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I haven't been keeping up with this but I had assumed that the rest of the jury was saying it was not guilty by insanity, I assumed they meant they were saying she wasn't insane, she meant to do it.
not that they were saying not guilty....didn't she openly admit it?
I have only surface knowledge of things, but thats my understanding. Guilty leads to likely life in prison while not guilty due to insanity would lead to an undetermined amount of time in a mental institution.
She did in fact say she did it, but the case isn't about whether or not she did it. It's whether or not she was too insane at the time that caused this to happen. If she's found guilty, straight to jail. If she's found not guilty, it'll be because she was insane, suffering from heavy psychosis, and she goes to a mental ward until the doctors say she's free to go.
Insanity is a factor included in virtually every modern legal system and is taken into account when adjudicating criminal cases. As a rule, this entails referral to a psychiatric institution.
However, this insanity must also be proven. It is not, as right-wingers claim, simply a matter of invoking insanity and being sent to a psychiatric hospital for two weeks.
It's such a tough call because a mental institute has much better odds of making them better, but it's also so much riskier because all they have to do is stop taking their meds once they're out and it's back to being a murderer
Yes. They’ve been saying “acquitted” on the news but you are right. The rest of the jury meant not guilty per insanity, whereas one thought she wasn’t experiencing psychosis. Acquitted because in any case she has admitted to having done it and this isn’t the question so acquitted of the crime she’s accused of, which was 1st degree.
The one hold out your reportedly admits that there's reasonable doubt about her mental culpability. But that he wouldn't agree with everyone to acquit.
Admitted it. Told her ex to get food from a place far away. Killed them then slit her wrists and jumped from the two story window. That was planned. She’s not insanity. She planned murder and wanted to take her life to not deal with the consequences. It’s ridiculous for a mistrial.
11 were saying she should go to a secure psychiatric hospital (i.e. not guilty due to insanity) 1 said no she should (rightly IMO) go to prison for life
From what I understand, some woman in the USA killed her children. She confessed to killing her children, all the evidence points to her, it's clear as day. Her defence is that, while she did kill them, she did so while in the grips of post-partum depression and/or bipolar and so is not criminally responsible for the killings by way of temporary madness.
The prosecution has contested the notion that she was in the grips of temporary madness as much earlier in the day, she looked up a location, used Apple maps to find out how long it would take to get there from her home, then that evening, requested her husband leave the house to go there, and while he was gone, strangled the children. The prosecution argues that this amounts to proof of premeditation and subterfuge, an indication that she was in her right mind and decided to kill the children. That she planned early in the day to send her husband out on errands for a period of time that she calculated beforehand to be long enough to kill the children; that it was a planned, calculated triple murder, not a moment of madness.
The jury has failed to come to a verdict, with apparently a sole juror maintaining her guilt and the other 11 advocating acquittal. The case has since been deemed a mistrial and I believe that means it will be tried again with a new jury.
Its a picture if a guy who sexually harassed participants of a rally against sexual violence afaik. Basically he flashed a bunch of sexual assault victims while they were protesting.
I can understand people who don't think she should be criminally liable due to insanity. I don't agree with them in this case but that is a rational, normal position to hold. What I'm struggling to understand is the multitudes of people openly supporting her and aligning themselves with her. Just seems in awful taste and genuinely an affront to the memory of the dead children.
I'm sure many mass murderers were fucking mental, don't recall so many people ever jumping up to stand with James Holmes. If a significant percentage of women actually identify with this person and see themselves in her place but for the grace of God I am genuinely shocked and clearly need to reevaluate my understanding of humanity as a whole.
It’s actually horrifying so many women are outing themselves as supportive of the murder of children. These people will likely be mothers themselves either already or in the future and think its okay to kill their children if they are mentally unwell and that the children themselves will forgive them.
At what point do we consider it no longer a go fundme and rather a “CPS investigate these people ASAP” list?
No OnE SaYiNg ShE dIdnT dO iT. ItZ De InCealz MaKiNg iT UP
Apart from the fact I just saw 3 women on tiktok say patrick did it and they just aren't wrong. Because the imaginary "incels" are making it up just like Patrick
234K likes of someone blaming patrick isn't just incels making it up. It ain't just 1 and it isn't just 2 outlier. 234K people agree. The link above shows a number of people accusing patrick. Some are blaming him based on freaking star signs of all things. So stop denying there aren't people doing it or that it is not a signficant number.
Horrible and tastless, but some people are visual learners so I truly hope that garbage images like that open the eyes of those digusting monsters who support that witch.
I always say to people that I reckon had he not died, Trump would have one day locked eyes with him in term one, and had a moment of genuine human honesty, looking at this creature that is so like ourselves, and felt actual remorse for a life poorly lived.
He'd have gotten back to the office and immediately shoved universal healthcare through the house and senate, and set about truly making America great... A force for good both at home and abroad.
But because Harambe died, we never got that meeting. And here we are, at the end of the world.
The bots conditioning division and conflict fr.
If I had to guess, they want to make you mad at women, or western justice systems.
Cause I’ll tell you what man, I’ve lived though a few court cases like these… In my experience most adults check out of the verdict cause Murder 1, 2, manslaughter, insanity… Her life is functionally over either way, just in different forms.
Now if she got off “not guilty,” due to the “woke hivemind,” or like… corruption, I’d give a fuck in terms of societal issue, but I’m not seeing that happen here.
Bit of a weird case. That said, the gender wars angle feels astroturfed fr.
"Sips tea" originates from an anti-women meme, and this sub constantly sees posts that reinforce stereotypes about women being superficial and/or manipulative. A lot of the story subs get that kind of bot push too where the villain is usually a woman.
Anything to create a division that isn't us against the billionaires, right?
The real shame about the astroturfing is that are a lot of genuinely funny posts here get missed because they're buried or because people block the sub when they realize it's being used to cause division.
It does feel like there's a concerted effort to stir up animosity based on a (deliberately?) flawed interpretation of the situation.
As you say, she obviously did kill her kids. Her own defense admit as much. The trial is about weather she should spend the rest of her life (or at least a long, long time) in a secure mental facility or in a regular prison. I think it's pretty obvious that leaving someone like that among the general prison population is a terrible idea for her, other inmates and for prison staff who are not trained or equipped to deal with such severe mental health issues.
The problem is just how “insane” she really is, wasn’t their whole case even in the defense that it was “temporary insanity caused by ppd”.
That and like, she premeditated it. This case is so complicated because it can end in like four really shitty ways depending on whether she’s actually got longer lasting mental health issues or not.
Psychotic people are still able to premeditate things. I mean, a lot of them have jobs and are able to plan their sleep schedules, what their day will look like, entire family events, their vacations, or keeping to appointments. Not saying you specifically are saying they're not able, but lots of people on reddit seem to think being insane or psychotic means you don't have the ability to plan anything. The problem is figuring out whether she planned this due to being psychotic or not.
To add to the complications, she reached out to get help for months. Took like a dozen different medicines focused on antidepressants and antipsychotics. Had a therapist she regularly saw and expressed wanting to be dead, feeling like she's not in reality, and disassociating. Told her family, coworkers, and doctors to the point they checked on her through texts almost daily. Her husband even told her therapist she isn't doing well. She went so far as to admit herself into a mental health hospital. It begs some questions questions: As mandatory reporters, do they share any blame in allowing a mother, who's suicidal and expressed she feels like harming herself, to take actions like this? If she was willing to turn herself into a mental health hospital, why didn't any of these mandatory reporters feel the same or see just how desperate she was to escape?
This case is way too complicated for the average redditor, and I include myself in that. Unless we've all watched the entire trial, it's incredibly difficult to get across that this trial can have ramifications for her therapists, doctors, and coworkers (she was a nurse, and so were her coworkers). People can lose real medical licenses needed to keep their career.
Plus, the average redditor doesn't appear to understand the trial isn't even about being guilty or not, but adding nuance to it means they'd have to actually allow their opinions to be challenged and would rather remove all the facts instead. It's kinda disgusting how little facts matter to the people boiling it down to guilty or not guilty when that's not even the question to begin with
The premeditation is tricky, because you premeditate most things as a human being. Her picking the time to do what she did was decided when she was hopped up on a dozen psych meds and in the midst of her psychosis.
Yeah regardless of the trial there’s a lot of posts suddenly being made about this and a lot of the same people trolling the comments. I feel like someone is trying to push more culture war shit ahead of midterms.
I don't think it really works like that though. If she is found not guilty by reason of insanity, she goes to a psychiatric hospital but she will constantly have the opportunity to be released if she is found to not be suffering any mental illness anymore. Prison is the only guarantee she will not be released to the public. If she is released by the hospital NOTHING is stopping her from having more children.
Correct me if im wrong because im not paying attention to this case that closely, but isnt that what the other jurors said? Put her in a psych hospital?
That is not a hot take. That is literally the take of the 11 other jurors. Technically, there would be a possibility that it wouldn't be for life, but it is far from likely.
I could be 100% wrong but isn’t that trial just about the post partem psychosis? I thought they agreed she murdered the children just having a trial on why.
No, there are a lot of supporters of her who actually think she is being framed by her husband, and the husband killed the kids and tried but failed to kill her
Society isn't "healing" because you agree with the fact that she is guilty. There are equally a lot of people that call for the death penalty even though it has been proven multiple times that it doesn't work in a society.
Exactly, thats why I feel the need to remind people that not guilty by reason of diminished responsibility is a real plea and if proved should be taken seriously legally and morally.
Lots of people are trying to downplay it and say its a get out of jail free card and you can do evil things because you're a bit sad.
If you do something so horrible in a state of psychosis, you are also a victim in that you had no control over the outcome.
I'll add a not guilty by reason of insanity isn't "ok go home"
It's "you're going to a facility until you're no longer a danger" it may be marginally better than jail but she will probably be locked away for life regardless
I love how no one seems to understand the trial is more to determine where she ought to go: prison or mental ward for life, and yet people are saying the jury is hung because only one person said shes guilty. This is why court cases becoming entertainment and not simply coverage for public news always detracts from what's actually happening
If she is declared insane. She isn't going to mental ward for life. She will be assessed once in a while, and if they deem her not insane she will be released
That's literally the core of the problem you missed
I love how you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. The state of Massachusetts has different rules. In a mental institution she gets assessed after 6 months and every year. The state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she is still mentally unwell. She would be all but guaranteed to be released after 6 months, considering she doesn't even have postpartum psychosis anymore.
That is also not it though, if she was found to not be sane at the time of the crime than she gets send to a mental ward. The length of her stay is determined by the chance of being a danger to society. She could be out in a few years or maybe after decades, but she is not by definition going to be there for life.
Yea I have had multiple discussions with people on reddit where they said the same shit basically. The trial isn't even about whether she did it, she already admitted to doing it lol. It's about whether she was sane at the time of the crime.
Thats pretty much an outlier. there are deffinatly women who believe the conspiracy, but I dont think its all THAT wide spread. Tik tok has a way of promoting rage bait. Remember republicans believing biden created hurricanes? I never met a republican who actually believed that shit, and I know alot of republicans. Most people saying shes innocent, is because of the psychosis. Shes innocent, but she should be institutionalized. Ive only seen one person promoting the idea Patrick did it on here, and I almost argued with them, but then I realized the account was only 19 days old. Probably a bot, or a troll.
They're ignoring it because conspiracy theorists have always existed, but apparently it only became a problem when some women latched on to this case, and it's a blatantly bad faith to paint the vats majority of women who are talking about post partum mental health as crazy people.
you know I haven't actually met anyone that believes she souldnt be found guilty. Has anyone considered that everyone saying she shouldnt be found guilty is actually fake and this is all a conspiracy????
A sensible take? How dare you! 100 downvotes and multiple people saying that you are wrong & you support her actions (you don't, you support people getting help even if it means life long).
Because people get their news from social media where you get the most views by saying something inflammatory. There is no incentive to include the notation this trial is about being in right mind because it’s way more polarizing to just use guilty/not guilty
Literally no one thinks otherwise. The vast majority of women "supporting" her arent saying she didnt do it. They are saying the people around her failed her (they did). Stop getting rage baited by a tiny fraction of a group. I know youre smarter than that, although this is r/SipsTea so maybe not.
Honestly, this entire affair has been blown completely out of proportion by the media.
And I feel almost angry toward all those who use it as a pretext to create yet another "men against women" case, or vice versa.
The husband was painted as a monster.
She was painted as a monster.
The only saints are the ones pointing fingers.
Some claim he abandoned her, which is ridiculous.
This couple tried everything humanly possible, together, to manage the situation.
At the moment the murder took place, the husband wasn't out playing a game of poker with his friends;
he had been sent by Lindsay herself to buy medicine for the children and food for dinner.
He probably left feeling relatively calm, considering that just a short time prior they had gone to a facility where staff didn't think it necessary to admit his wife, underestimating her cry for help and describing her as "low risk."
At the same time, the fact that she sent her husband away from the house, combined with her internet searches on travel times, suggests premeditation, but it is the premeditation of someone who has lost their mind.
The prosecution views her failure to take her medications exactly as prescribed as a cold, calculated attempt to build a defense of insanity, but it could very well be a completely normal response to the fear of not seeing immediate results.
Imagine suffering from severe depression and suicidal thoughts, maybe even starting to hear voices telling you to do things.
You hope to silence all of this with medication, but you don't see any immediate positive effect, or perhaps you feel even worse. It's panic.
It is highly plausible that hers was a clumsy attempt to find something that worked quickly.
The mistake in that case lies with the doctors, who indulged her requests by changing all those medications in such a short period of time as if they were handing out candy.
It takes very little medical knowledge, honestly, just common sense, to know that doing something like that, especially with a patient suspected of having bipolar disorder, is like ticking a time bomb.
Which, moreover, is exactly why they both sued the doctors for malpractice.
After the terrible thing she did, Lindsay tried to commit suicide, and let's remember that the woman in question was left paralyzed from the waist down.
Quite a great plan for a cold and calculating mind, quite a wonderful outlook on life: permanently paralyzed, and if she's lucky, confined to a psychiatric facility for an uncertain and potentially permanent amount of time.
Wouldn't it have been much easier to get a divorce if she had simply wanted to escape a life she could no longer stand?
She confessed to the murder immediately, the husband does not blame her, she does not blame the husband...
They are both victims of a terrible situation that neither of them ever wanted to experience.
Something like this is already devastating enough without having to endure a media pillory by people who are only good at bar room gossip... Sigh.
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