Tefila Le'Ani sung emotionally during disengagement operation in Gush Katif 2005

[u/c9joe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhVOiw6at3Y

[u/anon755qubwe]

One day ppl will have enough courage to speak openly on how this was blatant ethnic cleansing and yet the world even their own country loudly applauded and cheered it on.

Only to be repaid back decades later with the deadliest single day for the Jewish ppl since the Shoah.

For shame.

[u/ZuluIsNumberOne → u/anon755qubwe]

around 300 soldiers dead protecting 8000 jews in gush katif (67-05)
around 20 officers dead(67-05)
nearly 10bn spent since 67-05 just on defense spending surrounding that minority community in gush katif and almost 2000 wounded soldiers during that time frame.
Unnecessary loss for no gain in any way
the only mistake in leaving gaza in 05 was not installing leadership we can control or monitor who would not radicalize as we saw happened.

[u/bakochba → u/ZuluIsNumberOne]

So tired of the whole country existing only to serve settlers and Haridim

[u/ZuluIsNumberOne → u/bakochba]

i want to live in an Israel where people don't look down on you for being the wrong kind of Jew. I'd support seperation of church and state or synagogue and state in our casw

[u/bakochba → u/ZuluIsNumberOne]

Our country has been hit with eshitification unfortunately

[u/ZuluIsNumberOne → u/bakochba]

praying more people are for change than opposed this election. I'm trying to get everyone to vote. I'd Rather a bad vote than somebody i know not vote

[u/ishai8 → u/ZuluIsNumberOne]

Between 2005 and 2026, nearly 2,000 people were killed and tens of thousands were wounded by terror coming out of that exact territory—a massive chunk of that on October 7th alone. If we spent 10 billion NIS over 38 years defending Gush Katif, the Gaza front in this latest war alone has cost well over 100 billion NIS. Add in all the other military operations over the last 21 years, and you'll see that the cost before 2005 was peanuts in comparison. But it's easy for all of us to recognize mistakes looking back on the past.

[u/c9joe → u/anon755qubwe]

The whole thing shows how easily Israelis are manipulated by foreign interests. Terrifying

[u/samasamasama → u/c9joe]

It isn't in Israel's best interest to create an apartheid state. Frankly, it's terrifying we are led by people who openly call for it

[u/bakochba]

People who choose to live in settlments know the risks. Now they are causing us trouble in the West Bank, instead of helping the state they are doing everything in their power to start a war on the West Bank

[u/c9joe → u/bakochba]

I live in the Tel Aviv area and see no difference from where I live and a settlement. Firstly, I know the history of Tel Aviv, for some reason, lefty Israelis don't seem to know. Secondly, there is just some UN ceasefire lines between me and the rest of the Middle East, and obviously our adversaries don't see much of a difference a settlement and Tel Aviv either.

So really all a settlement is, is just pushing the ceasefire line further away from Tel Aviv, which in fact does benefit me, by making it harder to invade where I live.

[u/bakochba → u/c9joe]

The difference is that one is within our borders and doesn't require us to have a huge military presence and checkpoints and require to be entangled with Palestinians while causing both diplomatic and security headaches. Where as Tel Aviv contributes to the success of our country the settlments contribute nothing but trouble. There is no hidden treasure in the West Bank, there is nothing of value that should require do much death to both sides.

You want a marriage with the Palestinians and I want a divorce.

[u/c9joe → u/bakochba]

“Within our borders” what borders? Did we declare borders recently? Within one of the colored ceasefire lines yes, but Tel Aviv is not within any borders. And the question is not borders but if you want a retreat or an advance. Or you can say Israel should develop a final border theory but that’s not even popular with leftists.

[u/bakochba → u/c9joe]

Yes we have borders because we're a re wal country. An absolute miracle that we managed to build with our own hands against all the odds. And I have no intention to throw it in the trash because done fanatics in the West Bank wasn't to live amongst hostile Palestinians for a piece of land that has no value and contributes nothing but a security headache.

My loyalty is to the state we built not the Hilltop Youth. I want to see our country succeed eatore than I want to see another useless neighborhood on some random hill getting us more involved with Palestinians

[u/c9joe → u/bakochba]

What is the border?

[u/bakochba → u/c9joe]

I'd Israel a country or just territory to you? Serious question because if we are a country with no borders than we are not a legitimate nation.

Our borders dint include Gaza Areas A and B of the West Bank. While areas of Area C like Male Adumim may remain with us we need to negotiate and finalize this divorce.

You keep wanting to further our involvement in this toxic relationship while want to actually make life inside our country great. I have no interest in Palestinans or the West Bank. 8 have interest in the beautiful country we built and I'm not risking it

[u/c9joe → u/bakochba]

I asked a simple question and you responded with this strange rant. You refer to the Oslo agreement but did Israel declare borders when it signed it? You claimed Israel has borders I am asking what are they, not for rants or to be insulted.

[u/bakochba → u/c9joe]

Yes. Because we aren't the Houthis, we aren't a group of rebels that control a territory with no borders. We're a serious country and I'm grateful for the miracle that we created and I'm not going to kiss Hilltop Youth ass and pretend that the West Bank is more important that Two Aviv or Beersheva or Haifa or the rest of this country. I'm not going to duengrade our nation into a territory

[u/c9joe → u/bakochba]

Okay so tell me what the borders are. This is a trivial question you are struggling to answer because there is no answer.

[u/kulamsharloot]

You won't get sympathy from people here as most of them are leftists who hate settlers.

[u/c9joe → u/kulamsharloot]

Yes, it is a problem. Nonetheless I will push in the POV of the other side as much as I can when I sense the subreddit is getting a little too lefty. Sometimes I get upvoted believe it or not

[u/flakesw]

It’s too bad we didn’t kick the settlers out of the West Bank while we were at it.

6 times I’ve been called to milueem since October 7th to guard settlers and different communities in ayosh. I am so sick of them.

[u/Idogebot]

Womp womp