385
u/Sozins_Comet_ Jun 06 '26
I am assuming Thragg's punch was just so unbelievably fast that Nolan wasn't even ready for it and wasn't bracing at all.
107
u/SpeedRacer_Mach6 Jun 07 '26
Or the fact it simply just had more pull than the black hole at the range he was at.
2.4k
u/steve123410 Jun 06 '26
The number of people in the comments that miss the point that the black hole shot was to look cool is crazy.
650
69
u/shewy92 Jun 06 '26
Also, he never crossed the Event Horizon.
13
u/catch_hercules Jun 06 '26
He did push away a ship getting sucked towards it though.
→ More replies (1)34
u/steve123410 Jun 06 '26
I mean that doesn't matter in the slightest. For a black hole that small he would be ripped to shreds by tidal forces long before he even got close since he would be under the pressure of billions of times earth's gravity compared to a supermassives relatively small few hundred.
→ More replies (3)83
u/Kinky_Winky_no2 Jun 06 '26
Youre applying literally physics to a show whose explanation for flying is "smart atoms"
28
u/steve123410 Jun 06 '26
This is exactly my point. People try to push that it's realistic or a feat or whatever they want to call it using whatever rational to try and make it make sense when it's perfectly okay to say it just looked cool and that's why it happened.
132
u/Taint_Flayer Jun 06 '26
It's a Watsonian vs Doyalist way of looking at the same thing. Neither is wrong.
79
u/ArtsyApoidean Dinosaurus Jun 06 '26
You're right that neither is wrong but also this fandom is so deep in the Watson hole and we do need some more Doylist takes up in here.
Power scaling debates and their consequences for industrial society...
3
20
u/_Valisk Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
Watching something with the intention of scrutinizing every little detail sounds exhausting.
→ More replies (1)14
u/Cyan_Exponent I am [TITLE CARD] Jun 06 '26
isn't it meant to imply he was contemplating flying into it
22
u/steve123410 Jun 06 '26
Yeah, it's meant to show that he's being literally consumed by his grief as he lacked any kind of purpose anymore.
7
u/lcsulla87gmail Jun 06 '26
Honestly the way Kirkman feels about power scales it probably was to upset them
19
u/BakedWizerd Jun 06 '26
Yeah that uppercut from Thragg was totally not meant to look cool.
15
u/targetcowboy Jun 06 '26
Looking cool was not the main point of the uppercut, it was just a cherry on top. The black hole was ONLY to look cool.
→ More replies (8)→ More replies (3)3
u/what-goes-bump Jun 06 '26
The black hole depicted would have still been light years away from him. He wasn’t even in the disk.
1.2k
u/FearLeadsToAnger Jun 06 '26
Creator vocally doesn't care about powerscaling
/thread
259
u/bleedinghero Jun 06 '26
He has had a few interviews on that topic. Tldr is some are just lucky when they win.
→ More replies (1)218
u/ThisHatRightHere Jun 06 '26
Wow who could have ever imagined single instances of combat with numerous factors at play wouldn’t give objective measures of power.
God I hate powerscalers
→ More replies (1)98
Jun 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
54
u/Timtanoboa OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED THE IMMORTAL! Jun 06 '26
VS Battles Wiki has irreparably tarnished the reputation of powerscaling as a concpt
5
u/starmartyr Jun 07 '26
What people don't realize is that powerscaling is fun to talk about in hypothetical fights between characters but when it actually happens in a comic or show the fight goes the way the story needs it to go. It's not bad writing just because it didn't go the way that online discussions think it would go.
→ More replies (1)16
u/The_Great_Man_Potato Jun 07 '26
It’s bad writing if the character isn’t set up to believably have that much/little power though. It doesn’t necessarily have to be spelled out, but the inconsistencies are pretty stout in Invincible
2
u/starmartyr Jun 07 '26
Set up how? The comic never gives hard numbers for anything. Power scaling is entirely based on fan theories which may or may not be correct. Bad writing would be to have such a rigid structure that nothing unexpected could ever happen.
29
u/BeautifulDaikon9439 Jun 06 '26
the outcome of a fight being “inconsistent” has pretty much never hampered my enjoyment of a piece of fictional media. it’s either entertaining or it’s not, powerscaling is not an important factor in how enjoyable a fight scene is
26
u/AllTheGood_Names Jun 06 '26
It just feels jarring to see someone who is scaled to cities and nukes get beat up by random nobodies right after beating one of the strongest beings in the verse. It's like watching god get OHKO'd by a baby
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (1)2
u/Elhmok Jun 08 '26
Mark constantly getting beaten up by nobodies (especially in S1 and 2) is inconsistent.
it's not inconsistent in the slightest. Mark (especially in S1 and S2) is nowhere near as strong as the other viltrumites, and the show has on multiple times shown that even a top viltrumite like Nolan is still relative to Earth
Nolan struggling with reanimen or space bugs is inconsistent.
only if you believe that viltrumites are only beatable/relative to other viltrumites, which the show goes through great lengths to show you isn't the case.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)10
u/VoiceofRapture Jun 06 '26
Also black holes are only inescapable if you're inside the event horizon
7
488
u/Beautiful_Space_4459 Jun 06 '26
He did not survive a black hole, he wasnt even near the event horizon.
What are this guys smoking?
I want some of that.
→ More replies (1)106
u/Exccel1210 Jun 06 '26
In many media a black hole is just a sphere that sucks in things
57
u/NokuRaid3n Show Fan Jun 06 '26
Tbh people really need to learn that that's not how Black Holes work.
→ More replies (1)32
u/tomcatfucker1979 Jun 07 '26
To be fair, relativistic physics is not a simple thing.
But yes, agreed.
19
u/NokuRaid3n Show Fan Jun 07 '26
Yeah, but like there is a difference between treating a Blackhole as a Object with a lot of Gravity and it behaving like a vacuum cleaner lol.
248
u/Volkmek Jun 06 '26
So.. that's not the event horizon. That's the acreation disk. The disk is not only large enough that it can have habitable planets inside of it. If you found a habitable world at the distance from the balck hole that he is at, you could comfortably live on that world as a normal human.
Once you get to the part where there is no light, that is when the damage really starts.
There is some pretty good speculative fiction out there that shows what would happen is a civilization spawned in an acretion disk and you played with the relativity time disjointment that would cause.
83
u/BaronOfMelons Jun 06 '26
Plus I think it's a bit hard to wrap your head around how ludicrously big black holes can be. The cool ass shot in the show gives in the impression that Omni-Man is relatively close to it, but if we assume that it's a supermassive black hole then he's definitely still a vast distance away, as you said
45
u/IamWatchingAoT Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
Actually, no. That's one thing Interstellar got wrong. A black hole's accretion disk is extremely hot and chaotic, and the likelihood that something could survive in them is very low. And while accretion disks can be massive (1.5 light years wide in some cases), Nolan is close enough to the black hole that he would melt, Viltrumite powers or no.
In conclusion, the shot exists because it's cool, not because it makes any sense. Which is fine.
29
u/Volkmek Jun 06 '26
https://www.astronomy.com/science/could-life-survive-on-a-planet-orbiting-a-black-hole/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/planets-aplenty-may-lurk-around-supermassive-black-holes/Seems there is not much consensus in the scientific community beyond, "It's possible, but not likely."
→ More replies (1)24
u/Sw1ferSweatJet Cecil Stedman Jun 06 '26
Accretion disk temperatures and sizes vary wildly depending on the characteristics of the black hole it surrounds.
They actually directly addressed this in Interstellar and gave Gargantua an exceedingly anemic disk so instead of a hundred million degrees Gargantuas disk was only a few thousand degrees so it’ll emit a lot of light but very little high energy radiation, allowing for humans to get close without being fried by radiation.
More anemic accretion disks like in Interstellar are also much thinner so they are more closely confined to the black holes equatorial plane.
So it’s entirely possible for Nolan to linger near a black hole without taking damage, it just needs to be the right black hole and he needs to be sitting in the right place.
4
2
u/Thebaldsasquatch Agent Spider Jun 06 '26
Ooooh really? Got some names? That sounds awesome.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)2
u/ToasterWithFeels Jun 07 '26
Would you please list some of this speculative fiction you speak of? Sounds like fun.
64
u/Visible-Might-2527 Jun 06 '26
Maybe, just maybe, cause he didn’t try to resist thraggs punch?? He was caught by surprise
→ More replies (1)4
u/SpeedRacer_Mach6 Jun 07 '26
Or simply the black hole was so far it was a light tug a normal human could resist.
110
u/plasticman1997 Jun 06 '26
Honestly cartoon Thragg could probably stand a chance against superman
36
u/Delmitus1 Jun 06 '26
Gotta be specific though. He can go toe to toe with dcamu superman and justice league unlimited but probably stops there
5
Jun 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Delmitus1 Jun 06 '26
Nah, injustice superman pulled a better version of the orbit feat in the movie
71
u/Hun_AkosEloYT Omni-Man Jun 06 '26
Comic Superman solos but the big T genuinely no diffs every adaptation
23
u/Various-Artist Jun 06 '26
Yeah comic Superman is absurdly powerful and I don’t think any fictional character even comes close to his level. However there are lots of variations on Superman and the more known ones from movies and tv are generally way less powerful than comic versions of him. I think Thragg would absolutely be able to fight Cavill Superman for example
14
u/sculksensor Jun 06 '26
Adventures of superman solos
2
u/MeMeTiger_ Omni-Man Jun 06 '26
Haven't watched the series yet. Has he done anything major in terms of feats?
9
u/Timtanoboa OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED THE IMMORTAL! Jun 06 '26
Not that puts him above Thragg. Trust me, favorite series ever, but Thragg CURRENTLY wins.
MAWS Season 3 comes out soon though so that could change
3
u/crinklecunt-cookie Rex's Exploding Alphabet Magnets Jun 07 '26
Oh shit, MAWS s3 was announced? God, I love that show. It’s so fucking wholesome and also still super entertaining (as an adult) to watch. It’s got my favorite presentation of Mallah & the Brain as well ☺️.
4
u/sculksensor Jun 06 '26
It imitates the golden age of superman, so he ends up having pseudo toon force.
→ More replies (2)5
u/Timtanoboa OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED THE IMMORTAL! Jun 06 '26
Ehhh Superman and Lois's Supes split two planets with his bare hands.
So I think that one is a debate (because Star Level Viltrumites are a contentious topic)
Other than that yeah lmao sorry Corensupes and Cavillman y'all aren't ready for Freddie
11
u/ZijoeLocs Jun 06 '26
Cartoon Thragg is probably the only Viltrumite who can dance with the Powerpuff girls. He still loses, but it would be an entertaining fight.
5
u/bleedinghero Jun 06 '26
The creator of invincible said omniman could beat superman. He also said he doesn't care about power scaling. So both can be true.
10
u/plasticman1997 Jun 06 '26
Everyone acts like fighting is based on strength alone, I am 6’3 and muscular but I’m pretty sure I’d lose to a lightweight mma boxer
→ More replies (1)6
u/A_Guy_in_Orange Jun 06 '26
It would be closer than if you could fight but never underestimate your ability to just kinda flop over onto someone bringing them to the ground
6
u/SunWuMoore Jun 06 '26
He only said that because he hates powerscaling and thinks it stupid so he said Omni Man could beat Superman to make fans of power scaling angry as a joke. He mentioned this in the escape podcast
15
u/cefli Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
I just drew a stick man and called him timmy, the only thing timmy has done is stand there but i say he can beat thragg.
See how stupid the logic is?
Edit: dude responded to me but i cant see the reply outside my notifs for some reason? Anyways timmy is my own oc(TM) from own world(TM) not fanfiction also thragg looks at him and pisses his suit in fear
→ More replies (1)4
u/codegavran Jun 06 '26
Yeah Timmy beats Thragg easy but in my book Tommy actually uses his powers to make Superman Thragg AND Timmy kiss his toes while he sleeps, and also you're a character in it and your only purpose is to say "Tommy is WAY better than Timmy! I'm cefli!"
54
u/SuperIkenna Jun 06 '26
Nolan was far away from the black hole. A human in a space suit could probably survive that.
9
u/chronobolt77 Jun 06 '26
If you're close enough to see the emulsion disk at that size in your fov, you're getting pulled by it, at least a bit. I imagine for Nolan, tho, who flies by literally willing his atoms to move, that scene is probably the equivalent to someone sitting off the side of a bridge and holding onto the rails. Not really fighting much, just barely enough to not slip, but still easy to let go and fall if he wanted to
18
u/floydymoiyte Jun 06 '26
I get the sentiment but I think a human in a spacesuit would be vaporised just from the amount of light being produced by the accretion disk 😂 those thing give off entire galaxies combined amounts of light
31
2
u/MHE1309 Jun 06 '26
The accretion disc does not do that. Quasars do which this is not.
→ More replies (8)4
30
5
5
u/CipherVirus Jun 06 '26
Anyone else forgetting how slowly he was moving towards it when he was actively letting himself be pulled?
14
u/Shalanda_Carmona1 Jun 06 '26
Everyone here is currently surviving the pull of a lot of black holes, it's easy because it's far away
5
4
u/Electro313 Jun 07 '26
Black hole very far
Thragg punch very close
Nolan fly near black hole on purpose
Nolan not expect big vortex punch
8
6
u/other-other-user Jun 06 '26
Guys you realize gravity effects everything and things can be larger than they appear if they are further away? Stand up real quick. Congrats, you resisted the pull of the black hole on the center of the milkyway. Black holes can be truly massive, there is zero way of knowing how close he is and how strong the pull is.
6
u/One-Desk-1 British Knight Jun 06 '26
Black holes are far stronger when you're actually close. Nolan wasn't close
3
3
u/TheGreenPterodactyl Vincible Jun 07 '26
Viltrumites are meant to be stronk, Thragg very very very very stronk.
6
u/OmgJustLetMeExist Jun 06 '26
Eddie Hall can deadlift over 1100 pounds, but when I suckerpunch him, he gets disoriented. Does this mean i’m putting over 1100 pounds of force into my punch?
5
u/ItzRuben20 Jun 06 '26
- Robert dont care about powerscaling
- Black hole far away
- Nolan was caught offguard
2
u/spocktalk69 Jun 07 '26
When he was training Mark he said that they can create leverage off anything. Thragg created leverage off of Nolan.
1
1
u/stinklez Jun 06 '26
Maybe has something to do with distance/inertia/mass? Maybe potential energy can fluctuate/redirect with viltrumite physiology. Either way my coworks love talking about it. I love this show.
1
u/lnombredelarosa Jun 06 '26
Thragg caught him off guard while he was not making any effort to fly in the opposite direction like he probably did to resist the black hole
1
u/This_Elk_1460 Jun 06 '26
It's like people don't understand that comic books focus more on the rule of cool as opposed to actual logic
1
u/nakwurst Jun 06 '26
As other have said, he wasn't resisting the black hole, he was far enough away that he was showing no effort, just teetering on the edge of it. Black holes are huge, so it may have looked like he was close, but he was probably as far from it as we are from the Sun. The closest black hole to Earth is about 10x the size of the Sun.
1
1
u/Representative-Fox55 Jun 06 '26
No, Nolan could’ve been millions of miles away from the accretion disk. And gravity is weird with black holes, he could’ve been experiencing gravity equivalent to something on earth even. Also he wasn’t actively flying when Thragg punched him, and was also obviously caught off guard. Thraggs punch as powerful as it was didn’t even destroy anything near by, just created an extremely powerful vortex. And also the creators do not care about power scaling guys 😭😭they did it because it looks cool, not everything is meant to be feat.
1
1
1
1
u/IckyVickysosoicky Jun 06 '26
Nolan was knowingly resisting its pull, We can see that move from Thragg caught Nolan off guard
1
u/WhenIWannabeME Jun 06 '26
I assumed that shot was supposed to show how fast Thragg is, not specifically how strong the punch was. Scene right before that showed Thragg could easily knock him in and out of atmosphere. I thought that's why Nolan looks so shocked right before he get whomped back off planet, because it happened so quick he was completely off gaurd.
1
u/Timtanoboa OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED THE IMMORTAL! Jun 06 '26
Nolan wasn't expecting Thragg to punch so fast it creates a vacuum. He was expecting a black hole to pull him in.
1
u/WesternCzar Animation takes a looong time Jun 06 '26
Interesting theory I saw was that Thragg used the ability to create their own leverage when flying but instead applied the technique to this punch which is why it sent Nolan.
1
1
1
1
1
u/thesweetestdevil Jun 06 '26
Honestly my biggest gripe with the Black Hole scene is the lack of time dilation. But I guess Viltrumites are just faster than light, the way they fly through get universe.
1
1
1
u/AConsultativeMind Jun 06 '26
Long version: Creator doesn't care about powerscaling
Short version: yes
1
1
1
u/heckingcomputernerd Dupli-Kate Jun 06 '26
Are we ignoring that omni man approached the black hole from light-years away and was prepared for it, where thragg's cut was in a split second and he was completely unprepared?
Also powerscalers are the worst
1
u/Carrnage_Asada Jun 06 '26
This is like saying someone survived the ocean because they waded into waist high waves
1
u/ee_72020 Jun 06 '26
That’s because black holes aren’t space vacuum cleaners, they behave just like any other gravitational body. As long as you have enough velocity, you’ll orbit around a black hole, not fall into it.
1
u/nobodynoone888 Jun 06 '26
I like to interpret it as it caught Omniman off-guard whereas when he had a lot of time to tense up his muscles while approaching the black hole.
Remember how on the Ragnar planet it took him a second to adjust?
1
1
1
u/Yeardmee Jun 06 '26
this is like when they reviewed the sukuna vs maho fight and found out they animated him recovering from a full splat almost ibstantly. anime upscale of doom
1
u/Thatone805guy Jun 06 '26
I saw a comment where someone explained really well the power difference of Thragg
Thragg to viltrumites is like captain America to humans
1
u/Princess_Isolde Jun 06 '26
There's so many possible explanations. Black holes can be orbited very easily past a certain distance, and given he was "falling" into it and it was very slow he was closer to the edge of the black holes gravity than the event horizon. Second, he was expecting the black hole, he was ready for it, he wasn't expecting Thragg to pull his arm back so fast it creates a vacuum, and was primary to be knocked back by a punch, not sucked in, you can even see it on Nolan's face he looks genuinely confused in the moment like "wtf I thought he was gonna punch me". If you're preparing to resist getting pushed, you'll be more susceptible to being pulled.
1
u/legit-posts_1 Machine Head Jun 06 '26
Reaction time is a factor here. We saw that shit in slo motion was my understanding.
1
1
1
u/Jotaro1970 Omni-Man Jun 06 '26 edited 17d ago
Robert Kirkman confirmed he doesn't care about Powerscaling.
The only thing he put about it was Nolan pushing a planet, and that was literally out of spite for Superman fans.
1
u/Jaded_Ad_4427 Jun 06 '26
Easy, he hasn't reached the event horizon, so he never "fought" with the black hole
1
1
u/GgEzNoReLBozo Jun 06 '26
The distance between him and the back hole is literally multiple solar systems. It’s just that fucking big that it looks close.
1
u/EarthTrash Jun 06 '26
It bothers me more that we completely ignore gravitational time dilation. When the bugs got back to their home planet it should be much later. They might not recognize each other because generations could have passed. If the viltirumites then found omniman on the planet, Mark would be older by the time he got the rescue mission. That Nolan is able to journey the cosmos, rescue a ship from a black hole, and start a new family all in about 6 months Mark time doesn't make sense under physics.
Also I need to question the circumstances how they got in this situation in the first place. Black holes aren't actually a gravitational hazard at normal distances. You can safely orbit them like a star or planet. A flyby of a blackhole will probably kick you out with greater speed than you approached. To actually get that close you would need to spend an enormous amount of propellant to kill any relative motion. It seems like something that can only happen intentionally.
1
u/Younes_jabanase Jun 06 '26
Well if your are standing on the edge of a skyscraper you dont fall
But if one stair step is a bit lower you do fall
1
1
1
u/UniversityStrong5725 Jun 06 '26
Physicist monkey here to explain. Nolan not past big scary black sphere. Nolan safe from “event horizon” and “spaghettification” by virtue of superluminal flight. Nolan not safe from Thragg fist. Nolan apply no force or resistance to counteract force.
1
1
1
u/Dark-Specter Abraham Lincoln Jun 07 '26
IF YOU ARE AT A POINT WHERE YOU CAN STILL SEE THE BLACK HOLE, YOU ARE NOT STRONGER THAN A BLACK HOLE OR FASTER THAN LIGHT WHEN YOU ESCAPE IT.
1
1
1
u/DesparateLurker Jun 07 '26
I mean the Ragnar could also damage him and those bitches survived being frozen solid and flying through space for who knows how long with no visible way to give them oxygen.
Shit in this universe is just built different.
6.2k
u/Newliesaladdos Jun 06 '26
BLACK HOLE FAR AWAY
THRAGG CLOSE