r/Metroid • u/MCPShephard • Feb 24 '26
Discussion Metroid Prime 1, 2, and 3 senior designer Mike Wikan on "Beyond"
*chef's kiss*
Figured I'd share this now, rather than waiting for someone to share an unhinged takedown post against him later.
EDIT: If you're worried about Mike talking about you because you're critical of the game, he's not. If you can't accept he's talking about toxic fandom instead, that's on you.
74
u/Ladyaceina Feb 24 '26
this was a product sold to us we are allowed to voice our opinions AS LONG AS ITS DONE IN A RESPECTFUL MATTER
as far as i know there has not been any note worth examples of people sending death threats to the devs or even messaging the devs on social media at all
→ More replies (4)
16
u/Chewbacta Feb 24 '26
I have seen a community more willing to tear down a product. Federation Force.
354
u/peter-man-hello Feb 24 '26
A lot of people like Metroid Prime 4, or atleast liked it as a 7-8/10 game.
The internet (and social platforms) seem to put a megaphone next to any negativity. So a games flaws will be blasted across the internet.
97
u/TheMusicalHobbit Feb 24 '26
I enjoyed playing it. Didn't like the driving around to hit crystals with the motorcycle part but otherwise it was fun.
→ More replies (1)21
u/Seraphem666 Feb 24 '26
Ya, really seems like they wanted a more highway road like system to drive between major areas with the chrono tower being the original hub area we go to. Like seem like the mines and ice lab were suppose to be more connected and the volcano seeming like it had a bigger connection to volt forge. Tabata forcing a botw dessert along side the bike really seemed to mess things up.
11
u/DevouredSource Feb 24 '26 edited Feb 24 '26
Was it Riza Tabata’s decision or are you confusing her with Kensuke Tanabe?
Edit: spelling
4
u/Seraphem666 Feb 24 '26
Wasn't it kensuke the dude who just left who was responsible for the bike. Thats what I read. Pretty sure it was him
8
u/DevouredSource Feb 24 '26
Well he left officially recently.
From what I can recall from a Nintendo Forecast video Kensuke Tanabe was the one behind the bike and he panicked a bit when Zelda BotW added a bike in its DLC. Regardless he pressed on and named his bike after the viola.
Kensuke Tanabe was also responsible for the “press the button” ending which he intended as similar to Link’s Awakening which he had worked on in the past.
→ More replies (8)6
u/Seraphem666 Feb 24 '26
Ya the bike not a bad idea, open world dessert was the bad idea. Should have been a highway system with area starting to be made more natural(lore mentions they relived the went to tech and had started to go back to nature) chrino tower be the hub with a highway network leading to the main areas sorta like fusion. With some facilities to explore along the way
Edit: bike work as a ship replacement to get to areas and give a bigger world feel but was executed wrong
4
u/Past_Dingo5167 Feb 24 '26
I Liked It When I Commited Vehicular Manslaughter On The Grievers And The Robots That Were Trying To Kill Me
4
u/Seraphem666 Feb 24 '26
Bike wasn't bad just sooo much is tedious and drawn out. I liked it but felt it could have been done alot better. Like making it's main use getting between areas like fusion but on a highway system with some facility to explore along it. Also chrono tower be the hub with it opening up more as you progress through the game
10
u/Stellar_Impulse Feb 24 '26
Its all about the immense expectations the game had. The long awaited sequel to one of the most critically acclaimed trilogies of all time, which was announced along with the switch, then had a development reboot along the way. So yeah, anything short of great was going to be met with overwhelming negativity.
→ More replies (7)9
u/nrthrnlad Feb 24 '26
The internet (and social platforms) seem to put a megaphone next to any negativity. ^ this. This. This. 💯 x This.
I was just talking about this regarding a song being trashed by “fans” of the artist. There is so much hate for content of any kind, it’s a wonder people enjoy anything.
Did I love MP4 compared to earlier editions? No. Was it fun? Yes. Am I hoping for another sequel? Yes.
104
u/DiabUK Feb 24 '26
It's a game with extremely impressive visual design but it fails as a metroid title, of course it'll get flak from players.
→ More replies (1)11
u/personalhale Feb 24 '26
Extremely impressive visual design is a huge stretch. Yeah, the intro jungle level looked great for what it is but the rest of the game is just barren design with very little going on. It just looks like a generic PS3 era shooter.
14
u/greenbluegrape Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
I'm probably one of the bigger Prime 4 haters on this sub, but I'll give it credit where it's due. Volt Forge and parts of Ice Belt being as pretty and atmospheric as they were is probably the reason why so many people were able to ignore the mediocre game design for so long. Saying the art is doing the heavy lifting is an understatement. Without it, the game doesn't have much going for it.
You can disagree with that, but I think the game's visual design is why it's had any success at all.
18
Feb 25 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/Yahyathegamer749 Feb 25 '26
The PS3/Xbox 360 had some beautiful games that honestly still look great today
68
u/No-Honeydew9129 Feb 24 '26
Criticizing a game isn’t hate.
Wish more people understood this. Disliking a game also isn’t hate.
→ More replies (3)15
u/deadandmessedup Feb 25 '26
The guy's mistake was saying "community," because if you don't add caveats, people will take the most bad-faith reading imaginable.
Nothing the guy says is incompatible with "criticizing a game isn't hate."
6
u/fake_kraid Feb 25 '26
Also, plenty of the people are hating on the game. Not all criticism is hateful, but you can express criticism in a hateful way. The way an opinion is expressed is as much of a factor as the criticism itself, and it's frustrating when people act oblivious to that thought.
5
u/Commander1709 Feb 25 '26
Ah, the Reddit approach to making arguments. You have to include a 10 page document explaining your 2 sentence argument, because as it turns out, having thousands of people trying to poke holes into your argument will always lead to people finding and taking the worst reading imaginable.
120
u/Moondoggie35 Feb 24 '26
Never understood the “ungrateful” or “thankless” angle. Like, we payed you for the product, if it sucks, it sucks.
19
u/Jabbam Feb 25 '26
There's a room in Metroid Dread nicknamed after a former developer of award winning games. The Metroid community should be the first group to disregard the takes of a developer just because he's made good games in the past.
39
u/Phazon2000 Feb 24 '26
He only sees things from a devs perspective like they’re a victim of ungratefulness.
What about some guy who was a fan of the series and decides to finally treat himself a new game after budgeting it in and it winds up being disappointing? No violins playing there?
You can be talented and good at what you do but it doesn’t automatically give you perspective.
7
u/Amyntas7 Feb 25 '26
yeah and not only that but like dude the prime trilogy is acclaimed to this day. people praise the shit out of those games. the accolades have been had. what is he on about
→ More replies (3)6
u/baroncalico Feb 25 '26
I work in games. I’ve been doxxed three times and had credible death threats twice because people were upset at a game and picked a name to go after.
9
u/Moondoggie35 Feb 25 '26
It should go without saying that that is never ok. I of course am just addressing it in terms of the sane fallout. But yeah, screw the subhuman trash that does that, my condolences.
202
u/ThisAccountIsForDNF Feb 24 '26
"never seen a community more determined to tear down a product"
Press X to doubt.
35
u/SgtHapyFace Feb 24 '26
at least it’s not as insane and toxic as the silent hill subreddit when literally anything is released or announced lol
4
→ More replies (1)9
u/PresidentsCHL03-R3N4 Feb 24 '26
That sub is a cesspool of negativity.
→ More replies (4)17
u/SgtHapyFace Feb 24 '26
it’s 75% people making weird hyper specific rules about what the series is allowed to do then frothing when rage when it isn’t literally that lol
→ More replies (12)6
7
31
u/mvanvrancken Feb 24 '26
If anything, it’s the opposite, I think everyone was hoping it was wonderful, and what we got, well, I don’t think it was bad, but I don’t think it was great either
19
u/AzettImpa Feb 24 '26
Exactly, all I have seen is people legitimately being disappointed and sharing their valid criticism.
7
7
16
u/Konman72 Feb 24 '26
My face when I remember the launch of The Last of Us Part 2.
→ More replies (3)7
u/Spedrayes Feb 24 '26
Man as someone who has been playing Overwatch since 2016 this screams of blissful ignorance. Blizzard has fucked up multiple times during all that time but the game has never really been bad tbh, but oh boy, you wouldn't get that impression if you see anything about it online until very very recently.
3
u/Pandoras_Fox Feb 24 '26
fr, the metroid community has just been softly disappointed, mostly at Nintendo, from what I can tell? Just didn't live up to expectations, for pretty solid reasons mostly outside of the devs' control.
→ More replies (8)3
47
u/Lazzitron Feb 24 '26
I'm getting real tired of game devs acting like it's personal persecution every time they get critiqued. The Metroid fanbase has been INCREDIBLY tame about its critiques of Prme 4 compared to some of the other communities I've seen talking about a bad entry.
→ More replies (3)
82
u/logica_torcido Feb 24 '26
The game was disappointing. People are allowed to voice that valid opinion. I’m sure that isn’t fun for the devs, who put many years of work into the game only for it not to turn out great in the end. But it is what it is. Just because someone worked hard on something doesn’t automatically mean we have to think it’s amazing.
23
u/Killzone3265 Feb 24 '26
yeah, that's just the thing. I had a good time... but I don't think I will be returning to the game, probably ever.
they managed to get many things right but so many things wrong. I know people like to bandwagon, but I've made my fair criticisms. It's the core issues for me. I highly doubt I could tolerate the forced directions and empty desert again.
54
u/Mandalor1974 Feb 24 '26
Thats a thin skinned take. I bet he wasnt complaining when the Metroid Games were on point. As soon as theres some legit criticism people cant handle it. Prime 4 at best was ok. Visually its great. It has the best overall graphics, frame rates, resolution. But to act like stating legit criticism is tearing the game down is a beta response. For me Prime 4 is a solid 6.5. And that score is pretty easy to justify.
→ More replies (2)
39
u/Cersei505 Feb 24 '26
Its a product, just like he stated, the consumer is allowed to criticize it however they want.
→ More replies (4)
93
u/lml_CooKiiE_lml Feb 24 '26
I have the sense a lot of the Metroid community feels like MP4 doesn’t fit the community itself. Like I just started MP4 and it looks and feels more like Halo in a way than Metroid. It’s a complete turnoff.
So yea, a community is going to be pretty annoyed when new developers come in from other games (The devs of MP1 and MP2 are long gone from Retro) and make a game that feels more influenced by other series than games in its own series.
7
u/danknessevergreen Feb 24 '26
I just started MP4 myself. I also bought the GC controller and prime 1, but decided to play 4 first.
I haven't played a Prime game in who knows how long, so I think I'll enjoy 4 for what it is. So far the environments are amazing, but still figuring out my control scheme.
Once I'm done with this, I'll start over with Prime 1 lol.
Hopefully this lets me not compare as much and just play and enjoy.
19
u/Kirby_Boy_92104 Feb 24 '26
THATS WHAT I THOUGHT TOO. Holy shit I’m glad I’m not alone lmao. Still loved the game tho
→ More replies (8)6
u/Ambitious-Ad3815 Feb 25 '26
I call it the legend of metroid: breath of the combat evolved... Its a lot of things, just not a good metroid game
35
u/QQcrybaby Feb 24 '26
I really doubt the community is trying to tear down the product. The product just didn't meet expectations.
→ More replies (1)
64
u/denzlegacy Feb 24 '26 edited Feb 24 '26
“It’s a thankless task.”
Weird that Samus Returns, Dread, and Prime Remastered all had extremely positive and thankful receptions. Is it perhaps at all possible that maybe Metroid Prime 4 has something missing that those 3 had?
→ More replies (5)14
u/SMM9673 oh word Feb 24 '26
All it had missing was a clear, concise, uncompromised vision.
It was stuck in development hell, shuttled between half a dozen different studios, and had its development taken almost completely back to formula.
But let's be real here, even if it didn't have a horrid dev cycle, it still wouldn't have lived up to the ~20 years of buildup for Sylux, or even the ~10 years since Prime 3. It would've been a lot better as its own full package, but it would not have pulled off what Dread pulled off because it simply does not have the narrative freedoms to even try.
7
u/MexicanEssay Feb 25 '26
the ~10 years since Prime 3
Prime 3 came out in 2007, 18 years before Prime 4.
59
u/ElvisDepressedIy Feb 24 '26
I'm so sick of game devs acting like they're the most persecuted people on the planet.
Customers are allowed to be critical of your product, and they're not required to be polite about it. This happens to every entertainment product under the sun and always has. Game devs aren't special or exempt. They just whine the most.
26
u/BlazeOfGlory72 Feb 24 '26
Yup. They are making a product, and charging quite a bit of money for it. Customers are not obligated to pat them on the back and say “well, at you tried!” when the product is sub par.
→ More replies (2)19
u/uncreativemind2099 Feb 24 '26
Seriously dude is acting like he is doing this for free like people don’t spend their hard earned money and shouldn’t be rightfully pissed because not everyone has financial means to buy every new game release
→ More replies (1)9
u/miimeverse Feb 24 '26 edited Feb 24 '26
Video game devs get the benefit of mostly being invisible too. The average gamer can probably only name one individual in each of the credits of the games they play, usually a producer or director. So like 90% of video game devs will never face direct attacks on them. From a publicity standpoint, they are in a much better situation than actors and musicians.
Video game development is a tough industry, but far from the most persecuted from customers.
35
u/pocket_arsenal Feb 24 '26
Sorry if this sounds insensitive but you kind of need to be made of tougher stuff if you put something out that's intended for the mass market.
38
u/stgm_at Feb 24 '26
"thankless" - quick reminder: i don't play mp4 for free, i payed for it with my hard earned money. that should be thanks enough in this capitalistic world.
→ More replies (4)
6
u/CupPlenty Feb 25 '26
People are allowed to call a underwhelming game underwhelming , especially when it was as long as they took to make this game
30
u/TCGHexenwahn Feb 24 '26
That's what happens when you combine a really long waiting period with high expectations.
29
u/MexicanEssay Feb 24 '26
Not necessarily. But when you combine those two things with an inconsistent product that has glaringly obvious flaws and falls behind even its ~20 year old predecessors in multiple ways, then yes, that's what happens.
14
u/Naaman Feb 24 '26
I just played Prime 4 and immediately followed it up with the Prime 1 remaster. I enjoyed both but 1 was soooo much better. It was a Metroid game. 4 felt like bloat for the sake of making the game longer than 12 hours.
→ More replies (1)11
52
u/meltduru Feb 24 '26
I'm so sick of this mindless thoughtless toxic positivity where you have to mindlessly slurp and praise anything and be thankful you got anything at all.
Nothing should be praised just because it "is" or because someone put "hard work" into it. Work without results is meaningless. They act like if they're doing you a favor.
No. You're making a product. People are paying for a product. Things go both ways. But somehow that's "toxicity" nowadays.
13
u/K-Ryaning Feb 25 '26
Yeah I think the key difference is that you paid for it. It's right to just be grateful and not criticise anything you can access for free, but when people don't have a lot of spare cash these days (especially these days due to the cost of living) and they have enough coin to buy ONE game every year or 6 months, and they bank on your product and that product is a letdown, it's fair to be upset.
I understand too that effort goes into these creations but when people are saying "be grateful you got any Prime 4 at all" I think "no, cos I could have spent my money elsewhere for a better product and historically betting on Metroid has been a safe bet, this time it wasn't"
9
u/TSPhoenix Feb 25 '26
It especially irked me when in that interview Tanabe said something equivalent to 'this did not turn out the way we wanted, but we had to give fans something' as if releasing the game in this state was doing fans a solid.
→ More replies (1)7
u/K-Ryaning Feb 25 '26
Make em wait for decades and the suddenly "but we gotta release it now!" 🤦
Who was the dev who said "a rushed game is forever bad but a delayed game is eventually good"?
3
u/Front_Expression_367 Feb 25 '26
I had already said it before, but I feel like Tanabe only said it out of necessity. Like I am sure Nintendo and Tanabe wanted to delay the game further to uphold the quality, but the development era of the game was already troubled as is, and even more cash thrown into the game was probably starting to get to the point of being unsustainable (Metroid games famously doesn't sell well).
→ More replies (4)23
u/No-Honeydew9129 Feb 24 '26
I see this in gaming more than anything. I respect the hard work devs put into games but if it isn’t good and I paid a shit ton for it..you damn right I’m gonna say it sucks.
54
u/iamblankenstein Feb 24 '26
i didn't hate it, but it's hands down the weakest entry in the prime series, that's just a fact.
35
u/cornimgameplays Feb 24 '26
That's not a fact, that's an opinion
I do agree with that opinion, but it's still an opinion.
→ More replies (25)
66
Feb 24 '26
Thankless task, as if they did all that work for free
9
→ More replies (3)8
u/seriouslyuncouth_ Feb 24 '26
Or didn’t get any recognition for their efforts. Metroid Prime and its sequel are some of the most lauded games of all time.
53
u/ColemyGOAT Feb 24 '26
The game is mid bruh. Why celebrate mediocrity?
Metroid Prime is in my top 3 games ever made. MP4 just isn’t it.
→ More replies (21)29
u/solarxbear Feb 24 '26
This right here. The game is mid, and I don’t have time for mid games anymore. There are too many truly good games to play
3
u/Hunt_Nawn Feb 25 '26
Prime 4 wasn't that great tbh let's be real. I wish they just went with the scrapped original ideal of the game a while back. It probably would've been better actually.
Prime 1-3 are just the best with numerous old Developers who were passionate about it. Just seeing one Developer talking shit doesn't really make a point.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/giamboscaro Feb 25 '26
MP1 and 2 were great. MP3 was a very good game. You have received your thanks, prayers, honours whatever. MP4 is complete shit and deserves the hate.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/Anggul Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
What nonsense. People appreciated the first games plenty, so he's pretty clear proof otherwise. And Dread was met with great reception.
Turns out, people don't like the number of obviously bad decisions that went into this one.
4
u/Suppoint Feb 25 '26
Excuse me, we are paying customers. We have the right to express any discontent, at least so long as it remains constructive and respectful, which I’ve always been towards this game.
3
u/Direct-Function7326 Feb 25 '26
A fair few of the comments in this thread kind of exemplify what the dude is talking about, funny enough.
23
u/ONI_Blak Feb 24 '26
The victim mentality is astounding.
→ More replies (1)10
u/BlazeOfGlory72 Feb 24 '26
Honestly. Acting like you deserve praise for your over priced shitty product is some next level entitlement.
→ More replies (1)
6
14
u/PositivityPending Feb 24 '26
Yeah god forbid ppl have standards. No one is attacking the devs directly as far as I’ve seen. But people have a right to have an opinion on a product they spent the better part of $100 on…
10
u/Boamere Feb 24 '26
His opinion is wrong, this community defended the game way more than it deserved
12
u/Serilii Feb 24 '26
He says it so confidently but in reality the last entry Metroid Dread, a game with a vision, conceptualization, understanding what makes the franchise loved and understands and how to build upon it is still loved and praised to this day. Because, you know, it's a well designed game. I could go on and name a hundred compliments about the game design.
Prime 1 and 2 are called one of the best games on their respective consoles. 3 has it's flaws but is beloved for it's insane graphics despite being on the Wii.
People nowadays love to look for negative aspects more than ever but that's due to understanding games ( and everything else) better in general. We played games for years at this point and have expectations and your job is to fulfill these. I don't claim it's easy, but you have the same TONS of game material to study from, reddit forums to gather critique about old entries or youtube to watch critique of your OWN game as we consumers do and get our expectations from.
There is a reason that fan games are often exceptionally well done with a minuscle of resources.
14
u/Sheeplenk Feb 24 '26
“It’s a thankless task.” Bro you made a trilogy that gets praised to hell and back. Yes, people overreact a lot, but we were largely disappointed with MP4, and pretending it was worthy of the trilogy that preceded it is disrespectful to everyone.
36
u/jfish3222 Feb 24 '26
Prime 4 is the least good game in the series, but it's still a very good game (I'd give it a solid 8/10).
I'm glad a lot of us can agree the negativity is very overblown.
→ More replies (10)12
u/like-a-FOCKS Feb 24 '26
I'm curious what games you have in mind for lower numbers, like examples for a 6/10
→ More replies (5)
54
9
u/roundelay11 Feb 24 '26
Developers are not entitled to the consumers of their product endlessly heaping praise upon it. If it's substandard, or has questionable design decisions, it's perfectly valid to criticize the game. Especially if that highly anticipated game has been in development for nearly a decade, and the signs of it's troubled development are obvious throughout it. Questionable design decisions, cut corners, sub-par writing, aggravating characters.
It's by far the worst game in the series, and people are going to call that out.
7
u/hip-indeed Feb 25 '26
Game that everyone wanted to be 9/10 was in fact 7/10 at worst, so of course on Modern Social Media:tm: everyone acts like it's a 1/10 that killed their family and they want everyone involved with it to be sent to the gulag. I don't blame him one tiny bit.
45
u/pacman813 Feb 24 '26
I mean, the game isn't that good bro. People aren't supposed to thank them for it? The fuck?
→ More replies (3)16
15
11
3
3
3
u/tehcup Feb 24 '26
It's a semi disappointing product that was hyped up for years. The reaction is kinda to be expected. Pretty much all jobs are thankless. I just don't understand what they were doing in the background. They should've known people wouldn't like a lot of the story aspects and repetitive enemy moments.
3
u/wideHippedWeightLift Feb 24 '26
I thought the internal feeling at Retro was "FINALLY someone agrees that the open world was a bad idea, that should never have been forced on us"
(The annoying scientists was all them though)
3
u/phoenixmatrix Feb 24 '26
Never seen a community more determined to tear down a product?
Good thing he doesn't work at Samsung or Nvidia.
3
u/BetweenTheRoots Feb 24 '26
It's important to be critical otherwise companies will seize the opportunity to provide worse products with higher price tags. If a product doesn't meet standards it's important to be open about it and not let the desire to relive nostalgia cloud the objective dialogue.
3
u/BLucidity Feb 24 '26
I'm sure it is hard to have worked on a game with as mixed reception as this. At the same time, though...I feel like some devs must be pointing at criticisms saying, "I told you it was a bad idea!"
3
u/EducationalPhysics55 Feb 24 '26
It's not a thankless task if you make good games, developers who make good games get lots of praise and dedicated fans of their work.
Most regular low level jobs that people do are thankless tasks though.
3
u/Tosamnu Feb 24 '26
When i complain about MP4 (it was ok) i do it because it could have been better and because I want th next game to be better. It's not just bitching.
→ More replies (1)3
3
u/MetroidJunkie Feb 24 '26
To be fair, I give props to the programmers, music composers, and the graphics artists. Clearly, they knocked it out of the park for Prime 4. I feel bad for them that the designers and writers soured the game.
3
u/Farokok Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
Exacty. The issues are mainly from the gamedesigners.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Zeldatroid Feb 24 '26
To be fair, I don't blame every member of the whole team. Just the key decision-makers. The rest of the team did very impressive work given the unfortunately out-of-touch direction they had to go in. I'll give thanks and appreciation where they're due, and criticism where it's due.
Kinda like how Other M isn't the fault of Team Ninja or the individual voice actors.
3
u/Zacomra Feb 24 '26
Anyone attacking devs over a subpar game need to touch grass.
I was deeply saddened at how prime 4 came out, but that doesn't mean that it was made with malice. If anything I'm pissed at Nintendo for charging so much for it
3
3
u/EbonBehelit Feb 24 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
I've seen way, waaaay more brutal community responses than the resounding "frustratingly mid" consensus MP4 got.
I've seen very few people around these parts say the game is irredeemably bad, with mini essays that thoughtfully analyse the design flaws being posted on a near-daily basis -- and rightfully so, as Metroid Prime 4 is a very flawed game, and in ways that are actually very interesting to talk about.
By contrast, go on the WoW forums during a dud expansion and you'd be mistaken for literally thinking the game is nigh-unplayable and the sky is falling.
3
u/nohumanape Feb 25 '26
I like I people are sharing this post like he's being unreasonable, just to makes comments that completely back up what he's saying.
9
28
u/cosmicdark0541 Feb 24 '26
If you want to be thanked, make a good game.
Plenty of people thanked them for the first 3.
4
u/ExhaustedByStupidity Feb 24 '26
I'm only a few hours into Prime 4 so far.
Super is my favorite game ever. Prime 1 is my favorite 3D game. I consider them masterpieces. Prime 2 and 3 were very good games, but clearly not as good as Prime 1.
So far, Prime 4 is just ok. Miles is super annoying. I prefer the old controls. It's not bad... it's just not catching my attention the way the older ones did. The psychic stuff feels odd, but I don't have a strong opinion on it yet.
But if you want bad... Other M. That was a train wreck I couldn't look away from. I still can't believe anyone thought any of it was a good idea.
Prime 4 is great compared to Other M. Prime 4's biggest problem is that name guarantees it'll get compared to the original Metroid Prime, and that's a near impossible bar to live up to.
→ More replies (2)
5
u/sdwoodchuck Feb 24 '26
No game—no art—should be absolved of criticism. Folks don’t like this game, and voicing that criticism and that frustration is entirely reasonable.
There are people who take a poor product too personally, and vent about it in irrational and unpleasant ways. That also deserves criticism.
I see much more of the former than the latter. I also see a lot of people who like the game, and attack those who don’t as though it’s somehow their own fault for not enjoying it. That’s asinine, and that too deserves to be criticized.
Look, it’s simple, and it’s not a matter of game development being so thankless. Folks should feel comfortable sharing that they like and dislike different things. Folks shouldn’t be awkwardly tearing each other down for different opinions, or unpopular opinions. When you fail to follow those two simple steps, well then regardless of which side you’re on, you’re just being some cunts, yeah?
5
Feb 24 '26
Crazy how gamers can’t have opinions these days. If they’re not universally praising and all buying up the games then they’re haters and it’s their fault the industry is bad.
6
u/Bootleg_Doomguy Feb 24 '26
Not allowed to even criticise a mediocre game without devs playing victim. Also he's lying out his ass everyone was tripping over each other to defend Prime 4 to the death and ignore all criticism until that interview came out where they outright admitted the game was bad due to problems outside their control, so I have no idea what he's talking about.
9
u/RazgrizInfinity Feb 24 '26
Okay, I get it, but games are entertainment. If there is 3 games prior, a bar was set. Calling it a thankless task is outright insulting to gamers and essentially calls them 'stupid.' Yes, are there wackos? Sure. But, my guy, your stuff is a video game, and is art. It's gonna be subjective, but if a lot of people are complaining about it, it might be true.
Also, has he not met the Star Wars community? Lol.
7
u/135forte Feb 24 '26
We wait nearly a decade (and at least some of us bought a console) to get more Prime and then we don't get that. I am at a loss as to what we are supposed to be thankful for. At least whatever Bandai-Namco was cooking up that didn't meet Nintendo's standards (which the devs blame Nintendo for the questionable design choices) would have been out years ago as a dedicated Switch title and we would be oast it by now.
19
u/ichkanns Feb 24 '26
Criticism is important. It's embarrassing when creators don't know how to handle criticism... and it's not even his game.
→ More replies (4)
9
u/Squeaky_Ben Feb 24 '26
If you want to mischaracterize justified criticism as "dermination to tear down a product" then you are the problem in this equation.
Fucking hell, current retro studio devs themselves were not exactly happy with the constraints that were pushed on them, as we know from the famitsu interview.
Also, as someone pointed out:
"Never seen a community more determined" Dude wouldn't know what determination/hate looks like if it pooped on his plate at a restaurant.
Try Helldivers, Leage of Legends, War Thunder or any other game that is focussed on online multiplayer and you will see that Prime 4, for all the criticism it is getting, is being handled like a raw egg that just soaked in vinegar.
10
u/Orphanblood Feb 24 '26
Its not good tho. Its very straight forward with terrible charecters. Its getting more of a pass because its metroid. The writing is bad, this isnt rocket science. You can like it, I like a lot of it but the product feels lucky to have come out lol.
11
10
u/otakuloid01 Feb 24 '26
people are not allowed to identify and disagree with flaws in a game’s design you heard it everybody just pay for product clap like a seal and get excited to pay for next product
→ More replies (2)
13
u/DevouredSource Feb 24 '26
It is thankless because people weren’t impressed, so they put their problems into words by critically analyzing
→ More replies (10)
6
u/tommy_turnip Feb 24 '26
"it's a thankless task"
It's not if you make a good game. Bro is a game developer acting like he's a teacher or nurse or something
6
u/KalanKomplete Feb 24 '26
The game is mid, not trash, it has its moments, but it ranks low among other metroid games.
→ More replies (2)
6
8
u/FuneralAbstraction Feb 24 '26
Is this supposed to prove something? What criticisms of Prime 4 are unfair? I'm sure some are, but are any of those ones widespread?
→ More replies (2)
4
u/Better_Natural8744 Feb 24 '26
I just finished Metroid Dread. It was such a good game. Great sequel to fusion. I think a lot of Metroid fans where expecting the same from Metroid 4.
3
8
u/TalkativeRat_665 Feb 24 '26
So if someone does not like a game they should just not say anything? Just in case they don't offend anyone? That does not make sense.
→ More replies (1)
4
5
u/Gaylittlebrother Feb 24 '26
Maybe they should bring back game designers who actually cared about it
5
u/Jonn_Jonzz_Manhunter Feb 24 '26
I don't like how people just assume that people are just negative and hating a game for the sake of it as if they don't have a right to their opinion
I do not like the game at all, I think it's leaning towards the bad side of the spectrum and for a series with an impressive amount of innovation behind it, and why is that a bad thing?
What I find disgusting is how people believe their positive opinion about something is more important than someone's negative opinion about something, as if the simple moral equation of Happy is Greater than Unhappy in media criticism is ever a defensible decision
Negativity is really really important when we discuss media. If someone honestly hates this game with the burning pits of Hades, understanding why is really really important and if the reaction is so hugely overwhelming as with this game, to the point it's all we seem to discuss on here months after release:
Then maybe we need to take the huge volume of negative voices seriously
Who decides the quality of a piece of art? Presumably it's the community and when the best reviews says it's great but a huge step down with many reviews saying it's average and a great number saying it's terrible, then we have to judge everyone's criticism as equally valid of discussion and move from there
To be clear, if you disagree with me and love the game, that is your right and I'm glad you enjoy something I do not, that's beautiful and why art is worth making to begin with. I understand why people don't like the Metroid series, but explaining why it's so important to me and touched me on such a profound level is only possible because some of us love stuff and some of us hate stuff
But to bother sides 1) tell us why. If we can't see what you see, show us what you see as you understand it.
And 2) don't automatically judge any criticism has like "hopeslop" to be fair, it's rare for haters of something to have a bad term for people who like media they dislike, but you get the gist. And people who like the game to just dismiss criticism as haters
→ More replies (1)
12
u/Wofuljac Feb 24 '26
Its called constructive criticism. I just dont like the marvel humor characters and desert. Everything else is mostly fine.
→ More replies (2)
2
2
u/wildeebelmondo Feb 24 '26
Well, their “product” is undercooked, lacked direction and is way too expensive for what it is. For how long everyone waited, it definitely deserves the criticism.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/niles_deerqueer Feb 24 '26
I can understand overreaction from fans but if you make a game, you need to be ready to handle heavy criticism. Prime 4 isn’t what a lot of people were or expecting and the game design is questionable. There are a lot of bizarre creative choices that bring the game down, of course people are going to say it. I was hopeful until I got my hands on the game and beat it. Sometimes, things just don’t connect.
2
u/thedeadsuit Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
I speak as a gamedev who released his own metroidvania and while it did well it was also criticized and attacked quite often in various reviews and social media posts. I've had many people be very mean to it at times.
That qualification out of the way, I think this guy has a really annoying attitude. Customers don't owe you anything. They don't owe you money, they don't owe you praise, and they don't owe you leniency because gamedev is hard and devs have feelings. You're selling a product, criticism of it is fair game, and having some people talk shit comes with the territory. So many modern gamedevs have such entitled attitudes.
→ More replies (3)
2
u/MinneapolisKing25 Feb 25 '26
Never look at social media takes on your work. That being said, Prime 1-3 are in a different league of quality than Prime 4 is so I think if he did put those games out today he'd be basking in praise
2
u/KoopaTheQuicc Feb 25 '26
Fans have been pretty clear about the problems with Prime 4 long before Prime 4 was a thing. I order my burger without mustard and pickles then that's all they put on it, yeah I'm gonna be unhappy with it.
2
u/ManasongWriting Feb 25 '26
Are games art or not? Do we want game companies to keep making the same mistakes just because "someone put a lot of hard work into it," yes or no?
→ More replies (4)
2
u/Potatoandbacon Feb 25 '26
all nintendo had to do is retro is doing it dont have more people hey here have a budget and hire more people but never never give anything to bandai namco not anime not games at this point they are worse than gamefreak
2
u/CRAIGxCHARLES Feb 25 '26
I enjoyed Prime 4, but as paying customers we don't owe devs shit. If a restaurant serves me cold food should I not complain in case I hurt the chef's feelings?
2
u/ItsAllSoup Feb 25 '26
True, the game sure as heck wasn't perfect, but it didn't deserve to become the punching bag of its own fanbase
788
u/crowlfish Feb 24 '26
I don’t envy those who had to make a game with as crazy high expectations as Prime 4, I’m sure they tried their best, but that doesn’t absolve the game’s very real flaws and the valid disappointment felt from fans. It is an entertainment product, it doesn’t have feelings.