r/OpenChristian • u/Own-Cupcake7586 • 1d ago
Discussion - LGBTQ+ Issues A respectful question for my transgender siblings in Christ
Hello, and thank you for taking the time to read this.
I am the father of two trans kids. I love and support them to the best of my ability, which has occasionally put me in the position of having to defend them from others (including my own parents, sadly). I believe this is part of my duty as a parent, and I want to do it as well as I can.
The problem is, I never know quite how to defend a gender identity that is not mine. I tend to deflect the conversation back toward me, defending instead my actions as a father. I can take the punches, so I do.
My questions are: How do I best defend my trans kids against transphobic attacks? Is it my job to defend their gender identity? Or is that something they are better suited to do? What do you think is the healthiest thing for a parent to do in this situation?
Thank you, again, for taking the time to read this. I value whatever feedback you can give me (unless you happen to be here to troll, in which case you can keep your opinions private).
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u/Necessary-Slide-288 1d ago
First off, GOD BLESS YOU , for being a parent with a reasonable mind.
Secondly, learning to defend yourself is going to come from watching you stand up for yourself and others. So it's a mixture of both, your kids will know how to explain their expereicne far better than you, your kids will know the discomfort of gender dysphoria, the depression it could bring,t he anxiety and more. These are things to talk to your kids about, gain a second hand understanding, and lace your argument with them.
Arm yourself withh the word of God and stick to it. Side A is the best side I've seen thus far and exactly where God is leading me. In side A i can ahve a relationship with God that doesn't feel like I have to be adam and eve and hide my nakedness. I feel accepted by God, encouraged to walk bodly in the faith. This will come, if it's not already there, for your children.
What should you say? Start with the basics. "it's their right as human beings to explore and get to know themselves, this is part of their exploration, they may grow to be something different, but right now this is where they are I accept that - you should too." YOu can also get strong about it "I'm comfortable with my children telling me how they feel, when they tell me I listen, because I will not have Satan talking to my kids and I not be aware, and because I want to encourage that bond to develop bbetween themselves and god, their parents, and themselves (yes we need a bond with ourselves; self-hatred for being trans is HUGE).
Then go with the needed to state arguments. "They are hurting who? They are making a choice that affects who? Who has to live with these choices? Who does this affect the most?" When the obvious answer of your kids come up you should reply "My kids are X years old and they feel trans, they know what they are saying what that means and how it can affect them in life. As their father i'm here to educate them further on their life choices, not limit them. They can be trans against my will, or they can have an adult to help as much as possible through uncharted water. Excuse me for being there for my kids like a good parent should."
End the argument with the known scientific fac ts. "repression of identity leads to: depression, suicidal ideation, anciety, shame, guilt, self loathing, and deep isolation among other things. As their father I refuse to let Satan/The world/Life damage my children when there's 100% something I can do about it."
You can also flip the script when you're done. "Would YOU bring this upon your child?"
This forces them to confront: science, religion, parenting skills, lvoe for the child, listening skills, and morality. you will drown the bigot that dares say anything bad about your kids - and they will shut up or get more angry because their feefee's are hurt but their brain knows it's all common sense.
Keep being a Super Dad, stories like this keep giving me hope for parenting.
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 1d ago
I appreciate this response, and the encouragement that comes with it. I'm not the most comfortable turning the tables in terms of aggression. I have thought of a million devastating things that I could say to attack others' bigotry, but I choose not to meet fire with fire. One of my parent's lead strategies is to A) steadfastly refuse to engage in the differences between gender and biological sex, and B) discount "feelings" as immaterial to the argument altogether. As if feelings don't matter. As if feelings don't lead to needless deaths and self-harm.
You're right in much of what you've said, and there are times when my desire for meekness will need to yield to the need for setting clear boundaries. I will give serious thought to what you've said, and thank you for taking the time to comment.
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u/kierkegaardE 1d ago
Consider r/cisparenttranskid as a resource. I occasionally participate there, but it's an incredible place for support for parents trying to navigate your situation.
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 1d ago
I don't think I had known about that subreddit. Thank you so much for sharing it with me. I will definitely check it out.
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u/vivyshe Christian 1d ago
Good afternoon.
I believe its important to let your children know they are loved and supported. You can fight for them and they'll be grateful, but we face so many perils and much hatred in todays world. Of my fellow trans friends, less than half of them have a supportive family. It creates an attitude of peril in our community- even people who have supportive families might second guess the degree to which they are truly supported, because being around peers who are not creates a mentality where we feel as if noone is on our side.
You cant fight all their battles for them, but in my opinion, its more important to make clear through words and deeds that they are supported and loved by their family. Take the time to learn their gender identity, express support and care. Fight where you can, but there is so much battles to be fought these days. Fighting is tiring and often fruitless. Dont fight to win arguments, because its so hard to do so. Fight so the people around you know that you will defend them.
As for our faith, I think it would be important to show them that it doesnt have to be this way. So many Christians bare hate in their heart. But that isnt the only view Christianity must offer. We are all beloved children of god. Most of the persecution they face will be at the hands of Christians, and they might start to feel alienated from their faith. I would try to ensure they have an exposure to a healthy Christianity to show them there is another way.
Thank you for reading. That youre reaching out to ask means a lot.
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 1d ago
This comment is very helpful. Thank you, genuinely. I grew up in an environment where the love of my parents felt very conditional (regardless of whether that was actually true). I felt their love turn cold if I did the wrong thing, said the wrong thing, dressed the wrong way. It wasn't a severe level of abuse, but it was somewhat damaging. Seeing the way my parents have soured toward my children due to their gender identity certainly opened up some old wounds, which I have been working through.
I hadn't considered the isolation that people must feel when their own family, their friends, colleagues, and even those of their own faith turn on them. It breaks my heart, and strengthens my resolve to never be a party to that sort of behavior.
Thank you. You clearly have a good heart, and your advice is beyond helpful.
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u/FarInternal5939 Episcopalian, Open and Affirming Ally 1d ago
Hi, I'm not trans (and I certainly encourage you to give their advice more weight). I'm not going to answer you question about defending gender identity, as I'm not really qualified to answer that. But I do have a perspective on body changes that may be useful if it comes up in discussion.
I suffer from an autoimmune disease that has required 3 surgeries to maintain a flourishing life (most recently in late August so it is top of mind for me).
Put simply, my body is not the body God gave me. Medical science has changed it repeatedly. If this was not true, I would be dead (of a perforated bowel, if that matters). I think anti-trans arguments about surgery being somehow against God's plan for an individual are plain stupid because no one is making that claim about non-trans people whose body's are radically altered. Any claims like that are transphobic because they are not consistent with non-trans surgical intervention.
The reality (and you know this) is that God love's your children and wants them to flourish, just as he loves me and wants me to flourish. That may mean any number of choices which are not typical for our society, and God will bless those choices when they are an act of love (even self love).
I don't know how my argument would be received by the trans community, but it makes sense to me.
Peace to you and your family.
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 1d ago
Thank you. I appreciate your perspective, which is still helpful if not exactly what I expected. I hope you find medical wellness.
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u/Unknown_Writer_or_ik 1d ago
Let them be involved a little bit in defending themselves, they are going to need to have that skill, and focus on learning about trans stuff medically and spiritually, for example "the body is a temple, their transition is temple maintenance" that's a line I've cooked up recently and it's just flat out true, thier body is a temple as is yours if their body is not the gender of their mind then it needs maintenance, reconstruction,
In theology the mind is the soul, [Science] mind = [crossroad] consciousness = soul [religion/Christianity] if God forms us with intention in the womb, then he made their mind this way, made thier brain have the hypothalamus and soticortical areas of the opposite gender as their body, that means that if they are a boy physically then they would have the soul of a woman if they are a trans woman, and vice versa for a trans guy, just some more religious talking points
Focus on defending them spiritually, God still lives them etc Focus on defending them physically, thier body thier choice thier walk with God not yours(yours as in the person you are defending them from) Focus on defending them emotionally as well
Learn about what it is to be a trans man/trans woman from anywhere you can, and defend them with that knowledge
And let them learn too and defend themselves, let them make a comment and back it up, reinforce them and in doing so let them be their own reinforcements
not the front line soldier, that's your job until they are adults, if you have to view it like a battlefield as a metaphor to understand what to do with that specifically your the knight off his horse swinging your weapon at the enemy and they are the archers that fire and arrow every now and then
Let them learn to do it for themselves just as much as you, and they may not realize it now, or they dont, I dont know your kids, but they definitely need to see you defend them too
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 1d ago
I appreciate your comment. I will try my best to understand my children and their identities. Gender dysphoria is such a foreign concept for a cis man like me, but education is better than fear.
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u/tuigdoilgheas 1d ago
What are the situations you're finding yourself in where you feel you need to be defensive? Is there a way to just stop having those interactions? "The kids are who they are and that's not open to discussion" may be your best move. People who are pushing some kind of agenda are unlikely to be swayed by anything you say. Argument may actually make people dig in harder.
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 1d ago
I had told that my parents that we are choosing to love and support our children no matter what, and that we would be pulling back from family gatherings unless our children are allowed to attend freely as they are, without being dead-named and mis-gendered. This did not go over well, and I was invited over to "talk," which was code for receiving a lecture on how evil it is to be trans. But I expected that. What they refuse to acknowledge is the harm that anti-trans prejudice causes, and how I think it's best to respond to those who identify as such. It was neither loving nor constructive.
I think you're entirely right, that argument makes people dig in harder, which is why we've decided to simply step back for the time being, until we feel that a meaningful and reasoned conversation can be had... even if that means waiting for the heat death of the universe, lol.
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u/tuigdoilgheas 1d ago
The worst Snickers commercial. "Gonna be a while?"
Truly if they can't decide to act right on their own, that's the best thing you could do. I'm sorry it's that way.
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u/i_am_the_archivist 1d ago
Im a cis guardian of a trans young person, so I cant speak to the trans experience, but I can share some resources that really helped our family.
The organization Gender Spectrum is great, and they have support groups for parents (and grandparents!) as well as kids. You can find a community there that will understand your experiences as a parent and can commiserate and offer advice.
The book The Transgender Teen: A Handbook for Parents and Professionals was hugely helpful and informative for us. It addresses several of the topics that you mention, and chapter 6 is all about the worries cis parents have for their trans children. There's also a book by the same people called The Transgender Child, which is aimed at a younger age group (not sure how old your kiddos are).
Fwiw, you are already doing the hardest and most important part - acknowledging your children's identities and supporting them. Your kids felt safe enough and loved enough to be open with you, and that's a credit to you.
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u/Azu_Creates TransPansexual 17h ago
I wrote an entire essay arguing against my high school’s anti-trans policies from a scientific and theological prospective. It’s a fairly long read, but I have a public version available if you would like to read it. I also have a section for my personal thoughts and experiences, and a works cited section of course. Also, as a trans person myself, thank you for being supportive of your trans kids.
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 11h ago
I would very much like to read your essay. Feel free to drop me a link in the DM, if you don’t want to post it here. Thank you.
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u/Azu_Creates TransPansexual 8h ago
Apologies for any formatting issues. I have tried to fix them but Google Docs is weird sometimes. Personally identifying details have been redacted.
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u/infinite-long-stocki Quaker 1d ago
I'm trans and I always focus on the idea of 'fearfully and wonderfully made' not just in my body, but in the path I walk in life. Maybe I'm here to teach a lesson or show a different wah, or maybe I'm just evidence of God's infinite creativity and love.
I don't know how old your kids are, but giving them some affirming resources to read or watch, like memoirs, essays, or documentaries, can be a big help. They don't have to all be presenting arguments about trans people, often just learning from other people's experiences gives us the words to defend our own. I really loved 'The Book of Queer Prophets' but there's lots out there, including some stories about Marsha P. Johnson!
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 1d ago
Thank you for sharing. My kids are 15 and 18, so they are often the ones finding their own resources, but I should maybe be looking for my own, too. Thanks, again,
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u/infinite-long-stocki Quaker 1d ago
No problem, best of luck. I found I came into myself more and more as I grew up, and that I turned away from arguments instead of turning away from living as God made me.
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u/anakinmcfly 21h ago
Trans man here (late 30s). Thanks for being a supportive father, especially in these times. I was about to ask how old your kids were but saw you mentioned 15 and 18. At that age they'll likely still need you to stand up for them sometimes, but should also be learning how to do so themselves, while knowing you have their back. But that also depends on their individual personalities.
I'd say they would know their own experiences best, but you would know your parents best. Where are their concerns or criticism coming from? What's the underlying fear? Fighting about the details usually isn't effective when it comes to family, because there's often something much deeper behind their stance.
Unless they are outwardly hostile and hateful and you are certain that they don't actually love you or your grandkids and are just being evil - which hopefully isn't the case - it might be better to try and approach them from a good faith perspective and try to earnestly uncover what's not being said. Often they're simply afraid for the people they love, and don't understand what's going on but don't know how to express that other than through anger.
That's something that you can uniquely do as a father and ally, because your kids should not be obliged to try and be understanding of someone being transphobic at them. But if you can take that, then do, and love your parents through it to find out what the root of their fear is and how you can address that: are there things they are misinformed about due to anti-trans propaganda? Is it because they genuinely believe it's a sin and fear for your children's souls?
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 14h ago
Their fear seems to be partially centered around “trans is evil” (which doesn’t have much biblical support), but also around worries of how this will affect their happiness/ employability/ romantic prospects. The thing is that (to my understanding) nobody chooses to be trans, so they cannot choose NOT to be trans.
The bigger issue to me, though, is a lack of respect. They do not respect me as an adult man and father to do what’s best for my family, they do not respect my children enough to listen and understand their experiences. They discount others’ feelings as utterly immaterial, while their own feelings are treated as gospel (because they’re “right,” as always). It’s partially their boomer traits at play, I think.
For a number of years, I’ve watched them slip down the right side of the political spectrum. The way they talk about others when they think they’re among like-minded people has gotten more extreme. The way they talk about gay people, trans people, some ethnic minorities, treating “Karen” like it’s a racial slur, treating “cis” like a personal attack against them… it’s been a lot, and has been pushing us away for quite a while.
There have been moments of hostility, perhaps without their knowledge (more of a knee-jerk reaction, involuntary), but I would not say they’ve been acting in a purely evil way. Which is why I haven’t cut contact, only taken a step back to let things settle. I still hope for reconciliation, but I will need to see what that looks like.
I apologize for such a lengthy response. You’ve given me good things to think about and consider, and I thank you.
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u/anakinmcfly 11h ago edited 11h ago
No worries about the length! I'm really sorry to hear about your parents' disrespect and them falling further into the right-wing rabbit hole. It seems sadly common as a result of how polarised politics have been becoming, especially in the US. There's a lot of intentional propaganda out there meant to sow division, and in a way your parents are victims of that.
Perhaps because of that, one way forward would be to try and undermine that division. Don't fall for the culture war that tries to separate you, and fight back against that where you can. Go back to the things you enjoyed together that might remind them (and you) of who they are, of the best parts of who they are, and that remind them of the values they may have had in the past.
They must have done something right to raise a son like you, even if not all of their parenting was good and some of it was harmful. Remember the good parts of that and teach it back to them. Love them even if the world tells you to hate them back. Do what Jesus would do. Be louder than those voices telling them that minorities are out to get them and they need to fight them to survive, because that's an illusion, and the world doesn't have to be this way.
I've been mostly off social media other than Reddit, which has been amazing for my mental health. But every time I drop by Facebook to see what a friend has been up to, my feed is flooded with outragebait. Whether or not I succumb to it is directly related to how well my life is currently going, and if I have more appealing things to do with my time.
I don't know if there's a way for you to get your parents away from whatever media has been drip-feeding them this poison, because they're clearly getting those specific ideas from somewhere. If that's not possible, then they need to be enticed away from it by something better - maybe hobbies they used to love but have forgotten about, maybe something you can regularly do together as a family; a place to volunteer at would be especially good, and they may be more amenable to that if it's a Christian thing with a good cause - even if the other volunteers are all conservative Christians, it's generally hard to rant about minorities when helping out at a soup kitchen or helping poor people improve their living conditions, because the cognitive dissonance would be too great. It also feels good to help people and make a difference, and may help them meet more people who are different from them, and learn to see them as equally human.
And when talking about your kids, focus on that love they have for them that's driving those worries you mention. Your kids aren't embodiments of the culture war; they're the grandkids they've known and loved since they were born. All those worries are real, but they're also so much easier to cope with when you have a supportive and loving family behind you. I struggled to find employment and dating is very difficult, along with the various challenges around transphobia and homophobia that come from living in a conservative country, but I've also got a strong network of friends and family, and at the end of the day I can say that I'm possibly much happier than most cis people I know, and extremely grateful.
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u/sirensingingvoid 11h ago
My dad is a good dad like you, I’m trans. He just says “I can’t even begin to understand what my child is going through, I’ve always been comfortable in my body and with my preferences, but to be part of a group that a swathes of people hate immediately for no good reason and still be brave enough to express it is a strong thing to do, and I’m proud” he’s gotten family members to shut up that way, seems to work well. I appreciate him, and by extension I appreciate you, thanks for loving your children no matter what ❤️
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 10h ago
Your dad sounds great. That's a powerful statement you shared, and one that I wouldn't have put together myself, despite agreeing with it. Thank you for sharing, and have a wonderful day.
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u/SubterraneanLodger 6h ago
I’m not trans, but I’d view things like this personally:
God would want you to defend (or at least support) your children because you’re their father. Gender identity doesn’t even really factor into it. You’re their father. Fathers protect their kids. They will navigate the world on their own too of course, but your job is to support them and defend them to a point. They haven’t done anything wrong, and are not hurting anybody by being trans. The fact that you care this much in the first place tells me that you love them and probably did a great job raising them if they feel comfortable enough to come out as trans to you.
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 6h ago
I appreciate your encouragement. I have certainly done my best as a dad, and worked hard to break some generational trauma habits that I saw in my father and grandfather. Thank you.
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u/SubterraneanLodger 5h ago
Hey, that’s the best any of us can do. Recognize the generational trauma and replace it with something better
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u/youhypnotizemealways 1d ago
hello!! obligatory "i am not a parent", but this is just more of what i would have wanted my parents to do in your situation
i don't think it's your job to defend their gender identity, necessarily, but defend them as people instead. make it an issue of respect, and refuse to concede on your respect of your children and their experiences. even if this never changes anyone's mind, it shows your children that you care about them and about their identities and that you will always be a safe person to confide in!
as an added note, do the kids ask to see their grandparents at all, or do the grandparents just sort of invite themselves in? if it's the latter, i would recommend maybe trying to limit contact between them, if you haven't already. my mom has always been protective of me from our family members who she doesn't trust or who have treated others poorly, and as an adult i've grown very much to appreciate her doing so :]
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 1d ago
Honestly, yours is a perspective that I was hoping to hear. Not a parent, but a trans person who can say what they wish their parents would have done. Thank you so much for commenting! Interestingly, what you are recommending is almost precisely what we've done. Our kids are 15 and 18, and have been drifting further from their grandparents for years, so they don't ask to see them. Our 18-year-old took it upon themselves to come out to my mom, and even had a sit-down conversation, which went about as well as you might imagine. We've made it clear that we will not negotiate on our children being respected as human beings, upon which I was very sternly reminded that "respect is earned." Sadly, that made it clear that no respect would be given, and also that I didn't care to have theirs.
In any case, thank you again. Your experience and input is invaluable, and is exactly what I was looking for.
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u/Euphoric-Bat7582 1d ago
I’m not trans, but fwiw:
You’re a good dad and I’m sorry your family is like this. My question is, what do you mean by having to “defend them”? If you mean making rational arguments that trans people exist and that it is not against the Bible’s teachings, I’m not sure I would bother (I doubt they’d change their mind) and it offers them an opportunity for rebuttal.
I would just that they’re your kids, you love them exactly as they are just like Jesus does, and that if they want to be a part of your family they need to learn to be accepting.