Hello. This is a brand new deck system as of 2 months ago. I noticed that not only were 2/3 horizontal supports off center, but also, 2 joist hangars are snapped.
I contacted the builder and he said the support posts didn’t move (despite obvious slide marks) or shift. He also said it was nailed on the end where the broken joists are and it was done so to make it straight.
It seems it isn’t or wasn’t square to begin with and should a single 6” x 6” horizontal support been used rather than 3 2” x 6” ’s?
Vertical and horizontal cracks on wood too?
Thanks for feedback.
Thanks for the feedback all:
Seeing as work needs to be done, several questions:
What is the best way to lift the deck platform to add/adjust horizontal beams?
The builder insists the vertical supports didn’t move, what else would explain the misalignment?
Best way to secure end/mid posts attachment is Simpson Ties?
Do the 3 horizontal beams need to be bound together?
You can use a couple 2x6 boards to lift the deck assembly up an eighth inch to scoot your posts directly under the beams. Then install appropriate hardware.
Editing to add: after zooming in, I see the problem. He used inadequate hardware to attach posts to the beam. Those are for securing the joists to a beam underneath. You'll need to slide something like a Simpson cc66 in there and fasten per spec
I hear you, but I wouldn't let him back on the job. Can't properly nail/size hangers or acknowledge the post to beam connection is wrong means he'll find another way to cheap out.
Needs a professional assessment stat. Joists are sliding across the top of the beam, missing knee bracing on tall posts, missing joist blocking over the beam, might even be experiencing ledger board failure which would be disastrous and potentially deadly if anyone is on it (and definitely below it).
The 2x6s need to be slightly longer than your posts or you can put a board on the ground to give you an extra 1.5". You just stand them up underneath the beam. Probably need to sledge a bit.
Easiest way is put a "slide board" down and cut a post board slightly too long and hammer it in position under. But you might want a standoff so you have room to get the metal in
If you set your 2x6 post on about a two foot long piece of scrap on the ground-the top up next to the post and the bottom about a foot away. Then you whack the bottom of the 2x6 toward vertical, it will lift the deck as it moves to vertical.
But the 2x6 a little longer than distance between ground and bottom of beam/deck joists, place 2x6 diagonally putting pressure on top or bottom to wedge into place. Then take another 2x6 and use it to ram the other one in direction of making it plumb. It’ll work. I was in a commercial job that was king of a shit show. They had not installed bearing blocks to carry weight down structure and were already on level three. That’s when my co worker and myself noticed a wall on n first floor with plumbing and electrical already installed but the studs were all bowed way out almost to the point of breaking. Guys must have been walking by it for weeks. So me being an apprentice and not k owing what to do I got my buddy and followed his direction. Got an LVL, but it to the height we needed. Jammed it in and used another long LVL and slid it hard on the floor into the other. Gradually we jacked that 3 story old folks home up several inches allowing the studs to relax. Installed the bearing blocks where needed and went back to what we were working on before. I learned most my old carpenter hacks from my guy Butch.
I think this is just a disaster waiting to happen. If the hurricane ties sheared off like that, most likely something bad is happening. Look at Photo 4 please.
Best of luck op.
They look like Simpson h2.5a ties. The lateral load capacity perpendicular to the wall is 110 pounds (vs uplift of 700). A normal sized adult jumping on the deck could generate that much force. Get 4 people dancing and you’re there too. People jumping up during a game. Not hard to generate that much force. No strike required.
For sure. As long as the joists are still well attached to the ledger and the ledger well attached to the house, I would expect the beams moved.
Then again, it could be the framing was forced into square and popped out. Interestingly the diagonal brace connects closest to the post that is still where it should be. OP should do the quick 3-4-5 check for squareness on the external corners.
I think I'm seeing that the post/beam connection was cut, maybe with a sawzall. Those connectors, even though they're not appropriate, don't just snap off. If there was a force applied that was enough to break them there's no way the beam would still be on the posts. They and their supporting initial nails were cut.
You can see places where the posts were piss nailed through to the beam, they were probably decently connected when the beam was first set. I always make my decks wear their simpsons but framing nails are strong as fuck on their own, more than enough to keep a beam on a post.
The posts came before the beam, then the joists then the deck. The beam was seated neatly on top of the posts when it was set obviously and there's nails to indicate this. The ledger didn't violently rip itself away from the house on just the one side.
edit: the beam span isn't great but it isn't related. There's a critical fuckup here somewhere, the inadequacies are only a distraction.
My first question is did he pull permits for it? People unfortunately think the government has no place in their lives. This is a good example of where they help you.
As a production manager, I can assure you this likely is not the case, you just haven't been caught and fined yet.
In the US (speaking from NY, specifically), building permits are needed for a LOT of projects you wouldn't necessarily assume need them. On top of that, those rules change per municipality.
For example: the Town of NYC, the Village of NYC, the City of NYC are allllllllllll different rules, that are then exacerbated ten fold when an HOA is involved.
And I'm not talking common sense stuff, I'm talking like, replacing windows, doors, siding, etc. sometimes it needs a permit, sometimes it doesn't.
I will say though, it's rare, but there are towns scattered here that are small enough that the county is then responsible for, but still needed.
NYC is certainly not the most representative sample of this country. In many places people don't get permits for a lot of things and if someone finds it it was there when you moved in. Right or wrong, in the real world a rule without enforcement is a suggestion.
I've never seen ties broken like that. Fortunately, Simpson sells a bracket that would be able to secure the beam onto the posts. But I would want to know why the ties (which never should have been used there) broke like that.
I'm also not seeing what's holding together the triple beam. It needs lags or even a carriage bolt.
100% they should have used a post to beam connector. Those ties he used are for vertical hold down, usually rafters or joists. The beam and has definitely shifted on the one side. If this contractor is licensed, you can report them if you're not getting the deck built to code.
I can't believe all these people saying it's probably fine. At first I didn't know what was going on, then I realized those beams have no positive connection to the posts anymore. The straps broke. That is completely unsafe. Do what you can to safely stabilize that. Gravity-wise it might be "fine" but we don't live in a static environment. Lateral forces are what caused those metal brackets to shear and fail. And it's going to keep happening because there is no positive connection I can see. It doesn't just look like the posts are off center, it looks like the beam and joist framing moved enough to break the improper strap that was there, and now is free to keep moving around. That needs to be addressed.
I don’t think the beam moved because the hurricane ties on top are still intact. It almost looks like someone broke or cut the bottom ties to plumb the posts. It’s hard to tell from pictures, though. Other than missing the proper connectors, this deck looks pretty sturdy.
Many areas (such as mine and the 4 other counties around I work in) have no inspections on decks, so it’s entirely possible OP area is the same situation
If you zoom in to the 4th photo... you can see the beam is larger than the joists... if the joists are 2x8 then the beam is a triple 2x10... assuming a 16" spacing for the joists makes the beam about 16 feet... so 8' spacing between posts... perfectly adequate.
For sure this deck has issues... it need better connections between posts and beam... get the appropriate simpson connector... you can see a broken strap which was obviously inadequate.
There needs to better lateral bracing considering how tall the posts are.... how much and what type should be designed by an engineer...
But seriously... those aren't 2x6s... and with proper bracing and new post-beam connectors... this isnt the problem everyone seems to think.
well, the beam is not tied to the post any more (ties are broken). I quad up that beam and then use a plate or tied to fasten it to the post. Not sure if all the posts warped - the deck moved or it was just built like this. If you ever have 30+mph sustained winds - this deck is really sub-built. I would quadruple up the blocking and put is sway braces (diagonals) post to beam as well.
I am very curious how the header is attached. This looks pretty sketch and very likely would not have passed an inspection in my area, esp now since all the ties are broken.
the cracks on the posts are called checking - doesnt matter a lick for post integrity.
If I had to guess, all this lumber was likely saturated when it was stood up, and since then has dried out significantly. Being long posts with no support between either end, the brackets need to be more substantial than a small hurricane strap that was never meant to deal with anything but uplift. As they dried out, they put some tension into the straps and the straps resisted until they broke, thankfully, or it would likely be worse. Significant twisting, etc.
Powdercoated steel decorative timber brackets are what I would use to fix this. I'll eat the 1/4"- 5/16" of material gained over that span. I'm not pulling the posts out to cut off a quarter inch with a ~10' span
The problem is that the builder did not correctly connect the top of the post to the beam. Your builder used hurricane ties, which are for joists. That should have failed an inspection. He needs to use metal post caps. You want the BCS2-3/6Z
Easy to put on while building. Harder to retrofit with the weight of a fully built deck on top of it.
Something else reliable will need to be used, perhaps heavy duty plates of some variety, or something custom formed so that all the stress force isn't wanting to just push the nails or screws out. Certainly not just a puny joist hurricane tie. That should never have passed inspection. I'm guessing no inspection here.
If you look closely at the triple there's one nail about every 2 foot, and no staggering. Also triple 2x6 can only span about 7 foot max. Would not call that beam "fine and normal". Not built to code, probably not cause an issue if they go back and staggered fasteners and brackets. Unless they throw a deck party and have a heavy live load it should survive.
The most likely "fix" that will happen is recentering the beam and adding the correct beam/post connectors.
It's weird because they actually used deck to house tension brackets. Which is a bracket most guys don't know exist or use, lol. But didn't double up the rim joist? Idk, maybe couple guys tag teamed the build...
The contractor used hurricane brackets to secure the posts? I see the snap. Then they toed the posts? You maybe able to fix this to all posts on both sides.
A triple 2x6 as a deck beam shouldn't be spanning over about 7 foot and needs beam/post connectors to help prevent exactly what happened. Unless your joists are 12" on center your beam is not to code. Hurricane hangers do zero for lateral loads and this is miss application. You should really check if the joists and ledger are installed properly. It appears the deck pulled away from the house and shifted on the beam. Get an inspection asap and be ready to pursue legal steps as the contractor doesn't appear to have had a clue about deck construction or building codes.
It looks like two posts shifted and snaped their ties and both are off by one ply. The third post totally support all three plys .
The only thing that moved seems to be the posts and after the ties were in place.
The beam needs to be sitting completely on the post. Also there should be mounting hardware at the intersection between the post and the beam. If your builder is not going to fix it. Hire someone else to do it, and send the original builder the invoice.
Go ahead and get ready to lawyer up or take him to small claims court. Based on his response he isn’t going to be very willing to do anything without a little encouragement.
Poor. There's no connection between the beam and the posts. That deck will slide right off with a little time / rain / snow /weight / wind - if windy the uplift will take care of the detachment quickly.
Looks like sooner regardless of earthquake country. If it's a new build and it's already snapped the brackets that they thought would hold it and moved that far
I would take immediate corrective action. Posts look like 6x6? I’d sandwich them with a full length 2x8 that cradles the beam with multiple through lags.
That or some beefier Simpson ties with lags, or both?
Not an engineer, but that beam is just sitting there waiting to move and fail.
so the fact that it's not tied down is a red flag. Why they didn't put the tripple beam on top of the post is bizarre. It wouldn't cost them anything. There is a problem here, it's the lack of a tie in.
You need to get the builder to fix it! If they won't take more pics and go to court. Was it built with a building permit?
I agree with what Chuck said. You need to take some smoking gun pictures. Go around and look for things out of plumb, not square, unexpected translation (horizontal movement), missing hardware, obvious signs of distress, etc.
Best of luck. It really gets me mad the way things work. A contractor can screw things up and it takes an act of God to hold them accountable. I suppose I'm deranged, but it would be nice to hold part of the payment until after inspection. Your a daisy if you do.
That is NOT up to code in my area. Beams aren't allowed to stand on the top of a post like that. They have to be installed in a way that they won't roll over.
Using multiple 2x6 instead of 1 giant beam is normal but those hangers snapped and you need something to resecure it. Although if the beam is actually only 6 inch boards that is probably undersized.
Did they use OSB plywood for the trim pieces? Obviously if they did, not structural but that would be a clear indication of the type of work they do 🤦🏻♂️
This design is no bueno, i think there should be shear bracing of somekind on that beam assembly, and those posts should definitely be securely attached to the beam. Even then whats the prevent this whole thing from just folding flat if theres high winds or an earthquake or something? Seems like that one diagonal brace 2x4 on the jojsts is doing some very important work there but gat damn i cant imagine an engineer would be into any of this. If im wrong would love somekne to school me on that
I'm curious what the connection (if there is one) at the bottom of the posts is.
Probably didn't include this either:
The lateral load connection required by Section R502.2.2 shall be permitted to be in accordance with Figure R502.2.2.3. Hold-down tension devices shall be provided in not less than two locations per deck and each device shall have an allowable stress design capacity of not less than 1500lb.
Those look like 2 x 8 or 10’s, that beam should be screwed together and fully bear on post. I don’t get your contractor’s explanation of how that post shifted. I believe Simpson makes an appropriate connector for that application, hurricane ties are not it! Curious what connection at house is? Did that shift? Are we going down?
Basically your deck is free floating, a strong enough wind and your deck is going to rip the wall out, then you'll have internal structural damage at the base mounts of the wall as the weight pulls down causing it to split. Secure with the correct bracketing
Minor point: If that fascia is OSB, and it appears to be, leaving the backside unfinished is poor practice, particularly on an elevated deck exposed to moisture. OSB is especially vulnerable to moisture at its edges, where water can penetrate, cause swelling, and eventually lead to deterioration. Even exterior-rated OSB is not intended to remain exposed indefinitely.
Need to get up there with a sledgehammer and some Simpson strong ties. Pound that one 2x6 onto the post and screw braces on. Should buy you some time till you can add additional posts/bracing.
I didn't read every comment so I might be repeating some previously said things... But is the beam even laminated? It doesn't even look to me based on the gaps from the underneath photos like the beam is properly fastened to each other and are they even big enough for the span between posts?
As said previously, they needed to use a proper post to beam connector which they didn't..
Is the beam 2x8? Or 2x10? Doesn't look big enough to be 2x12. Not sure what your joist span is but this would be easy for you to check if they even used the right size lumber for your beam span based on spacing between posts and your joist span.
Sheared off hurricane ties within 2 months is a horrible sign. That thing is falling and it’ll be on the ground soon. I’d take this to court if he doesn’t agree to fix or pay for a different contractor to fix as I would not let him touch anything else
I would put another 2x on the beam. If you cant squeeze it up there, put a relief cut at the posts. The extra piece will be proud on one end and bear completely on the other. Clamp it tight and use structural screws to keep it together. Then create a gusset out of wood to tie the post and beam together.
You're good structurally. But it's really easy to adjust the posts, so I'm not sure why they are so off center. The mounting plate to the concrete footer moves.
It's not good structurally when a third of the beam is no longer bearing and hangers have snapped. Aside from contractor halfway doing the job, this could also be frost heave.
Easier than building a Stargate in your basement out of 100 pounds of titanium, 200 feet of fiber optic cable, seven 100,000 watt capacitors, and a toaster.
its not really easy as it moved over 1.5" judging from the snapped "tie" shown in the pic. You also have zero clue on what footer connection (if any) was used as nothing is shown. Even if it is standard one, you only have <1" of wiggle.
You are right to be concerned. I would keep people off the deck until it's fixed. I would not bring back your builder, bc it seems like some obvious corners were cut.
Footer depth needs to be checked if you are in area that drops below 32 in the winter. Are you in an area that permits are required? Call the city/county to make sure.
I think that you have more issues than just the bean not setting on the supports. And why did that strap fail. That's all big time shit. I would not let that contractor back on my property.
If you look at the photo from under the deck looking out, there is a joist which has been "sistered" to. Why? The actual joist seems cut short and doesn't reach the rim joist. It appears that a small block was put in to fill the gap. The sistered piece was put in to actual support that outside rim joist.
I'm confident that there's more, much more. Find a inspector, have it inspected, and go from there.
The things against your house snapped? Or do you mean the straps between the posts and beam, shown as snapped in the photos?
Obviously you got comments on the straps already, but if you also have joist hangars snapping where they’re attaching the deck to the house that’s a major concern
Thats cause by the looks of what i can see they used hurricane ties not post caps or beam straps what they used is meant to handle upward forces not so much side to side. Look up this " LPC6Z hanger" thats closer to what you should have there
Ibwould have him move post to center under the beam and install some sort of mechanical fastener. 3- 2x6 is fine but i wonder whuy he didnt use a bigger piece of limber at least 2x10.
I’d be seriously concerned about it falling and collapsing, killing someone.
You’ve got nothing holding the posts to the platform except gravity.
Those hurricane ties are completely misapplied.
It’s like half the deck was built by someone competent and the other half was built by someone who looked at what the other guy did and decided, I’m going to do the opposite.
Why is the other side of the joists not supporters by hangers?
And you don’t have a beam - just some boards sandwiched together. Are they all like just glued?
Sadly, wasn’t educated enough to catch the wrong ties being used, or any other issues. And yes who goes looks at the underside of their deck each day? Probably didn’t realize when they snapped or beam and post connection started to shift until a couple of weeks ago. Hoping someone here would waive it off while they continue to enjoy their coffees having paid someone a sizeable chunk and assuming they got a lifetime worth of deck built up. Poor folks.
Screw the contractor who did this. And people argue for more pay or freedom for contractors but they keep screwing their customers like this. I don’t think they were malicious. Just lazy and didn’t bother to study how to build a deck that lasts or why not to use cheap hurricane ties in this application.
I'm super confused as to how it got this way. My theory is that they built the deck, then noticed the posts were not straight up and down, and sledge hammered them over 1.5" to make them vertical. That broke the ties, and they just nailed it back. Overall, a crappy way to fix a mistake. I would definitely have a heart to heart with the builder, about how he's going to pay for a real contractor to fix this shit show.
A lot of omg this is going to kill someone here. Is this how a finished deck I built would look? No. But its far from life threatening. They likely set the post saddles centered on the concrete piers(assumption) which is why one is centered for the beam and the other 2 are 1 1/2" off center. There is still plenty of the weight transfer happening as long as the beam is nailed properly.
Also, there are millions of decks out there built without modern steel connection fasteners. 3"nails properly set from the beam to the post will hold fine. That being said a properly installed connection strap/plate is cheap insurance. And required in seismic areas. But the posts are not going to "easily slide out" from the thousands of pounds of compression.
If a contractor was paid for this work, I would certainly be withholding payment until a few of these issues are resolved. Otherwise if it has been paid for, and there aren't explicit plans and a contract you can cite its not worth your trouble. Threaten to leave them a bad online review if possible? Otherwise invest the money in having someone else come in to do the minor modifications to will just make it a bit stronger/safer. But it is certainly not in danger of falling over.
Question is was it fine when finished or like this? Since it’s snapped I would the post or concrete below has moved. And moved enough to obviously cause pressure. I would get others involved if the contractor is not caring.
I am a total hack amateur woodwork enthusiast, but I cannot for the life of me see how anyone can NOT line these things up. It would drive me crazy. I would have to tear the post out and re-do it if that was the only way to fix it.
Wouldn't it been smart to fix two steel plates on each side overlapping by 12 Inches? You could fix them in with deep screws and lock it together tightly.
But seriously, 3 glued/screwed 2x6 are better than a single 6x6. The builder should absolutely remedy but not so sure, after looking at his work, I’d want him applying any remedy.
Be careful lifting this onto a temporary support to fix it. There's obviously tension and I'm not so sure the post wouldnt vacate it's..er... post.. once all the weight is lifted from it. I'd strap a chunk of 2x6 to the post so it can't fall backwards and shift all the weight suddenly onto a temporary support. If you can lift it on scaffold that would be a safer bet.
If 5he footers are fine and the post connection is the only problem, this is a half a day fix to put decorative timber brackets on with lags. Lift the deck, slide them in, lag it, done and on to the next.
What does the footing look like? Post sunk in ground? Helical screw footing? If there is a poured concrete footing in a tube that is 16-24” diameter, you could support the existing beam, move and connect the posts to new spot on footer so they are all fully under beam, and put correct post to beam connector on. The beam really needs to fully bear on each post.
The rest of it doesn’t look bad. Wood cracks/checks. If it was too damaged at install, it shouldn’t have been used.
I didn’t look it up, but refer to lumber spanning tables for correct beam size. I can’t tell if that beam is 2x6 tripled or 2x8’s. It looks like 2x8’s.
Need to get yer money back. Then hire a deck retrofit guy to make things better. Not sure this will ever be safe tho, not without a laminated beam on top of posts properly bolted down with engineers heavy gauge hardware. Wood rot is gonna develop between the 3 2x’s supporting everything… not safe. I give it 1-3 seasons at best… with nobody using it… just as a sculpture to admire from afar. With regular use… u risk death.
100
u/mr_j_boogie 3d ago edited 3d ago
You can use a couple 2x6 boards to lift the deck assembly up an eighth inch to scoot your posts directly under the beams. Then install appropriate hardware.
Editing to add: after zooming in, I see the problem. He used inadequate hardware to attach posts to the beam. Those are for securing the joists to a beam underneath. You'll need to slide something like a Simpson cc66 in there and fasten per spec