r/CaptainAmerica • u/Acrobatic_Yoghurt268 • 4d ago
Follow-up question from my recent post, if Captain America would kill Joker why hasn't he killed Red Skull?
2nd image is the OG post
I feel like Red Skull is arguably worse than The Joker and should be killed. (I know he's currently dead atm with Mephisto)
I feel like another reason why Red Skull stays alive is the same reason why Joker stays alive. Sales.
Also, please correct me if I'm wrong(as in, if he has killed Red Skull)
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u/ReliquaryofSin 4d ago
Red Skull is currently dead and in hell in the ongoing Chip Zdarsky Captain America run
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u/ContrarianRPG 4d ago
He has killed the Red Skull. Nazi bastard won't stay dead, which might just be another metaphor for the state of modern America, actually.
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u/Buckhead25 4d ago
incase you havent notice cap has both attempted and successfully killed red skull before. it just doesnt stick. hell the first time he came back in a clone of steve.
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u/StoneGoldX 4d ago
Could you tell me the issue? Because I can tell you the issues where he didn't kill him. Like Cap 300. Very specifically did not kill him there.
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u/EAinCA 3d ago
Didn't NEED to kill him there. Nature was doing it already and in fact, did.
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u/StoneGoldX 3d ago
For like 25 issue.
Point being, Skull was begging for Cap to kill him. Tortured all his friends. Poisoned him. Still wouldn't.
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u/Horror_Ad7540 4d ago
I've lost count on the number of times Red Skull has died. It doesn't even slow him down.
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u/Veritaslover 4d ago
Sales is definitely part of it but it's more than that.
Some people even writers tend to confuse cap and batman and say cap has a hard code against killing (we see him shooting Nazis all the damn time ) . Other times he doesn't. Sometimes the red skull has super soldier powers some times not.
Sometimes cap has killed the red skull or watched him die.
I just depends. I like a cap who shoots Nazis myself.
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u/Dapper-Suspect-6981 4d ago
I think you're right Cap's closer to Wonder Woman than Bruce or Clark. He's going to try his hardest to rehabilitate you, but if he has to kick you in front of a train to save someone from you he will.
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u/Veritaslover 4d ago
I just think it kinda gets to the core of who he is.
Cap is a man of action a man who effectively said during a time when it was extremely unpopular in America to say this that it was every Americans duty to not just support the allies via lend lease but to put actual boots on the ground and fight shoulder to shoulder. You don't push for America to go to war and not expect to do some killing and lose some friends.
So why walk him back? Cap to me is a man of principles and who stands on business about those principles all the way come hell or high water that's what I like about him.
Id rather cap had a point or political stance that he later had to apologize for because it was wrong than the milquetoast shit we get when he's written poorly.
Codes against killing unless your Batman or have some compelling reason/argument are milquetoast imo. Generically giving that to every superhero is just like corporate hand wringing sanitization. Because if your hero kills people your making a statement not just that x was bad but that Y deserved to die for it.
But id agree cap and Diana are probably more similar than cap and any other justice league comparison.
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u/Dry_Branch_5775 4d ago
Cap is a soldier and knows that a "no kill rule" is a child's delusion. He wouldn't kill anyone intentionally, especially when sparring with one of his regular opponents like Zemo or Batroc, who's abilities he is very familiar with. But war is unpredictable, and when up against unknown opponents, Cap isnt going to pull his punches. If you are a Hydra agent fighting Cap on the deck of the Helicarrier, and you get knocked off by his shield...well, that's on you buddy. You should have thought twice about why you were going up against.
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u/Angelic_warrior619 4d ago
What's the point of having a hero like Cap if he doesn't have a constantly recurring bad guy that is the true opposite of him, it's the same as Batman, yeah he has other villains he fights but deep down some of the best work is what's done with joker.
Same principle with captain America, his war with red skull spans lifetimes because they're that good to watch against each other
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u/EAinCA 3d ago
I would argue that Zemo is better to watch because he's not pure blinding evil.
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u/Angelic_warrior619 3d ago
Oooo good shout with zemo, I think zemo is a good introductory villain for new readers to Captain America.
As you said he isn't pure blinding evil and atrocity like what red skull is, which means you get a good back and forth between them and then you can move onto the chaos and dark evil that is Cap Vs Red Skull
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u/Burt_McCheeks 4d ago
I know a lot of people are talking about Cap killing villains and shooting Nazis, but isn’t that just specifically in the context of war?
I’m sure he’s kicked some guys off the top of a train or whatever, and a reasonable person might say “oh if you hit a guy in the neck with that shield he’s definitely dead”, but that’s kind of par for the course with comics and a far cry from the idea that Cap kills enemies consistently, at least since being unfrozen.
Also, this is a legitimate question, I’m not trying to gotcha anyone, just to get ahead of any comic nerds salivating at the idea of an argument with a stranger lol
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u/jameszenpaladin011- 4d ago
I feel like Cap has two modes. Hero mode and War mode.
In war mode he is a soldier first and does what it takes with the specific legal authority of the government and the Geneva convention and what not.
But when he's just a vigilante he does his best to use the minimum nessicary force to apprehend the opponent.
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u/Burt_McCheeks 4d ago
I could see that. If that’s the case, Cap hasn’t been a soldier at war since 1945, so aside from a few specific instances under special circumstances, he hasn’t killed villains consistently in his career as a superhero since being found and unfrozen by the Avengers, which is always what I assumed.
That said, while I assumed it, I always like to make sure I’m not confusing my head canon for what’s actually supported by the comics lol thanks for the reply!
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u/bjh1983 3d ago
He beheaded Baron Blood with his shield. Cap doesn't WANT to kill. He wants to take every action necessary to avoid killing. But he's seen the realities of war and knows that sometimes, when pushed to the breaking point, it's kill or watch innocents be killed.
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u/Burt_McCheeks 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah sure, he was a soldier in World War II, he definitely killed people. I’m only saying I don’t think that really extends past his being unfrozen, with maybe a few exceptions though I can’t think of many, that’s why I made the comment. And that makes sense, because a soldier killing someone in the context of war is a very different situation than a vigilante in circus tights murdering a person outside the constraints of the law.
Also, beheading a vampire isn’t really murder. I seem to remember a scholar or gentleman of some notoriety once declaring it “open season on all suck heads”.
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u/Ill-Profession2972 4d ago
If I remember the movie correctly he did at at least indirectly kill him (heavily implied he was dead)
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u/Blackpanther22five 4d ago
He has left him for dead many times, but his faithful members bring him back to life after a few years
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u/JagPeror 4d ago
The original red skull basically died of old age, and Cap didn't kill him because Red Skull was baiting him for it. Skull was going to die anyways, and ended up being tossed into a pyre by his own daughter.
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u/M0ebius_1 4d ago
He tries to kill the Red Skull like twice a month. The dude always survives or comes back to life through some bullshit.
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u/Inevitable-Shop-848 4d ago
Red Skull is a Captain America villain. Joker isn't. Why would he care if a rival company villain dies?
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u/mrcrazymexican 4d ago
I've never seen it in the 616. But I've seen the him coming back from a death. I'm pretty sure Cap has killed him.
I should really catch up on when Cap has killed him.
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u/Legomaniac91 3d ago
He's tried, but Skull is a stubborn bastard with numerous doubles and contingencies. He always seems to stick around like a bad fart.
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u/whatleadmehere 3d ago
Ok, lemme explain. Red Skull is to Captain America and Joker is to Batman. They both were originally meant to be killed, one-off villains, but something struck a chord with the readers. For red Skull, it was the obvious America v. Nazism narrative, and for batman it's the funny twist of something innocent turned evil. Before clowns became the symbol of true evolution and despair.
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u/LengthinessLarge1285 3d ago
Hydra and the Nazis have cloned Red Skull, that how they get to bring Red back... Joker would get killed by Cap but how would the writers bring him back
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u/jimmyb0i820 3d ago
Cap has killed red skull so many times. Red Skull always manages to pull some bullshit out of his ass to say "ah, you merely killed an artificial construct"
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u/EggFrequent9202 3d ago
Red skull is one slimy motherfugger who just escapes every time, I also think cap would see everyone as having to serve there lawful punishment, or to be reformed. death is a last resort for cap
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u/supermonistic 3d ago
It’s definitely not for lack of trying and Skull doesn’t have any special relationship with Cap that would prevent it. Skull is just remarkably crafty
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u/Simple_Nobody1228 3d ago
He has killed him, Red Skull has died several times and comes back through various means.
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u/No-Department1194 3d ago
What would it matter? Comics revives everyone, so even if he did, how long until he came back?
So killing is more of a moral thing. As for losing his temper or such, I honestly don’t know.
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u/kidian_tecun 1d ago
Cap isnt batman he will smoke a fool! He snappped a terrorist neck on live tv.
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u/HimuraQ1 4d ago
What makes you think he hasn't killed Red Skull multiple times? Are you like... new to comics?
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u/StoneGoldX 4d ago
Are you? Because I can tell you the times he specifically didn't kill Skull, like in DeMatties' story. Bucky has killed him. Sharon Carter has. Not Steve.
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u/Far-Difficulty8854 4d ago
He has
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u/StoneGoldX 4d ago
He hasn't.
Killed by a bomb.
Died of old age when he couldn't bait Cap into killing him.
Killed by Cosmic Cube.
Killed by Bucky.
Killed by Sharon Carter.
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u/hypercombofinish 4d ago
He both has attempted, done so and attempted to do so