he was fighting in the Rebellion and won the throne.

He never let go of his feelings for his best friend Eddard Stark’s sister Lyanna Stark, requesting to see her tombs upon his introduction. However, what make this tragic is that Robert only loved an idealized version of her and it implied Lyanna never returned his feelings. However, because Robert never had her, she became this ideal woman that no others could match.

And lastly and the most important, he never let go of his hatred toward Rhaegar Targaryen which extended to every other Targaryens in general. It served as the root of his falling out with Eddard Stark and that shadow ultimately played a role in both of their doom.

EDIT: and concerning the mystery of Jon Snow, another tragic thing is that Eddard Stark can’t tell his friend Robert about Jon because he believed his best friend’s hatred of Rhaegar and Targaryen in general is stronger than his love for Lyanna. So Robert will see Jon as Rhaegar spawn instead of Lyanna’s son

So, yeah Robert inability to let go of ghosts long dead and him disliking his current life (and wife) led to him reminiscing about the good old day. Likely why he wanted Ned to be his Hand because after Jon Arryn’s death, he was alone except wasn’t there a friend of his all the way in the North? Oh, most tragic of all, Robert die in his sleep not knowing about the most important secrets and lies of all.


r/asoiaf • • 20h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Anyone else a low key Qyburn fan?

58 Upvotes

Respectfully look past his unorthodox methods and recognize him as a brilliant pioneer of modern medicine and empirical science in a medieval world governed by superstition. As Grand Maester, he replaces stagnant dogma with genuine anatomical research, saving gravely injured individuals like Gregor Clegane who would otherwise be left to die in agony. Far from acting out of malice, his willingness to question cruel societal taboos demonstrates a deep intellectual curiosity and an empathetic drive to push the boundaries of healing. In his private interactions, he is unfailingly soft-spoken, polite, and deeply respectful, treating everyone from high lords to broken outcasts with the same gentle dignity. Ultimately, his pragmatism and medical innovations offer Westeros a rare beacon of progress, proving that his so-called dark arts are simply misunderstood genius applied to the relentless alleviation of human suffering.


r/asoiaf • • 1d ago

MAIN [Spoilers Main] Tywin is politically inept

294 Upvotes

"—someone needs to close them again." Jaime stood. "I am tired of having highborn women kicking pails of shit at me, Father. No one ever asked me if I wanted to be Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, but it seems I am. I have a duty—"

"You do." Lord Tywin rose as well. "A duty to House Lannister. You are the heir to Casterly Rock. That is where you should be. Tommen should accompany you, as your ward and squire. The Rock is where he'll learn to be a Lannister, and I want him away from his mother. I mean to find a new husband for Cersei. Oberyn Martell perhaps, once I convince Lord Tyrell that the match does not threaten Highgarden. And it is past time you were wed. The Tyrells are now insisting that Margaery be wed to Tommen, but if I were to offer you instead—"

"NO!" Jaime had heard all that he could stand. No, more than he could stand. He was sick of it, sick of lords and lies, sick of his father, his sister, sick of the whole bloody business. "No. No. No. No. No. How many times must I say no before you'll hear it? Oberyn Martell? The man's infamous, and not just for poisoning his sword. He has more bastards than Robert, and beds with boys as well. And if you think for one misbegotten moment that I would wed Joffrey's widow . . ."

- A Storm of Swords - Jaime VII

Tywin seriously thinks there’s a hope in hell the Tyrell’s would accept the consolation prize of Jaime when they control all the food, largest army and their lands have been untouched by the war.

He’s also doubling down on the Martell alliance by trying to wed Cersei to Oberyn as if it’s in anyway a real alliance. He seriously thinks the Martells are on team.


r/asoiaf • • 20h ago

MAIN [Spoilers Main] Which Targaryen would you marry?

47 Upvotes

If you could marry any Targaryen from any era in history, who would you marry?


r/asoiaf • • 7h ago

MAIN [Spoiler Main] What if Eddard and Robert was Warded in High Garden with Ollena Tyrell

4 Upvotes

As the title asks, what would happen, how would the STAB alliance change? How what would a Ned Stark taught by Ollena Tyrell look like? Would Benjin take Ned's place in the Erire?

Edit: I just want to clarify I'm not writing any fan-fic. I am/was just curious if any other readers/enjoyers of this world had this idea and its riple effects.


r/asoiaf • • 7h ago

MAIN [Spoilers Main] A question on the nature of the Nights Watch vows and the Maester's vows

1 Upvotes

So, I'm rereading the series and have just finished feast, and I've come across the line where Marwyn says to Sam something about the Citadel allowing him to 'waste away' on the Wall instead of being an Archmaester. Of course, that raises a lot of theories itself around the nature of Aemon's journey to the wall and whether its as willing as its been described. But I'm not gonna get into that (mainly because I haven't finished this theory yet)

The question I had, actually, was on which comes first in the chain of vows. As in, which one is the one that's deferred to first? The NW, or the Citadel? A sworn Maester who's taken the black surely still answers to the citadel and those vows, given that their still chain, right?

Say a Maester serving at one of the castles on the wall gets called up to the council of Archmaesters. Can they even get called up? Or are they now stuck on the wall, because they have to defer to the oath to 'live and die at their post'? But wouldn't their post also be decided by wherever the Citadel sends them, not necessarily just the wall?

Do they even take the black? We know Aemon doesn't even wear black, so he could've genuinely not sworn an oath. Maybe Maester's don't swear at all, unless they took the black first

There's a lot of confusion over what works where and who answers to who, and it's just got me curious, is all


r/asoiaf • • 22h ago

EXTENDED Tysha's view on Tyrion (spoilers extended)

49 Upvotes

I don't know if there is a consensus in the fandom about whether or not Tyrion will meet Tysha again. I'm 50/50, it could happen but I feel that Tyrion's story can still work if he never sees her again. However, should they meet again I fully believe that Tysha won't look back on their time together as fondly as Tyrion does.

Look at the events from her perspective. Saved from assault & this noble-born dwarf treats you well & marries you within a day. A fortnight passes & your in-laws call you a whore & your husband believes their lies. Then you are gangr**ed before your husband finishes last then you are kicked out with a handful of coins. Would you really look back at those events with any fondness?

In my opinion were Tyrion to encounter Tysha she would despise him. Not only because of the man he is now but because of his actions that day. He believed his family's lies that she was a whore more than believing her feelings were genuine & then watched her get assaulted by who knows how many men before being the final participant. Tyrion does not come out of this looking good to Tysha.


r/asoiaf • • 21h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) what are the small folk fighting for anyway?

28 Upvotes

I have a question about common folks aka peasants in Westeros during war times
.

During war, what exactly are the peasants fighting for? At least the lords are fighting for honor, glory, vengeance, or to rise up in the station. Like victory in a battle can hopefully elevate a minor lord to a better societal position. But peasants? It not like their life will change once the war over? It will be the same as always. Yet they still followed their lord’s command and pick up their blades.

I get if they fought for someone like Ned Stark because life under the Stark isn’t bad and great. Their something admirable about the North loyalty to the Starks that their willing to put themselves in harm way for their… shall we say family drama.

But what about Tywin Lannister who likely wouldn’t consider their contribution meaningful?

Oh and speaking of peasants… I want to discuss Beric Dondarrion and his vigilante justice to “avenge” the small folks. I can see why the small folks would supports group like that but I wonder about some of it members. Like do they actually believed in Beric’s mission statement OR is it just a way for them to enact violence? Especially the members that are small folks…
.


r/asoiaf • • 13h ago

EXTENDED The 79 sentinels and house Russell [Spoilers EXTENDED]

6 Upvotes

EDIT- can you seriously not edit the title? Oh well, House Russel it is.

I have always wondered about the story of the 79 sentinels that Bran tells to the Reeds.

To start with, I don’t think that GRRM ever “just makes it up”; he always uses names and numbers and metaphors that represent something to do with the character/location/etc and something cosmological/historical/mythological/literary (including Marvel comics)/ and even things from his own life/inside jokes to him and friends (usually some combination of these).

The 79 number always seemed so specific. I thought maybe a reference to 1979? But nothing obvious. I had a thought today though, and just wanted some opinions/thoughts:

  1. We are told the 79 deserters from the Nightfort and one is the youngest son of Lord Ryswell:

*"There are ghosts here," Bran said. Hodor had heard all the stories before, but Jojen might not have. "Old ghosts, from before the Old King, even before Aegon the Dragon, seventy-nine deserters who went south to be outlaws. One was Lord Ryswell's youngest son, so when they reached the barrowlands they sought shelter at his castle, but Lord Ryswell took them captive and returned them to the Nightfort. The Lord Commander had holes hewn in the top of the Wall and he put the deserters in them and sealed them up alive in the ice. They have spears and horns and they all face north. The seventy-nine sentinels, they're called. They left their posts in life, so in death their watch goes on forever. Years later, when Lord Ryswell was old and dying, he had himself carried to the Nightfort so he could take the black and stand beside his son. He'd sent him back to the Wall for honor's sake, but he loved him still, so he came to share his watch."

- ASOS, Bran IV*

  1. They are specifically then sealed in holes in the wall with horns and spears to keep whiter watch forever.

  2. Lord Ryswell then has himself carried to the wall to reunite with his son.

  3. Barbary Ryswell (Nee Ryswell) is jaded over being jilted by the Starks and insists on checking the crypts of Winterfell. She wants to stop Ned’s bones from returning to join his family.

  4. Gonna be honest I’ve kind of petered out, but to cut it short I was wondering if Lord Ryswell’s youngest son could be symbolic of the younger brother in the twin brothers Mytheme that is repeated in the story (Green King/Grey King, Summer King/Winter King, Robert/Ned, Brandon/Ned, Robert/Stannis, Aegon IV/Aemond the Dragonknight, Baylor Breakspear/Maekar (The Hammer and The Anvil) who goes North but becomes the Night King (whatever that ultimately is) and heads back to winterfell but is then defeated by his brother (Stark King of Winterfell/Garth Greenhand type person) and the King Beyond the Wall and essentially dies but is kept alive/not at rest with his soul in the wall somehow (and his companions).

Could this in some way relate to the pact and whatever was set up around the magic system/weirwoods/old gods worship/ending of the long knight (which may not ulimtately be the best solution) and the magical weirwood sites/magical sites and the number of them that had to essentially by “plugged”/built over - like the fused stone over the base of the Hightower (like a plug on a volcano), all the weirwood magic sites/Children tree towns/hollow hills (Winterfell, Storms End, Highgarden, Horn Hill (any castle that was built around a Gods Wood initially) that had to have someone sacrificed to the tree/joined to the roots in some way to manage the system/stop the magic/dead from coming out?? — Could there have literally been 79 of these places (because there’s not enough castles on the wall - of which there are only 19, even with Queensgate).

I’m sure the story must also relate to the story of Bael the Bard and whatever is going on with Gilly’s Monster, with some father son / brother brother killing going on, probabaly over some magic weirwood/moon spirit girl or something, etc etc


r/asoiaf • • 18h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers EXTENDED] What exactly was Viserys I's plan for his 3 sons? Spoiler

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5 Upvotes

r/asoiaf • • 3h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) three people Dany will married and fall in love?

0 Upvotes

“Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness… mother of dragons, bride of fire…” Daenerys, House of the Undying scene, A Clash of Kings).

So we know the “silver mare” symbolize the gift Khal Drogo gave her, who she was the bride of. And no matter what argument people had about her feelings for Drogo. She loved him even if people scratched their head around it, saying she young, she doesn’t know what she saying, she was groomed…

Now the “blue flower” many if not all believed to be Jon Snow. And their lot of theories or beliefs that Daenerys gonna marry Jon, fall in love with him, and he gonna be her true love.

Which being me to the second symbol “the corpse man on the ship” possible suspect is a Greyjoy.

Because Daenerys was married to the first one (Khal Drogo) and people think she will wed the third one (Jon Snow). This implied she will marry the second one. Their also the implication that she will fall in love with them all.

Well she fell in love with Drogo. People think she gonna fall for Jon. So she likely gonna fall for the second one. Oh and unlike with Drogo, Daenerys will be in a position of power when she meet her future spouses.

Yeah their also that Hizdhade guy but he not important


r/asoiaf • • 1d ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) so who actually care for the small folks

37 Upvotes

What kings and queens or lords and ladies genuinely care for their peasants? I don’t mean basic courtesy and kindness a lord can give to their small folk. That they’ll protect them like an individual caring for one pet.

What I mean is a lord or a king treating the small folks as equals, as fellow human beings with the same rights and privileges as them. Like they’re gonna be concerned about the feelings and pain of their small folk when they go to war to protect their family or avenge their honor.


r/asoiaf • • 1d ago

PUBLISHED (SPOILERS PUBLISHED) what are your opinions on how the last winter king submitted to Aegon?

17 Upvotes

Currently reading A World of Ice and Fire right now and they mentioned again how Dorne and the North are similar in that they were never truly conquered by the dragons, and this got me thinking again of how I would feel if I was a Northman and my king kneeled to the conquerer.

Honestly I do believe my first reaction would probably be annoyed, but then considering how many people died at the hands of the dragons for resisting it was definitely a selfless move on behalf of Torrhen Stark. It must have took a lot of humility on his part and love for his people, and I wonder how the rest of the northmen felt about it too


r/asoiaf • • 1d ago

EXTENDED In hindsight, was it the right decision to let Daenerys and Viserys live by Robert and Jon Arryn (Spoilers Extended)

46 Upvotes

Given everything we know, was it the right call? It's a question that comes up a few times of what to do with the children of defeated enemies. The worry is the kids will grow up and want revenge. And we know that's exactly what transpires with Viserys and Daenerys.

Curiously we don't actually know what Jon Arryn's rationale was to let them be. Robert's hatred of targs is no secret. And he's in a fairly fragile situation immediately post trident trying to establish a new monarchy.

I can't really figure out the upside of letting them be or the downside of finishing what Robert sent Stannis to do. I guess the one potential downside would've been Ned being mad. To what degree would he be angry? And for how long? We don't know.


r/asoiaf • • 1d ago

EXTENDED Kings of Dragonstone? (Spoilers extended)

69 Upvotes

Why didn't the Targaryens style themselves Kings before the Conquest?

I know this is a painfully pedantic question, but bear with me. Pedantry is a symptom of my love for this series.

There was a good hundred years between the Doom of Valyria and the Conquest, during which the Targaryens ruled Dragonstone and, as far as we know, paid fealty to no one.

But they never used the title 'King'. It's always 'Lord of Dragonstone'.

There have been Kings of the Arbor, Kings of Tarth, even Kings of the Stepstones and Kings of the Three Sisters. Anybody with an army and two hides of land could style themselves King. Why do you think the pre-Aegon Targs didn't?

My theory is that the title 'Lord of Dragonstone' we see used in Fire & Blood and TWOIAF is the loose translation of an old Valyrian military or political rank, think Westerosi 'Warden' or 'Castellan' or 'Marcher Lord'. Because that's what Dragonstone was at the time of Aenar's flight. A border outpost. And the early Targaryens preferred a title that tied them to their ancient homeland, rather than the foreign 'King', probably didn't hold as much prestige before the unification of the Seven Kingdoms, given the aforementioned load of Petty Kings scurrying about.

This question was spurred when I was rewatching the Dragon Time podcast, and they commented on a bit in HOTD when Rhaenyra spoke of a show-only, pre-Conquest "Princess Aeriana Targaryen", saying she wouldn't be a princess because they weren't Royalty back then.


r/asoiaf • • 15h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) What if Ned told Robert?

1 Upvotes

Yes, I know this has been posted thousands of times, but the context here is quite different. I'm asking how things might play out if Ned had told Robert about Jaime and Cersei when he was on his deathbed.

Part 1: Yes, Robert would be pissed and he'd want Cersei and the rest of them dead. But he's also fatally wounded - so he can't exactly go and kill them himself. All he can do is command someone like Barristan or Renly to bring him their heads. My question is, could Ned, in this situation, prevail on either Robert or his executioners to stay their hand? Robert was going to die anyway and if they go around chopping heads because of his last command, they'd be the ones stuck dealing with the ensuing war.

So could Ned simply convince them to arrest Cersei and the kids and keep them on ice? That they need to give them a proper trial before any heads get chopped off?

Part 2: What about succession? Obviously Robert wouldn't want to die without making sure that whoever succeeds him would see his judgment through. Even if Cersei is killed that very night, Jaime still needs to be punished and he is currently at Casterly Rock. There is no way for even a raven to get to him before Robert dies.

So who does Robert leave this task to by naming his heir? Stannis - because he knows he'll see it through? Renly - because he likes him better and he's there? Or could he tell Ned to call a Great Council and leave it to them?

Part 3: What if Robert names Renly his heir and dies? Obviously Renly would waste no time in getting rid of Cersei and the kids. And I don't see Stannis simply bending the knee. Doesn't matter what Robert said on his death bed, the older brother comes before younger and the law is the law.

So who does Ned side with here? Does he respect Robert's will because that's the honorable thing? Or does he still support Stannis because that's the lawful thing?

And how do the Lannisters respond? I don't think Tywin has the luxury to sit back and see who wins in this case, because no matter who does, they'd be coming for Jaime's head. He needs to act fast and parley his support for a general amnesty - but which side does he choose?

Stannis is much more stubborn and a lot less forgiving - he might need Jaime to be sent to the Wall at least. But at the same time, Stannis would likely need Tywin's army more, so they could settle on a convenient arrangement - Renly usurped the crown and killed his nephews. The incest story is a lie, but now that the princes are dead, Stannis is the legitimate king and Tywin is throwing his support behind him to get justice for his daughter and grandchildren.

Renly, on the other hand, could be a lot more amenable. He might even release Jaime from his kingsguard vows as "punishment" and let him go back to being Tywin's heir. But I can't imagine anything more humiliating for Tywin than bending the knee to the guy who killed his daughter and grandchildren. That would certainly make him a laughingstock of the kingdom.

So what does he choose?


r/asoiaf • • 2h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) Aerys was right all along.

0 Upvotes

Rickard was guilty and fire was a good choice.

  1. I don't see no rule that says a dog can't play basketball fire can't be your champion. Y'all are just jealous you didn't think of it first.
  2. Fire is a better system of judgement. We know that some people can survive fire and seeing as how it doesn't seem to be a permanent power, it must have some divine element involved. Choosing champions and having them fight is not a random outcome or decided by the gods. We know from Tyrion's second trial that this gets it wrong.
  3. Brandon came to King's Landing with false accusations and did intend to kill Rhaegar. We all know that the kidnapping story was false and Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love. Since love is the most powerful magic, you can see why the gods would be upset.

r/asoiaf • • 1d ago

PUBLISHED (Spoilers Published) Castles in ASOIAF are almost hilariously bad places to have a secret

16 Upvotes

Something I started noticing on a reread is how little privacy most important characters actually have.

They live in enormous castles, but those castles are full of servants, guards, squires, maesters, stewards, cooks, washerwomen, children, visiting knights and random household retainers who are constantly moving through the same rooms.

A lord can close a door, obviously, but even then somebody probably lit the fire, poured the wine, changed the bedding, carried the message that summoned the person he's meeting, or watched them walk down the corridor.

Even written communication isn't particularly private. Ravens generally mean involving a maester. Letters can be intercepted. Messengers can be questioned. And if you're in the Red Keep, there may literally be somebody inside the wall.

It makes some of the characters' paranoia feel a lot more reasonable to me.

We as readers get private POV access, so it is easy to imagine everybody else operating with roughly the same clean separation of public and private information. But from inside the world, information must exist in this weird fog. You don't know who actually knows something. You know who you TOLD. You know who was standing nearby. You know which servant brought the wine. After that, good luck.

And this also explains why seemingly trivial household positions can matter so much. A cupbearer isn't just carrying cups. A lady's maid isn't just helping someone dress. A squire, steward or servant can quietly learn who is meeting whom, who received a letter, who slept badly, who is suddenly packing, who stopped eating, who is angry after leaving a room.

Varys builds an intelligence network out of something castles already produce naturally: thousands of tiny observations.

It also makes me wonder which character is actually BEST at creating privacy for themselves.

Littlefinger is careful with information, but he operates in places full of people. Varys benefits from the opposite problem. Tywin often seems to create privacy through intimidation rather than physical secrecy. Doran might be unusually good at controlling who sees what because so much of his court mistakes inactivity for ignorance.

Who do you think is genuinely best at keeping a secret in Westeros — not because nobody discovers the truth by luck, but because they actually understand how information leaks?


r/asoiaf • • 1d ago

EXTENDED What was Tywin's biggest mistake ? Not remarrying ? Not accepting Tyrion ? Backing Rhaegar ( spoilers extended ) at Duskendale publicly ? Spoiler

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7 Upvotes