r/AskConservatives • u/AutoModerator • 6d ago
AskConservatives Weekly General Chat
This thread is for general chat, whether you want to talk politics or not, anything goes. Also feel free to ask the mods questions, propose new rules or discuss general moderation (although please keep individual removal/ban queries to modmail.)
On this post, Top Level Comments are open to all.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 2h ago edited 1h ago
Another weekend, another drone crashed in my country.
My money is on Russia doing its thing again. Given how it flew into from Polish territory only three scenarios seem possible:
A. Russians launched a drone from Kaliningrad into Poland and then straight into Lithuania.
B. Russians launched a drone from either Russia or Ukraine, flew through Ukrainian territory into Poland and then flew it into Lithuania.
C. A Ukrainian drone got lost because of electronic warfare and accidently flew in to my country, though that seems unlikely given how I doubt there's electronic warfare on the Polish-Ukrainian border.
After scrolling way too much I think this video from Poland might be related: https://www.reddit.com/r/poland/s/WFdI6kA3LU
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u/ticklemythigh Liberal 8h ago
This is a kinda weird thing to say.
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u/Longjumping_Map_4670 Center-left 2h ago
Vance is a political chameleon and Rubio is a freaking hack with no spine but my god 25th this dude. Either one of them would be better than whatever the fuck this is.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 2h ago
I think we were all concerned about his cognitive abilities and not his asshole examination skills.
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u/Key_Day_7932 Center-right Conservative 9h ago
I've been evaluating my views. I think I'm somewhere between Charlie Kirk and Rand Paul.
I like to say I'm too conservative to be a libertarian but simultaneously too libertarian to be a conservative.
Since we have a two party system, how should I vote?
I guess there's the Republicans, but idk if I can support it in its current state. Can't vote Democrat either.
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u/thoughtsnquestions European Conservative 3h ago
I've been evaluating my views. I think I'm somewhere between Charlie Kirk and Rand Paul.
Same. I'm not American but at least where I live, no party resembles my views... For the 1st time I'm genuinely considering not voting. I know that only makes things worse but I'm increasingly feeling disenfranchised with politics.
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u/Boredomkiller99 Center-left 9h ago
You have three choices
Harm reduction, vote who you think will f*** things up the least
Vote for some third party if available to send a message
Don't vote for anyone if there is no one good and focus on helping your community in other ways or better your life in other ways
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u/Key_Day_7932 Center-right Conservative 7h ago
I guess I could vote Libertarian, but like I said, I'm probably too conservative for them (I often hear Rand Paul is not a real libertarian.)
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u/Boredomkiller99 Center-left 1h ago
Trust me I get, I am kind of in a situation I don't actually have a real consistent party to vote for especially in 2028.
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u/RatOnASinkingShip Right Libertarian (Conservative) 12h ago
Fiery but mostly peaceful protests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABEFhXBn8tM
French "student protesters" firebombed a historical city hall in a French city, Limoges.
Wonder whether anyone calls this an insurrection.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 2h ago
The more these "protests" go on the more I think that some of the protestors don't care about education but just want to go on a rampage using "protests" as an excuse to fulfill their wish of seeing the world burn.
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 11h ago
This is what most leftists want America to be
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u/Longjumping_Map_4670 Center-left 10h ago
Well the right did attempt this on Jan 6 in response to the current presidents blatant lies so there’s that.
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u/himenosgiantrack Rightwing 10m ago
I love how the left keeps trying to make jan 6 something relevant, guys it's not 2021 anymore
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u/Longjumping_Map_4670 Center-left 0m ago
Well I’d argue it’s one of the most egregious attempts at overturning an election with direct rhetoric spewed from the fake tanned clown himself and given he doesn’t shut up about it, they are going to go full throttle with trying to deny the outcome if the mid-terms.
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 10h ago
I think you mean the BLM riots where millions worth of property were stolen and destroyed? Or the recent one being the Tesla burning "protests." We'd be having riots daily if Kamala was elected.
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u/kjsock Democratic Socialist 9h ago
Wait I thought gas would be high and we’d be at war with Iran if she won?
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 9h ago
Thank God she didn't, we'd be in a worse situation
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u/Commissioner_Boredom Independent 11h ago
When you say this, are you talking about most every person leaning left in the U.S.?
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 11h ago
Obviously not. "some"
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u/URABrokenRecord Democrat 10h ago
People behaving badly thousands of miles away.... Let's lump them in with most American leftists.
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u/Commissioner_Boredom Independent 11h ago
Well, it wasn't obvious. You used the term most. Just making sure. Thanks!
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 12h ago
It's only an insurrection if they're right wing
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u/nucumber Social Democracy 8h ago
And they violently attack the Capitol to stop the Senate from voting to confirm trump's defeat
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u/JustaDreamer617 Conservative 13h ago
I ain't liking these polls in SC, Nordone [R] is only beating Andrews [D] by 2 points, I've never seen South Carolina get so close. Anyone know what's going on?
If we flip Blue first, you can forget about anything in Texas. South Carolina is the real Red Wall, Pres. Trump should come here instead of Kentucky first.
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u/DifferentManagement1 Independent 7h ago
Are you really shocked that Nordone isn’t doing well? Have you heard anything she’s said?
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u/SoulWriter23 Left Libertarian 11h ago
If you are talking about him coming to South carolina, that basically means it's over everywhere for republicans.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 13h ago edited 13h ago
America can learn a lot from the French far-left.
France has a bit of a debt crisis and Jean Luc Melenchon, the far-left candidate for the French Presidency (who is 2nd in the polls as of now btw), has proposed a genius solution to all of France's debt problems.
His solution is simply foolproof: France should simply stop paying its debt. (fine, only cancelling the debt held by France's Central Bank but still)
The confidence of the bond markets has been secured for another 300 years.
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u/thoughtsnquestions European Conservative 2h ago edited 2h ago
I don't understand how France is still a functioning country with a good economy,
One says, let's just not pay the debt, one says, let's just spend more, tax less and borrow more at high rates forever....
Any centrist who says, maybe we need to reform pensions?
- Riots and arson
Maybe we need to cut spending?
- Riots and arson
Maybe we add a new speed camera
- Riots and arson
It's just a random Tuesday
- Riots and arson
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u/DeathToFPTP Liberal 9h ago
France should simply stop paying its debt.
Why does this sound like something Trump would do?
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u/No_Fox_2949 Center-right Conservative 9h ago
France is genuinely screwed in my opinion. There’s not a single brain cell amongst their population.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 3h ago
They're definitely screwed.
Debt is insanely high, their deficit is high, the country is completely ungovernable that any attempt at reform usually results in the government getting no confidenced out of office by both the far-left and the far-right, any cuts results in Paris getting set on fire, the Parliament is completely gridlocked that the government has to use Article 49.3 to pass anything by bypassing Parliament and then praying that they don't get no confidenced again.
It would be fun to watch for me if not for the fact that France is an integral part of the Eurozone and I'm also in the Eurozone.
We all saw how a country like Greece managed fo almost take down the entire Eurozone after their debt crisis, but now imagine how bad it would be if a country like France falls.
But no worries I see people coping how it's all fine because the European Central Bank can just always print a whole lot of money and do some QE schenanigans to bail France out if need be so everything's fine.
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u/ericoahu Conservatarian 16h ago
If you have two different questions, start two different threads. Don't ignore an answer someone wrote to question A only to reply with a pivot to an entirely different question B.
If you are just a passerby and someone's answer to an existing question makes you think of a new question, don't hijack someone else's thread to ask it; start a new thread with your new question.
Red flairs: when you see people do this, at least within a couple replies to the top level comment, don't enable/validate the behavior by answering the new question. Respectfully point out they're raising a different question and suggest they start a new thread.
That's all for now.
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u/RumGuzzlr Rightwing 8h ago
I prefer to disrespectfully point it out and tell them to fuck off
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 6h ago
Yeah, but when I do that my comment gets removed and I get a ban warning.
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u/RumGuzzlr Rightwing 5h ago
And that's the mods fault. It costs me nothing, but makes them spend effort enforcing their shitty policy
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 16h ago
Absolutely this. Especially the ‘don’t enable/validate’ part.
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u/DeathToFPTP Liberal 16h ago edited 9h ago
Since I'm dumb, why would we want joint deals with Russia on data centers?
Edit: I should have asked for no sarcastic answers. I am in weekly chat, after all.
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u/Stanky_fresh Leftist 11h ago
According to one of the mods of this sub, it's because Putin is the good guy in the Ukraine war and Zelenskyy is an evil dictator. So it's good for the US to partner with Russia because Putin is a super nice guy who supports freedom instead of working with Ukraine.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 15h ago
It's the Art of the Deal, trust the 5D chess moves and we'll be winning so much that you'll be tired of winning.
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u/Peregrine_Falcon Conservative 16h ago
I'm sure that you're referring to something specific that I don't know about, but I will say "You do understand that the more business deals we have with other countries, like Russia and China, the less likely we are to have a war with those countries, right?"
This is why I just roll my eyes when I see posts of people freaking out "OMG! Why's Trump making a deal with Russia?!? Ahhhhhh. . ." Well, they're a powerful adversary and there's a risk of war there. So if we have business deals with them then there's less risk. Hmmm. . . now why would the President of the US want to make a deal with a foreign adversary that reduces the risk of them attacking the US? That sounds "America First" to me.
But what do I know? I'm just an American who doesn't hate America.
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u/A_Flirty_Text Center-left 15h ago
The chance of Russia or China starting a hot war with America and kicking of WW3 and the potential for a full nuclear exchange is so low, I'm unsure how this logic holds up.
Do you believe that there is a significant chance that Russia or China was going to start a direct war with America? If so - what's driving that belief?
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u/Specific_Praline_362 Center-left 15h ago
I'm an American who also loves America and who understands the point you're making, but I think the disconnect for me is being so friendly with Russia while being so adversarial toward our actual allies.
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u/Peregrine_Falcon Conservative 4h ago
I don't see Trump as being friendly or adversarial to Russia or our allies. The leaders of those countries understand that business is business and they're not going to get upset and start a trade-war, or an actual war, because of some mean and/or insulting tweets. Foreign leaders understand that when Trump tweets out silly stuff he's not directly attack them, he's just playing to his political supporters. They do the same thing in their countries.
When he, or his administration, brings up, for example, money contributed to NATO they don't take it as a personal attack, they understand that it's politics. No one is putting the Chancellor of Germany in a head-lock and talking smack about his mom until he gives in and decides to contribute more money to NATO. They're adults sitting at a table discussing the contributions like professional adults.
When President Trump says that the NATO nations haven't been contributing the amount agreed to in the treaty no one starts crying, they simply say "Well yes, we haven't. And here's why."
So no, I absolutely do not believe that we need to worry about how "adversarial" he's being to our allies. They're not going to stop being our allies even if they don't like President Trump.
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 16h ago
Have people just lost all sense of international diplomacy and global markets just for the sake of ‘getting Trump’? Is this how it’s going to be for the next few weeks? Good grief.
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u/Boredomkiller99 Center-left 9h ago
Context? i been touching grass lately so I have gotten behind on political bs, what happened this time?
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u/Sam_Fear Americanist 15h ago
They already supported a Schutzstaffel tattooed man in the hopes of gaining a seat/power, so yes.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 14h ago
Though he did drop out after the whole backlash
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u/Sam_Fear Americanist 11h ago
The backlash wasn't about the tattoo. He also apparently had abuse issues.
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u/RatOnASinkingShip Right Libertarian (Conservative) 13h ago
They still would have voted for him if he didn't.
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u/Midren Independent 19h ago
Why are we being nice with Russia and enemies to every other country in the world right now. I hope conservatives look back and reflect back on this time period when MAGA is over and really change and realize the damage they have done.
Also, Trump has cutoff starlink for intercepter drones, so literally letting innocent civilians to die because he wants to ally with Russia for some reason.
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u/WulfTheSaxon Conservative 11h ago edited 8h ago
Anonymous US officials speaking to Axis and AFP and Trump have denied any such cutoff. Ukraine can’t even keep its story straight on whether it’s up or down or what the “speed limit” is, which sounds an awful lot like Russian EW.
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u/Menace117 MAGA Liberal 20h ago
Man I'm not saying trump is a Russian stooge or a Putin apologist. But any third party observer without inherent biases could look at everything he's done regarding Russia and Ukraine, NATO, etc and make some pretty accurate assumptions about where his motivations are.
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 18h ago
Any honest third party would look at what he's done and find the conspiracy theory that he's a Russian agent about as believable as the Easter Bunny.
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u/ticklemythigh Liberal 14h ago
I disagree. There are too many coincidences/situations that seemingly involve Russia. Like Eric Trump saying they get all their funding from Russia, asking Russia to find Hilary’s emails, believing Putin over US intelligence agencies, having a meeting with Putin and no other aides, spouting off Russian talking points, lifting sanctions is both terms now, claiming Zelenskyy is destroying Ukraine. I just don’t think it passes the smell test.
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u/WulfTheSaxon Conservative 11h ago
That’s all false or misleading though.
Trump was first to provide lethal aid to Ukraine, repeatedly called for more aid when Biden slow-walked in 2022-2023 before Russia dug in, and expanded intelligence sharing to include deep strikes inside Russia. Biden lifted Trump’s sanctions.
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u/Menace117 MAGA Liberal 17h ago edited 17h ago
There is enough pro Russia comments and policies from him especially in the face of how hostile Russia is towards us and every other western nation that makes questions begged, which again any third party observer without bias would at least consider. Obviously we're more involved as we both follow current events closely. But if you take some random person who doesn't follow anything. Give them the general facts of the situation, and I'd guess they'd at least consider it. But obviously it's conjecture. Just going off how the situation looks and the facts. You may be right too.
They continue to remain hostile to basically every western nation and yet he continues to help them in many areas.
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u/URABrokenRecord Democrat 18h ago
I don't think most Democrats think Donald Trump is a Russian agent. Most people think he's a Russian stooge. And a person who would do anything for more money and more power.
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 18h ago
Close enough. That's also pretty far fetched. Conspiracy theory to me.
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u/URABrokenRecord Democrat 18h ago
Am I incorrect that The U.S. government ordered limits on Starshield satellite signals used by Ukraine, capping connectivity speeds for long-range and fast-moving Ukrainian drones and disrupting front-line missions? I could be living in my own algorithms and don't mind being corrected. TY.
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u/WulfTheSaxon Conservative 11h ago edited 8h ago
Trump has denied it, as have US officials speaking to Axios and AFP.
It really sounds like Russian jamming.
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u/URABrokenRecord Democrat 10h ago
It really means nothing that Trump denied it. But I will look into the axios reporting. Thank you!.
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 17h ago
You can verify that as well as I can.
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u/URABrokenRecord Democrat 17h ago
I wouldn't post anything on here without verifying it. But I'm asking: How that looked at as a conspiracy and farfetched when its provable and places the advantage directly in front of Vladimir Putin's feet? Plus they're going to get some pretty decent money from the lifted sanctions.
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 17h ago
The economic reasoning makes a lot more sense to me than him just being a Russian agent or stooge or whatever. There's too many counter points.
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u/URABrokenRecord Democrat 16h ago
Honestly, I don't think he cares who wins. He just wants it to end at this point. And he's putting his money on debilitating Ukraine.... Because it's easier/less pushback from a less powerful country. It's always easier to side with the bully. The bully is Russia. He should have let it play out but he's desperate for it to end.
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u/RumGuzzlr Rightwing 19h ago
Let me guess, your definition of a "third party observer" is someone who exclusively believes that we should be helping Ukraine above all else?
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 13h ago
I think who the victim and the aggressor is is pretty obvious in this conflict.
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 19h ago
I think people don't realize that Ukraine has never been America's ally and we have zero obligation to help them
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u/Yourponydied Progressive 19h ago
They were promised protection in return for giving up nuclear weapons
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u/WulfTheSaxon Conservative 11h ago
The memo promised the US (actually just Clinton since it wasn’t ratified) wouldn’t invade Ukraine itself. All it committed the US to doing if somebody else attacked was referring it to the UNSC, which it did.
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 18h ago
You are mistaken. They were not. They were given a non binding memo in exchange for giving up physical control of weapons that weren't theirs and they they didn't have operational control of. We've also broken that memo before, so it's kind of silly to come back now and say it matters
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u/Yourponydied Progressive 18h ago
Who broke the memorandum first?
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 18h ago
Actually the US did.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 15h ago
For Belarus... not Ukraine. Might have also partly be justified given how its Lukashenko, the potato man, we're talking about.
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 15h ago
And Ukraine. And most agreements don't have a "unless we feel like it's justified" exception.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 14h ago
Yes, but a lot of international agreements have a clause specifying that its "within the Charter of the United Nations" which is partly about human rights.
I think we all know Belarus' amazing human rights track record.
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 19h ago
That doesn't make them an ally. Also, the strategy of giving them bundles and bundles of cash clearly doesn't work: if it did, the war would have been over.
Trump is trying a different tactic to force both Putin and Zelensky on the negotiation table
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u/URABrokenRecord Democrat 18h ago
A tactic dismantling a key defense for Ukraine is not really a tactic. The US government ordered limits on star shield satellite signals used by Ukraine capping connectivity, speeds for long-range and fast moving Ukraine, drones and disrupting Frontline missions. It's giving Russia the complete advantage. That makes us an ally of Russia. More importantly, if we're just thinking about the US, many people think this gives China the green light to invade Taiwan. Do you think that's true?
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u/WulfTheSaxon Conservative 11h ago edited 8h ago
That didn’t happen. Trump and Axios and AFP sources in the administration have denied it.
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 18h ago
Thought Musk was useless? His tech is now important for Ukraine?
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u/URABrokenRecord Democrat 17h ago
Zelinski has never said that Elon Musk's tech was useless - that I'm aware of .... Of course it's not useless. People use it everyday . The US was the one that ordered this/ has nothing to do with Musk. How does that not help Russia? And how does it make all of this conspiracy? It's happening right in front of our eyes. Plus lifting the sanctions to give Russia more money.
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 17h ago
No I'm talking about the people complaining. Just searching Musk's name on this platform would show you how leftists think about him, apparently he is now important.
The U.S is trying to limit Ukraine from blowing up Diesel reserves, understandably to avoid the surge of oil prices
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u/URABrokenRecord Democrat 17h ago
It's irrelevant. Like Donald Trump saying this war would be over before he took the oath of office.
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u/Yourponydied Progressive 18h ago
That tactic also involving denying Ukraine access to starshield?
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 18h ago
Musk is now important, according to leftists?
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u/Specific_Praline_362 Center-left 15h ago
People can dislike Elon Musk while acknowledging that his Internet service works...
I dislike Duke Energy but that doesn't mean I think having electricity isn't important
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u/thoughtsnquestions European Conservative 18h ago
How is Putin being forced to the negations table?
Having sanctions, etc... yes, that can force a country to a negotiating table but removing them does the opposite? It's removing leverage?
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 18h ago
Easing sanctions has been more about driving down fuel prices and less about Ukraine
Having sanctions, etc... yes, that can force a country to a negotiating table
Russia has had sanctions for years, though. Has that forced Putin to the table?
All I'm saying is we should wait for the deal to play out and try different tactics rather than throwing cash at Zelensky which further prolongs the war
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u/thoughtsnquestions European Conservative 18h ago
I understand sanction relief plays a role in lowering fuel prices.
I don't understand your point that Trump is forcing Putin to the negotiating table?
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u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 Nationalist (Conservative) 17h ago
Maybe it's part of the deal. Honest question, what would be your solution to this war? Sending Ukraine more money or trying to negotiate with both of them?
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u/thoughtsnquestions European Conservative 17h ago
I think the approach of saying 2 options are open, we'll back Ukraine to win, or a peace deal option is open... and offer up, invite to the G7, ukraine won't be able to join NATO, sanction relief, increased purchasing of Russian energy, this move to normalise relations and eventually even the publicity talking about how the land Russian took will be there's... etc... all of these in RETURN for Russia agreeing to a peace deal
But going into a negotiation, saying regardless of what you do Russia, these are all yours, that gives up all leverage.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 22h ago
Zohran wakes up every day and asks himself "What cool thing can I do today which would also make New Yorkers happier?"
Today's answer is that he's hosting a free soccer tournament where anyone can come and play.
https://youtu.be/rLjYFG0r9GY?si=emmTV3J3ZETyA5Hf
Can we clone Zohran somehow because I want him as my mayor?
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 15h ago
You can have him and all the illegal alien criminals he wants to protect.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 15h ago edited 15h ago
All I read was Zohran saying that garage and parking lot owners maybe should avoid assisting ICE. It's not some brownshirts (the only brownshirts I know of are people who stormed The Capitol) it's a politician saying stuff and afaik there won't be any punishment for those who decide to serve ICE.
Somehow Obama managed to deport more people than Trump, but also not have ICE shoot at people as much and without sending illegals to El Salvadorean torture prisons. Maybe shows that ICE has become too full of unprofessional, untrained, trigger-happy agents.
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u/cenedra68 Independent 22h ago
How is possible that conservatives are with Trump and is relations with russia (joint data centers, lift of sanctions and diesel deal). America is not more the country that i admired. It seems that putin is blackmailing Trump is some way
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u/Fastluck83 Independent 20h ago edited 20h ago
The US are on the wrong side of history this time.
Kinda sad and makes me wonder what's responsible for this moral decay. Some say Trump is the reason, others say he is just a symptom. I'm still on the fence, personally.
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 17h ago
We were on the wrong side of history when we provoked and fueled this war.
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u/cenedra68 Independent 13h ago
So Ukraine has no rights to decide to make choice only beacause she has a bully as neighbour. Ukraine chose to leave Russia's influence
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u/Peregrine_Falcon Conservative 16h ago
Less be honest here for one moment.
People on the Left have been saying that the US is on the wrong side of history since the 60s. Nothing that we do is going to keep them from saying that we're on the wrong side of history.
Oh, and "the wrong side of history" is a completely vague BS phrase that means anything the speaker wants it to mean and is not something that any leader can base a strategy or policy change on.
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u/Midren Independent 16h ago
We didn't provoke this war. I really don't know why you keep saying this. Ukraine is allowed to be a sovereign country and it's people want to be as well. They don't want to be apart of Russia. Russia stated this a war and I don't know what that is so hard for you to admit. This is the classic example of blaming someone they got raped because of what they were wearing. The abuser is at fault but you keep trying to blame the victims in this
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 15h ago
A better analogy would be the we spent 20 years poking the bear and then cried hysterically when it poked back.
Ukraine is complicated. Some of them actually did that to be part of Russia. Some didn't. It's a multi ethnic state.Russia is doing the same thing the US would in its shoes. Just look at Cuba.
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u/TybrosionMohito Center-left 5h ago
But Russia didn’t poke back, did they? They got pissed that they couldn’t poke back (whatever poke even means here, form alliances with Poland/Estonia/etc?) and decided to launch a revanchist invasion of their neighbor. I already know the answer, but I’ll ask anyway. Do you believe in Ukraine’s right to self-determination, or should they vassal themselves to their stronger neighbor?
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 15h ago
Maybe Russia shouldn't have spent 300 years oppressing us and then act surprised that their former
coloniescompletely equal and self-governing Soviet Socialist Republics want to do nothing with Russia and are moving westward.•
u/Fastluck83 Independent 16h ago
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but one of these days I'd like to know how the US made the majority of the Ukrainian population want to leave the Russian sphere of influence and align closer with Western Europe, which started the heavy-handed Russian meddling, the arming of the separatists, the invasion of Crimea, and ultimately the current war.
I think you are overestimating the capabilities of the US if you believe that this was all orchestrated. The Ukrainians are more than capable of making their own decisions.
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 16h ago
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u/Fastluck83 Independent 15h ago
Interesting article, but it's too focused on US meddling and ignores the Russian meddling that was going on at the same time.
Example:
"When he (Yanukovych) rejected the European Union’s terms for an association agreement in late 2013, in favor of a Russian offer, angry demonstrators filled Kiev’s Independence Square, known as the Maidan, as well as sites in other cities."
Russia didn't just make an offer, it was blackmailing Ukraine to reject the EaP: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/resources/factsheet-unrest-in-ukraine/
Also:
"It was a grotesque distortion to portray the events in Ukraine as a purely indigenous, popular uprising. The Nuland-Pyatt telephone conversation and other actions confirm that the United States was considerably more than a passive observer to the turbulence."
The telephone conversation hints at an intention, but it doesn't prove that actual meddling took place. That's firmly in the realm of conjecture.
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 15h ago
You asked specifically about how the US affected the situation in Ukraine, then decided that the article I provided was ‘too focused on US meddling.’ Then you go and dismiss things you don’t like.
Have a good day.
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u/Fastluck83 Independent 13h ago
Is asked how the US made the majority of Ukrainians want to leave the Russian sphere of influence and your source didn't provide an answer, but thanks regardless and a good day to you too.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 23h ago
How did we even get here?
Russia and the US are negotiating joint initiatives focused on data center infrastructure, according to statements made by Kirill Dmitriev, a special envoy for Russian leader Vladimir Putin, on October 16.
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u/WulfTheSaxon Conservative 11h ago
Now you’re believing Russian officials?
If this is real it’s presumably about stuff that would be part of a potential peace deal, trying to convince Russia that if it gives up the invasion for lifted sanctions it will actually get investment, especially after the Iran sanctions were temporarily lifted and it hardly managed to sell anything.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 3h ago
I am very distrustful of Russia. However that doesn't mean that I don't believe anything they say. The context makes this statement pretty believable given Trump's whole diesel deal with Russia and how Trump keeps throwing Zelensky under the bus as of late.
You should selectively decide what seems to be true and what doesn't from what Russian officials say. They mostly always lie (they can't shut up about my country appaarently being full of neo nazis because god forbid we take down monuments for the Red Army that
reoccupiedliberated us), but sometimes they say something that's still within reality.•
u/Stanky_fresh Leftist 11h ago
Because Russia wants Trump in power to weaken NATO and the US, and Trump wants power so he's working with Putin.
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u/thoughtsnquestions European Conservative 22h ago
It's very strange.
I think the idea of these joint infrastructure projects, lifting of sanctions, increasing the amount of Russian energy bought, promise Ukraine won't join NATO and inviting the G7, etc... these are all things that could and arguably should be given to Russia as part of the peace negotiations.
But giving them up in exchange for nothing, it doesn't make sense.
seems that Putin is blackmailing Trump in some way
I wouldn't say it's impossible, which is itself pretty alarming for it to be possible... but realistically, so many people would know, Rubio, Gabbard, Vance, etc... countless others would know. If another country was genuinely blackmailing your president, you'd run to the media and whistleblow? Even non allies would know, James Commey, etc... yes, risk of lifetime in prison, but I think someone would spill the beans.
Another more likely option is Trump just oddly admires Putin for some reason.
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u/Yourponydied Progressive 19h ago
If someone came out and confirmed Trump was compromised, it would meet the usual slew of denial from his supporters and nothing would change. Maybe a few on the right may reject him
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u/thoughtsnquestions European Conservative 17h ago
People may reject it but if it was true, I think we would see whistleblowers, we haven't seen that.
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u/SenseiTang Independent 1d ago
For some reason social media keeps showing me videos of James Talrico getting "owned" when most of them are just conveniently edited clips or just outright false like the mental hospital thing. I have no skin in this game or any relation to Texas, nor did I have much of an idea of what was going on till I started looking into it after seeing it. And my god, is Paxton really the best they could offer? And could anyone even steelman for him that isn't just "Talrico is worse" or without mentioning the other side at all?
Seems like Talrico is just getting free advertising from MAGA bullshitters. Same thing for AOC when she was first elected; I had no idea who she was nor did I care when I did until the conservatives on my friends list kept sharing memes mocking her.
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u/Specific_Praline_362 Center-left 15h ago
They're nervous. It really is crazy because Talarico really shouldn't be polling as well as he is in a ruby red state like Texas. It's clear that they screwed the pooch with Paxton but now it's too late, so they're throwing spaghetti at the walls in hopes of something sticking.
If I lived in Texas, Talarico would be my obvious choice, but I'll be honest and say I don't like him much as a candidate. I can't even really articulate why, there's just something off putting about him for me. I watched the episode of Joe Rogan when he was on and have seen a lot of his stuff on social media. I don't know if it's the religious thing or just maybe how he comes across as...not completely authentic, but lacks the smoothness of a polished politician to pull it off, so it just kinda comes across as cringy and awkward. Like he's cosplaying a politician or something? I don't know. But the fact he's leading in TEXAS and the fact the right is grasping at these ridiculous straws about veganism or mental health stays makes it pretty clear that Ken Paxton is a really, really terrible candidate.
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 1d ago
There are plenty of clips of him saying outrageous and intolerable things. No need to conveniently edit.
He is a fraud.
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u/SenseiTang Independent 1d ago
If that's true, I just find it very interesting that I have to actively look for those clips but the conveniently edited ones are the ones being shown. Nevermind the other things made up. We might have different ideas and thresholds as to what outrageous and intolerable means so some examples would be nice.
But seriously though, you're telling me he's worse than Paxton? Could you steelman Paxton?
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 1d ago
What’s ’made up’ other than potentially the mental institution claim? ‘The flu’ doesn’t really add up to 12 days of disappearance.
Most intolerable things he has said are rule violations, so no, not citing those. Google is your friend there.
I don’t need to steelman Paxton, that’s not really relevant here. Talarico’s bastardization of religion, his desire to end the oil and gas industry in TX and potentially costing hundreds of thousands of jobs, his support for many DSA topics, support for Medicare for all, are enough for most Americans to vote against him. Not to mention his constant backtracking on things he’s said. He’s a complete fraud.
I really don’t give a shit about Paxton’s marital issues. I don’t give a shit about things he’s been accused of and acquitted of. Even Paxton’s ex-wife said to vote for him (she said vote for all republicans, which includes him).
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u/SenseiTang Independent 22h ago
Here's what I don't get. When a Democrat does or says something am I supposed to take it as a looming threat? Meanwhile when a Republican does or says something am I just supposed to dismiss it "because they're just trolling" or "it won't actually happen?"
The "intolerable things" seem to just hurt people's feelings. I'm indifferent to that, same as people being indifferent to mine. Politicians bastardize religion all the time regardless of leaning. How many of those things you mentioned are you concerned might actually pass?
It's astounding to me that the right is so afraid of the left that they end up picking garbage candidates because they're too busy telling us how bad the other side is. No different than TDS.
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 17h ago
The right isn’t afraid of the left. The right isn’t afraid of Talarico. We’re disgusted. Big difference.
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u/SenseiTang Independent 15h ago edited 15h ago
The right is just as emotional as they claim the left to be. Whether it's fear or disgust it isnt driving them into a good place. "Yeah but the left!" Isnt the selling point you think it is considering we've been watching the right do whatever the hell it is they're doing the past couple years. It's just the rights version of TDS; left focuses on Trump and the right focuses on whatever Democrat candidate seems to threaten them
If I may share, I grew up in an incredibly abusive family who constantly told me "other people are worse" while offering nothing but bullshit themselces. And since I left this family 11 years ago, the "other people who are worse" have given me places to go during the holidays, help where I've needed it, and several communities where I'm actually loved. At this moment the right resembles my old family trying to tell me "the other side is worse" when I simply have not seen that throughout my life.
I understand that many on the right have the opposite but equal experience with the left, but that's just not what many of us are seeing right now.
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u/Menace117 MAGA Liberal 1d ago
They're so desperate. They have nothing and are lashing out while normal people just want someone normal like Talarico. They have no ideas and their policies led to the country being in the state it's in. Kinda sad. But what are you gonna do. Let them lash out. November will be here soon.
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u/IowaGolfGuy322 Independent 1d ago
Trump puts a hold on the congressional passed sanctions on Russia. Totally normal to ally with Russia while throwing Ukraine under the bus. We really are winning everywhere.
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u/soccermaster57 Democrat 1d ago
He can't do that though right?
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u/Denisnevsky Centrist Democrat 1d ago
Section 15 of the bill in question gives Trump the power to give sanction wavers if it is in "the national interest". It's still stupid but...marginally legal
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 1d ago
Thank you for posting this fact. Most people wouldn’t even consider this could be a thing.
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u/Denisnevsky Centrist Democrat 1d ago
Obama did exactly this with the 2014 Russia bill (UFSA). Passed with Waviers, immediately uses it on the main part of the sanctions. Obama only signed on the condition he could immediately pause them.
6 terms of Obama
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 22h ago
Never forget Obama's famous words to Putin:
"This will be my last term, after the election I'll be more flexible"
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative 16h ago
By Reddit standards today, Obama would be pro Russia.
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u/GreatSoulLord Center-right Conservative 1d ago
Seeing Five Finger Death Punch play tomorrow night. Shame, it's going to rain but I can't wait for it either way. I saw them play at Welcome to Rockville earlier in the year and it was a super fun show. Speaking of which...I am so pumped for Rockville next year. I have 50% of my VIP tickets and RV site paid off already.
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u/GreatSoulLord Center-right Conservative 12h ago
It's cold as fuck in VA Beach. Someone call the people in charge and tell them to put the heat on. Damn. I'm severely underdressed for this..🥶🥶🥶
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u/RatOnASinkingShip Right Libertarian (Conservative) 1d ago
Some of the best outdoor music festivals I've been at were when it was pouring down rain all day.
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u/ticklemythigh Liberal 1d ago
Metal bands have the best names. Five finger death punch? Killswitch engage? Hell yeah.
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u/SenseiTang Independent 1d ago
Hell yeah. I saw them in my hometown of Las Vegas when I was high school. I was also disappointed to find out your show is in Florida, and not the Rockville, CA near me in the Bay Area lmao.
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u/EddieDantes22 Conservative 1d ago
Anyone else think the coverage of the Oregon shooter has been somewhat muted because neither side wants to bring up gun control this close to midterms?
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 1d ago
They don’t like acknowledging when a good guy with a gun is involved. They’ll put out a page six article and mention it once so later they can point back and say, ‘nuh uh! We covered it, see!!’
This happening in western Oregon, there’s a lot of people worried he’s going to get charged with bringing a gun into a gun free zone.
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u/GreatSoulLord Center-right Conservative 1d ago
Well, either that or because the shooting was stopped by a civilian carrying a gun.
I'd imagine that one detail sort of deflates the gun control debate a tad on this one.
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u/Specific_Praline_362 Center-left 15h ago
That's why the left won't talk about it.
The right won't talk about it because the shooter was just a regular white incel type, not an immigrant or a banned topic.
Also add in the fact that "only" like 4 people died and we as a nation have sadly become fairly desensitized to these types of events.
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u/GWindborn Leftwing 1d ago
Does it? Better gun control could have potentially prevented it from happening in the first place.
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u/GreatSoulLord Center-right Conservative 20h ago
Really? Because last time I checked there's already flgun control laws preventing someone from taking a gun into a school. That law sure didn't work. Laws only work if you follow them.
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u/GWindborn Leftwing 20h ago
As I said in another response, gun control is by definition more than just laws. It's controlling access to guns. Locks, safes, etc. Irresponsible gun ownership is a problem too. Had this gun been properly stored a teenager wouldn't have been able to get to it.
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u/GreatSoulLord Center-right Conservative 19h ago
I think that's a pretty weak argument and could be stretched to include almost anything that can be used as a weapon. At some point we're going to have to start recognizing the human element of these events.
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u/Specific_Praline_362 Center-left 15h ago
Lots of things can be used as a weapon but few are as quickly and easily lethal as a firearm. Yeah a teen could steal a steak knife from mom's kitchen if you lock the guns away, but I think we all know which one is generally going to result in more fatalities.
Teens should not have unsupervised access to guns period. Mom and dad can take it out of the safe when they take their kid hunting or to the gun range and then lock it away when they return.
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u/jbondhus Independent 18h ago
What do you mean by that about the human element? What do you think the solution is? Because I've seen conservatives mention mental health and then refuse to fund it for years. It feels to me like mental health is just a way to say "keep your hands off my guns".
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u/GWindborn Leftwing 19h ago
The difference in guns is range and destructive power and lack of real skill required. You can't accomplish that with a knife or bat or something.
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u/FUVBagholder Independent 1d ago
There's a law that would have prevented his mom having a pump action shotgun?
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u/GWindborn Leftwing 1d ago
Didn't say there was?
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u/FUVBagholder Independent 1d ago
You said there could be such a law that would have prevented his mom's pump action shotgun from entering his possession though. What kind of law achieves that?
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u/GWindborn Leftwing 1d ago
I never said law. Proper storage practices like a gun safe or lock could have prevented a teen from getting their hands on it.
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u/FUVBagholder Independent 1d ago
Ah, so his mom was negligent. Now laws would do the post-facto work of exacting retribution. What's her penalty that would have prevented the bad storage? Do we know it was acquired because of unlawful storage? $500 fine? 4 counts of first degree murder, even more counts attempted murder?
Edit: To clarify, I think saying gun control could have prevented it implies law
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u/Specific_Praline_362 Center-left 15h ago
Yes, mom was negligent. I'm not sure what I think should happen to her or what the laws should be. That's why people who are smarter than me and more knowledgeable about the statistics and studies behind it, the laws, etc should sit down and work it out. But our politicians don't want to have the conversation because one side says "they want to take our guns!" and the other says "they don't care about dead kids!" so no one is coming to the table in good faith, or those who do are still scared of the optics to their party and voters.
"Let's do what we can to reduce school shootings" shouldn't be a partisan issue. The suggested solutions might be, but that's why we need lawmakers who can sit down and talk about these things and try to figure it out.
Of course, I'm of the possibly naive belief that we ARE all more similar than different as Americans and that the answers to most things are probably somewhere in the middle, but that ship has sailed and sunk now so compromises and working together on solutions to think is practically impossible. Unfortunately for all of us
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u/GWindborn Leftwing 1d ago
What are you looking for here? I'm not a local investigator, nor am I a politician or lawmaker, I'm just some asshole on Reddit. Gun control can just mean controlling access to guns.
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u/EddieDantes22 Conservative 1d ago
This is the problem with the debate. Anyone who gets shot is a person too many in the minds of people who think you can gun grab and nobody will get shot. More security? Armed teachers? Doesn't matter, gun control would mean no shootings at all.
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u/Specific_Praline_362 Center-left 15h ago
I don't think most liberals want to literally take everyone's guns. There are some extremists out there but I don't think that is a widespread belief
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u/Commissioner_Boredom Independent 1d ago
Trump's speeches are just...cringey. It's like Grandpa had a little too much and started rambling through dinner.
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u/Suspicious_Way2424 Rightwing 1d ago
I mentioned on a past general chat that I applied for ERO because I was curious about the hiring process. Received a tentative offer for GS-1801 deportation officer GL-5 step one with my local field office. Looks like the PFT is the next phase if the applicant accepts the offer.
I also have a pending applications for GS-1801 Federal Air Marshal SV-G grade and GS-1801 NCIS Investigative Support Specialist GS-7.
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u/CanadaYankee Center-left 1d ago
So apparently Laura Loomer is pitching herself as the next White House Press Secretary: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/6155131-laura-loomer-katie-zacharia-white-house-press-secretary/
Can you just imagine?
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u/Denisnevsky Centrist Democrat 1d ago
Unironically an improvement. Loomer is a crank, but she publicly apologized for her Anti-Ukraine views in what seemed to be a pretty sincere tone (she went to Ukraine herself and saw the war first hand). That's character growth you don't see in Groypers.
If it was a real job, no way, but Press Secretary is fine.
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u/Longjumping_Map_4670 Center-left 1d ago
God the content if this happened would be an absolute gift for Dems
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u/princesspooball Independent 19h ago
please tell me more, I dont know much about her
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u/Specific_Praline_362 Center-left 15h ago
Oooh boy. Are you bored today? This is a great rabbit hole for you to fall down if you are.
She is very openly Islamophobic and racist, and I don't mean this in the "Democrats call everyone racist and Islamophobic" way, more in the "she said the white house would smell like curry if Harris won" and "she types in exaggerated ebonics when speaking to or about black judges and politicians on Twitter" way.
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u/princesspooball Independent 14h ago
OMG
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u/Specific_Praline_362 Center-left 14h ago
Oh girl it's like comically bad. It's the kind of bad where even the guy who hasn't talked to his daughter in 20 years because she married a black guy would cringe at the fact she said some of this stuff in public. The idea of her being press secretary isn't even something The Onion could dream up. If it happens, it is going to be hilarious.
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u/Menace117 MAGA Liberal 1d ago edited 1d ago
Is she the one who did the Nazi salute at that one convention?
Edit: nope different Laura. Laura ingraham
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 1d ago
The democrats certainly have some interesting Senate candidates this year. Now the socialist in FL, Angie Nixon, claims she can’t be completely for abolishing prisons because she wants to arrest and imprison her Republican opponent?
Where do they find these people?
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 13h ago
We try our very best, thanks for the compliment.
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative 13h ago
There’s a democrat party in Lithuania?
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left 13h ago
We have Democrats "For Lithuania" (Demokratai "Vardan Lietuvos") who have a little over 10% of the seats.
Though in all seriousness by "us" I was refering to the left of center side of the political spectrum and not American democrats.
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