r/NonCredibleDefense • 3000 Bundeswehr bureaucratic procedures • 5d ago

Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦 Updated the meme

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u/Hodorization 4d ago

The thing is, such attacks invite retaliation. Which can backfire.

The Ukrainian attacks themselves are retaliation for  Russian attacks on Ukrainian data centers that happened in late September. The Russians clearly did not think this through when they attacked MiroHost, Parkovy, Data Group, Utels, Pautina and Kyivstar.

Let's be careful what we wish for

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u/smaug13 JDAM kits for trebuchets! 4d ago

To copy what I said elsewhere, that's when you do a little covert operations and say "nuh-uh wouldn't know anything about it" when the trollfarms turn a little incendiary. 

A bit more seriously,  I think that rather trollfarms should be seen as acts of hybrid agression and acted on as such, with tit for tat measures. You don't want to start an active conflict over it, you don't want to start trollbotting back and be as dirty, but if those centres could burst up in flames inexpliccably or suffer waterdamage or something else that sabotages it, or if the internal misinformation/propaganda got fought with more fervor, and the identities and addresses behind of the thug squads oppressive regimes often need to function got revealed, and any officials whose secrecy and privacy must be maintained to play part in oppression, to make the nation a hostile environment to the oppression operatus, that'd be the kind of  hybrid countermeasures I'd like to see.

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u/Hodorization 4d ago

Let's say, western countries decided to undertake covert ops as retaliation for Russian hybrid attacks.

These ops are covert, so there's no publicity. The Russians don't mention them either as it would embarrass them to admit they got played. 

Would we even know this was happening? Could we tell whether this was happening, or not? 

And if we could not tell it in the hypothetical case, why would be know in the here and now, whether such ops happen or not? 

I'm asking because, if you look for it, there are actually signs that russian provocations do not always remain unretaliated. Like, would you know it, sometimes Russian undersea cables get cut "accidentally" too:  https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/02/08/russia-says-baltic-sea-cable-damaged-by-external-impact-a87917 You wouldn't hear much about it unless you looked for such news though

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u/smaug13 JDAM kits for trebuchets! 4d ago

That is a good point! And nice to see, I hope this holds true for the discussed case, as well.