r/Macklemore • u/Mxrgan Otherside • 25d ago
MOD Moderator Announcement: Middle East Discussions
To our r/Macklemore community and visitors -
Over the past week, our small subreddit has exploded from 300 views per day, to 80,000+; along with 500+ contributions daily. With that influx of traffic, came an influx of trolls, bots, and hateful people. We appreciate your patience with us as we navigate this sudden wave of activity.
We are actively monitoring the subreddit and the report queue, and have activated temporary subreddit safety filters to help filter out spam and bots.
As a moderator team, we’ve thought long and hard about how to moderate discussions around Israel and Palestine. Given Macklemore's clear and repeated decision to use his platform to support the Palestinian people and encourage activism among his fans, discussion of the Middle East and related political topics will be continued to be allowed on this subreddit.
We do not believe creating an echo chamber supports this mission. The moderation team will not remove comments simply because they express a particular political position. Good-faith disagreement and discussion are allowed. We'll continue to remove unproductive, and / or hateful posts.
However, the usual rules regarding conduct still apply. Content may be removed if it is:
- Targeting, insulting, or harassing other users
- Promoting violence or harm
- Low effort AI generated
- Spamming
In short: political disagreement is allowed, but harassment, spam, or promotion of violence are not. The mod team will continue to monitor the conversation and apply these standards consistently as the subreddit grows.
Please continue to utilize the report button, and tag us for anything urgent. As always, don’t hesitate to reach out with any questions or concerns.
EDIT: We want to support Macklemore's 100% pro-Palestine, anti-genocide stance. We want your feedback, and if you don't think the above is the best way to go about it, please let us know.
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u/Azeem259 25d ago
May I ask why pro-israel comments will be allowed? This feels like the same both sidesing a genocide which created the current mess
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u/Mxrgan Otherside 25d ago
Definitely not trying to play both sides - let me be very clear that we want to support Macklemore's 100% pro-Palestine, anti-genocide stance.
We went back and forth on how to best support this, and ultimately decided that by allowing good faith disagreement, we'd be inspiring more education and conversation.
We'll continue to remove unproductive, and / or hateful posts.
We're open to feedback!
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u/Sonnyjoon91 25d ago
Why are you not removing the zionist propaganda from u/Cactussfruit? Hateful, justifying war crimes, denying genocide and actively blaming Palestinians is ok per the rules you stated?
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u/Sonnyjoon91 25d ago
Per your post most of the pro Israel comments call for violence, use hate speech, and are performed by bots. So are they being removed? Saying a certain ethnicity should be exterminated goes against the rules you set out. Phrasing that as pure political disagreement is validating their cause
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u/Bdadl3y The Town 25d ago
The mod team had an incredibly long discussion on this exact matter, given it obviously conflicts with Macklemore's stance. The conflict we as a sub faced was trying to - as an extension of the artist - support this stance and message, while also not becoming an echo chamber.
This does not mean that we will allow genocide deniers, bots, shills or similar aggressors to have a place or a voice in this subreddit, however. We have removed thousands of comments and dozens of posts clearly made not in the interest of genuine discussion thus far, and will continue to do so well into the future.
This subreddit will not be a battleground for political discussion, where comments and posts vie for digital capital in an attempt to justify their respective position. Macklemore has a stance, and therefore, this subreddit shares that stance. Though, this does not mean that civil conversations can't be had regarding the matter, and we're hoping these policies help facilitate these discussions. We intend to moderate in accordance with such.
This is an imperfect system, and we are trying our best as a small team who has seen a 10,000% increase in weekly activity. Feedback is heard, actively encouraged, and applied - thank you for yours.
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u/AmpleSnacks 25d ago
Especially if the rule is that content which promotes violence or harm isn’t allowed.
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u/Chebbzthehpal 25d ago
They told you they don’t want an echo chamber (supposedly)
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u/Azeem259 25d ago
That doesn't mean anything. There's a difference between allowing pro-Israel comments and allowing well meaning discussions for people who want to learn.
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u/protomenace 25d ago
The whole framing of "pro-Israel" as "people who don't want to learn" is so dripping with presupposition and self-righteousness it's hard to take it seriously.
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u/aBoyNamedWho 25d ago
The comment I was replying to (now deleted) stated it started three years ago.
Some people are so silly. It's like the Nakba and decades of brutal Israeli occupation and theft of Palestine land never happened. 🤷
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
This war started three years ago, factually. The conflict is longer, yeah, but this war is longer. You mention the Nakba? Why don’t you mentioned both intifadas and all other wars?
Stop repeating things you read somewhere without understanding them. It’s a loaded conflict, and it’s not black and white.
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u/Direct-Reference221 25d ago
Hasbara detected:
“Both sides”
“Conflict”
“You are repeating things without understanding”
“It’s complicated”
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u/protomenace 25d ago
No meaningful argument detected. Just meaningless quoting and use of magic spells.
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u/Chebbzthehpal 25d ago
They ignore what Hamas did in some cases even celebrate it. But I’m for Peace in the Middle East🇮🇱🇵🇸🇸🇦🇸🇾
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u/JD-Vances-Sexy-Couch 25d ago
As a very vocal Palestine supporter, I’m all for pro-Israel comments being allowed. One, because someone can be pro-Israel, and anti-genocide. Someone can be pro-Israel and support a two state solution. Someone can be pro Israel and absolutely despise what’s being done under the current admin.
I would rather discuss the nuance, change opinions, and even challenge my own, rather than have a giant circlejerk that accomplishes nothing. Welcome outside opinions, let yourself be heard, and foster change.
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u/Azeem259 25d ago
I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you'd be ok with liberal Zionism. Liberal Zionism is just a way to make fascism more digestible. I'm firmly against it.
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u/protomenace 25d ago
Anything besides a 2SS seems to be a fascist viewpoint to me.
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u/Sorry-Cash-1652 24d ago
Ok, how about a single state with a federation, or confederation of 2 states each with its culture constitutionally enshrined at state level? Freedom of movement and residence between states, but voting rights geo-located, which isn't the case now.
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u/JD-Vances-Sexy-Couch 25d ago
I’m not overly familiar with the term, but it seems to fall in line with an ideal outcome, unless it’s seen as realistic for Israel to cease to exist completely, which I don’t see as being realistic short of a violent annihilation, which I oppose.
If it means a free Palestine, no expansion, no settlers, no genocide, then it seems like a good solution based in reality.
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u/Azeem259 25d ago
2SS is not based in reality. Everyone knows it is a Zionist talking point.
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u/JD-Vances-Sexy-Couch 25d ago
A lot of people in Israel would agree with you that it’s not realistic, which is why Gaza is the way it is today, why settlers are stealing land, and why the genocide continues. Claiming “Palestine won’t accept 2SS” is a justification for that, because what’s the alternative to that, other than wiping out the opponent?
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u/Azeem259 25d ago
You don't know what you're talking about and are just repeating propaganda. Stop saying that victims of genocide and colonialism have to acquiesce to their oppressors. If the British lost India and Pakistan after 200 years of colonialism then Palestine can win too.
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u/Sorry-Cash-1652 24d ago
All settler states have to face into difficult decisions in order to transition into something better, and "better" isn't always "fair". India, Pakistan and Ireland are still deeply scarred
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u/JD-Vances-Sexy-Couch 25d ago
‘Palestinians don’t want anything except the complete annihilation of Israel’ is the justification behind all of this. Congrats on helping Israel.
And let’s say you’re right. Palestine won’t give up and can take back all of Israel eventually. So what would you do if you were in Israel’s position if that was the reality? Probably do exactly what they’re doing now.
You’re not helping.
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u/Azeem259 25d ago
The justification has always been ethnosupremacy since the inception of zionism. The first zionists never wanted to create Israel in Europe or America because they viewed Arabs and other races as inferior savages.
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u/protomenace 25d ago
You don't think "hey we don't want to be exterminated" has ever been part of the equation? Seems naive.
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u/JD-Vances-Sexy-Couch 25d ago
You can’t rally support around ethnosupremacy to outside parties. You can rally support around “we don’t want to be annihilated” very easily.
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u/theapplekid 25d ago edited 25d ago
As a very vocal Palestine supporter,
Just to clarify, by "Palestine supporter" do you mean you're anti-Zionist? It's good that you recognize the genocide in Palestine (or your comment suggests you do anyway) but I've seen enough people expressing anti-Palestinian racism while calling themselves Palestine supporters that I have to wonder.
For the record I think pro-Zionist comments should be allowed as long as they're not engaging in genocide denial. Sometimes people have the wrong ideologies due to lack of exposure to counterarguments so I think it's possible that allowing this gives people the opportunity to learn if they're engaging in good faith (and it sounds to me like the mods will delete bad faith comments which I also support).
Even though I suspect 99% of Zionist commenters are not interested in learning, it might be useful to give the 1% who are, a space to do that in.
edit: to be clear, I also recognize that this puts a burden on other commenters here, so completely get why some people just want a full ban on Zionist commenters. I personally don't mind taking on that burden from time to time when the commenters are engaging in good faith but I don't wanna pretend to know how the majority of people in this sub feel about it.
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u/JD-Vances-Sexy-Couch 25d ago
“ Just to clarify, by "Palestine supporter" do you mean you're anti-Zionist?”
According to most definitions. People really seem to vary in what that means. I believe the formation of Israel, and the steady annexation of Palestinian land is abhorrent. I don’t believe any religion or ethic group has a right to a location because of some book or belief. I don’t believe any group has a right to an apartheid state. I don’t think religion or race should have any bearing. I believe what Israel is doing currently constitutes war crimes and genocide, and the IDF and current administration needs to go. I believe Palestine should have vast amounts of land returned, and reparations given.
Now, with that established, here’s where I probably anger some people. If someone is born in an area, grows up in an area, has several generations who did the same, I feel they have just as much of a right to remain in that area as anyone else. As a Canadian of European descent for example, I don’t believe I should be forced to leave my country because of what some British cunts did to the First Nations hundreds of years before my existence, as horrible as it was. Likewise with Americans. So by that logic, I don’t agree with the forcable removal of Jewish people from Israel who meet a similar criteria. Given the circumstances as they are now, I believe a two state solution is what is realistic and fair to those on both sides who really had nothing to do with any of this.
I also believe everyone deserves safety, and that extends to Jewish people having a place to be safe. I don’t believe that means Israel. I don’t believe that means stealing land from others. That is a Zionist stance to many.
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u/theapplekid 25d ago
I believe the formation of Israel, and the steady annexation of Palestinian land is abhorrent. I don’t believe any religion or ethic group has a right to a location because of some book or belief. I don’t believe any group has a right to an apartheid state. I don’t think religion or race should have any bearing.
No idea why you think this is Zionism, unless you're leaving something out. You just described my anti-Zionism.
Now, with that established, here’s where I probably anger some people. If someone is born in an area, grows up in an area, has several generations who did the same, I feel they have just as much of a right to remain in that area as anyone else.
The vast majority of global anti-Zionists don't believe in ethnically cleansing Jews from Palestine. The general position is one of seeking justice for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians that has already occurred, which means Palestinians should be allowed to return anywhere within Palestine (yes, even within the green line), and also holding war criminals accountable for their war crimes.
I don’t believe I should be forced to leave my country because of what some British cunts did to the First Nations hundreds of years before my existence, as horrible as it was. Likewise with Americans. So by that logic, I don’t agree with the forcable removal of Jewish people from Israel who meet a similar criteria.
Again, you're straw-manning. I have no idea where you got the idea that 1 democratic Palestine requires ethnically cleaning Jews.
I also believe everyone deserves safety, and that extends to Jewish people having a place to be safe. I don’t believe that means Israel. I don’t believe that means stealing land from others. That is a Zionist stance to many.
OK, but it's not a Zionist stance to most. Even most Zionists would immediately identify this as an anti-Zionist stance, if you support right of return for Palestinians and the dismantling of Israel as a state which privileges Jewish people over other ethnicities and religions. Even if you support a 2-state solution with 2 democratic secular states (which to be fair, is a minority position among anti-Zionists), as long as you believe in those 2 basic principles (right of return throughout all of Palestine, and ethno-religious equality under the law), you are not a Zionist.
And btw, since we're in the Macklemore sub and on the topic of Macklemore, this is not meaningfully different from the position Macklemore has expressed wanting. The very same position which he has unfortunately been lambasted as being "antisemitic" for expressing.
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u/JD-Vances-Sexy-Couch 25d ago
You asked if I was anti Zionist. I just clarified what I personally believe, not what anti Zionism was. I get hate on this sub sometimes on this topic, because I guess I’m not extreme enough.
I believe I technically could be defined as a liberal zionist if we were to dive down the rabbit hole. It doesn’t seem to conflict with any of my statements.
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u/theapplekid 25d ago
You didn't just clarify what you believe. In addition to describing the most common anti-Zionist position as "what you believe", you said "that is a Zionist stance to many", which is like... not falsifiable since 1% of a billion is still "many", but it's not most.
Speaking as someone who knows and is related to many liberal Zionists, you shouldn't be identified as a liberal Zionist unless you support the continuation of a state which privileges Jews or refuses right of return to Palestinians. Do you?
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u/JD-Vances-Sexy-Couch 24d ago
"you said "that is a Zionist stance to many", which is like... not falsifiable since 1% of a billion is still "many", but it's not most."
Yes.... which is why I said 'many' and not 'most'.
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u/Sorry-Cash-1652 25d ago
Absolutely agree with you on this. The people of Israel and the Occupied Territories will need to face into some very difficult decisions if this is going to get better. The current government of Israel is doing everything it can to make sure this can't happen. The outlook for Israelis trying to make positive change come about must look pretty bleak at the moment, but they are definitely around.
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u/Shoddy-Prune-5877 25d ago
Stop youre being too nuanced. We only want the full throated destruction of Jews who happened to be born in a country in this subreddit bud. /s
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u/Meowlurophile 25d ago
There is no nuance here. This is so blak and white it's comical
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u/Shoddy-Prune-5877 25d ago
Didn't you say that you want to ban pro-Israel people from here while simultaneously saying they need to leave their echo chamber?
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u/Meowlurophile 25d ago
I didn't say that they needed to leave their echochamber. I just want them out
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u/Sorry-Cash-1652 24d ago
Why should I explain this to you in my own words when many Jewish genocide experts can do this with more authority?
A significant number of Jewish scholars, particularly those specializing in Holocaust and genocide studies, have concluded that Israel's military campaign in Gaza constitutes genocide. Their conclusions are based on their professional expertise in identifying the legal and sociological markers of genocide, and many describe reaching this conclusion as a difficult but inescapable professional and moral duty.
Prominent Jewish Scholars and their Conclusions:
Omer Bartov (Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Brown University) is perhaps the most prominent voice. An Israeli-American and former IDF soldier, he initially resisted the label. In July 2025, he published a landmark essay in The New York Times stating his "inescapable conclusion… [is] that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people," arguing that he can "recognize one when I see one" after a quarter-century of teaching the subject.
Raz Segal (Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Stockton University) was one of the earliest scholars to raise the alarm, publishing a viral essay titled "A Textbook Case of Genocide" in Jewish Currents shortly after October 7, 2023. He has since faced professional repercussions, receiving a $250,000 settlement from the University of Minnesota after it rescinded a job offer over his views.
Amos Goldberg (Professor of Holocaust History, Hebrew University of Jerusalem) was among the first Israeli scholars to accuse his country of genocide, writing in April 2024 that "Yes, it is genocide in Gaza". He argues that "Gaza does not exist anymore" due to the systematic destruction of civilian life.
Avi Shlaim (Emeritus Professor of International Relations, University of Oxford) has authored the book Genocide in Gaza: Israel's Long War on Palestine, arguing that Israel's actions are not an anomaly but the culmination of a long-term policy.
Lee Mordechai (Historian, Hebrew University of Jerusalem) initially did not believe the term applied but changed his mind as he documented evidence of war crimes, stating, "This is genocide" in December 2024.
Daniel Blatman and Shmuel Lederman are also consistently cited alongside the above scholars as Israeli Holocaust and genocide researchers who have identified Israel's actions as genocide.
Institutional and legal voices:
Beyond individual scholars, the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) passed a resolution in September 2025 stating that "Israel's policies and actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of genocide." The resolution passed with 86% support among voting members.
In the legal realm, Omer Shatz, an Israeli law professor, has filed a landmark case at the International Criminal Court (ICC) focusing on establishing a pattern of incitement to genocide by Israeli officials, a different legal tack than directly accusing them of the crime itself.
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u/TrackerOneA 25d ago
EDIT: We want to support Macklemore's 100% pro-Palestine, anti-genocide stance.
Please do.
Too many people are cowards about this, and the genocide is still happening.
With our tax dollars and diplomatic support for apartheid Israel.
Don't give in to false & weaponized accusations of antisemitism.
There is a MASSIVE pro-Israel bot campaign all over social media.
They are spamming everywhere and one tactic they use is 'rules-lawyering' (e.g. akin to concern trolling) in order to censor speech.
Please don't fall for it.
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u/TrackerOneA 25d ago
I call out censorship by pro-Israel bots.
The intention of pro-Israel astroturfing is to distract & defame.
Literally, in some cases, this is the MO of Israeli tech companies.
Like Black Core:
🔴"Distraction campaigns during critical moments"
🔴"Coordinated reporting of policy violations"
🔴"Comment section dominance on news coverage"
None of us are obligated to humor pro-Israel trolls and bots.
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
You sound like a bot to me, with these links I didn’t ask for.
I was accused many times of being a bot, or being paid, because apparently there isn’t an option in y’all’s world to simply have a different opinion. You’re expecting the mods to delete comments that don’t fit your narrative, and that’s censoring. At least own it.
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u/TrackerOneA 25d ago
I don't care what you think.
I know what I've seen and there is plenty of news coverage of pro-Israel astroturfing campaigns and online manipulation.
I fully expect actual pro-Israel users to deny this or downplay it, just like they deny or downplay Israeli war crimes.
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u/AmpleSnacks 25d ago
Hi, since you are asking for feedback: appreciate that you are navigating a tricky situation. I would echo other users here that you please reconsider allowing both sides. It runs counter to your own rule that comments promoting harm or violence are not allowed. If comments are in support of an ethnostate, that is by definition promoting harm and violence. The rules would not be internally logical or coherent. Thank you for your consideration.
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u/MaxPower2x 25d ago
100%.
There's absolutely no reason to have pro-Israel accounts in here. There's a thousand and one other subreddits for people to go debate Zionists if that's what they truly want.
Any form of tolerance for such accounts will just be abused by the bots, shills and trolls to disrupt the community.
And as seen in the comments on this post it's contrary to what genuine members of the subreddit and actual Macklemore fans want.
The only comments on here actually supporting it are the same pro-Israel accounts that have spent the last several days spamming the subreddit with pro-genocide propaganda.
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u/Educational_Idea997 24d ago
Yes, no pro-Israel accounts here , but yeah! more Jew hater subs on reddit.
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u/protomenace 25d ago
That's ridiculous. If someone says "I want there to be a peaceful two state solution" how is that promoting harm or violence in any way? This feel disingenuous.
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u/AmpleSnacks 25d ago
Because when one of the states is an ethnostate it is promoting harm and violence. You can say all you want that you desire it to exist peacefully, but to promote its existence is to promote the violence by which it maintains its existence and ethnic majority/superiority.
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
Israel is factually a secular democracy, btw. That’s exactly part of the propaganda that’s being shared online.
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u/AmpleSnacks 25d ago
Cool. What’s its flag btw?
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
What does the flag have to do with anything? 😂
Is Sweden an etho state because it has a cross on its flag? Is Norway? England? Switzerland? Should I go on? 🇳🇴🏴🇨🇭🇩🇰🇫🇮 Not to mention the flags with the Islamic symbol. But I don’t know enough to say jd they are secular democracies or not. And I think I made my point clear.
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u/protomenace 25d ago
For someone who complained about "logical coherence" above, they sure don't seem to care about it whatsoever when it suits them.
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u/protomenace 25d ago edited 25d ago
What's the flag of:
- The UK
- England
- Denmark
- Greece
- Finland
- Iceland
- Ireland
- Spain
Are these not secular democracies?
Is the level of discourse actually this low now?Edit: blocked me simply for disagreeing and making logical arguments. Why are so many people literally incapable of handling civil discourse and disagreement? Their flag argument was shown to be wrong.
To respond to their reponse - Most of these countries have some form of jus sanguinis. Israel is by no means unique in that. None of these complaints make any sense.
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u/AmpleSnacks 25d ago
Which of those countries has birthright and converting to Judaism to become a citizen? This is why I can’t with trolls. Blocked.
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u/protomenace 25d ago
Israel is significantly less of an ethnostate than the vast majority of countries in the world. This is again, a disingenuous argument.
You are making an unfounded and insane logical leap to justify a position which has no basis in fact.
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u/Meowlurophile 25d ago
Hey mods.
Idk how else to phrase this, but would you please consider banning pro Israel comments. Idk you but you already seem better like better people than Ed Sheeran, this feels like it's both sides stuff.
Not hating or attacking because I love this sub but frankly I have had enough of Zionists online
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u/Bdadl3y The Town 25d ago
Copied from an above response:
The mod team had an incredibly long discussion on this exact matter, given it obviously conflicts with Macklemore's stance. The conflict we as a sub faced was trying to - as an extension of the artist - support this stance and message, while also not becoming an echo chamber.
This does not mean that we will allow genocide deniers, bots, shills or similar aggressors to have a place or a voice in this subreddit, however. We have removed thousands of comments and dozens of posts clearly made not in the interest of genuine discussion thus far, and will continue to do so well into the future.
This subreddit will not be a battleground for political discussion, where comments and posts vie for digital capital in an attempt to justify their respective position. Macklemore has a stance, and therefore, this subreddit shares that stance. Though, this does not mean that civil conversations can't be had regarding the matter, and we're hoping these policies help facilitate these discussions. We intend to moderate in accordance with such.
This is an imperfect system, and we are trying our best as a small team who has seen a 10,000% increase in weekly activity. Feedback is heard, actively encouraged, and applied - thank you for yours.
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u/iammadeofawesome 20d ago
I would rather have an echo chamber than constant trolls and arguments like this entire thread.
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u/protomenace 25d ago
"pleaaaaaase turn this into yet another propaganda echo chamber pleeeeeease"
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u/carmodydug 25d ago
Nobody wants to hear israeli lies anymore. In case we ever miss your genocidal bs, we can just tune into any of the zio owned news outlets
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u/protomenace 25d ago
By the way "zio" is a neonazi slur invented by David Duke. Will the mods tolerate that here under Rule 4?
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u/protomenace 25d ago
There's no substance to your complaint here. The reality is that you want to put your fingers in your ears and ignore any arguments and any facts that go against your narrative, and you would like the people making those arguments to be silenced by the mods so you can pretend there is no disagreement.
It's just censorship. That's it. Censorship is the tool of those who know they have a weak argument.
“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.”
- George Martin
"Censorship is an admission; you only gag the mouth that speaks the truth."
- Pierre Gripari
What you are interested in is not a discussion. You're interested in soapboxing.
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u/Meowlurophile 25d ago
No. I've seen enough of those arguments. I don't find them sufficient and frankly would rather live my life without hearing them ever again. Dear god. I'm tired of Zionists.
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u/protomenace 25d ago
You personally disagreeing with something doesn't mean the whole world has to shut it down and censor it for you. Grow up.
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u/Meowlurophile 25d ago
It's not just me. Plenty of people would rather go without. And even so. We are in a pro Pal rapper's sub. It's not like I walked into r/Israel and asked for no zionazi propaganda.
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
This is a sub of an artist who makes politics part of this personality and you choose to be here so you also choose to hear criticism or other views.
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u/bolshethicccc 25d ago
What will I do if I can’t full throated suck the boot of a genocidal entity in a rappers subreddit? I aM bEiNg sILeNcEd.
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u/protomenace 25d ago
Wow hearing other perspectives that might not full throatedly agree with you on everything is so damaging to you my gosh, it's so sad you need to deal with that.
If you don't want to see anyone else's opinions, feel free to simply close Reddit. Nobody is forcing you to be here.
Why is everything a strawman argument with you? Nobody is interested in "full throated suck the boot of a genocidal entity". I could literally say "Jews are people and deserve self determination" and you would claim I'm a Nazi, genocider, whatever. It's insane.
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u/bolshethicccc 25d ago
Well you are here denying genocide, at that point I don’t care to know anything else about you or the ways that you cry.
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u/protomenace 25d ago
Thank you for proving my point. You are unreasonable.
When "Jews are people" is a controversial statement it's clear exactly the kind of subreddit you want to turn this into.
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u/S-Video 25d ago
What if you're wrong and it's not a genocide?
Are you able to explain in your own words how it's a genocide?
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u/iammadeofawesome 20d ago
Counter to every reputable human rights org in the world? Why don't you consider that you’re wrong and also blinded by hatred? Or is your ego really that big?
Just because your people have been doing something for almost 100 years with no pushback doesn't mean it's ok. You can't just steal land, starve, and kill people. And if the shoe was on the other foot, we would be speaking up. It wasn't ok during the holocaust and it's not ok against the Palestinian people now. You don't get to abuse people because your ancestors were. My family left Germany between ww1 and ww2 because they saw the writing on the wall. It's not ok to treat ANYONE as less than. The were treated like shit in America even though they never held any nazi beliefs.
Was taking their land not enough? Their houses? Cutting off their mail? Shrinking their territory? Bombing them? Killing them? Raping them? Breaking their bones? Starving them to death? Do you even see these people as human? Are you that devoid of humanity? Because that's how the world looks at you. Devoid of humanity. You have become who you hatred. You have become the ss, torturing and killing those who are utterly defenseless. And this has gone on so much longer than the holocaust ffs. I am convinced that Israelis and zionists will never be happy until every Palestinian is dead.
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u/carmodydug 25d ago
You should be shunned not just censored in a subreddit.
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u/Meowlurophile 25d ago
There are views that should not be supported like the views of the zio above us
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u/Meowlurophile 25d ago
Haven't you ever thought that some views are so horrible they deserve to be squashed? If ur still pro Israel after all this then we're done here
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u/protomenace 25d ago
I fully support ending Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories and prosecuting war criminals. I hope Palestine and Israel can live in peace.
But the idea that it's a moral imperative that Jews must only be allowed to live as a minority in another country is insane to me. If "the Jews deserve one safe place in the world where they won't be massacred by the ruling group for once in the last 2000 years" is such a horrible viewpoint in your eyes, it seems to me you are the hateful and violent one.
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u/Meowlurophile 25d ago
Dude. Sure have a homeland just not mine. Since 1948 it's been nightmare after nightmare
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u/S-Video 25d ago
I appreciate your desire to have a fair reasonable view based on your understanding of the situation. Not easy when there has been so much misinformation and propaganda from the media and internet about this topic.
I disagree that Israel is occupying Palestinian territories. Military occupation is when a sovereign has temporary control over sovereign land outside of its own borders. Because the Ottoman Empire no longer exists, Judea & Samaria / West Bank isn't sovereign land and therefore can't possibly be under military occupation.
I'm glad Israel and the PA have a peace agreement that allows them to share the land, but I would like to see Israel and the PA negotiate final borders, enact land swaps, etc and I'd like to see the PA finally build a state.
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u/S-Video 25d ago
Haven't you ever thought that some views are based on inaccurate information and people who are more informed should challenge those views?
A clear understanding of the facts would lead to you also being pro Israel. So if you're "done here" when anybody tries to relay those facts, aren't you really just burying your head in the sand?
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25d ago
[deleted]
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u/S-Video 25d ago
A clear understanding of the facts would lead to you also being pro Israel. So if you're "done here" when anybody tries to relay those facts, aren't you really just burying your head in the sand?
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u/spuriouslycertain 24d ago
Dont flatter yourself. We have seen the inundation of hasbara dressed up as facts from zionist for almost 3 years. What you have been indoctrinated with as a child, is a crime that only you need to suffer the consequences off,not the rest of us.
People wishing to no longer continue a bad faith, grass is blue and the sky is green type of discussion is a poor reflection on your ability to present something that carries any weight. At least a minority of zionist acknowledge the crimes being committed, while arguing for Israeli rights, however, hasbara bots who are incapable of such an acknowledgement are unworthy of any serious person's time.Have the day you deserve!!
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u/Haunting_Swimming160 24d ago
The irony of people who demand any criticism of Israel to be silenced complaining about censorship would be hilarious if zionists didn't have control of so many outlets.
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u/protomenace 24d ago
Who said anything about demanding criticism of Israel to be silenced? Everyone should be free to speak.
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u/Haunting_Swimming160 24d ago
Ed and Kraft for starters. Every zionist who pushes their, any criticism of Israel means you hate jews creak that you guys push for second.
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u/protomenace 24d ago
Every zionist who pushes their, any criticism of Israel means you hate jews
For all the hand-wringing and noise about it, I have very rarely seen this actual opinion expressed.
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u/Haunting_Swimming160 24d ago
Then you haven't looked very hard. Even the adl and other watch groups have been pretty open that the only thing they care about is loyalty to Israel.
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u/Meowlurophile 25d ago
Your comment is directed at the wrong folks mate
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u/Shoddy-Prune-5877 25d ago
This comment is especially funny. Youre, in a roundabout way, telling Pro-Israel folk to stop being in their echo chamber, and then youre saying "but I don't want those Pro-Israel people who leave the echo chamber to come here" lmao
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u/protomenace 25d ago
You're literally begging the mods to ban/remove any opinion that disagrees with yours. If you don't think you're asking for an echo chamber you have zero self awareness.
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u/Meowlurophile 25d ago
I am asking for an echo chamber. I know that. I don't want to see Zionist comments here
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u/Accurate_Engine_8089 25d ago
Yes we really don’t need pro genocide and apartheid shills and boys bots overrunning the place. Please can you reconsider?
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u/Mxrgan Otherside 25d ago
Absolutely, we're open to feedback
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u/Azeem259 25d ago
I think instead of using words like pro-palestine and anti-genocide, the sub needs to be explicitly anti-zionist and stop beating around the bush.
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u/Fearless_Mission9994 25d ago
Abso fucking lutely! Anti-Zionist is the only way.
Zionism is racism; it shouldn’t be accepted anywhere-2
u/S-Video 25d ago
the sub needs to be explicitly anti-zionist
Zionism was already accomplished 80 years ago. Israel exists.
"Anti-zionism" no longer means opposing the creation of Israel. Now it means advocating for the murder of ten million people.
Why do you want ten million people to be murdered? You're supporting Gaza's stated goal of committing genocide.
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u/Bdadl3y The Town 25d ago
I do want to reiterate the mod team's stance that pro-genocide contributors, bots, shills, promoters of apartheid, nazis, or any similar actors are not welcome here. They will be removed swiftly.
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u/MaxPower2x 25d ago
That is welcome however there is an almost 99.99% correlation between pro-Israel trolls and the spreading of hate and spamming propaganda on here.
The likelihood is that any tolerance for pro-Israel accounts on this subreddit is going to simply result in disruption to the community which will harm the long-term growth of the subreddit.
It is simpler and more effective to simply ban all pro-Israel accounts. No one who is pro-Israel is coming to a Macklemore subreddit in good faith after all.
None of the regular contributors and genuine Macklemore fans on here are bothered about losing these trolls. If people wanted to be in daily debates with Zionists they will go to subreddits where that is the specific purpose such as the PalestineIsrael subreddit.
So I would politely request you reconsider this.
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u/SoilIll5975 25d ago
Thank you mods!
Also just a gentle nudge...one of the ways we are decolonizing how we (westerners) talk about the region, is using the term "SWANA" instead of the eurocentric "Middle East" or "MENA" -- SWANA stands for South West Asia and North Africa. Here is some background.
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u/SilencedbyMusol 24d ago
I think macklemore should make his entire brand about free palestine. he have found a literal goldmine of people wiiling to pay for him. i have lost interest in his music but i think this is the only way he can keep his flames strong. Free palestine
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u/Prestigious-Active43 24d ago edited 24d ago
I hear you mods, and I understand wanting to take the high road, but most if not all of these pro Israel zionist comments are in bad faith and I think they just add discourse to the subreddit.
I appreciate the work you guys do, just adding my 2 cents
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
Actually, I wanted to highlight that the mods here didn’t delete posts (I posted twice), but clearly moderated the comments as comments that were hateful were removed. Unlike other Subs, where they simply block anyone who thinks differently (and how many in the comments here go about asking)
If you are not open to hearing someone else’s perspective, don’t act like you are open minded or that you do things for a better world. That’s the worst part of this whole movement… spreading hate in the name of liberalism.
We can disagree about the terms that are being used, but we should be able to exchange respectfully. And my comment will be ratioed, because many here just down vote anything that isn’t exactly like they think - but for those who read my words, stay curious. Use your critical thinking and consider the other side before you make up your mind as if it’s the absolute truth.
Thanks for the forum - make sure you don’t become a propaganda page (and imo, posts about Palestine that are not related to Macklemore shouldn’t be published here) Thanks for your efforts! Peace 🕊️
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u/MaxPower2x 25d ago
People aren't open to hearing your opinions because your a pro-genocide bot.
You've made hundreds of comments on here over the last several days that are anti-Macklemore, pro-genocide and pro-Israel.
You are the prime example of why pro-Israel accounts should be banned automatically as real Macklemore fans aren't interested in seeing your spam.
Nice suggestion at the end about banning posts about Palestine that aren't related to Macklemore though...I'm sure we'll consider it 😂
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
I refer to one post I saw earlier that had nothing to do with Macklemore so I didn’t get why was it posted here at all?
And here we go again. I’m not a bot, and I invested more of my personal time in responding because I find value in conversation and I think sharing a different perspective is very helpful. My view is pro Israel, but it’s not anti Macklemore as a person and definitely not pro genocide.
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u/No-Student-8045 25d ago
Youve been way too active on this sub bro and mostly posting Israel propaganda
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u/MaxPower2x 25d ago edited 25d ago
So you admit your pro-Israel and not an actual Macklemore fan ('not anti Macklemore as a person').
Why would anyone on this subreddit take any notice of any word you have to say on the subject then?
This is r/Macklemore not r/DebateAZionist...take a hike.
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u/Sonnyjoon91 25d ago
Macklemore is pro Palestine and agrees that people like you are despicable Zionists pushing pro Israel agenda of baby killing, so why are you here? You stand with Israel which is 100% standing against Macklemore and human decency, the post is Mods saying to keep trash like you out
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
Actually, the mods are saying to keep a respectful conversation but here you are accusing me of being things I’m not, or calling me trash. Look in the mirror
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u/Sorry-Cash-1652 25d ago
You have denied that a genocide is taking place.
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
Saying that what happens in Gaza is not a genocide does not make me pro genocide. Get your logic straight.
If you claim you didn’t murder anyone, does it mean you support murder?
You have an opinion that it’s a genocide, I say it’s not. We can both be against genocide. But we should also use the term when it’s fitting, and not only to support a political agenda.
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u/TrackerOneA 7d ago
Hi again,
Will there be new removal reasons to accomodate the current situation?
You said you wouldn't tolerate genocide denial, but those comments are still around.
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u/Spiritual-Chameleon 14d ago edited 14d ago
I am really sad about the genocide in Gaza. But I don't understand how a lot of what's being posted here relates to this sub. Yes, I know he's taken a stand, which I appreciate. But it feels like there are more relevant subs to post things like https://www.reddit.com/r/Macklemore/comments/1wwgt95/100_israeli_settler_terrorists_attack_west_bank/
Edit: so the Macklemore sub is just about Gaza now and not his music?
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u/ajmampm99 22d ago
Macklemore made a choice to sacrifice his sponsors for propaganda reasons. Disagreement should be part of the discussion. Otherwise you become just another propagandist for Islamic extremism.
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
And if I may, I want to ask you to consider one thing.
This whole story started with Macklemores speech, that made people in the crowd feel uncomfortable because they said it felt like a hostile environment, or a political rally. And you can agree with his opinion, but there is a line that shouldn’t be crossed and that’s hurting others while you fight for your cause.
No, the children that went to listen to Ed Sheeran are not to blame for children who die across the ocean. And if you hear that someone is hurt by something you said, maybe it’s an opportunity to evaluate how or what you’re doing instead of just blaming them.
I see a lot of hate towards pink and towards Ed Sheeran. They both wrote really nice statements. Just take a step back and read them again.
And if you are not Jewish, or you don’t have Jewish friends, you probably won’t get it. So at least understand that you won’t get it. Your hate isn’t helping anyone. Not even the Palestinians..
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u/theapplekid 25d ago
And if you are not Jewish, or you don’t have Jewish friends, you probably won’t get it.
I'm Jewish (and have even been to the Zionist entity) and support every statement Macklemore made 100%, and think Pink and Ed Sheeran are pathetic propagandists and cowards.
I think it's patronizing and borderline delusional to suggest people can't have an anti-genocide position if they're not Jewish though, or if they haven't been to Palestine, etc.
Like, can you imagine Nazi sympathizers in 1935 trying to tell people they couldn't understand why anti-fascists made some people uncomfortable if they weren't German?
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
Okay cool, I’m happy for you that you are Jewish and you don’t feel hostility in pro Palestinian crowds. Nothing is applicable for all Jews, obviously. And I mainly said what I said because too many people feel comfortable deciding for minorities how they feel or don’t feel. I see nothing pathetic in Pink’s post. And I think most of people who do, read it already with a pre determined mind. Again, majority.. nothing is true for all people.
Regarding visiting Israel or Palestine - people come up with calling Israel an apartheid or an ethno state and etc. 5 minutes in Israel and you see it’s nowhere near reality. You have Arabs and Jews and Christians living together.
Being anti genocide is great, but calling a war a genocide isn’t going to change reality. I wish I saw the same amount of activism for the genocide and famine in Sudan. But I guess that’s not as popular.
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u/Sonnyjoon91 25d ago
It was declared a genocide by the same international courts that defined the terms and handled the Nuremberg trials, they defined the terms after the Holocaust. So the same court said what Nazis did to Jews was genocide have said that Israel is doing genocide to Palestine, denying genocide cheapens the trauma of the Holocaust
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u/MaxPower2x 25d ago
You think people in this subreddit have forgot you have spent the last several days spamming the subreddit with anti-Macklemore and pro-genocide comments?
Good luck with that 😂
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
You only call it spamming because you disagree with me.
I really make an effort to stay respectful with my comments. Also - disagreeing with his political agenda does not make me anti- Macklemore, and I’m clearly not pro genocide. I’m probably more peaceful than you are.
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u/MaxPower2x 25d ago
It's spam. Numerous other people have pointed out the large amount of comments you have made on other posts.
So your a Macklemore fan then?
Just one that disagrees with the entire basis of his entire art 😂 who exactly do you think you are convincing here bud? Lmao.
You've been exposed, it's time to move on.
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
Exposed of what? Of commenting on other people’s posts/ comments? Welcome to the internet.
I used to like Macklemore, his political stand makes it hard for me to appreciate his art now, that’s the truth. It doesn’t mean I am anti Macklemore, and it shouldn’t mean I’m not allowed to comment here. I don’t offend him or anyone, I share another perspective.
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u/Direct-Reference221 25d ago
Hasbara detected:
“Hostile environment”
“Line that shouldn’t be crossed”
“You don’t understand”
“Your hate”
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25d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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25d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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25d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Seraph199 25d ago
Palestinians don't get to worry about "left" vs "right". They are being bombed and having their land and homes stolen and their families murdered instead of getting to live normal lives. Having their access to food restricted until they are starving.
Its a genocide. Even the right wing in the US is starting to recognize it. Worldwide it is becoming the majority position. Israel is committing genocide and zionism is a modern day Nazi ideology. Genociding another Semitic population. Horrifying and inarguably wrong on every level. All involved should be tried for war crimes.
They will if there is any justice in this world.
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u/Chebbzthehpal 25d ago
Peace in the Middle East🇮🇱🇵🇸🇸🇦🇸🇾
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u/cactussfruit 25d ago
I also don’t get why people downvote a comment calling for peace in the Middle East. So is it about peace for Palestine or not really?
Jeez please open your eyes..
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u/ProfessionalHold7347 25d ago
Free Palestine