r/DebateVaccines • u/familiar_detail_ • 5d ago
Grew up anti-vax
I want to share my experience growing up anti-vax. This isn’t to be rude to anyone pro-vax or anti-vax, but just to share my experience and my reasoning throughout my life. I hope that it may help some understand where anti-vaxxers are coming from, and I hope that it may also help some anti-vaxxers consider their decision.
I was never vaccinated for anything as a child. The reason why, was because one time my mom was babysitting her younger sister who had just gotten a vaccine that morning. Her eyes went crossed, and my mom was extremely freaked out and assumed it was the vaccine since it had been given to her that morning (I’m not commenting one way or the other on if it was vaccine or not, because I have absolutely no way to know that, and that’s not what this post is about. If this freaks people out towards vaccines, that’s fair. Again, I’m just sharing my story. I will say though, I know this experience really scared my mother, so I do understand her connecting it to the vaccine). My aunt was given special glasses and she fully recovered. And yes, this is a true story. She had no other issues health wise btw.
I continued to be wary of vaccines for most of my life. I’d heard the story about my aunt, and my mother was worried maybe we had some genetic predisposition that made vaccines dangerous for us. I had whooping cough as a toddler, chickenpox as a child, and measles as a teenager. None of these caused major issues for me or any long-term health damage. The one thing I will say is that I don’t remember whooping cough, but the stories sounded scary. My older sister had it and literally would have bouts of being unable to breathe, so my dad would take her outside to breathe cold air (idk if that’s actually supposed to help, that’s just what he chose to do for it).
When COVID happened I was very against the vaccine and very afraid of it. I didn’t understand how people could take a vaccine that was so new to the market and not be nervous. I was also particularly nervous because I’d never had ANY vaccine so I didn’t know if I’d have an allergic reaction.
Eventually, as I did research on the vaccine, and as I saw people around me take it without issues, I opted to get one dose and see how I did.
I felt fine so I got the second.
Now this is the important part of my post IMO: This led me to start researching other vaccines. I had never read what kind of things these different viruses like measles, polio, tetanus etc. can do to people.
As I read about each virus, I decided to catch up on my childhood vaccines. Here was my reasoning: Tetanus can kill you. It is a horrific and painful death. Even if you live through it, you will have lifelong health problems, chronic pain, and probably PTSD from the experience.
With measles, if you’re around an unvaccinated pregnant woman, you can cause her baby to have permanent, major birth defects.
With polio, I always thought if I didn’t have it as a kid I’d be fine as an adult. I was wrong: it causes MORE severe nerve damage in adults, and can cause you to be paralyzed from the neck down, unable to breathe on your own for the rest of your life. It is irreversible nerve damage.
I’m not trying to scare anyone. I just want to say, that as I researched these different illnesses, I realized that we vaccinate for sickness that we otherwise can’t do anything about, and that are debilitating or fatal.
And yes, someone could look at something like Guillian Barré syndrome, and say that that is just as bad as polio. Personally, I have known two people who had Guillian Barré. Of the two, I know one came from a vaccine. She made a full recovery within months. With polio, there is no recovery. And even if my friend had never recovered, she was still able to walk, although with difficulty, she was able to breathe and eat on her own, and live a normal life.
With tetanus, I thought about the potential adverse reactions I could have from the vaccine, and I realized that any adverse reaction would be better than death. Even if the vaccine killed me, I realized it would’ve been a better death than a death by tetanus.
So all I’m saying to anti-vaxxers out there, please make sure that you do research on what you’re not vaccinating against, and what can go wrong if you do contract these different illnesses. And please weigh the risks and negative outcomes of either vaccinating and something going wrong, or getting one of these illnesses and something going wrong.
I never did that. Maybe all of you anti-vaxxers have. If so, then great. I just never realized that for myself, I hadn’t actually made an informed decision on it. I had listened to what my parents told me without looking at both sides.
And for pro-vaxxers reading this, I hope this helps you understand where some are coming from with vaccine hesitancy. You hear scary stories about adverse reactions, and sometimes it can feel that doctors push vaccines, which made me skeptical, because I thought it was all about money for them.
If you read all of this, thanks.
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u/DebateVaccines-ModTeam 4d ago
Your comment has been removed due to not adhering to our guideline of civility. Remember, this forum is for healthy debates aimed at increasing awareness of vaccine safety and efficacy issues. Personal attacks, name-calling, and any disrespect detract from our mission of constructive dialogue. Please ensure future contributions promote a respectful and informative discussion environment.
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u/Thormidable 5d ago
Measles can wipe your bodies immunity of other diseases you have developed immunity from...
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u/coconutbal 5d ago
The vaccine can wipe out your life
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u/Thormidable 4d ago
The fact that you say "The vaccine" as if there is one and all vaccines are identical, shows your close mindedness, ignorance on the subject and that you have no evidence to back you.
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u/DebateVaccines-ModTeam 4d ago
Your post/comment has been removed because it was identified as spam or advertising, which is not permitted in our community. Our guidelines focus on encouraging discussions about the pros and cons of vaccines. Content that does not contribute to these discussions, especially promotional material unrelated to vaccine debate, detracts from our forum’s purpose. Please ensure future submissions are in line with our community’s objectives.
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u/didntstarthefire 5d ago
The logic used in this post is flawed. First let me say I am neither pro nor anti vax, and I would support certain vaccines in certain cases.
I totally support you doing whatever you want with your own body, and if you feel good getting vaccinated, go for it. But you’d rather die from a tetanus shot than risk tetanus? You probably wouldn’t risk tetanus, because I’m sure you’d seek medical care if you ever stepped on a dirty pitchfork. There’s post-exposure care for tetanus, it’s not automatic. It’s not automatically fatal.
And I’m not defending tetanus here. I sure don’t want it. But it looks like you don’t really have a clear understanding about many of these illnesses, particularly polio. (Guillan barre used to be called and diagnosed as “polio” before there was a name for it.) there is also not one single case of wild polio in this country. The last case was in 2022, NYC, and it was vaccine strain.
Again- I support you making your own choices. But a lot of your “logic” is fear- based misinformation. It’s very important to be informed, regardless of what choice you make. I don’t think you are.
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u/familiar_detail_ 5d ago
I would rather die from a vaccine than die from tetanus because of the nature of death by tetanus. I think death by a vaccine would be much more peaceful. That was my point.
I understand that tetanus is not automatically fatal, but there was a point in my life where i wouldn’t have gotten a tetanus shot even if i needed one. And have you read about what happens if you have tetanus and manage to live through it? It sounds horrible. I wouldn’t want that.
Also Guillain Barré and polio are two very different illnesses. I don’t even understand your point. I’ve done extensive reading on both.
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u/didntstarthefire 5d ago
If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then you’ve accepted the propaganda hook line and sinker. You should read about the actual history of polio and when they changed the diagnostic criteria/ definition. Not all is as it seems.
No one wants tetanus but it’s incredibly rare unless you are a farmer, and if you did procure a concerning wound, you’d just get the TIG. Post-exposure prophylaxis
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u/familiar_detail_ 5d ago
I came here to share my story, not to go back and forth with people about conspiracy theories.
If you don’t like my logic and how I came to my decision that’s fine. The crux of it all is, I don’t think there’s anything so bad in any vaccine that it outweighs what you’re preventing with it.
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u/Dangerous-Tap-5561 5d ago
We do not know how often a vaccine kills people because VAERS is a flawed system that does not do its job.
Example: my actual friend was injured by the Covid vaccine. Confirmed by multiple doctors. She shared her experience of trying to get her one case into VAERS and if proved to be incredibly difficult and still is not included in their numbers.0
u/familiar_detail_ 5d ago
I’m sorry to hear about your friend. And I do wish that it were easier for doctors to report to VAERS. I thought I read once that anyone can submit a report to VAERS? Idk if that’s actually true though.
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u/didntstarthefire 5d ago
If you are going to post inaccurate misinformation on a public forum I’m going to point it out. Have fun getting boosted
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u/Burstrider12 5d ago
Original post:
I am neither pro nor anti vax
Ends with:
Have fun getting boosted
Maybe he would have listened to you more if you weren't so openly dishonest about your views.
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u/HausuGeist 4d ago
“ If you are going to post inaccurate misinformation on a public forum I’m going to point it out
Says the misinformer.
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u/Dangerous-Tap-5561 5d ago
Sadly people’s real life experiences have been labeled by the “science” and “medical” community which are all profiting off of vaccines. Follow the money man.
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u/Burstrider12 5d ago
First let me say I am neither pro nor anti vax
People will take your posts more seriously if you don't try to hide your agenda like this. It's obvious from your posts you are pretty hardcore anti-vax.
But you’d rather die from a tetanus shot than risk tetanus?
How often do tetanus shots kill people?
There’s post-exposure care for tetanus, it’s not automatic.
Prevention is better than treatment.
there is also not one single case of wild polio in this country
Because of the tremendous success of the vaccines.
Again- I support you making your own choices. But a lot of your “logic” is fear- based misinformation. It’s very important to be informed, regardless of what choice you make. I don’t think you are.
Ironically, your post is almsot entirely fear based misinformation - there is no reason to think a tetanus shot is going to kill you or is more dangerous than tetanus itself.
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u/didntstarthefire 4d ago edited 4d ago
You looked at my posts?? I’m so flattered ☠️ But seriously your strategy is so tired. It gives me nothing to work with. You’re not actually interested in any sort of real debate, you’re just making grand sweeping statements that sound sort of good but crumble the minute anyone asks you for specifics
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u/Burstrider12 4d ago
If you're not able to debate the points and feel bad that you got caught lying about being an anti-vaxxer, there's no need to reply.
I asked specific questions, and made specific claims. If you can't address them then we will just assume its because you just don't have the knowledge.
sound sort of good but crumble the minute anyone asks you for specifics
You mean like asking someone how often tetanus shots kill people after they suggest the shot is more risky than tetanus itself?
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u/jinnoman 3d ago
Because of the tremendous success of the vaccines.
What is your evidence of that tremendous success of the vaccines?
How did you establish that it is not tremendous success of other factors?
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u/Burstrider12 3d ago
What is your evidence of that tremendous success of the vaccines?
The fact that polio isn't around anymore and went away after vaccines were developed and rolled out.
How did you establish that it is not tremendous success of other factors?
Because of massive studies and because of a basic research of the history.
Look at case numbers:
1955: vaccine is created. 58 000 cases that year (in the US)
1957: 5600 cases
1961: 161 cases
Unless you are arguing something else happened in 1955 that caused it (did Rosa Parks refusing to get off the bus reduce polio cases?), it seems pretty obvious without even getting into more detail. If you want, we can look at the oral polio vaccine and how it was implemented in european countries and brought cases to 0. But what I've posted should suffice.
Make your argument for the alternative.
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u/jinnoman 2d ago
What massive studies? Can you provide one study that proves this is due to vaccines?
How did you excluded possibility of cases misclassification in 1955?
Are you 100% sure that this numbers are not over reported?
Was there any case Diagnostic Redefinition after 1955?
Could Diagnostic Redefinition after 1955 lower cases reporting numbers?
In the mid-20th century, neurotoxic chemicals such as DDT, lead arsenate, and Paris Green were widely used in agriculture and urban mosquito control. Acute toxicity from these nerve-damaging chemicals caused spinal/neurological paralysis symptoms that mimicked polio, and that reduced domestic DDT use coincided with drops in paralytic cases.
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u/Burstrider12 2d ago
What massive studies? Can you provide one study that proves this is due to vaccines?
Many countries did their own studies to determine the efficacy of the vaccine. Obviously the big one was in 1954, which showed the results that justified releasing it in 1955.
"The polio vaccine field trials of 1954, sponsored by the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis (March of Dimes), are among the largest and most publicised clinical trials ever undertaken. Across the United States, 623 972 schoolchildren were injected with vaccine or placebo, and more than a million others participated as “observed” controls. The results, announced in 1955, showed good statistical evidence that Jonas Salk’s killed virus preparation was 80-90% effective in preventing paralytic poliomyelitis"
Soviet Union did their own in 1958 on 20k children and did one in 1959 on 10 million children. Czechoslovakia did a study on 110k children. In a rare moment during the cold war, a US doctor actually confirmed their research through the UN.
https://www.who.int/news-room/spotlight/history-of-vaccination/history-of-polio-vaccination
How did you excluded possibility of cases misclassification in 1955?
Please provide any evidence this occurred. I didn't exclude anything that was relevant.
Are you 100% sure that this numbers are not over reported?
As sure as I am they're not underreported. Are you sure you havent just fallen for a story that seems to make sense on its surface? If you don't think it was the vaccine, you have to explain why cases coincidentally dropped to near zero directly after everyone got vaccinated. Your later DDT point doesn't work at all because that was decades later. I'll get to that.
Was there any case Diagnostic Redefinition after 1955?
Why are you capitalising those words? Polio has not changed since it was first discovered, though the way we diagnose it has gotten more accurate over time. Another talking point with no basis. If anything, cases should have increased when diagnosis got better, not dissapeared.
Could Diagnostic Redefinition after 1955 lower cases reporting numbers?
I don't see why it would. How do you know it didn't increase cases reporting numbers?
If it was a classifying issue, then polio would still be around. Have you met many people in an iron lung lately?
Polio is gone. (I think there were 2 cases in the entire world in 2021, in afghanistan)
In the mid-20th century, neurotoxic chemicals such as DDT, lead arsenate, and Paris Green were widely used in agriculture and urban mosquito control. Acute toxicity from these nerve-damaging chemicals caused spinal/neurological paralysis symptoms that mimicked polio, and that reduced domestic DDT use coincided with drops in paralytic cases.
DDT was used until 1972 in the US and into the 80s in the UK.
Cases dropped in the 50s and bottomed out in the 60s.
I don't think you have the timeline correct and this isn't a sufficient alternative explanation.
What caused cases to drop to zero, since your theories of diagnosis classification and banning DDT don't hold up to reality?
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u/jinnoman 1d ago
Maybe you didn't understand question so I will repeat.
Can you provide one study that proves Polio reduction is due to vaccine?
Please provide any evidence this occurred. I didn't exclude anything that was relevant.
So you saying it is not possible to misclassify disease? So you don't know if there was Polio classification change in 1952 or after?
As sure as I am they're not underreported.
What is your confidence based on? Do you have any evidence?
If you don't think it was the vaccine, you have to explain why cases coincidentally dropped to near zero directly after everyone got vaccinated.
I don't have to explain anything. I am asking you question about evidence for your claim and you didn't provide any so far.
Polio has not changed since it was first discovered, though the way we diagnose it has gotten more accurate over time.
I didn't say Polio changed. What you mean by more accurate? What was more accurate exactly?
Did something change in diagnostic in 1955 or after?
Did diagnosis of cases got stricter after vaccine program introduction?
Was it easier to report Polio case before or after vaccine program introduction?
Was the definition of Polio same before and after vaccine program introduction?Another talking point with no basis. If anything, cases should have increased when diagnosis got better, not dissapeared.
Are you saying Polio disappeared after 1955?
I don't see why it would. How do you know it didn't increase cases reporting numbers?
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. If diagnosis got stricter then less cases would be reported.
How do you know it didn't increase cases reporting numbers?
What is your evidence that case numbers are accurate?
The fact that polio isn't around anymore and went away after vaccines were developed and rolled out.
If it was a classifying issue, then polio would still be around. Have you met many people in an iron lung lately?
Are you saying there is no cases of Polio anymore?
Polio is gone. (I think there were 2 cases in the entire world in 2021, in afghanistan)
Are you sure about that? As sure as about not underreported cases?
DDT was used until 1972 in the US and into the 80s in the UK.
Cases dropped in the 50s and bottomed out in the 60s.
I don't think you have the timeline correct and this isn't a sufficient alternative explanation.I don't think you have the timeline correct and your theory isn't a sufficient alternative explanation.
Pointing to the 1972 EPA ban date overlooks the actual usage data. According to US EPA historical archives:
Peak vs. Ban: DDT domestic consumption peaked in 1959 and dropped drastically throughout the 1960s. The 1972 ban was simply the final legal formalization of a decline that had already been occurring for over a decade.
Type of Exposure Matters: Massive public residential spraying (spraying neighborhoods, public beaches, dairy barns, and indoor spaces) was concentrated heavily in the late 1940s and early 1950s. Controls on direct human exposure began in the mid-1950s, long before the blanket 1972 agricultural ban.
Equating the legal end-date of a chemical in 1972 with actual human exposure patterns in 1955 ignores the reality of how pesticide regulation and application evolved.
What caused cases to drop to zero, since your theories of diagnosis classification and banning DDT don't hold up to reality?
Are you 100% sure they didn't play role in Polio history?
It is you theories that don't hold up to reality, because you have no evidence to support them.
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u/familiar_detail_ 4d ago
Prevention absolutely is better than treatment.
TIG is a plasma-derived antibody. It kind of blows my mind that an antivaxxer who doesn’t trust their doctor when they recommend a vaccine will, according to this person, trust their doctor when they recommend TIG. They will also apparently trust that the hospital properly screened the blood for blood borne pathogens. Taking a vaccine? Disgusting! Taking a vitamin K shot? Despicable! Taking an injection of someone else’s blood plasma? No problem!
Also, I really hope for these people that whatever hospital they end up at has TIG on hand.
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u/Admirable-Pen7480 13h ago
I was just going to say this. Why refuse a vaccine to just take prophylaxis???? And guess what the first line of measles prophylaxis is? MMR lol. I work in public health and a lot of people who refused the vaccine for their kids will immediately jump on prophylaxis after exposure. I’m always happy to connect them with the resource, but the logic confuses me.
I thought this was a great post. I deal with a lot of people through my job who were raised without vaccines and change their mind as adults. When I talk about that in this group people say they don’t believe me. I love seeing first hand accounts of this because it’s so valuable for someone who has experienced and can see both points of view and explain that to others who are so stuck to one side of the argument. Thank you.
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u/HausuGeist 4d ago
“ First let me say I am neither pro nor anti vax”
You’re antivax. Stop trying to hide what you really can’t. It’s like a Trump supporter say they’re “politically homeless” or decrying “both sides.”
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u/didntstarthefire 4d ago
Calm down and breathe sweety
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u/HausuGeist 4d ago
Sounds like I hit the bullseye.
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u/didntstarthefire 4d ago
I don’t care to put real effort into a convo with you for obvious reasons dawg
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u/Burstrider12 4d ago
anti-vaxxers already have a reputation for being dishonest and you're not helping
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u/dhmt 5d ago
If this is the conclusion you landed on, you are not yet finished your research.
The statistical answers are the most useful. Properly done clinical trials should give us good statistics. Properly done epidemiology after vaccination should also give good statistics. When the properly done LARGE studies do not exist, you have to ask why. LARGE studies are expensive and are funded by an unbiased party (pharma) - they are trying to get an answer they like, they are not looking for the truth.
To help with your further research, look up lawyer Aaron Siri, pediatrician Dr. Paul Thomas, and for COVID specifically cardiologist Dr. Peter McCullough.
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u/Dangerous-Tap-5561 5d ago
This was my thinking too when the poster talked about doing her research. Doing research looking for answers on vaccines is terribly difficult. Even Google has a company that is involved with vaccines. Any info against vaccines is heavily censored. Even ChatGPT has become incredibly biased towards vaccines being “safe and effective” early
Chat was much more open to being skeptical.3
u/Nicaraguano 4d ago edited 4d ago
It's difficult because it's a huge business, with governments signing massive contracts to purchase vaccines for entire populations.
If someone doesn't naturally suspect that massive financial interests come with lobbying and efforts to push a particular narrative, then they must have been born yesterday- or just teleported to Earth from underground.
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u/Burstrider12 5d ago
Doing research looking for answers on vaccines is terribly difficult.
It's one of the most well researched topics in the world.
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u/StopDehumanizing 5d ago
Siri is a slimy lawyer paid to lie by Billionaire Claire Dwoskin. He's literally a paid propagandist.
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u/dhmt 4d ago
Attack the messenger, not the data?
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u/StopDehumanizing 4d ago
You didn't provide any data. Just the name of a propagandist.
Do you believe everything Siri is paid to make you believe?
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u/Hip-Harpist 5d ago
Paul Thomas had his license revoked because his medical recommendation to not vaccinate led to multiple patients being hospitalized with preventable illnesses. He ordered lab studies to CHECK if his alternative vaccine schedule was working. Well, it didn't work, and their antibody counts were low, and he NEVER followed up on his personal experiment. So I don't know why you would glorify him.
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u/CurvySexretLady 5d ago
Calling it a "witch hunt" doesn't establish that it was one, any more than disciplinary action against Thomas automatically invalidates his research.
And citing "large-number statistics" doesn't establish that his conclusions were sound. Sample size alone doesn't determine the validity of a study.
You're making two separate claims here: that his punishment was unjustified and that his research was reliable. Both require evidence, not simply assertions.
What specifically supports either conclusion?
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u/Hip-Harpist 4d ago
Did you respond to the wrong comment? We weren't talking about any witch-hunt or large-number statistics.
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u/CurvySexretLady 4d ago
You're right, that was intended for a different comment in the discussion. I replied in the wrong place. My mistake.
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u/Sasataf12 5d ago
Large vaccine studies absolutely do exist. Vaccine studies are probably the most riguorously studied medicine ever and have the largest data set of any study, because the number of vaccinated people is extremely high.
It's completely illogical to think that large studies haven't been done on vaccines when the overwhelming majority of the planet are vaccinated (including doctors, nurses, researchers, etc).
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u/Burstrider12 5d ago
Aaron Siri is a lawyer and has no medical training.
Paul Thomas put a kid in the hospital for months with tetanus and lost his licence. He sells books and makes money lying about vaccine.
McCullough has no training in virology and gave up his career as a cardiologist to become rich/famous by being an anti-vax celebrity, selling "detox" potions.
Meanwhile, all of them are vaccinated and so are their entire families.
When the properly done LARGE studies do not exist,
There have been studies done that have MILLIONS of participants. We are not lacking in any data.
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u/PlayaNoir 5d ago
As I read about each virus, I decided to catch up on my childhood vaccines. Here was my reasoning: Tetanus can kill you. It is a horrific and painful death. Even if you live through it, you will have lifelong health problems, chronic pain, and probably PTSD from the experience.
With measles, if you’re around an unvaccinated pregnant woman, you can cause her baby to have permanent, major birth defects.
With polio, I always thought if I didn’t have it as a kid I’d be fine as an adult. I was wrong: it causes MORE severe nerve damage in adults, and can cause you to be paralyzed from the neck down, unable to breathe on your own for the rest of your life. It is irreversible nerve damage.
I’m not trying to scare anyone. I just want to say, that as I researched these different illnesses, I realized that we vaccinate for sickness that we otherwise can’t do anything about, and that are debilitating or fatal.
This is just total nonsensical fear mongering that you're posting here. If you were susceptible to any of these things you would have already had them. Stop trying to fool people so that they buy into vaccines.
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u/Burstrider12 5d ago
The person shared their personal experience and you insulted them and accused them of trying to fool people. Please try to be more kind.
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u/Sasataf12 5d ago
If you were susceptible to any of these things you would have already had them.
That's like saying if you were susceptible to drowing, you would've drowned already.
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u/familiar_detail_ 4d ago
I actually used to think this too. I thought I was out of the woods because I’d reached adulthood without having anything major happen as a result of not being vaccinated.
That was part of why I posted this. I went through most of my life not realizing that polio can have devastating consequences if you get it as an adult, and that tetanus does way more than cause “lockjaw”. That was all I ever heard about tetanus. I also didn’t realize that my not being vaccinated as an adult posed a danger to newborn babies or to unvaccinated pregnant women.
I posted this purely in the hope that if there is anyone else out there who doesn’t know this stuff, my post will at least inform them of the risk they’re assuming, to themselves and others, by not being vaccinated.
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u/Thormidable 5d ago
Vaccinated children have a lower risk of dying from SIDS than unvaccinated children.
https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2015/0601/p778.html
https://www.webmd.com/parenting/sids-prevention
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11008475/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC30557/
The risk is 50% lower. Pretty significant.
There have been whooping cough deaths in 2024 in the UK. Every single death was unvaccinated.
http://ww.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cye0w4j384ro
UK vaccination rates 90%+ for pertussis: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/latest-childhood-vaccination-uptake-statistics-published
10 deaths of infants by whooping cough last year (pertussis): https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pertussis-epidemiology-in-england-2024/confirmed-cases-of-pertussis-in-england-by-month
Just over 600,000 babies born last year:
So of 60,000 unvaccinated babies 10 died giving us a 1 in 6,000 death rate for unvaccinated babies from whooping cough alone.
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u/huzzah-1 4d ago
There is no evidence for a measles virus, and there's not even a medical definition for "polio". Tetanus has never been demonstrated to be related to bacteria either.
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u/coconutbal 5d ago
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u/coconutbal 5d ago
Everyone should watch this!
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u/Burstrider12 5d ago
This is the lady who thinks Kirk was killed by the Jooz and that the french presidents wife is secretly a man?
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u/StopDehumanizing 5d ago
Cold air can absolutely help mitigate a cough. Your dad may have saved your sister's life. Pertussis is no joke.
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u/genteel-guttersnipe 5d ago
I believe it is rubella (German Measles) that causes severe birth defects, not measles. They're in the same vaccine though.
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u/familiar_detail_ 5d ago
You are correct. Rubella is also known as German Measles though, and yes they’re in the same vaccine.
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u/Healedbyfrequency 4d ago
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u/familiar_detail_ 4d ago
That study ends with this: “In this study, which only allowed for the calculation of unadjusted observational associations, higher ORs were observed within the vaccinated versus unvaccinated group for developmental delays, asthma and ear infections. Further study is necessary to understand the full spectrum of health effects associated with childhood vaccination.”
The researchers are saying their analysis only compared raw rates between groups, without accounting for other factors that could explain the differences, like how often kids see a doctor. That kind of analysis can show a pattern, but it can't show cause and effect. Larger studies that DID adjust for those factors haven't found a link between vaccines and these conditions.
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u/Healedbyfrequency 4d ago
Larger studies…. Everyday we see unexplained chronic illnesses in the population. Keyword “unexplained” aka injecting known toxins into the body. It’s well known vaccine cause autoimmune disorders. Some are in denial that is all.
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u/familiar_detail_ 4d ago
The study you just shared looked at raw rates of known conditions, and the authors said at the end that their method couldn't account for other factors, so it can't show cause and effect. That's the limitation I was pointing to.
As for unexplained illness, lots of things in our modern environment likely contribute to chronic disease, including the standard American diet, and researchers are still working out how much each matters. But not having an explanation for something isn't evidence that vaccines are the cause. If you have a specific study in mind, I'm happy to look at it.
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u/Healedbyfrequency 4d ago
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u/familiar_detail_ 2d ago
Thanks for sharing that. I mentioned in my post that a friend of mine seems to have developed an autoimmune condition after the Covid vaccine. She did have related preexisting conditions, but the timing makes it plausible the vaccine played a part, so I'm not dismissing the risk. Doctors openly say vaccines carry a small risk of autoimmune problems in some people, which is part of why you fill out a medical screening form whenever you get any vaccine, and some of the questions do involve autoimmune disorders.
But the paper you posted is a review of case reports, and the authors say themselves that a causal link hasn't been established. They also note that some patients likely had undiagnosed disease beforehand, and they write that the benefits of vaccination far outweigh the possible risks and encourage people to get vaccinated.
Rare risks exist with nearly every vaccine, so the useful question is how they compare to the risk from the disease itself. For example, one study of Guillain Barré found that people who get sick with the flu end up with Guillain Barré more than people who get the flu shot. The Flu shot was associated with about 1 case per million vaccines given, versus about 17 cases per 1 million people sick with the flu who sought medical care for it.
Here’s the reference for that:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23810252/
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u/Healedbyfrequency 4d ago
Never seen it in my own experience. So many chronic illnesses that it’s getting harder to deny.
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u/Greedy_Speed986 1d ago
My issue with vaccines is that money corrupts everything. There are some things that once you start to notice them, you can’t unsee them. Vaccines are known to increase autoimmune and allergic responses. Now, watch TV tonight and look at the number of ads for pharmaceutical products that treat autoimmune and allergic problems. Guess what? Vaccines feed the entire Big Pharma pipeline by creating patients for life. And MSM won’t tell you about that, because MSM is funded by Big Pharma. Oh, and Big Pharma is underwriting your politicians too.
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u/nintendogirl1989 5d ago
Thank you for sharing! Some elders used to think getting chicken pox built immunity but now vaccination is recommended. Shingles has been described to me as very very painful. It has been a long time since Americans have seen devastating diseases prevented by vaccines.
RFK doesn't have a medical background...
And not only that please think of others around you and protecting the community.
I personally know someone that got Guillan Barre from the vaccine, but she had other pre-existing conditions...
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u/familiar_detail_ 5d ago
Yeah I’ve heard that some think that’s part of what fuels vaccine hesitancy. That many of us haven’t seen the devastating consequences of these different illnesses, because we grew up in the age of vaccines.
My friend who had Gillian Barré had other health issues at the time of her vaccination already as well.
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u/Vaxopedia 5d ago
Thank you for your story.
FWIW, it is known that vaccines beyond a few case reports, are not usually associated with crossed eyes.
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u/HausuGeist 4d ago
Do you think if other antivaxxers could personally witness people being vaccinated and not having issues, this might change at least some of their minds?
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u/Healedbyfrequency 4d ago
I have had my own issues from vaccines. The unvaccinated chose to stop vaccinating due to seeing so many issues over the years. Since I can’t directly post links do a simple google on vaccinated vs unvaccinated children studies long term chronic health outcomes in children. The proof is there for all of who are saying there’s no proof there is.
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u/HausuGeist 4d ago
If you could see a large number of people who vaccinated and didn’t have issues, would that affect your opinion?
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u/Burstrider12 5d ago
This a great post and we really don't have enough of this story here - we so often see the "I loved vaccines my whole life but then X happened or I read Y book and now I realised they're all bad and its a plot to kill us all!" story, very rarely the inverse.
Thanks for sharing.
Just curious about this:
Her eyes went crossed
You hear stories like this, normally in the stories its something liek "they had the MMR shot and the light faded from their eyes" or they instantly went non-verbal.
But eyes crossed? Like it immediately effected her vision? Or did your mother believe the eyes crossed was like a sign that they made her mentally disabled or something?
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u/familiar_detail_ 5d ago
Thank you! I seem to have made a lot of people unhappy with my post. 😬 😆
But I just hoped to reach anyone who is maybe in a similar headspace as I was years ago. I hadn’t done research on both sides of the issue, and because I wasn’t taken to doctors as a child I really knew very little about vaccines. I just wish someone had laid out to me what some of these illnesses can do, so that I could’ve weighed the risks vs benefits.To answer your question: my aunt was given a vaccine in the morning (I’ve never heard which one), and either later that morning or in the afternoon, my mom was babysitting her. At one point, she went up to my mom and said “I see two of everything.” My mom looked at her, and her eyes were crossed. This really freaked my mom out, and I don’t know if they took her to the emergency room or called the doctor’s office or what, but she got her some sort of help right away. The rest of the story they always tell is that some sort of special glasses fixed her eyes, but they didn’t give her anymore vaccines because it freaked them out.
I do wonder if at the time my mom thought it has affected my aunt mentally, but thankfully she was totally fine after that.
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u/Burstrider12 5d ago
This sub skews heavily anti-vax - like 80/20, so expect a rough reception here if you say anything other than "vaccine are poison". You will actually get upvoted more for saying viruses don't exist than suggesting any vaccine might have medical benefit. Don't sweat it too much.
To answer your question: my aunt was given a vaccine in the morning (I’ve never heard which one), and either later that morning or in the afternoon, my mom was babysitting her. At one point, she went up to my mom and said “I see two of everything.” My mom looked at her, and her eyes were crossed. This really freaked my mom out, and I don’t know if they took her to the emergency room or called the doctor’s office or what, but she got her some sort of help right away. The rest of the story they always tell is that some sort of special glasses fixed her eyes, but they didn’t give her anymore vaccines because it freaked them out.
I think this is part of what makes anti-vax propaganda so powerful. Because it fills in something that would be scary and have no explanation. If it wasn't the vaccines fault, maybe your mother would spend the rest of her life thinking there's some dormant issue that might come back up again. But saying "I've stopped the vaccines and that has fixed the issue" puts it back of mind.
I can only speculate. Again, thanks for sharing your story!
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u/familiar_detail_ 4d ago
Yeah, I’ve given a lot of thought to where my family and others are maybe coming from, and to my own reasonings on vaccines over the years. Something I’ve started to realize is that the whole topic of whether to vaccinate or not is generally pretty scary. For people with vaccine hesitancy, the fear of an adverse reaction is really strong. And meanwhile, grappling with the fear of these different illnesses is really strong too.
I kind of wonder if antivaxxers put the fear of sickness out of their minds by saying the vaccines are so terrible it isn’t worth taking the risk, and that these illnesses are super rare so it’s fine. And yeah, I think my mom felt like she was avoiding the fearful thing she saw with my aunt ever happening again by avoiding vaccines, so this probably gave her a feeling of control over something scary. Meanwhile, sadly this put her own children at risk of death or serious injury from not being vaccinated.
I think what is difficult with this topic, is that you need to take in information that is objective and scientific, and do a risk-benefit analysis. This is something that should be done rationally, but as humans it is a fearful subject so that will color all of our decisions I think, and I think that goes both ways whether you’re pro or anti vax.
What I’ve learned from these comments against my post is that some seem to comfort themselves by saying that none of these risks are real. I could imagine that feels good, because it maybe feels like a way to escape having to take a risk or face a scary thing in life. But the reality is that there are illnesses that can have devastating consequences, and there are vaccines available to prevent them, but we each have to prove to ourselves whether the risks associated with vaccination are worth it or not.
Sorry if this is just a lengthy reiteration of my opinion. I’ve had this topic on my mind lately because my spouse and I are expecting a baby. In our decision to vaccinate our baby, I’ve thought a lot about how I grew up, and in the process I decided to share my story in the hopes it might help some people.
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u/Kaurifish 4d ago
You’re coming at it from the wrong POV to see it clearly.
This isn’t you vs the world.
This is humanity vs the seething mass of pathogens waiting for their turn to eat us. I hope we can count you on the side of humanity.
When you vaccinate, the most important effects are that you are less likely to end up hospitalized or to pass it on. By choosing to vaccinate, you also deny the pathogen the opportunity to use you to evolve into a more dangerous form.
We drove small pox and a flu strain to extinction. We can’t do it to all diseases because some have other animal hosts, but there are some we could. And isn’t that a better world to contribute to?
And it’s in your own best interests, too. You’re not old enough to get the shingles shots yet, but that will save you from some excruciating possibilities.
And measles can scrub your immune memory. Called immune amnesia.
I, too, grew up in a crazy cult (Libertarianism/Objectivism) and was forced to abandon it on contact with reality. You have to let it all go.
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u/noutopasokon 5d ago
No reason to put all "vaccines" in a single bucket. Covid isn't polio. Their shots don't use anywhere near the same technology. And covid isn't as traumatic as polio (you're not a serious person of you think it is/was). Just let people make their own choices.