r/Anticonsumption • u/usernames-are-tricky • Sep 07 '26

Satire The Way Things Are Going

Post image

For the screen readers it says: "FDA Advises Meat is Only for Animal Cruelty Purposes, Not Consumption"

6.1k Upvotes

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1.2k

u/lovelysardines Sep 07 '26

Unpopular opinion, you can’t be serious about anti consumption with out cutting down/out on the animal products

488

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 07 '26

More people need to know the impact of animal products on the environment.

284

u/lovelysardines Sep 07 '26

Animal agriculture has spent a lot of money on hiding these facts, but i honestly feel like even if people knew most wouldn’t care or have the will to change

63

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 08 '26

[deleted]

40

u/lovelysardines Sep 07 '26

Im the same. I wont say im vegan cuz people will get indignant if they even catch wind that you are. I wont discuss it in person with people cuz most of the time they will just ask about it to argue with you and justify themselves even when you refuse to say anything about it. I find the behavior so strange and best not to engage

11

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 07 '26

I've found the opposite approach works better to instead it up more casually when it's relevant like it's the normal thing that it is. The conversations tend to eventually calm down over time with that

But I'm also generally good at not letting others get to me too much, so your mileage may vary

3

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 07 '26

Same, I only mention it if we’re ordering pizza or something and it naturally comes up. I never want to bring it up and make people think I’m being preachy, pushy or condescending.

13

u/My_life_for_Nerzhul Sep 08 '26

What a twisted world in which we live where those doing the morally right thing have to walk on eggshells around those perpetuating an atrocity, injustice and oppression on a systematic and unimaginable scale…

1

u/TheVeganPhysicist Sep 08 '26

You just need to learn to talk about it. If you start by finding common ground, this is less likely to happen. Whenever someone brings up veganism, or whenever I start to talk about it myself, the first thing I say is "Do you agree that animals deserve respect? Do you think it's possible to respect them if you're paying for products and services that exploit them?"

The victims of the animal holocaust depend on you speaking up. Learn how. Activism 101 - Anonymous for the Voiceless

2

u/lovelysardines Sep 08 '26

Most people are already defensive just seeing you live your life this way. The discussions they want to bring up are usually in bad faith. Im not opposed to having a genuine conversation about it if they actually seem open or curious about it. I think just being healthy and living your life already does a lot to show people that it is possible and you’re not suffering or deficient from it.

2

u/TheVeganPhysicist Sep 08 '26

Asking "Do you agree that animals deserve respect" in response to their question can completely change the course of the conversation. Try it.

1

u/howareyouhaha Sep 12 '26

There's an activist i see on instagram who stands in public places with a sign that reads "i agree with animal abuse" or something like that. It gets people talking. Your into makes me think of that.

It kinda goes like this:

Do you agree with animal abuse?

No.

Are you vegan?

No.

So you pay someone to abuse animals.

....and the conversations go on. He does really well with it. I think he has great talking points, if anyone would like to adopt them.

(Except I can't think of his name.)

2

u/TheVeganPhysicist Sep 13 '26

That's Cliff Grant. He's pretty good but he gets distracted a bit too easily.

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u/Badtacocatdab Sep 07 '26

You might want to look into the dairy and egg industry given that you care about animal welfare.

5

u/cellmates_ Sep 08 '26

100%. I was veggie before I went vegan because I had no idea about the dairy and egg industries and how cruel they are 😔

13

u/asthma_hound Sep 07 '26

People often do not respond well when facing their own hypocrisy.

7

u/Deep_Argument_6672 Sep 08 '26

I went vegetarian this year and I found it kinda funny and ridiculous, but also sad with how many people got... protective? When you say to them that you quit it. Like they literally start bombarding you with "faxxx" about plant-based food actually being unsustainable compared to meat industry and that "it's out nature to be omnivores and it's stupid to deny that".

-7

u/VeganEatin Sep 08 '26

If you are still eating dairy and eggs, you might as well eat meat too. There is just as much cruelty and effect on the environment with dairy, if not more.

7

u/Deep_Argument_6672 Sep 08 '26

That's a very toxic position that, if anything, will just alienate more people from lessening their consumption of animal-based food. You literally harming the good cause with such radicalism.

Person who are mostly vegan with exception for, dunno, cheese, are still better for environment and animals than person who actively consumes cheese, eggs and goes for KFC or McDonalds every day or two.

2

u/VeganEatin Sep 08 '26

There's no such thing as mostly vegan. Those people would be mostly plant based. And if people choose animal abuse because a random internet stranger merely told them the truth, well chances are they are just making the choice they wanted to make, and were always going to make, and are just pointing their finger to deflect.

12

u/sunnybacillus Sep 08 '26

i wouldn't say "you might as well eat meat too", but "you might as well cut out dairy and eggs too"

-10

u/VeganEatin Sep 08 '26

My point being she's basically doing nothing. Bragging that she has been a vegetarian for 20 years is essentially the same as bragging you've been a meat eater for 20 years.

17

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 08 '26

Your response is exactly why people don’t want to go vegan or vegetarian. Not eating meat drastically reduces your carbon footprint, even if you still eat dairy and eggs. Convincing others to support saving the planet starts by celebrating other’s efforts instead of criticizing that they should be doing more.

8

u/My_life_for_Nerzhul Sep 08 '26

I recognize that her comment was a bit harsh, perhaps, and I do agree that she should have encouraged further improvements instead. But I do hope you can empathize with the frustration vegans feel when we see people who should know better, not doing better. After all, there are incredibly horrific things happening in the dairy and egg industry, too.

Given your comments here, your heart is clearly in the right place. I hope you are able to make the necessary changes to go vegan someday. It’s never been easier, and it’s the very least we can do for them (the individuals who are exploited).

1

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 08 '26

Absolutely! As I’ve mentioned on other comments I’m pretty clean from animal products I eat eggs occasionally and honey. I 100% support going vegan. My doctor is concerned about my anemia and wants me to keep eating eggs.

I just think criticism makes people did their heels in and become stubborn.

-5

u/VeganEatin Sep 08 '26

Dairy is just as harmful as meat. Would we praise and try to encourage a parent that beats only one of their kids instead of all of them?

7

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 08 '26 edited Sep 08 '26

That’s not the same thing. Some people need to start slowly. If they start reducing their animal product intake they should be supported in that transition. People are less likely to continue their journey if they are being shamed into it.

Have you ever heard of positive and negative reinforcement? Studies have shown people respond better to positive reinforcement for changing behaviors than negative reinforcement.

I know you want what is best for the animals but other people need a softer touch when being convinced to try something new.

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u/n00b678 Sep 08 '26

Yes, we should try to encourage somebody who beats only one kid to stop beating their kids altogether, instead of saying "if you beat one of them, you might as well beat both."

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8

u/My_life_for_Nerzhul Sep 08 '26

Hey u/VeganEatin, fellow vegan here. I 100% understand and share your frustration. Vegetarians should know better. That said, we may want to encourage them to further change for the better instead of being discouraging because they haven’t done enough.

3

u/electricheat Sep 08 '26

Your point confuses me. Could you elaborate, perhaps with some approximate numbers based on averages?

Like, if a person eats 500 grams of cheese per month, they might as well eat 4.4kg of chicken and 2kg of beef as well.

And then support that argument in some manner? I'm really racking my brain to see how "in for a penny in for a pound" applies to meat consumption.

The only way I can understand it is if you don't care about environmental effects and only care about the moral angle, and view it as a binary. But I'm open to being convinced.

Signed, a vegetarian who I guess could start eating a bunch of meat again if there was a good argument for it.

6

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26

Not the person you are replying to, but I think they were intending to mean it somewhat hyperbole and just trying to pointing out the harms in those industries

(I don't think anyone should be advocating for an increase in any animal product consumption)

5

u/Enlightened_Gardener Sep 08 '26

Yep, if eating cheese is morally the same as eating steak, I might as well eat steak as well. That way I can have a steak and cheese sandwich.

I was veggo and vegan for years, there’s one way, and one way only to permanently convert people, and that’s to be the glowiest damn person in the room, with the yummiest food, and you don’t ever use the “V word” unless someone asks you.

You cannot shame or shock people into conversion, but you can make it seem like they will be slim, healthy, happy and the food is great, and they’ll be beating down your door to ask for a vegan cookbook.

I was vegan back in the 90’s, it was really rare and really difficult. In those days, only very spiritual people were vegans, and they were vegan for wholly spritual reasons, and it was fucking difficult to keep a vegan diet. It was rice n beans, or soy. No quinoa, no hemp, no acai, no chia, no chocco nut mylks and oreos. It sucked, quite frankly, but its made me a really good cook, for sure.

There were two whole vegan cookbooks in the whole world, one on Japanese Temple Food and the Diamond Family American Vegetarian Cookbook, which was actually vegan, but the word “vegan” didn’t exist everywhere; and indeed you could meet people who called themselves vegetarian who were actually vegan, and they called all the other vegetarians “lacto-ovo vegetarians”. Very confusing.

Gradually people started becoming vegan for ecological, or ethical reasons, especially after the publication of the Veganomicon brought vegan cooking to a much wider audience.

These days, its vanishingly rare to find people who are vegan for spiritual reasons; everyone is vegan for ethical or ecological reasons. So you end up with situations like one I came across where an Indian lady, vegetarian from birth and a strict Hindu, got attacked for her moral choices by a co-worker who had converted to veganism 3 months earlier, and who clearly didn’t understand that her co-worker was vegetarian for spiritual reasons, not moral reasons.

1

u/lovelysardines Sep 09 '26

You said was. Did you revert back to omni?

1

u/Enlightened_Gardener Sep 09 '26

Yeah had to, got very, very ill.

BUT, I still love making vegan food. I love bringing something super yummy along to potlucks. It doesn’t mean that we can’t all have some delicious vegan meals, just that I can’t live off vegan food 😊

1

u/VeganEatin Sep 08 '26 edited Sep 08 '26

Google can probably help you with those numbers. You can even guess at them when reflecting on how dairy is obtained. A cow is repeatedly forcibly impregnated (raped) and her baby is taken away, and she is hooked up to machines until she is worn out and sent for slaughter (meat). That baby might be sent to a tiny pen where it cant move, to become veal. When you buy dairy, you support the meat industry as well. It's just meat with extra abusive steps built in. Dairy IS the meat industry. So if you are vegetarian for the environment, why do you eat dairy?

19

u/PugsnPawgs Sep 08 '26

Very true. I finally made the switch after some people turned it into a social media trend to go green every March in my country (Belgium). It changed cultural percepties on meat, normalized veggie options in restaurants, then in supermarkets.

There's also been alot of talks about how consuming pork causes colon cancer in men, which resulted in less pork consumption.

As a result of these campaigns, I'm very light on meat (maybe once a month or so) and only eat fish or seafood every week or so. Most of it's being replaced by veggie alternatives or actual veggies and nuts.

66

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 07 '26

It takes time and repetition for most people to really internalize things. There have been plenty of people I thought were not going to receptive about it (and were not at first) who have started to actually change

14

u/lovelysardines Sep 07 '26

For sure. I’d tried so many times though out my life and failed. I don’t know what finally made it click for me but I can’t unsee it at this point. I think it started with anti consumption tho and just being aware of what i consume

38

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 07 '26

I unfortunately think you’re right. Whenever people find out I’m vegetarian the first response I get is, “that’s great, I could never stop eating meat”.

Edit, since I’m getting downvoted, I didn’t say I’m vegan because I still eat honey.

16

u/GewoehnlicherDost Sep 07 '26

This response is just an auto-defensive reaction. It means that the person has had some inner conflicts about the topic but is not yet ready to change their habits. Honey kills ecosystems, btw.

18

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 07 '26

I only buy honey from local beekeepers. Like my neighbor who has a small hive that he grew. I don’t think I’m doing much damage with that?

24

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 07 '26

Not who you are replying to, but honey production in general negative impacts on nearby ecosystems. The native pollinators do not produce honey

We found compelling evidence that honey bee introductions indirectly decrease pollination by reducing nectar and pollen availability and competitively excluding visits from more effective native bees. In contrast, the direct impact of honey bee visits on pollination was negligible, and, if anything, negative. Honey bees were ineffective pollinators, and increasing visit quantity could not compensate for inferior visit quality

https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ecy.3939

7

u/electricheat Sep 08 '26

Where do you live? If you're in an area where honeybees are native I don't think it's an issue at all, so long as you're ok with the treatment of the bees.

Just mentioning this since the other reply seemed to assume you're living somewhere where honeybees are an invasive species.

3

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 08 '26

I just double checked and Honeybees are native to my area

4

u/electricheat Sep 08 '26

Baller. Yeah most of the arguments you'll hear are from people in North America where honeybees outcompete our native bees.

4

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26 edited Sep 08 '26

Your account talks about being from the US? Honeybees are not native to the US

EDIT: also studies have also found harm in Europe as well. It's not limited to where they are native

But recent studies conducted in Europe and North America seem to suggest that when honeybees are introduced into urban areas they can outcompete the wild bees.

[...]

In Munich, an increase in hives in the surrounding area reduced the number of wild bees recorded between May and July in the city’s botanical garden. Similarly, in Paris, fewer wild bees were observed when more hives were introduced across the city. The findings were echoed in Montreal, which between 2013 and 2020 witnessed a twelvefold increase in hives from 250 to almost 3,000. Sites with the largest increase had the biggest drop in wild bee species.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/07/help-bees-dont-become-a-beekeeper-honeybeee-hive-biodiversity

3

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 08 '26

Oh, maybe they aren’t then, the ecological nature preserve in my city listed them as part of the ecosystem keeping the wetlands thriving. I thought they were. I can quit honey.

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u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26

Studies have also found harm in Europe as well. It's not limited to where they are native

But recent studies conducted in Europe and North America seem to suggest that when honeybees are introduced into urban areas they can outcompete the wild bees.

[...]

In Munich, an increase in hives in the surrounding area reduced the number of wild bees recorded between May and July in the city’s botanical garden. Similarly, in Paris, fewer wild bees were observed when more hives were introduced across the city. The findings were echoed in Montreal, which between 2013 and 2020 witnessed a twelvefold increase in hives from 250 to almost 3,000. Sites with the largest increase had the biggest drop in wild bee species.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/07/help-bees-dont-become-a-beekeeper-honeybeee-hive-biodiversity

2

u/osamabinpoohead Sep 08 '26

A bee makes food for themselves.... not humans. Same with a cows milk. Its for their baby, again, not humans.

10

u/Massive-Act6899 Sep 08 '26

Nor could I, honestly. I eat a vegetarian diet every day of the week but if I’m out I’ll eat meat, or on odd occasions I’ll buy meat to cook a specific dish.

I feel like most people think they could never be vegetarian cause they assume they’d have to totally abstain from meat. Truth is you can have a vegetarian diet 95% of the time and still eat meat when you fancy it or when it’s given to you. I only eat vegetarian cause of financial and health reasons, so I’m not a true vegetarian I guess.

8

u/electricheat Sep 08 '26

You're within the range of what people I've met who call themselves vegetarian do. Though I didn't use it to describe myself when I ate in that manner.

If we need a term, something like flexitarian is probably a bit closer and avoids the "true vegetarian" debate.

4

u/Enlightened_Gardener Sep 08 '26

Flexitarian, Meatless Mondays, Taco Tuesdays…. so many ways to shift a tiny bit of suffering out of the system.

2

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 08 '26

I advocate for people to do what’s best for their health. If that’s what works for you, that’s great! Don’t let the people in this sub shame you for your choices.

18

u/SomeDumbGamer Sep 07 '26

Honestly ending the subsidies would do a huge amount to reduce how much we consume.

Seitan is real tasty and can be made into tons of stuff. It would not be hard for people to adopt it and soy as their main proteins with how many ways we can enrich foods these days. Meat would simply become a luxury like it always has been throughout human history. Something to be enjoyed on weekends and special occasions.

We could even breed cold hardy almonds that could be grown all over the continent. There are solutions if people actually want to apply them.

7

u/lovelysardines Sep 07 '26

For sure, but at this point I’m banking more on innovation in the industry (i.e lab meat and precision fermentation) than relying on government and the general public.

4

u/Badtacocatdab Sep 07 '26

Be the change you want to see.

3

u/hopeful-homesteader Sep 07 '26

Yep and sometimes it takes generations. We’re working on being better so our kids can take it even further. Moving onto five acres this year and we’re going to be as intentional as possible with the food we eat!

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u/0202_tihssitidder Sep 07 '26

Go watch Dominion.

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u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 07 '26

I already don’t eat meat. I’d rather not watch something that will make me cry.

14

u/monemori Sep 08 '26

Still, watch it if you eat dairy/eggs tbh!

3

u/Enlightened_Gardener Sep 08 '26

Nothing like a bit of trauma porn to gussie up the moral responses !

If you need to watch something like this to beat yourself up into becoming vegan, I would gently suggest you’re becoming vegan for the wrong reasons.

Being veggo is fine.

3

u/osamabinpoohead Sep 08 '26

People should be confronted with what theyre paying other men to do to animals.

Considering the propaganda were fed from animal ag.

-1

u/ApartmentSad9239 Sep 13 '26

Meat does taste nice though :-)

0

u/osamabinpoohead Sep 13 '26

Sure, gRape also feels good....

I'm comparing the injustice btw, "eating meat" isnt a victimless thing, its not like buying a green car over a red one.

We need to be reminded that "meat" was someone's body parts.

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u/the_inbetween_me Sep 07 '26

Every time I read someone say that AI is so bad for the environment, I always wonder if they eat meat. Because eating meat is exponentially worse for the environment. (oblogatory: yes, I hate AI too)

13

u/electricheat Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 07 '26

The main issue with AI is the scale of its use, and the centralization of the negative effects. The water and power is incredible for a given facility, but if you break it down by user it's a pittance compared to the pollution and waste created by other daily activities.

I get frustrated when people are extremely critical of a person engaging chatgpt for environmental reasons, when they would never question that person eating a hamburger, driving to see a movie, or playing a video game.

IMO people need to consider the overall impact rather than fixating on the 'right' and 'wrong' types of recreational/unnecessary consumption. Unless one is hardline and against all of it. That's cool too.

1

u/Speculative_Human Sep 08 '26

How is playing a video game or watching a movie comparable to using LLMs?

3

u/electricheat Sep 08 '26

Electricity/oil consumption, and therefore water usage and carbon output.

The gaming session is harder to pin down, as it's possible someone could be on solar. But the comment was assuming an average person who uses grid power.

There's a good argument for the social cost of LLMs, but I was focusing on the environmental angle.

0

u/ApartmentSad9239 Sep 13 '26

My god literally you just want people to sit in tents or something 🤣🤣

1

u/electricheat Sep 13 '26

I don't think I said or implied anything of the sort. Though if you let me know what makes you think that, I could probably clarify where you lost the conversational thread.

edit: nevermind I see this is a troll account. Since your reply history shows you're unserious, I retract my offer.

3

u/JazzOnaRitz Sep 07 '26

Ahh, acktually.

We don’t eat beef, but we eat a ton of venison that we harvest and process ourselves. Small asterisk.

-1

u/DukeOfTheDodos Sep 08 '26

Okay, but that's just objectively untrue. AI data centers actively poison the environment around them, while the worst you get with meat production is methane gas from cows(which can be mitigated by just... farming cleaner animals)

7

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26

Not who you are replying to, but it's a lot more than methane. In addition even best case production still produces a lot of methane compare to even the worst case plant production

The evidence suggests, no: plant-based foods emit fewer greenhouse gases than meat and dairy, regardless of how they are produced.

[…]

Plant-based protein sources – tofu, beans, peas and nuts – have the lowest carbon footprint. This is certainly true when you compare average emissions. But it’s still true when you compare the extremes: there’s not much overlap in emissions between the worst producers of plant proteins, and the best producers of meat and dairy.

https://ourworldindata.org/less-meat-or-sustainable-meat

They are heavy deforesters

Extensive cattle ranching is the number one culprit of deforestation in virtually every Amazon country, and it accounts for 80% of current deforestation

https://wwf.panda.org/discover/knowledge_hub/where_we_work/amazon/amazon_threats/unsustainable_cattle_ranching/

For overall environmental stats

Transitioning to plant-based diets (PBDs) has the potential to reduce diet-related land use by 76%, diet-related greenhouse gas emissions by 49%, eutrophication by 49%, and green and blue water use by 21% and 14%, respectively, whilst garnering substantial health co-benefits

It's the leading cause of water depletion in the American west

https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/8/1614/html

Correspondingly, our hydrologic modelling reveals that cattle-feed irrigation is the leading driver of flow depletion in one-third of all western US sub-watersheds; cattle-feed irrigation accounts for an average of 75% of all consumptive use in these 369 sub-watersheds. During drought years (that is, the driest 10% of years), more than one-quarter of all rivers in the western US are depleted by more than 75% during summer months (Fig. 2 and Supplementary Fig. 2) and cattle-feed irrigation is the largest water use in more than half of these heavily depleted rivers

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1064&context=wffdocs

And if you want something more literally poison related

Our findings suggest a link between higher AFO/CAFO [Animal Feeding Operation / Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation] exposure and increased cancer incidence across various US states

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935126006286

1

u/DukeOfTheDodos Sep 08 '26

How is that relevant? The other guy said nothing about plant-based farming, only that farming meat is allegedly worse than AI datacenters.

0

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26

That was in response to a claim that there was a way to just do it better, which there is not much way to do. Animal farming is inherently inefficient

But the comment above was not just comparison. Is causing 80% of Amazon deforestation not relevant? Being a leading cause of draining the American West isn't relevant? Causing cancer rates nearby them to be higher isn't relevant?

0

u/DukeOfTheDodos Sep 08 '26

The comparison to PLANT FARMING is irrelevant. I was specifically refuting the comparison between animal farming and AI centers, stop putting words into my mouth.

1

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26

The comparison was responding to the "which can be mitigated by just... farming cleaner animals" as not being true

19

u/CosmicGoddess777 Sep 07 '26

And their impact on the animals

And impact on human health too

And don’t forget that violent crimes spike in areas immediately surrounding slaughterhouses (slaughterhouse workers also commonly have PTSD).

All in all, horrible for the planet, other animals, & humans ourselves. 😔 go r/vegan 🌱

3

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 07 '26

I’m aware, I was just focusing on one aspect since everyone already knows it’s cruel to animals.

3

u/ShamScience Sep 08 '26

Sadly, I'm not certain they all do.

3

u/JohnnyRelentless Sep 08 '26

More people need to care about the impact of animal products on the environment.

1

u/Wise_Setting5110 Sep 08 '26

They know, they don’t care

-1

u/Ambitious-Toe67 Sep 07 '26

lol more people need to learn about self sustainability and stop relying on mass produced products either plant or animal based

6

u/LadenWithSorrow Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 08 '26

That’s great in theory, however, a lot of people don’t have yards and can’t grow their own food.

111

u/turntheairon Sep 07 '26

Less unpopular opinion and more uncomfortable fact

48

u/MsBatDuck Sep 07 '26

An inconvenient truth, you might say

56

u/RohanSora Sep 07 '26

It's taken an incredibly long time but I think people are finally starting to admit this and that they fell for the prolific internet propaganda campaign against "annoying vegans"

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u/CosmicGoddess777 Sep 07 '26

Seeing the change in how people see veganism is one of the few things that’s giving me hope for this world.

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u/inky_cap_mushroom Sep 07 '26

Nowadays there’s so many good substitutes out there too

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u/cleanlycustard Sep 07 '26

For real. I don't even miss meat, dairy, or eggs. I've found a good replacement for all of them. When you change your diet, your cravings change too

5

u/inky_cap_mushroom Sep 07 '26

The only time I ever miss meat is when I’m at an event with food and the only options are meat. It doesn’t happen often but it’s super annoying to just have to sit there watching everyone eat.

I also kinda miss sushi but there’s some good vegetarian sushi out there in bigger cities so I always treat myself when I’m out of town and I need to learn to just make it myself.

3

u/cleanlycustard Sep 07 '26

I get that. The worst part is having a diet outside the norm. Hopefully one day vegetarian and vegan options will necessarily become more common

2

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26

One thing that helps is being more active about it when you can. Organizers only change things when people speak up about issues. Don't assume it'll happen on it's own. It'll happen when we and other around us help make it happen!

1

u/The_Archagent Sep 07 '26

Are there any good substitutes for leather? Fake leather is just plastic, and it doesn't last nearly as long.

10

u/monemori Sep 08 '26

Real leather is hot garbage for the environment by the way, it's just been greenwashed to hell and back.

Here's a good post by acti-veg on leather and wool alternatives: https://www.acti-veg.com/2025/01/07/no-plastic-is-not-the-only-alternative-to-leather-or-wool/

It depends on what type of leather object you are looking for too. I have a lot of cork leather objects and I'm really happy with them.

1

u/Hazardoos4 Sep 08 '26

Leather I've never understood wearing period but wool does have very good case use for socks and outdoor wear. The way it dries when holding water prevents the severe effects of hypothermia when wet or sweating. Waxed canvas could prolly be a good alternative for outer layers but not base ones

-3

u/KapcaiKrusader Sep 08 '26

Leather is great and there are ways to tan it that don't harm the environment like the other guy claims

3

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26

There are so many more options than just plastic-based leathers. I have had some luck with wood-based leather holding up pretty well for a wallet material

2

u/inky_cap_mushroom Sep 07 '26

Not particularly. I usually go for different fabrics, but if I need something and leather is the best material for it I try to thrift it. Barring that I’d buy new but that hasn’t happened in a loooong time. Enough people will still eat meat that leather will be a byproduct of the beef industry for a long time.

0

u/Positive-Week-7214 Sep 08 '26

How do guys feel about people raising their own chickens and goats as a substitute? Like micro farming conceptually.

2

u/inky_cap_mushroom Sep 08 '26

From my understanding the scale is mostly an animal welfare issue, so on that front small scale is definitely better, but I don’t think there is much, if any, environmental difference between equivalent numbers of livestock in a small scale or large scale operation.

1

u/Positive-Week-7214 Sep 08 '26

I got you. TBH i love meat and milk-products but am anti consumption in other sectors. I feel similar to people liking cats and dogs but this is more useful if raising your own chickens/goats.

68

u/wafflewrestler Sep 07 '26

100%. everybody is leftist/environmentalist/anti consumption until someone mentions veganism, the only movement that requires you to actually change your daily habits and not just circlejerk in the comments section

19

u/lansink99 Sep 08 '26

It's crazy how quickly I see other leftist regurgitate right wing meat industry talking points the moment someone mentions veganism.

-10

u/OkNewspaper6271 Sep 08 '26

Going vegan is just super inconvenient or unaffordable to some.

Sincerely, someone who has tried going vegan on several occasions

2

u/ShamScience Sep 08 '26

Better luck next attempt. 

1

u/aspiringepi Sep 12 '26

Inaccessible, maybe depending on where you live and what's available. Inconvenient, definitely agreed. One thing I miss most about being vegetarian is just being able to go to any restaurant and order something without asking what's in it, requesting changes, and still receiving a dish with cheese on top :(

But plant proteins (tofu, beans, nut butters, seitan, etc) are so much less expensive than meat or eggs in the US, even with all the subsidies to the animal agriculture industry. Unaffordability of vegan food is a myth.

There are also several vegan drugstore brands of personal care items that are inexpensive and available at any CVS or online. What part of veganism are you finding unaffordable?

6

u/Not_FinancialAdvice Sep 08 '26

100%. everybody is leftist/environmentalist/anti consumption until someone mentions veganism

...or forgoing that international trip, or not buying an SUV, or maybe living in denser housing than a single family home on like 10 acres.

15

u/lansink99 Sep 08 '26

The thing people hate the most about vegans is that they are right.

1

u/uuntiedshoelace Sep 08 '26

I mean, a lot of them are absolutely not. Especially when confronted with questions about their personal ethics. But yes, the meat industry is destroying the planet.

16

u/trytobedecenthumans Sep 07 '26

Also it's just murder. We don't NEED meat, we just want it, and we're willing to put sentient beings through fear, pain, terror, just because.

-1

u/Soren-Draggon Sep 08 '26

There are a rare few who DO need meat. Some people can't absorb iron well and their doctors suggest they eat liver with a side of spinach, but liver has the highest concentration. But again, rare enough that they could maybe hunt for it or raise their own without factory farming coming into the equation. Liver tastes gross.

14

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26

There are modern ways to make hemoglobin iron and other specific proteins, enzymes, etc. from plants with precision fermentation. Impossible meat actively uses precision fermentation to make heme iron

This also applies to a tons of other stuff like we now have non-animal whey protein, non-animal egg white proteins, etc. on the market

-3

u/Enlightened_Gardener Sep 08 '26

Yeah I was vegan and am not now, that fake food shit is awful for you. Awful.

If you want to be vegan, eat real, whole foods. Make your own kimchi and saukraut. There are hundreds of cuisines that don’t use dairy - lebanese food is an excellent example of a national cuisine with plenty of naturally occurring vegan options.

This whole “we made a fake plant burger that bleeds, out of colours and numbers” is just, disgusting. Ultraprocessed foods are just as shit for you if they’re vegan than if they contain milk protein. I wouldn’t buy anything that contained these fake foods, seriously “non-animal whey protein” ? No-one needs this shit for protein. This is exactly the garbage that gives you bowel cancer.

5

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26

To note, most plant-based meats and the like do not currently use precision fermentation for that. But to address the broader point, they are still better than animal-based foods health wise

While ultra-processed plant-based foods are less healthy than whole plant foods, they may offer better cardiometabolic outcomes than unprocessed animal-based products

[...]

Several RCTs have evaluated the effects of plant-based meat analogs on various health outcomes. Particularly, a meta-analysis comprising a total of 7 RCTs found that replacing meat with plant-based analogs (pea, soy, or mycoprotein-based) resulted in reductions of 6% in TC, 12% in LDL-C, and 1% in body weight, [24]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13668-025-00704-6

0

u/Enlightened_Gardener Sep 09 '26

Bodyweight and LDL-C are absolutely not a measure of health. C’mon.

I’m not saying “eat meat” - I’m saying stop eating disgusting highly processed meat analogs. Stop eating highly processed cheese analogs. Eat real, whole foods. Accept that as a vegan you do not eat or want meat or cheese, so stop trying to fake it.

2

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 09 '26

I don't think this conversation is going to be productive if we're just going to ignore health outcomes as being health outcomes

The point of being vegan is to not do harm to non-human animals and the environment. We should not be ignoring scientific results and discourage people from taking steps to move that way

8

u/shnuffle98 Sep 08 '26

Yeah but everyone else doesn't, so this is just a useless strawman that doesn't help anyone.

8

u/R0BisBak Sep 07 '26

Glad to see people waking up

12

u/anonareyouokay Sep 07 '26

It's literally the only thing normal individuals can do to reduce their climate impact.

22

u/CosmicGoddess777 Sep 07 '26

Veganism is the “single biggest way” to reduce your environmental impact— Oxford University study

I wouldn’t say it’s the only thing you can do to reduce impact, cuz every bit counts, & even vegans can still do other stuff to help the environment in addition to being vegan (like recycling, for instance). But being vegan is definitely still the biggest thing you can do.

I suppose the other biggest thing besides being vegan is choosing to not have children either, cuz those cause climate change & even more limited resources. Plus, humans are the most destructive species on this earth… we need to give the planet a break…

5

u/lukamson_zioncic Sep 08 '26

Nah. You could bike/walk/use public transport for transportation (I realize rural areas/suburban sprawl exists), you could stop spewing out kids, you could decollate a CEO. There's a lot of normal stuff you could do.

7

u/anonareyouokay Sep 08 '26

The point of that's all negligible compared to the carbon emissions saved by cutting out meat.

2

u/lukamson_zioncic Sep 08 '26

Oh, for sure! I would argue my last one might come close.

2

u/anonareyouokay Sep 08 '26

If you successfully manage to tax* a billionaire or CEO, then sure. 😭

*😏

1

u/ShamScience Sep 08 '26

You're too pessimistic. It just all takes effort.

2

u/kdupe1849 Sep 08 '26

1/3 of the reason I gave up animal products is for the environment- land and water usage, carbon footprint, etc. The vegans always get mad at me whenever I talk about this, they're like "it's not a f***ing diet!!!", fun group of people

2

u/lovelysardines Sep 08 '26

Same here. It makes sense they would say that considering they don’t see it as just a diet. Its a whole philosophy about not exploiting animals as much as practically possible

1

u/kdupe1849 Sep 08 '26

Yeah but anytime I mention health or environmental benefits of veganism they get super angry, makes no sense to me.

2

u/Not_FinancialAdvice Sep 08 '26

At this point, the cost of meat (beef, especially) is making lots of people unintentionally anti-consumption.

1

u/lovelysardines Sep 08 '26

True but i think there’s a different mindset when you’re intentionally anticonsuption vs being forced into it. Like over at r/frugal they were complaining about the price of meat and i suggested letting go of it and using other cheaper forms of protein like tofu, seitan and tvp. People did not like that

9

u/CharmingMechanic2473 Sep 07 '26

My pets are laying chickens. Way more economical than a dog. They make breakfast, mayo, hollandaise sauce, quiche, soup, eat pests, fertilize the soil, and companionship.

3

u/sharbivore Sep 07 '26

you rescued animals so you can do to them exactly what they needed rescuing from?

17

u/Pittsbirds Sep 07 '26

People really act like sticking a chicken in a backyard takes away the biological horror and health consequences of a bird being selectively bred to produce hundreds of eggs per year lol

11

u/AceOfPlagues Sep 08 '26

People really act like backyard chickens don't typically live in remarkably better conditions than a fucking factory farm.

I understand your arguments, but I just think the alterative of euthanizing an entire species is grim.

18

u/monemori Sep 08 '26

That's not the alternative. The real alternative is to stop breeding these chickens entirely and put the ones who already suffer this problems on hormonal treatment so they stop overlaying, like they do in sanctuaries (although that would mean little to no eggs! Suddenly no one wants to do that).

-4

u/Enlightened_Gardener Sep 08 '26

It is the alternative I’m afraid. If we didn’t keep chickens for meat and eggs, we wouldn’t keep them at all, same for most domesticated animals.

There are wild jungle fowl still living in India, living their best chicken lives. And all the others would die out within a couple of years.

No-one is going to keep a stack of chicken breeds alive on contraceptives for the hell of it.

5

u/monemori Sep 08 '26

But that's not massacring animals? That's just not breeding them just to kill them. Which is a good thing.

-2

u/frisch85 Sep 08 '26

The actual real alternative is to take the chicken and put them out into the wild, because if you guys want to go back to before we domesticated wild animals then you need to leave them on their own and have nature do it's thing, they will probably be killed within the first week but that's exactly what "100% away from animal products" is supposed to work towards.

Otherwise you're turning them into pets, but animals aren't pets either. The basic principle of domesticated animals is you give them something and they give you something else in return, if one party doesn't give something then it's not a co-existence anymore.

Stop exclusively thinking of industrialized meat farms, what /u/CharmingMechanic2473 does is exactly what you're supposed to do with domesticated animals that you want to co-exist with, you give them food, shelter and protection, they give you something in return, for chicken that's eggs. I am not talking about chicken on steroids where they lay an egg each day, just normal chicken where you check, they got no egg, fine, if there's an egg, you're free to use it.

I just want to know when people have become so estranged to the principle of co-existence, it's not even that this is exclusive to us humans, animals too sometimes live in co-existence helping each other out by making trades, usually we humans give food, shelter and protection against predators.

4

u/monemori Sep 08 '26

...why the hell would you breed domesticated animals just to release them into the wild?

How is that an alternative to anything?? What?

Dude, just do not breed them anymore. It's that easy.

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2

u/CharmingMechanic2473 Sep 09 '26

Well my hens leave their coop each day, forage and return on their own. I supplement feed, provide some safety (if they choose) from Foxes and birds, and vetrinary care. They really are a joy though, such intelligent animals and they love their humans. Now that I have my iwn the thought of them stuck in little cages without socializing and play is really sad. They play with each other, wild rabbits, wild turkeys, and deer.

1

u/frisch85 Sep 09 '26

As how it's supposed to be, have chicken and giving them a good life, they're not being forced to breed and lay eggs.

My grandfather also kept chicken throughout his life, has stopped last year ago because he's gotten too old but he had not just a small coop but also a lager encaged range plus the chicken were allowed to just stroll in the backyard for hours a day, which was the dangerous part because my grandpa needed to watch out for a goshawk that was living nearby, he would try to snatch a chicken every now and day.

People don't seem to know this relationship towards domesticated animals anymore, where the animal gets an actual good life and their sole purpose isn't to just produce food. My grandpa also used to keep pigeons and bunnies too, we had cows and pigs also but this was before I was born, during my time we only had smaller animals.

One time I threw some currants into the chicken coop, grandpa saw that and gave me a spanking as apparently chicken aren't supposed to eat currant. I checked now out of curiosity and it seems only black currant can be poisonous to chicken, I was giving them red currant :(

8

u/Pittsbirds Sep 08 '26

The two options aren't "egg factory in a backyard or egg factory in a factory". It's "hey you know this domestic species that's inherently unhealthy for our benefit for a product we don't need to live? How about we just stop breeding it?"

People seem to understand this concept fine with pugs but then act like it's some great moral blight with chickens. Can't possibly be because it's easy to go your whole life without buying a pug from a breeder but takes effort to avoid eggs, I'm sure lol

-1

u/Shinonomenanorulez Sep 07 '26

And what are they supposed to do with the chickens?

28

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 07 '26

Sanctuaries often give chickens medication reduce their egg-laying rate and let them eat their own unfertilized eggs at that reduce rate to regain the nutrients like they would in the wild

16

u/Pittsbirds Sep 07 '26

Stop breeding them, stop buying them, stop buying things with eggs in them, and if available, use Suprelorin to reduce the astronomical risk of reproductive cancer and reproductive associated illnesses that come with egg overproduction like perorinitus and egg binding and calcium deficiency

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-9

u/TiredInJOMO Sep 07 '26

🤣

... what exactly do you think a "natural lifestyle" for a chicken looks like?

23

u/sharbivore Sep 07 '26

when humans selectively breed chickens into laying an unnatural amount of eggs.. it completely drains their bodies of nutrients

letting chickens keep and eat their own unfertilized eggs actually helps them replenish all those lost nutrients

talking about natural ————

the ancestors of chickens used to lay just 15 eggs a year just to survive and raise a clutch…
human selective breeding mutated them into egg factories that drop around 300 eggs a year

treating a chicken like a literal grocery store is straight up fucked up

-5

u/TiredInJOMO Sep 07 '26

You do realize that along with increased production came increased nutrition, right?

Besides, backyard farmers aren't generally "treating a chicken like a literal grocery store". Chickens are a part of the family who also chip in to keep the microcommunity/family running. No more or less than asking your kids to do their chores (which is different than sending them into the mines/textile factories before they've quit sucking their thumbs).

Backyard and some larger scale farmers are also working on bringing back "heritage" breeds for healthier flocks. Yes they don't grow nearly as fast, or they lay fewer eggs, but it addresses your first issue about selective breeding. This in turn necessitates less consumption of their meat/eggs while still providing the other benefits (pest control, fertilizer, and companionship).

10

u/CosmicGoddess777 Sep 07 '26

Or… how about we don’t needlessly exploit other beings? K thanks.

-4

u/TiredInJOMO Sep 07 '26

Or how about we stop pretending everything is "exploitation"?

Chickens (and other birds) eat garden pests, and help remediate/amend the soil. Humans keep the chickens safe from predators like foxes and snakes and healthy from parasites/disease. (OBVIOUSLY, since I'm certain some braindead individual is going to bring this up, CAFOs are exploitative. I'm not arguing for CAFOs.) It's symbiosis. But I guess they didn't teach you that term in Veganism 101.

7

u/CosmicGoddess777 Sep 07 '26

Breeding them so they produce 300 eggs per year (up from 12-15) and so that their bones crack from the depletion of nutrients is exploitative, though.

Real nice to say humans “keep them safe” from predators like foxes, but most of these birds don’t know anything more than a battery cage. Not very noble of humans at all to do that

-4

u/TiredInJOMO Sep 07 '26

Oh ok, so you're repeating the same shit over and over and ignoring everything I'm saying because if you repeat something enough times people will assume it's true.... that or you're incapable of formulating new thoughts so you just parrot whatever "vibes with your soul".

Cool, cool. Off to the magical commune with you, where nobody ever does anything and necessities just pop out of the ground. Oh, but be careful. Taking advantage of those poow wittle necessities is ekshplodayshun!

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4

u/Popcorn57252 Sep 08 '26

Hard disagree. You don't have to be perfect to be serious about something.

1

u/No-Weakness-2035 Sep 08 '26

Honestly I think this argument extends to just about all mass agriculture

-5

u/oxJoKeR6xo Sep 07 '26

r/AteTheOnion

22

u/lovelysardines Sep 07 '26

Oh i saw the satire label. My point still stands tho

5

u/oxJoKeR6xo Sep 07 '26

I think I replied to the wrong comment but I made a comment below along the same lines as you. A thousand years in the future I hope this would be true.

2

u/Flack_Bag Sep 07 '26

No they didn't.

1

u/theworstsln Sep 08 '26

Are you talking mostly about industrial livestock? I try my best to do my part but meat and dairy are huge parts of my diet. Is local, even your own livestock still 'that bad'?

6

u/kdupe1849 Sep 08 '26

99% of meat comes from factory farms in the US (I think in the UK it's like 75% 🤷‍♂️). I definitely don't speak for the vegan community but that should be the only thing we should focus on. Things like hunting and free range ranching our outliers

2

u/Enlightened_Gardener Sep 08 '26

I’m West Australian, 95% of our beef is free range.

It can be done differently, and better, but that means cutting profit.

2

u/LaurestineHUN Sep 08 '26

They will never get it.

5

u/usernames-are-tricky Sep 08 '26

For environmental impact, what matters more is what you produce than how you produce it. The emissions are even often slightly higher with less industrial meat and dairy production because of things like lower slaughter weight

Plant-based foods have a significantly smaller footprint on the environment than animal-based foods. Even the least sustainable vegetables and cereals cause less environmental harm than the lowest impact meat and dairy products [9].

https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/8/1614/html

Maybe some of the recipes on r/veganrecipes could give some inspiration for some ways to move along the meat and diary reduction path? I'm also happy to send other recipes I personally like if that's of any use

1

u/Xecular_Official Sep 08 '26

No true scotsman approaches that create entry barriers are a great way to stall a movement if that's what you are going for

2

u/lovelysardines Sep 08 '26

This whole sub is about criticizing consumerism. Many people don’t see animal products as a form of consumerism. My goal was to show that meat is also a form or consumerism and one of the most problematic.

-1

u/THELEGENDARYZWARRIOR Sep 07 '26

Not gonna lie man I rather not be anti conduction than eat less meat lol. If you go as extreme as to complain about the stuff we EAT like tje one universal thing we must consume, as long as we aren’t land whales, you will just be a laughing stock.

4

u/lovelysardines Sep 07 '26

I mean if you’re already anti consumption you’re already against the grain. Which probably means you’re not putting too much stock on how people perceive you. Also it’s not “the one universal thing we must consume” especially not in this modern age

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/lovelysardines Sep 07 '26

Yes, it’s good to limit driving as much as possible too. Both can be done simultaneously and not everyone needs to eat meat tomorrow

7

u/Badtacocatdab Sep 07 '26

But not everyone needs to eat meat.

-1

u/doesnotmatter286 Sep 07 '26

Not everyone needs to drive.

1

u/Badtacocatdab Sep 08 '26

Do you eat meat?

-1

u/PrivilegeCheckmate Sep 08 '26

I'll consider dropping meat when my diabetes is cured.

Until then, you come for my bacon?

From my cold, dead hand!!

3

u/lovelysardines Sep 08 '26

Oh the irony…

https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/red-meat-consumption-associated-with-increased-type-2-diabetes-risk/

0

u/PrivilegeCheckmate Sep 08 '26

Okay first off bacon isn't red meat.

Secondly there's no irony, because once you have diabetes you're de facto not at risk for it and need a more protein-focused diet. Also no irony because you are FAR more likely to get diabetes from eating diets rich in processed (especially ultra-processed) foods than pounding down steak. And genetics plays a pretty big role in risk factors, likely larger than diet ceteris paribus. Vegetarians and vegans tend to eat far more processed foods than typical omnivores, although people who are paying attention to what they are eating at all have a advantage over the majority of the population in general.

TL:DR you're better off eating any meat than Captain Crunch, and eggs/chicken/pork/etc are atcually good for you (although don't go with factory farming if you can avoid it). Bison is really good for you.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11559431/

3

u/lovelysardines Sep 08 '26

Really? USDA classifies all pork as red meat.

If you would read the article. It says that processed and unprocessed meat rise the risk of getting type 2. The irony is you talking about me coming to get your bacon from your dead hands when the bacon you hold on so tightly to is probably the thing thats sending you to an early grave.

Also thats a lot of assumptions made about plant based diet and processed foods. You seem to already know what you know so there’s really no point in trying to educate you on any of this

0

u/PrivilegeCheckmate Sep 08 '26

Humans thrive on animal protein, and even require it for stages of their development. Breast milk being donated ethically doesn't make it not animal protein.

1

u/lovelysardines Sep 08 '26

Nobody said anything about babies having human breast milk, but yes keep grasping for anything just so you can hold onto your bacon

-23

u/Square-Formal1312 Sep 07 '26

Can’t be serious about anti consumption posting on reddit from a device

12

u/mayamaiamaea Sep 07 '26

Why not? I’d bet most people on this subreddit keep their phones as long as possible. Just because you throw yours away every time a new phone comes out doesn’t mean everyone else does.

4

u/sharbivore Sep 07 '26

do you think throwing out a useful device is more environmental that keeping it and using it to advocate for the environment?

1

u/monemori Sep 08 '26

My device is refurbished! Will you engage with the argument in good faith now?

-2

u/Able-Swing-6415 Sep 08 '26

I agree which is why I don't bother at all.

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