r/Israel • u/medwatt • Jan 02 '17
News/Politics How did the relationship between Israel and Lebanon got sour ?
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u/Gewdgawddamn Jan 03 '17 edited Jan 03 '17
What your dad said is true. The Shia were pretty happy about the Israeli and Multinational Force Lebanon (U.S. U.K. France and Italy) presence for about a year or so when they all first arrived around 1982. And its purpose was pretty quickly fulfilled, really. A large number of the PLO were allowed to exit peacefully. And then pretty much every incident you can think of from everyone else really soured things and in a mere few short years even a good chunk of the peace minded civilians just wanted the rest of the foreigners out. And, well, let's just say the longer one stayed, the more hatred they garnered. And that's why the Syrians and Israelis can get some pretty disdainful views from the Lebanese, as I see it.
This is the very quick and very dirty summary that doesn't go into the various groups and allegiances and specific incidents so be gentle with the criticism.
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Jan 03 '17
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u/Gewdgawddamn Jan 03 '17
It's kind of fucked up to say but the high profile assassination of Hariri really proved beneficial to getting Bashar to call for the exit. Who knows just how wrecked Lebanon would be with an even bigger spillover had Syria remained when the Arab Spring began and the Syrian Civil War kicked off. It was a good ten year run of Bashar convincing the world he wasn't Hafez-lite but that ended swiftly.
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u/TheNoobArser בנימין נתניהו פעיל המפלגה הדמוקרטית Jan 03 '17
As for your question about what made Israeli - Lebanese relations what they are today, Israel allied with the Christian faction in their civil war (which preformed several massacres, some in areas that were near Israeli controlled areas), Israel also occupied south Lebanon until 2000 and had several operations and wars in Lebanon.
Of course, Lebanon housed some of the PLO and now the Hezbollah so both sides have their reasons to be angry at each other.
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u/daudder Jan 03 '17 edited Jan 03 '17
To loosely quote B Michael, writing about Lebanon 1 around the time it all went tits-up, the Lebanese simply knew that soldiers go well with rice. Had watermelons invaded Lebanon, they would have greeted them with feta cheese.
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The role of Israel in Lebanon can only be viewed in the context of the Lebanese civil war. You provided no input on your dad's disposition regarding the civil war, so your question lacks context.
That said, it is in fact true that some Lebanese welcomed the Israeli invaders back in Lebanon I, since they were there to fight the Palestinians and their allies in the civil war so the other side liked them.
However, Lebanon as a state has never made a peace treaty with Israel, is considered a belligerent state and a very significant part of the state, population and political organizations have always been as anti-Israel (or anti-Zionist) as any in the Arab world.
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Jan 03 '17
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Jan 03 '17
during the civil, people were getting killed left and right on checkpoints if your ID indicates you belonged to a different religion different from those serving at the checkpoints
This is sad but true, a simple test that was used was how the person being interrogated pronounced the word tomato in Arabic.
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u/esmith4321 Jan 03 '17
I'm from Montreal in Canada. The Christian Lebanese, like through much of South America, are extremely successful.
Let me tell you a fast anecdote. I know a smart guy, young dude like myself who was liberated as a child by the Israelis. He loves Israel and the Jewish people in general. But if you ask him to take on clients - and he works with extremely high net worth clients managing their funds and life insurance - he'll never take on a Muslim client.
In fact that's basically true of all Lebanese Christians here in Montreal today (those who left immediately after liberation) - they're not big fans of Islam.
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Jan 03 '17
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u/Olivedoggy Israel Jan 04 '17
It explains that there were very polarized factions, and it makes sense that one of them liked Israel and the other didn't.
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Jan 03 '17
Haminai found himself some nice allies who happened to be shias as well, people didn't start feeling comfort with the IDF creeping all over South Lebanon and Hezbollah got itself a sponser. That's the only reason I can think about them hating us, I've got zero idea why do they want to go to war against us.
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u/idan5 Jan 02 '17
It's not really hard to believe, my uncle who served there told me the exact same thing (about the rice and the warm welcome by almost everybody). Maybe those Lebanese realized that the PLO and Syria are using Lebanon as their own platform for carrying out attacks, and didn't want anything to do with it.
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Jan 02 '17
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u/idan5 Jan 03 '17
To be honest i'm not sure. Could be Iranian involvement and influence in Lebanon..
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u/scisslizz Jan 04 '17
The PLO turning southern Lebanon into a "state within a state," and using it to provoke Israel into attacking Lebanese civilians who were used as human shields....
The assassination of Bashir Gemayal....
The massacres at Sabra and Shatila by the Lebanese Christian Phalangists.....
Hezbollah, with Iranian backing rising to be the foremost faction in the civil war, eventually becoming a recognized political party in Lebanese parliament (and still turning southern Lebanon into a new "state within a state" along the way, until they gained power over the whole country, and dropped the pretense)......
Have some food for thought.
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u/GavrielBA נ נח נחמ נחמן מאומן רק לרקוד כל הזמן! Jan 03 '17
I'd look into the rise of Hezbollah because it seems to me that it's the only Lebanese faction in Lebanon that is actually driving most of the hate. Too bad they are the ones who basically rule the entire country .
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Jan 03 '17
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u/GavrielBA נ נח נחמ נחמן מאומן רק לרקוד כל הזמן! Jan 03 '17
True. Thank you for that . I'm learning as I go. This is from Wikipedia:
After 16 years, the civil war halted following successful negotiation of the Taif Agreement, which required the "disbanding of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias" and required the government to "deploy the Lebanese army in the border area adjacent to Israel."
Despite this agreement, Syria, in control of Lebanon at that time (with the support of Iran), allowed Hezbollah to maintain their arsenal, control the Shia areas in Southern Lebanon along the border with Israel
The way I understood is that in 1990 Lebanon was under control from Syria. Which might explains exactly where the anti Israeli sentiment came from? Syrian government hates Israel big time
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u/scisslizz Jan 04 '17
Not that much later. Sabra/Shatila was the turning point, followed by Bashir Gemayal's murder, the eviction of the PLO from Lebanon, and the rise of Hezbollah.
All of the above happened between 1982 and 1983.
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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '17
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