Arch Manning and Bryce Underwood are making a strong case for NIL refund policies

[u/Acceptable_Paint_455]

Arch Manning just lost to Florida after a late strip-sack, and Bryce Underwood has 5 TDs and 4 INTs through five games while Michigan sits 17th out of 18 Big Ten teams in scoring offense.

Two of the most hyped QB recruits in recent memory, with millions in NIL money attached to their names.
At this point, the best players on both their teams might be their agents.

[u/jamiebond]

I mean you could just structure NIL deals with performance bonuses being a large portion of it. Professional leagues often do this. As do coaching contracts.

[u/GMM85 → u/jamiebond]

NIL can’t legally have performance bonuses according to the NCAA until someone wins a lawsuit

[u/laprasrules → u/GMM85]

Because NIL isn't paying them to play football. Under NIL they are paid to be a spokesperson (name/image/likeness) for something.

[u/JagMehof → u/laprasrules]

Coach: "You are not going to record this Coke ad unless you throw 3 passing touchdowns and 250+ yards in the next game"

[u/UncleFlip → u/JagMehof]

🤔

[u/carguymt → u/JagMehof]

Planting trees is more lucrative than Coke ads

[u/acekingoffsuit → u/carguymt]

Just one tree...

[u/mbmiller47 → u/GMM85]

Billable hours you say?

[u/thehildabeast → u/GMM85]

lol yeah sure

[u/ApprehensiveEbb592 → u/GMM85]

Since NIL is a fictional scam dreamt up by the NCAA, it seems that they can change the rules anytime they want.

[u/hwf0712 → u/ApprehensiveEbb592]

NIL is very much not a fictional scam invented by the NCAA.

A) Its established

B) It was thought up by the courts more than anything

C) Ostensibly amateur athletes being paid for sham promotional deals is a tale as old as time

[u/acekingoffsuit → u/jamiebond]

I do not believe you legally can under current rules/laws.

[u/hwf0712 → u/acekingoffsuit]

Correct, because that'd be paying for play, and not simply buying an endorsement based off of who you are.

[u/SparkMaster360 → u/jamiebond]

The problem is recruits have all of the leverage. If you won’t offer them guarantees someone else will

[u/jamiebond → u/SparkMaster360]

Given the right circumstances I’d be willing to offer someone a lot more in incentives than anyone would offer them in guarantees. And idk college players have big egos they might see those incentives as basically being guarantees

[u/yabs → u/SparkMaster360]

I'm just rooting for people to get burned and waste money. The whole thing is absurd.

[u/RightSpread2903 → u/SparkMaster360]

This is a good thing btw. They’re the labor.

[u/GrudenLovesSlurs → u/jamiebond]

It’s inevitable this comes. Boosters aren’t going to pay $30M a year forever for ass play

[u/svh01973 → u/GrudenLovesSlurs]

Who's your ass play man? 

[u/GrudenLovesSlurs → u/svh01973]

I could’ve uh worded that better

[u/BillPaxton4eva → u/GrudenLovesSlurs]

Nope. That was literally perfect.

[u/Fedoras-Forever-Mom → u/GrudenLovesSlurs]

Some will pay extra for that

[u/monkakappa → u/GrudenLovesSlurs]

It’s just going to turn into more freshman going to lower conferences and transferring once proven. NCAA economics is just going to make a league 2 by accident.

[u/hwf0712 → u/GrudenLovesSlurs]

The thing is there's over 130 FBS teams, and like half of them are P4. You just need a handful of rich boosters getting bored off-and-on to keep some of these things up.

[u/Flimsy_System_1868 → u/GrudenLovesSlurs]

Not even if they tickle the taint?

[u/YoungKeys → u/jamiebond]

Not really, those offers wouldn’t be competitive against guaranteed NIL offers. Why would a top recruit choose non-guaranteed money over guaranteed money?

[u/Ryan1869 → u/jamiebond]

The way it’s going I wonder how long until they tie up a bunch of the NIl money in a no transfer clause

[u/RussiniTouchedMe → u/jamiebond]

Why would a recruit sign that?

[u/MaxMSE]

The initial NIL market was completely irrational. It's not the players' fault that people gave them too much money, that's just what happens when people with money don't think very hard.

Will the market become rational? No. Because spending a bunch of money on college football players is pretty much irrational by definition. Will it get more rational? Maybe.

[u/awsaffaswa → u/MaxMSE]

Yeah, this has always been the answer to the “when will NIL spending slow down” question. But I think it needs to happen 5-10 more times at minimum. As we see every time a scandal cover-up gets exposed, everyone thinks they’re different from all the suckers who got busted.

[u/CertainCanary1588]

Blame the schools who gave it to them. Underwood is actively losing Michigan games so who cares. Let the free markets work

[u/Set-Admirable → u/CertainCanary1588]

I'm all for paying players, but these coaches need to learn that a talented 17- or 18-year-old probably isn't worth blowing a team's NIL budget on.

[u/tlopez14 → u/Set-Admirable]

Yah I don’t know why top schools wouldn’t just go pluck a Darius Mensah type of guy instead of rolling the dice on a high school kid. I think top recruits will have to start setting for less money or going to tier 2 schools

[u/Adams5thaccount → u/tlopez14]

Then when they do prove themselves, most of the time theyll get plucked by the bigger budget schools. Sometimes they'll fall in love with the school and stay. Occasionally the smaller schools will use these moments as their opportunities to convince their respective boosters and departments that now is the time to go to the next level and they keep the players that way.

Sometimes those players who move to a bigger stage will be stars. Sometimes they'll still bust.

No matter what outcome happens though, there will always and forever be people who are using this topic as a thin disguise to bitch about players being paid at all.

[u/BigOlPass → u/Set-Admirable]

You say that but then someone gets the next Johnny Manziel, Trevor Lawrence or Jameis Winston

[u/dmazx → u/BigOlPass]

Letting someone get one of those players for 4 years while also sprinkling busts in there, that absolutely burn the program evens things out a bit. At some point, the donors will stop writing blank checks.

[u/Gazzarris → u/dmazx]

Troy Aikman complained that he wrote a big NIL check, and the guy who got the money transferred out after a season. He swears he won’t write another check.

[u/professorlust → u/Gazzarris]

In all fairness, it was “only” 100k. Like that’s definitely serious money but it’s also not starting QB money

[u/BigOlPass → u/dmazx]

You say that but I see no evidence that's true. Being a booster is already irrational

[u/Patrick2701 → u/BigOlPass]

Arch manning got paid because his last name is QB royalty

[u/anonymous_otter28 → u/Set-Admirable]

who are they spending it on then? a 30 yr old freshman?

[u/KennytheDoggy]

Counter point

Dave Portnoy got screwed

[u/GI_jim_bob → u/KennytheDoggy]

The words fuck Dave Portnoy get thrown around a lot lately.

It's because it's me I'm saying fuck Dave Portnoy.

Fuck Dave Portnoy.

[u/Insectshelf3 → u/GI_jim_bob]

damn that’s crazy

fuck dave portnoy

[u/Beer-survivalist → u/Insectshelf3]

Dude.

Fuck Dave Portnoy.

[u/Kalvitron → u/Beer-survivalist]

Couldn't have said it better myself, but I'll try.

Fuck Dave Portnoy.

[u/neovenator250 → u/Kalvitron]

Hell yeah.

Fuck Dave Portnoy.

Dave Portnoy is a worthless piece of shit.

[u/PrinceOfDaRodeo → u/neovenator250]

Counterpoint: Fuck Dave Portnoy.

[u/PrairiePilot → u/GI_jim_bob]

I legit have no clue why my phone opened to this comment, I just opened Reddit and this is what I got.

What are the odds that I also say fuck Dave Portnoy? Pretty fucking good, barstool can pound sand.

[u/Acceptable_Paint_455 → u/KennytheDoggy]

Portnoy somehow found a way to lose money on Michigan without even placing a bet.

[u/boardatwork1111 → u/KennytheDoggy]

IN THIS HOUSE BRYCE UNDERWOOD WAS A HERO, END OF STORY

[u/DillyDillySzn → u/KennytheDoggy]

Same for Larry Ellison

[u/Patrick2701 → u/DillyDillySzn]

Watching two rich asshole get some poetic justice is amazing thing. Larry Ellison also, looks like mads mikkelsen aka supervillain

[u/Beer-survivalist → u/Patrick2701]

I've always thought he looks like Mickey Rourke circa 2012.

...a guy at least partially famous for getting punched in the face and having bad plastic surgery.

[u/A_Rolling_Baneling → u/Patrick2701]

Disrespectful to Mads tbh

[u/PedroTheNoun → u/KennytheDoggy]

Sparks joy.

[u/NDinFL → u/KennytheDoggy]

It’s really hard to argue with this

[u/imbackyoudingdongs → u/KennytheDoggy]

As a Michigan fan, this is the one thing about the situation that makes me happy. Fuck thast dipshit.

[u/VolsTuba13 → u/KennytheDoggy]

Good

[u/anonymous_otter28 → u/KennytheDoggy]

Subscribe for more of this kind of news.

[u/cheerl231 → u/KennytheDoggy]

Larry Ellison paid for Bryce not Portnoy

[u/njk12 → u/cheerl231]

Oh darn, so it was a good person. No wait

[u/Tasty-Efficiency-373 → u/njk12]

Yea I’d much rather Ellison be spending his money on a terrible QB than weapons that kill children.

[u/ilikecakeandpie]

?????????????

Do you give money back to your job if you aren’t doing well?

[u/RootHogOrDieTrying → u/ilikecakeandpie]

Shush! Don't give them ideas.

[u/JBsportsandchess → u/ilikecakeandpie]

Likewise are schools going to start giving out retroactive NIL increases for great performance? No

At most you might see more performance-based stuff but I don't even think that is technically possible with the way NIL works.

[u/tree-hugger]

I don't think money should be taken from 18 year-olds because fully grown adult ADs spent it stupidly.

[u/Endgame60]

Arch is FAR better than Underwood

Arch at best has been decent (probably going to stay another year)

Edit: well underwood got benched…. So I guess it could be worse for arch

[u/MarkWithAnM7 → u/Endgame60]

Haslam still salivating to trade 3 number ones to move up and draft Arch so not all is lost.

[u/Endgame60 → u/MarkWithAnM7]

I don’t think arch is coming out this year

[u/MarkWithAnM7 → u/Endgame60]

Texas going to Quinn Ewers Arch and he’s going to transfer

[u/tabloid-tommy → u/Endgame60]

Yeah arch has arm talent but has poor decision making

[u/loofawah → u/tabloid-tommy]

Is it still arm talent when pressure frequently causes you to over or under throw your target? In a vacuum he has arm talent.

[u/tabloid-tommy → u/loofawah]

I’ve always considered arm talent to be velocity

[u/Arkehn → u/Endgame60]

Don't you put that evil on me

[u/RingProudly]

And give coaches an insurance policy?! Absolutely not. This would give an outsized benefit to schools with huge budgets and hold coaches less accountable for their coaching. Don't know if you actually meant this but if you did....hoooo boy is that a bad idea.

[u/magnoliaAveGooner]

Why? If you can steal millions from fucking idiots why not. Arch sucks and he isn’t the problem. Idiots with money always ruin everything.

[u/BrilliantArm5914 → u/magnoliaAveGooner]

good description of private equity

[u/margotsaidso → u/magnoliaAveGooner]

It's not just CFB that's getting enshittified, even the bagmen are getting enshittified

[u/aselinger → u/magnoliaAveGooner]

1000%

If rich old dudes want to throw money at kids playing a ball game, they take on the risk, and they have to live with the consequences.

[u/crowezr]

Refund? Not going to happen. What will change is less money for out of high school guys, except the can't miss dudes like Jeremiah Smith.

A QB shouldn't be getting big NIL money unless they're proven. Too big of a risk when you have to out up $30+ mil to field a competitive roster. Non-P2 and G6 teams will be the development teams when it comes to QBs moving forward for some.

[u/manabanana21 → u/crowezr]

I mean Arch and Underwood were both viewed as can’t miss guys. They were both undisputed 5 stars.

[u/IeatKfcAllDay → u/manabanana21]

Tbh arch’s 5 star never made sense except for his last name

At least Bryce’s tools were absolutely insane.

Highschool arch still had a noodle arm

[u/shrimpdads → u/IeatKfcAllDay]

Bro what are you talking about, the main thing about Arch (besides the name) is that he has elite tools. He's incredibly athletic and has a cannon arm, but he processes too slow and makes terrible decisions frequently.

[u/Key-Level-4072 → u/shrimpdads]

Being able to throw far and abandon a good pocket doesn’t exactly amount to “elite tools.”

Texas bought the brand without quality control testing.

[u/davy_p → u/crowezr]

Asking for refunds is insane. These are big boy contracts. I see this going towards more of a soccer model sans the freaks out of high school that are college ready. Everyone else should sign with a lower end P4 or a G6 team, play a year or two and prove your value then jump up.

What I hope happens is they add some sort of transfer fee but idk how that would work because the teams usually won’t hold contractual rights to the players unless they con a HS kid into signing a 4 year contract. But teams that are taking a chance on unproven players, developing them into proven talents, should be compensated for that.

[u/Juicethetangelo → u/crowezr]

I love that these NIL deals look like shit. Maybe the people who donated that cash will think twice next time and this nonsense will find a more realistic level.

The market needs a correction.

[u/Wise_Rip_1982 → u/Juicethetangelo]

Meh for the guy who donated for underwood, it's like you throwing out a McDonald's burger. The chance he was good was worth it. Sucked so just toss him aside like a shitty piece of food lol.

[u/KingofPro → u/crowezr]

“No guaranteed money” NCAA collusion

[u/Fedoras-Forever-Mom]

Promising large amounts of money to unproven HS players was always stupid

[u/ShootersShoot305]

Or maybe, just maybe, don’t offer millions of dollars to high schoolers

[u/No_Reputation7097]

Dave Portnoy deserves no refund. He deserves being banned from contributing to any NIL. He is a douche and those like him should not be giving influential money to programs.

[u/MarkWithAnM7 → u/No_Reputation7097]

God I hate agreeing with a Michigan fan but when you’re right, you’re right!

[u/mostdope28 → u/MarkWithAnM7]

Except they’re wrong. Portnoy said he didn’t pay for it when he flipped

[u/Pogball_so_hard → u/No_Reputation7097]

Wasn’t the Ellison contribution what pushed Bryce to flip? Though it would be funny if Michigan’s NIL fund just doesn’t want to acknowledge Portnoy’s role because he’s insufferable 

[u/No_Reputation7097 → u/Pogball_so_hard]

This. Portnoy was dumb (as per usual) and strutted that it was his cash that got Bryce, so Dave you want to talk the talk…time to cash in

[u/random_roller13]

Remember when high school players were getting millions from NBA teams via the draft? So many were high-price busts and eventually changes were made to the CBA. At some point there will be a player’s union and salary cap in college football. Those contributing big dollars for NIL want a return on investment. 

[u/Howry]

Add Dylan Raiola to that list please.

[u/madbadger44]

Nah, to hell with that. Programs shouldn’t get mulligans for poor scouting and development. Use your money wisely or deal with the consequences.

[u/audiotech14]

If a team wants to gamble a ton of NIL on a single player, I say let them. If it doesn’t work out, it puts them in a bind. We don’t need to help out Texas or Michigan here.

[u/newme02]

nah fuck that. if teams wanna splurge and get screwed they get screwed. refunds is crazy 😂

[u/Dunsmuir]

Just raise tuition on the kids who go to classes full time. It's too big to fail.

[u/Free-Eights]

I'd much rather get an OC refund. Jason Beck is absolutely stealing a living.

[u/msmith3525 → u/Free-Eights]

I would not be surprised if Underwood leaves and becomes a more than serviceable QB. He’s not good, but it doesn’t help that the OC and play calling are ass. A draw on 3rd and 9 on the opening drive told me how the game was going to go.

[u/OnMyNerves23]

I think everyone needs to take a step back and realize that 5-star busts are nothing new. They are just being paid now.

DJ Lagway, DJ Uiagalelei, Spencer Rattler, Jackson Arnold, Conner Weigman, and I could go on.

I’m not sticking up for Arch or Bryce. They are both ass and I’m a Texas fan. One of the worst things Texas did recently was win the recruiting battle for Arch and sending Quinn up the creek.

[u/yimc808]

Not going to happen because it's definitely not pay-for-play, remember? :)

Besides, there will always be some team with more money than sense that will just dump money on them up front.

[u/ColonelKetchup5698]

Why? That's like saying the NFL and NBA should get rid of the draft because of Jamarcus Russell and Kwame Brown.

[u/catdog-11]

Or stop giving kids millions of dollars before they’ve done anything.

[u/boardatwork1111]

Aint the players faults schools overpaid, no one forced them to drop 7 figure bags on kids who haven’t played a down of FBS football. Blame their scouting department/coaching staff for misevaluating their skills and failing to develop them

[u/zahemp]

You break it, you buy it. No refunds.

[u/YpsitheFlintsider]

That's not how this works lol. Maybe don't pay unproven players so much.

[u/rando5star]

If youre gonna say that, you would have to apply the same logic to coaches. There arent refunds on failed coaches so why should there be on players. We see plenty of those too, they just get a big buyout

[u/Jonathank92]

loser take. Every contract is a gamble. There is no such thing as guaranteed performance in sports.

[u/capamericapistons → u/Jonathank92]

Yeah wtf are we going to start doing refunds in the NFL now? 😂

[u/purplenyellowrose909 → u/capamericapistons]

Refund OP's salary when the company misses the quarter target

[u/osufeth24]

This is a reason I've appreciated OSUs approach so far. Outside of a few players (like Jeremiah) if they get into a bidding war they've generally backed off and used a lot of money to keep their own players from declaring for the NFL, or use it for transfers. I don't know many recruits outside a select few they've thrown massive bags toward.

[u/Thehomelessguy11]

Add Demond Williams in here too, please

[u/chrisncsu]

Can't tie NIL to performance, but I imagine year to year teams have outs out of any multi-year contract, and players probably don't.

Maybe teams should stop throwing giant bags at HS QBs?

[u/ekurisona]

keep that same energy for the next $50M coaching buyout lol

[u/gmr548]

Underwood is a lot more egregious. Not to defend Arch Manning’s play, but not only has he been better th Underwood, it’s also been widely reported that he didn’t even take NIL prior to being the starter and much of his current NIL income is from outside deals. He’s got a very expensive roster around him too, which he likely gave up some comp for.

All that to say, I’m not sure how much Texas has committed to him directly but I don’t think it would be near top of market. He is not a normal recruit from a normal financial background, either.

[u/fadingthought]

NIL are for name, imagine, and likeness. What is the case to refund them? Are they failing to show for their events?

[u/VirtualChaos613]

That’s not how it works. NFL players don’t get refunds either.

Nonsensical post.

[u/mlspdx → u/VirtualChaos613]

This was my thought too. You spend too much on a player, whoops that’s on you

[u/AmidoBlack]

Crazy timing for this post, Underwood just got benched lmao

[u/dafastestogre]

Nope, this is what people wanted. I want to see this be a double-edged sword.

I want to see teams overspend and make themselves question if it's worth it.

Players deserve to be compensated but I also want to see the market self-regulate a bit.

[u/notaquarterback]

Only after we make coaches and ADs and college presidents have them! Thrilled they got paid, NCAA could have avoided this decades ago!

[u/_the_Hen_]

Had they called them employees and been reasonable they probably would’ve gotten a reasonable system at a fraction of the price.

[u/FDTerritory]

I'm amazed that schools don't treat it like actual employment...if you get dropped during the season, you're fired and you don't make any more money.

[u/ReasonableSide6520 → u/FDTerritory]

That would he admitting they are employees

[u/a_large_plant → u/ReasonableSide6520]

Umm excuse me we are paying for their name, image, and likeness, not their playing ability

[u/PlainJaneGum → u/a_large_plant]

That’s actually funny and I guess, true, frankly.

[u/theillestnino → u/FDTerritory]

Technically, players are not getting paid to play. They're only getting paid for their name image and likeness. Therefore, they cannot be penalized for poor performance.

[u/motomami24 → u/theillestnino]

Sure you could - put performance incentives in NIL contracts on the basis that their name image and likeness become less valuable

Termination of contract for player event of default (I.e, if you’re dropped from the team)

[u/AppropriateBank1 → u/motomami24]

Illegal

[u/bb0110 → u/FDTerritory]

They aren’t employed though. That is kind of the whole thing.

[u/Sea_List_8480 → u/bb0110]

I love this for the schools. The worst of all worlds with their ridiculous notion of ‘student-athletes’ and not employees. All fruit from the poison tree of ‘Amateurism’.

[u/Kundrew1 → u/FDTerritory]

Well not if you have a contract like any other sport.

[u/gland87 → u/FDTerritory]

Then you’d have to admit they’re employees and they’d have more protections. Can’t have all the downsides without zero upside

[u/Marv18GOAT → u/FDTerritory]

Then they’d simply negotiate guarantees lol

[u/bonixlover10 → u/FDTerritory]

That’s not how sports contracts work

[u/lobthelawbomb → u/FDTerritory]

You’re amazed that sports contracts work like sports contracts? This is how it works in all sports.

[u/ThatPlayWasAwful → u/FDTerritory]

treat it like actual employment

They have spent almost a century bending over backwards to not treat it like employment. If you're amazed by that you're just not paying attention.

With regards to nil money specifically the players are the ones with the power in this situation. If somebody tries to say the money isn't guaranteed the players can and should just go somewhere where the money will be guaranteed.

[u/Lumpy-Daikon-4584 → u/ThatPlayWasAwful]

Yeah. Everyone complaining about the current situation and blaming the players needs to understand what’s going on. Just make them employees.

[u/bleh-apathetic → u/FDTerritory]

This works the same as contract labor, it's not W2 labor.

[u/CuckModerator69420 → u/FDTerritory]

Where have you worked that the dead weight was immediately fired? Lol

[u/ChepaukPitch → u/FDTerritory]

Do the coaches stop making money when they get fired? I think players would ask for similar contracts.

[u/Imnotsureanymore8]

Do you give back some of your wages when you fuck up at Wendy's?

[u/fakethefame → u/Imnotsureanymore8]

Your burger, m’lady

[u/dublin87]

No refunds. If you’re dumb enough to give millions to an unproven 18 year old to play sports you deserve to lose your money.

[u/BlueOmicronpersei8]

So the coaches have to be bought out and the players lose money? Yeah no, learn to not waste money.

[u/Hopsblues]

Free market economy, no regulations, a capitalists dream...funny how some folks don't like it....

[u/mr_antman85]

Honestly what made me question it was when I was watching a Colorado game and one of the announcers named a player on the other team and said something like, "The transfer from Indiana that won a championship last year..."

I was like, how do you transfer AFTER you just won? It's not even a sport anymore. It just the highest bidder. I'm all for paying these kids, they should get compensated. I don't know, it needs to be some kind of guardrails.

I'm just a fair-weather fan, so my opinion means nothing.

[u/dmazx → u/mr_antman85]

From my recollection, NIL was discussed as a way to allow athletes to sell stuff, get sponsorships, appear in commercials for products, overruling the previously strict amateurism rules. Essentially allowing athletes to have rights that other students would have had. Now that it has turned into what it is now, we might as well go all the way to contracts. If amateurism doesn’t matter, at least make the player commit to a team. Four-year contracts that can include buyout provisions so if you transfer, you have to pay some fee to the school that you used as a launching pad.

[u/MightySwordfish1 → u/dmazx]

It's not necessarily the NIL that is so crazy, it's the unlimited transfers that are killing college sports. 

[u/KCShadows838 → u/mr_antman85]

Sometimes guys transfer from better teams because they can get more playing time on a bad team 

[u/mr_antman85 → u/KCShadows838]

There's definitely nuances to it. I will agree there.

That's why I made sure to say that I'm a fair-weather fan. So I don't keep 100% track of these players and things like that.

I still do feel that some guardrails need to be implemented. Overall the NIL has made it where more teams can be competitive, so it's a good thing but can be improved.

[u/KingofPro → u/mr_antman85]

That’s the way jobs are……I don’t blame any employee.

[u/Noy_Telinu]

More like Performance bonuses

[u/AlCapone111]

Can't get a refund on expired goods.

[u/HermitageHermit]

They just need to add an “Ass” clause.

[u/StreetReporter]

DJU was the first player to appear in Fansville

[u/Ok-Throat-1549]

Should always have been a cap that only goes up based on being a sophomore, junior or senior. No reason a freshman with no experience should be getting millions.

[u/dedwards024]

Dodgers and Yankees both lost this year too

[u/Careless_General8010]

Demond's $4 million too 🤮

[u/SoloDolo86]

High school NIL is going to plummet in the next few years

Why would you waste so much cash on an unproven 18 yr old instead of proven 20-21 yr olds?

[u/SanBurqueno92]

With that logic, regular people get refunds for their bad investments as well.

NIL boosters who bet the farm on hype don't deserve to have their money protected anymore than anyone else. If a prospect doesn't work out, too bad. Do better due diligence next time, invest less, wait until someone actually proves themselves, don't expect success because someone has a famous last name.

[u/MocoMojo]

Caveat emptor

[u/86lp]

I want a refund on the two brain cells I lost considering this premise.

[u/Shamr0k]

Demond Williams is pocketing 75k a day while he recovers from getting sacked every play, throwing inaccurate passes and having sore ribs..

[u/cnapp]

Arch isn't making much on NIL from Texas

Most of his is from legit national brand endorsements like Warby Parker and Panini

[u/Dry_Albatross5298 → u/cnapp]

this cracks me up "hey you know if Archie M is using these glasses to look at those cards well then imma do that too"

[u/Turbulent_End_6887 → u/Dry_Albatross5298]

Makes you want to buy a pair, huh?

[u/AdamOnFirst]

They’re making a strong case for good scouting. Period.

[u/Lane-Kiffin]

College football fans are the “New Jerseyans can’t pump their own gas” of the sports world. Every time there is a discussion about letting people pump their own gas in New Jersey, they come up with all sorts of reasons and excuses for why it can’t be done. While 48 other states just do it no problem.

Other sports have been paying players. Other sports have given huge contracts to players who have underwhelmed, believe it or not. This is not a new thing.

(The pumping gas analogy also applies to playoffs, but that’s a different discussion)

[u/RobbyRivers]

they are being paid for their "Name, Image, or Likeness" (literaly the acronym NIL, in case anyone was unaware) or at least they are on paper. So, no, they wont be adding a performance component to those contracts. If they could, they wouldn't bother with the pretense.

[u/ChemG8r]

5 touchdowns and 4 interceptions is diabolical for a player of his supposed caliber.

This hurts Michigan’s future NIL investments tbh. Refunds won’t happen, but it’s hard to believe there won’t be people very gun-shy.

[u/JustAnotherRye89]

I'm perfectly okay with universities wasting their money to make mistakes like this. You think they don't have access to lawyers and financial analysts to tell them to not do this with their money.

[u/Beginning-Smell9890 → u/JustAnotherRye89]

I'm ok with boosters wasting money like this. As soon as it imperils any part of a school's academic mission, I'm out

[u/TypicallyDone12]

That's never going to happen.

But it goes to show the power dynamic isnt balanced.

Schools can't revoke scholarships for poor play. NIL deals are set. But a player can transfer whenever they want.

I'm all for NIL and a transfer policy but, as is, it's not good for the sport.

If schools can revoke NIL deals, it will make everything more messy. Schools need to be held accountable for the decisions they make.

[u/Dr_thri11]

So coaches get $50 million+ buyouts but players have to give their money back?

[u/MarkWithAnM7]

Texas has made a killing on those Arch jerseys so it’s not a total loss.

[u/Tommybrady20]

They’re for sure gonna try and structure contracts with outs but the leverage is still in the hands of the 5 star recruit.

There will always be someone desperate enough to hand out a fully guaranteed contract

Only hope is federal legislature that isn’t coming and even if it does they’ll find stupid state judges and lawyers to sue

[u/Nicfromnewgirl]

Demond Williams would like a word

[u/mukduk1994]

Nah, if these dumbass boosters are gonna keep shelling out and wasting their money, they deserve whatever the fuck they get

[u/turtleviking]

You break it you bought it

[u/Crying_in_99Ranch]

We know it'll be over for Arch when Warby Parker drops him

[u/ApprehensiveEbb592]

What happens when a college player who’s been given $1 million in NIL gets hurt and can’t play for a month? Does he still keep that money?

[u/HuskerGamer402]

It’s almost like schools are bad at financial decisions and choose to negotiate with unregulated agents. Crazy that paying someone $5 million at the age of 18-19 didn’t pan out.

[u/smellmyfingerplz]

I mean isn’t it also play calling and coaching? Yeah they have incredible natural talent but if the play calls aren’t tailored to their skill that plays a factor. Say what you will about coach brisket but me makes an offense that compliments whoever his qb is

[u/Dear-Pickle-2200]

Sure when players who are unpaid or underpaid can start demanding more money mid season. Grow up

[u/sfitz0076]

This is what happens when these boosters want to play GM. Sometimes a player doesn't work out and you have to eat that money.

[u/DFWTooThrowed]

Arch didn’t get NIL out of high school.

He got his NIL deals later. His family made it a big deal that he wasn’t getting NIL as a freshman.

[u/Cheap-Kiwi-1312]

Don't leave out or boy demond williams. We want a refund and for him to never play for us again.

[u/Advanced-Blackberry]

18 big ten teams just sounds fucked up 

[u/SaulTNNutz]

Don't forget about Demond Williams

[u/Lost_Rolls_]

Nah, I think the backers should be forced to double down. Make Ellison waste more money

[u/Difficult-Meat2612]

Put marcel reed in the conversation too

[u/GoRangers5]

Or just no NIL for freshman, let em get the two grand stipend like they used to.

[u/Undella_Town]

peyton manning wouldn't look good under sark much less arch, dudes such a dog shit head coach idk how people aren't marching in austin for him to get fired

[u/Adams5thaccount]

Is OP the same person whos been writing the series of pocket watching posts about these two or is it spreading?