Help with when to use 的 / de

[u/unseasonedunflavored]

hi everyone!
i’m fairly new to learning mandarin and right now i’m exclusively using HelloChinese. this might be stupid but i really don’t understand the difference between using 的 and not using it. any help is appreciated thank you so much 谢谢🙏🏻

[u/brjosk]

(disclaimer: I am not fluent at all, but I did take a few years of Mandarin in high school)

I was taught that 的 signifies possession (like “hers” or “yours” or “Tim’s”)

I was also taught that it is sometimes omitted when speaking about someone close to you, like family members - “我爸爸” (but “我的爸爸” is also correct)

[u/K4l3lK3nt → u/brjosk]

I was learning using Hello Chinese and I feel like it might have said this in one of the teacher talks!

[u/unseasonedunflavored → u/K4l3lK3nt]

i’ll keep my eyes open!! thank you🙏🏻

[u/lizzysbennet → u/unseasonedunflavored]

Check the Unit 3 grammar collection. It shows more about expressing possession using “de”.

Whenever you get the little purple cards pop up on the bottom left of a new word, I’ve found it is always a new grammar rule explaining how to use the character within the sentences. It’s super helpful to review when it pops up otherwise it can get confusing not knowing when or how to use the new character you’re learning as opposed to normal word characters.

[u/unseasonedunflavored → u/brjosk]

okay so it seems like there are some rules for with whom or what you can use it with. thank you!

[u/lazier_garlic → u/unseasonedunflavored]

It's less likely to use it with family members (such as 我爸爸妈妈) and sometimes the explanation given is that you cannot be alienated or separated from them, unlike an inanimate object (我的手机) or a more conditional relationship.

It's not really a hard and fast rule. You can absolutely use 的 with family relations and it's not rude or anything. But most Mandarin speakers drop it so they teach that right away so that you're used to it. And it can be dropped in other circumstances too.

我的 means "my" or "mine" (it's "mine" when it's said by itself: 谁掉的钱包？那个钱包是我的。) but unlike English, it's not a grammatical error to use 我 alone as a modifier meaning "my". This can take some getting used to.

在他身边 or 在他的身边 by his side ~ the first one sounds better to me

however 我的身份 or 我身份 ~ I prefer the first one here just slightly. It means literally "my identity" or even more literally body-portion, like the old-fashioned English term "my portion" or lot in life; more idiomatically it means "who I am", my role or status in society.

You could said 他 can't be alienated from 身（身体）thus no 的, where as the 身 in 身份 is an inextricable part of a compound noun, and the noun semantically is something that can change--your status can change.

I wouldn't overthink it. While history shows us that the 的 is a late addition in the history of Mandarin, if it's easier, you can think of the basic form being pronoun+的 for possessive and some forms simply elide or drop the 的 since it's just a particle and those get de-stressed and dropped in all languages.

Also keep in mind the other loose "rule" - a Mandarin sentence abhors too many 的, especially in written form. Even the spoken language tends to not structure things that way. The only time you get it naturally is for comedic effect, like someone giving a "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon" account of how they came by a piece of information.

[u/pigvwu → u/unseasonedunflavored]

I'd say that in your examples, there's not really a reason why it was used in the first one and not the second one. In both cases you could either use 的 or not use it depending on preference.

I'd say for writing (like in school or other more formal situations) you should always use 的, and for informal or spoken scenarios you can skip it.

[u/Previous-Ad7618 → u/brjosk]

Updooting this answer. Good explanation

[u/Giffre → u/brjosk]

If you want to be really really technical here, omitting the 的 makes it more causal. So from most to least formal: 我的父亲 我的爸爸 我爸爸 我爸 爸 Bà ba

[u/Rihpog → u/brjosk]

Chinese are saying “我爸” more which means “my Dad” in the real life, “我爸爸” is more close to the meaning of “My Daddy” that kids are likely to use

[u/Individual_Net4483]

it's all laugh and giggles until you meet the 的得地

[u/Affectionate_Air8310 → u/Individual_Net4483]

What I know is: 的 modifies noun (modifier + 的 + noun) 得 modifies verb (verb + 得 + modifier) 地 modifies verb (modifier + 地 + verb) 灰色的鞋子 写得很漂亮 快速得吃饭

[u/Taryn-Kim]

Frankly speaking, in that sentence, you can use 的 or not, both works in mandarin. I know it’s hard to not think about grammar at the first stage of learning but mandarin doesn’t have too much grammar in short sentences, more about the meaning. Didn’t know if I say it correctly, it’s my first language so I’m thinking it in different ways maybe

[u/unseasonedunflavored → u/Taryn-Kim]

thank you! i was just so confused because in earlier lessons it was used and then it these ones now suddenly i don’t need it anymore? but it makes sense!

[u/UnexpectedOtter21]

So it means whatever becomes after 的 belongs to whatever comes before so 他的 would mean his because whatever comes after belongs to 他

[u/Mintyytea]

I think you can default to using 的de and hearing more mandarin will help you know when it’s “right” to skip it. Sometimes if it’s not common enough or specific enough, it sounds weird to not include the de. Like saying 我貓, that would feel weird to me cuz in English that would feel like “I cat”, it would “feel” not right.

I think in Mandarin as you keep learning though, there are a lot of compound words that people will just shorten and use. So sometimes for stuff like “my parents” it makes sense enough to shorten to 我媽, it doesnt feel like “I Mom”, it does feel like “My mom”, and actually, saying 我的媽媽 feels more formal, like if you’re explaining “This is my mother” and 我媽 to me can feel like “My Ma” or 我爸 “My Pops”, more colloquial.

It’s best to learn new nuance rules from seeing/hearing examples from media. Because when you see it enough, you’ll go, Okay, I guess that’s a thing, I saw them do it here and there. And until then you can just use the default rule you know

[u/Ambitious-Party9815]

In short: Use 的 for possession (my book), but skip it for types/categories (Chinese food). Also, skip it with short adjectives (good person), but use it with longer descriptive adjectives (pretty flower).Of course, there are other exceptions, but for beginners, just remember some simple rules is okay

[u/unseasonedunflavored → u/Ambitious-Party9815]

thank you!

[u/lazier_garlic → u/Ambitious-Party9815]

https://www.chineseboost.com/grammar/de-after-adjectives/

On the one and two word adjective rule.

[u/lazier_garlic → u/lazier_garlic]

By the way I think their explanation of the one word adjective rule is a half truth. Yes, often it is functioning as a two character word, compound noun, whatever you want to call it, but not always. Old Chinese didn't have this 的 and Mandarin has plenty of inherited literary phrases from Classical Chinese as well as set spoken phrases. By contrast a lot of the compound adjectives are actually verbal phrases which have to be nominalized to use as a modifier, and it's likely the compound adjectives are getting de appended as an extension of that pattern. Compound adjectives aren't ancient so they don't have existing phrases to compete with the idea of adding de.

Classical Chinese DID run adjectives in a row with no de, so I think my account is more likely to be valid.

[u/rairai77]

的 is a possessive or descriptive marker 我的爸爸 me (possessive) father, but since thats an extra syllable to say something super common where 我爸爸 couldn’t mean anything else anyway, its often dropped for close and obvious relationships. So 我爸爸 = 我的爸爸. The only difference might be on how much you’re emphasizing its your dad? Like maybe if it’s a really important part of your story that it’s your dad in particular in contrast to other dad’s it might be better to use 的. That’s the vibe I get but I’m not a native speaker so IDK for sure. The main point is 的 is correct but you can drop it for close and obvious relationships. 我老是，我姐姐，我妈妈, 你家, etc.

I do think it’s best to think of 的 more as you’re describing the second thing with the first thing. 我的妈妈 describes 妈妈 as 我’s. Since thats makes it easy to understand stuff like 热热的水, i.e. hot water as the water is described as hot

[u/mundtzu]

Basically, de is used for posession and connecting meaning. You can translate 'I, me, us' into Mandarin but not 'my'. At least not as a direct word match. Mandarin expresses posession not through genitive. It doesnt have cases, therefore Chinese expresses it in other ways, because languages are more similar than you think!

So, for genitive constructions you use de. And then you can also use it to describe things and connect the meaning: the car that I bought two years ago You would literally take what comes after 'that' and put it int first, then put de tonconnect it to 'car'.

Take a mandarin sentence where u have a clear translation and just understand the structure. Write out what each word literally means That's difficult sometimes because as said ucant translate de as a direct word, as a linguist u would call it a particle.... So for example:

The car that i bought two years ago liǎng nián qián mǎi de chē Word for word: wǒ - I / me liǎng - two nián - years qián - before / ago mǎi - buy de - [linking particle] chē - car

Trust me, if u just understand the word for word order,.you will literally think like a Chinese..this is how we learn languages naturally, as kids! Its called birkenbihl brain friendly learning

[u/unseasonedunflavored → u/mundtzu]

this is amazing thank you so much!!🙏🏻🙏🏻

[u/ChildOfHonor]

Veryyy new beginner here. I learned you can skip it when the possessor is a personal pronoun (I/Me/He/Her) and the relationship being expressed is interpersonal (family/friends/coworkers/classmates)

[u/nhatquangdinh]

It's just the possessive particle as well as the particle used with adjectives.

[u/DeanBranch]

Use 的 where you use 's.

For example "Lee's cat" is 李的貓

[u/lazier_garlic → u/DeanBranch]

Not to be confused with Li Mao.

[u/According_Ice_2762]

It comes after a pronoun to mean possession, so since it comes after 我 , it goes from meaning “I” to “my”. Sometimes it is omitted and you just kinda have to go based on context clues.

[u/Zagrycha]

的 in this context is a possessive.  It turns phrases into their possessive form-- mine, my, his, hers, its, theirs, A of B, etc etc etc.

Grammatically it is always there anytime there is a relevant possessive phrase, but sometimes people choose not to say it because its obvious.  Compare a sentence like "you go to the store." in english.  The "you" is always there grammatically, but people often only say "go to the store." 

When you are more advanced it will become clear when to drop words and when not to. In the mean time just follow the examples of the lessons, and if in doubt on your own sentences include everything.  You will never be incorrect to include words that a more fluent person might optionally drop. 

[u/Nice-Rest-8267]

的 is also used to emphasize on something?, like convey the meaning more extremely? e.g. 是的… which is used when someone is tryan say "yeeahh that's riiight!" (not possession I know), tho without 的 it'd be "that's right!". tho I'm not expert in Chinese, people can comment under this and discuss this claim.

[u/hhhxxq]

你猫× 你“的”猫√ Just like in English, nobody would say “my father cat.” You have to say “my father's cat.”

[u/hhhxxq → u/hhhxxq]

Edit: Just to clarify, “你猫” is not a standard phrase by itself. But in spoken Chinese, people can sometimes leave out “的,” so “你猫在哪儿？” and “你的猫在哪儿？” can both be used. In writing, however, you should use the full form, “你的猫.”

[u/Certain-Pin-6985]

you+de=your

[u/Luciolinpos2]

Interesting that the same phonetic (de, of in english) denotes possession in spanish.

Edit: Of course it must be a coincidence.

[u/atg-n]

我是母語者，“的” 用在所有格、或是形容某項事物時。同時，“的”也能讓句子更通順。舉凡英文所有格 's ，或形容詞後接名詞,如beautiful(美麗的) girl （女孩）。另外of也是“的”，如：台灣的首都 → The capital of Taiwan，也就是兩個名詞相連時。

[u/atg-n → u/atg-n]

說與自己有關的事物時，通常可以省略“的”。比如「我肚子餓」、「我爸」、「我朋友」。

[u/Embarrassed-Wrap-451 → u/[deleted]]

That's not helpful at all. OP clearly wants to know the difference between 你的猫 and 他爸爸, where both are possessives, but only one case uses 的.