Moore's Miracle Man and a shocking scene. (Spoilers)

[u/MischiefRatt]

So I've finally read it. And I loved it!

So far ahead of its time, gorgeous art and great characters. I definitely recommend it to everyone.

Before reading, I was most familiar with Bates' destruction of London and the grisly violence that followed. Brutal stuff, I imagine it was quite shocking back in the day.

What shocked me the most though was the child birth scene! I have never seen that depicted in comic books before. I'm talking full on vagina stretching and the baby coming out. Multiple pages of it.

Is it an accurate representation of child birth? No idea. I'm a gay dude with no kids.

But it was very interesting. I read a lot of comics and have for decades and have never seen such a raw birth scene.

It was really interesting. Can anyone else think of another graphic birth scene in comics? Does everyone love Miracle Man as much as me?

I really loved Cream and was sad when he died.

[u/Human_Sir8534]

It is an accurate depiction, and was lauded as such when it was released. Glad you enjoyed the series overall! It gets a bit dodgy in the Gaiman years, but Moore’s run is absolutely amazing.

[u/MischiefRatt → u/Human_Sir8534]

It really was amazing. It holds up incredibly well and the whole series was fascinating and moving throughout.

I'm really invested in this world. Is Gaiman worth reading at all?

[u/Human_Sir8534 → u/MischiefRatt]

I think it is. It was written as kind of a challenge, how to disassemble Moore’s Utopia and bring it back down to the character study it started as. Sad thing is, it’s unfinished and likely never will be. With the Gaiman allegations and Marvel now remaking the character entirely, it’s likely we’ll never get “The Dark Age.” But the two parts we did get are awesome. Especially if you miss Evelyn Cream, lol.

[u/MischiefRatt → u/Human_Sir8534]

Awesome, I appreciate your insight. I'll make it next on the list!

[u/Human_Sir8534 → u/MischiefRatt]

Hope you enjoy it! Gaiman’s early comics work is quite experimental, but worth it. Of course this naturally leaves into recommending The Sandman if you’ve not read it yet.

[u/MischiefRatt → u/Human_Sir8534]

Very familiar with Sandman and the sins of Gaiman unfortunately. The biggest tragedy (aside from the victimization of actual human beings of course) is how hypocritical it all reads now. Breaks my heart.

But enough of him! How about the original Miracle Man? Like the really old stuff? Is it worth tracking down at all? I can't find many positive discussions about it but that doesn't mean it's bad. Golden Age stuff is pretty hit or miss with me but I'm quite obsessed with this world.

[u/Human_Sir8534 → u/MischiefRatt]

I’ll be honest here, I admire Mick Anglo and the classic Marvel/Miracleman work , and what it later inspired, but it is terribly derivative. It was never really meant to be more than a simple riff on America’s Captain Marvel. Moore (and really Warrior magazine in general,) are really where it gets elevated.

[u/MischiefRatt → u/Human_Sir8534]

Ok, that makes sense from what I've read. I won't seek too hard for it.

Thank you.

[u/Human_Sir8534 → u/MischiefRatt]

If you buy the Marvel reprint issues of Moore’s run, they add a lot of reprinted classic MM stuff to fill out the page count! They released some hardcovers of classic reprints too!

[u/MischiefRatt → u/Human_Sir8534]

Are the Marvel reprints censored or altered in any way?

[u/jonbodhi → u/MischiefRatt]

You kinda see it during the run in those ‘dream sequences.’ It’s almost comically derivative of the original Captain Marvel (or Shazam!), which makes Moore’s reinterpretation even more impressive than his work on Swamp Thing, which was far better before Moore got there.

You have read Moore’s run on Swamp Thing, haven’t you? If not, why are you reading this? Run, don’t walk, to the distributor of your choice, whether Amazon or the public library, and read Moore’s Swamp Thing. Reading it made me feel like the top of my head was coming off. I never imagined such things in comics. Of course, I read it before MM, so YMMV!

There’s also a connection to Sandman, and the classic ‘cereal convention’ issue, when ST takes a tour of America. And there’s the Swamp Thing vs. Batman issue. Who wins? You may be surprised. 🤔

[u/MischiefRatt → u/jonbodhi]

I have Moore's Swamp Thing in trades and I hold it close to my heart.

[u/Kdilla77 → u/MischiefRatt]

Golden Age is beautiful and melancholic. It holds up.

[u/518gpo]

I loved when the baby started talking shit.

[u/MischiefRatt → u/518gpo]

Yes! Winter is my favorite comic baby ever.

[u/BaronZhiro]

I just re-read it all over the last couple of nights (for the umpteenth time). It’s beyond astounding and it’s always cool when someone new comes along to appreciate it.

I actually remember when that childbirth issue came out!

[u/MischiefRatt → u/BaronZhiro]

Did you read it at the time? Do you remember the general discussion around it?

[u/BaronZhiro → u/MischiefRatt]

I came on board just before that issue, and everyone in the comics community was excited about the series altogether. By that time, Swamp Thing and Watchmen and V for Vendetta were all coming out in America so pretty much everyone was floored by everything Alan Moore was doing.

But then when Book 3 started coming out, that seemed to take it all up to the next level. The last chapter was extremely delayed though so that was a long period of shared suffering.

[u/MischiefRatt → u/BaronZhiro]

Was there any general public notice of the birth scene? I'm in Canada and I'm confident that there would have been an article or two in newspapers.

And what a time to be reading things fresh off the rack. I'm very jealous!

[u/jonbodhi → u/MischiefRatt]

There was some. I think there were warning labels and restricted access in some places. Of course, people were more outraged by that, than the ultra-violence in london. Some people!🙄

America’s relationship to sex always baffles me: we’re outraged by it, while being obsessed with it (I’ve read that Mormon-infused Utah had some of the nation’s highest proportions of porn usage😃!)

And yeah, Winter’s first words slayed me!

[u/BaronZhiro → u/MischiefRatt]

I wouldn’t say ‘public’ notice, but everyone is the comic shop was buzzing about it, that’s for sure. And it came out in an era when the forces of censorship were hanging over all our heads, so it came out with some worry attached too.

IIRC, there was a ‘warning’ on the cover that said ‘This issue contains scenes of graphic childbirth’ or something like that.

For my own part, I hadn’t read most of what came before yet, so I found it more ‘odd’ than compelling. But I bought all the back issues not long after that.

[u/Prestigious-Type6107 → u/BaronZhiro]

yep, read it at the time, I was 12. Picked up the 1st issue of Warrior when i was 8 and got stuck into Marvelman and V right then. Childbirth scene didnt bother me , being the 15th born in my family...

[u/salvatorundie]

Is it an accurate representation of child birth? No idea. I'm a gay dude with no kids.

Yes it is. Rick Veitch used the 1965 book by Lennart Nilsson A Child Is Born) as reference for his art in Miracleman issue #9. Also ask your mom.

[u/ralphmozzi → u/salvatorundie]

Dang, that burn is gonna leave a mark.

I came here to post the actual deets on the answer. You beat me to it 👍😃

[u/Excellent-League-423]

Yeah I feel the final arc really summed up what having supermen exist would feel like. At the behest of god's who walk among us. And Bates is a psycho.

[u/deckard38]

If you are looking for old mm comics I can recommend Apocrypha 1-3, set between issues 16 and 17. I wouldn’t go as far back as the marvel man ones.

[u/JakeBanana01]

Veitch was... he's an amazing artist but his style certainly has more than a hint of the macabre or grotesque; choosing him to depict the "miracle and beauty of childbirth" was likely not the greatest idea.

[u/Moeroboros]

So far ahead of its time

What does this even mean?

Do you think comics nowadays are more "advanced" than they were in 1989 when Miracleman finished?

How is a great book released during the era of great books "ahead of its time"?

[u/MischiefRatt → u/Moeroboros]

Ugh. It's an expression based on my excitement at reading something so incredible.

I wouldn't worry so much about it.

So what's your favorite Miracle Man character?

[u/Moeroboros → u/MischiefRatt]

Aza Chorn, the Warpsmith :)

He's so fucking awesome.

[u/MischiefRatt → u/Moeroboros]

I'm not 100% with the names yet but I think he's the one who teleported stuff into Bates during the big battle?

If so, I liked him too!

[u/jonbodhi → u/MischiefRatt]

Yeah. Those aliens were awesome. I loved how Winter’s birth suddenly made Earth an ‘intelligent’ world, or something like that, because she was an Earth native. Before her, we were considered on the level of chimps!😁

[u/ralphmozzi → u/Moeroboros]

I read the story focused on them dealing with an infiltrator.

The worldbuilding around their team, abilities, and social structure was wonderful.

I had to read that story like 4 times just to understand wtf was going on, lol.

[u/mighty3mperor → u/Moeroboros]

It was ahead of it's time. I read it from Warrior #1 onwards and my friends and I all know that the world of comics had changed overnight.