r/TopCharacterTropes • u/KusanagiGundam • 15d ago

Hated Tropes (Hated Trope) "Kind" slave owners

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Speaking as an American who has studied the civil war all throughout my school years, this trope infuriates me to no end. There is no such thing as a kind slave master because slavery itself is cruel and inhumane. PEOPLE ARE NOT PROPERTY!

Naofumi (Shield Hero): Prime example of this trope. He enslaves multiple (underage) girls and an whole village and the fans still say he's a hero.

Rudeus (Jobless Reincarnation): As if being a pedo wasn't bad enough he had to buy a slave in season 2. Worse is that people still defend his actions.

Song of The South (Disney): Possibly the OG example of this trope. And the reason why Disney will never release it again.

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u/sisdom-weeker 15d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/Fkg6fI0hsngIM
Harry Potter inherits Kreacher the house elf from Sirius and treats him "nicely" (and one of the last thoughts he has in Deathly Hallows is that he wants Kreacher to make him a sandwich)

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u/bisexualboy38 15d ago

The house elf situation was always a mess, we just didn't pick up on it as kids.

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u/sisdom-weeker 15d ago

Poor worldbuilding all around, it would have been better if either "only proper bastards like the Malfoys own them" or "eventually everyone realizes how fucked up wizard slavery is and realizes Hermione is right"

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u/DragonWisper56 15d ago

that or just have the heroes should just employ the elves.

even if you want the elves to have quirky relationship with employment, you could have them be paid in socks or something

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u/award_winning_writer 14d ago

Except the books spend a depressingly large amount of text establishing that most elves want to be enslaved and find the thought of being freed unbearable, with Dobby just being an odd exception. After Winky is freed she gets hired just like Dobby but instead of working she spends all her time lazing about, getting drunk, and wallowing in self pity.

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u/Irish_Whiskey 14d ago

After Winky is freed she gets hired just like Dobby but instead of working she spends all her time lazing about, getting drunk, and wallowing in self pity.

The exact same argument that slaveowners made for why they shouldn't be forced to give up slaves.

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u/Pecuthegreat 14d ago

I feel like people be reading too into this. They are clearly not supposed to be allegories to real humans.

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u/DragonWisper56 14d ago edited 14d ago

I mean when our very first interactions with them was doby not wanting to be a slave , and the whole plotline of SPEW It's kinda hard to see it.

Iike nothing actually forced JK to make them all slaves she could have easily just say the ones in hogwarts were freed and just worked their.

edit: I also know she's playing with the whimsical nature of brownies but I feel like there were other more intereasting ways of doing it

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u/Orion_starborn 14d ago

I once saw someone say that Terry Pratchett would have done it much much better, basically he would likely have the house elves as aggressive servants (I can't think of a better word) like if you're not at the table at 8 sharp for breakfast all hell would break loose or if you dare walk on their grass you'll be led up in the infirmary

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u/ukezi 14d ago

Pratchett had the golems, animated constructs that are built to need an owner though the magic words in their head.

Then inside one of the books it's figured out you can just stick their deed next to the magic words and then they own themselves.

The first free golem then works hard to buy and free the next golem, and so on.

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u/Yorokobe_Shounen69 14d ago

Feet of clay, right?

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u/ukezi 14d ago

Introduced in feet of clay, but expanded upon in going postal, making money and raising steam.

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u/Pecuthegreat 14d ago

I mean, I do agree with you. The house elves are clearly based off brownies and kitchen goblins so they could have been made more into employees than slaves which would be closer to the original myth.

Don't know why she decided going with slavery was better when it could just be that that Draco's family was turning legal employees into defacto slaves.

I just think going with the real life comparison maybe stretching authorial intent.

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u/DragonWisper56 14d ago

to be honest I have no idea what her intent was. I don't think she intended to say slavery was good but making Hermione a misinformed activist makes it sound like it.

Like I get her intent but she seems to have gone about in perhaps the worst possible way

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u/Bloodyjorts 14d ago

There's also the fact that I think it may have been a somewhat tortured allegory for 'house wives', as one of the oldest women's rights organizations in Industrial England was the Society for Promoting the Employment of Women, or...SPEW.

[SPEW still operates today, though they rebranded as 'Futures for Women'.]

As you said, I kinda get her intent, I just don't think it was executed as well as it could have been. I think she was trying to do too much (house wife allegory + brownie folk tales + lampooning misinformed activism + "Wizarding World is kinda fucked up, actually" + racism + slavery + normalization of messed up shit, told through the eyes of a kid whose really going through it right now, all in a book meant for children).

I do think there was some interesting dynamics going on with Sirius and Kreacher, how Sirius's need to separate himself from his racist pureblood family causes him to lash out and take out his anger on Kreacher (in part because Sirius himself is emotionally stunted and immature due to his spending a decade plus in prison), even the kids were kind of shocked at how badly Sirius treated him, and Kreacher found ways to betray Sirius because of this.

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u/lolajet 13d ago

Considering that she doesn't seem to have that good of an opinion of women (regardless of how she likes to portray herself), that S.P.E.W. parallel makes a depressing amount of sense

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u/Z0eTrent 14d ago

You get her intent but you have no idea what her intent was?

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u/howboutthemapples 14d ago

The thing about authorial intent with JKR, and in fact everything about her and her views, is that she can sometimes have a decent idea but is fundamentally incapable of thinking about it deeply.

Magic isn't about memorization or reading, it has to do with emotions and intent!..but I need to have the kids do homework. It'll be fine if I never ever go into detail about what that looks like.

The central theme of my series should be that love and courage are the most important things of all!..but I also want the stories to be mysteries, so the solutions to the issues the characters face will be solved with loopholes (Lily's love for Harry), plot holes (a lot of things, Moody comes to mind), and, for some reason, riddles and logic puzzles (the Deathly Hallows)

I should have a wizarding sport, and flying is a fun idea!..but it is absolutely imperative that the rules make no goddamn sense whatsoever.

People can have issues with their sense of self and should pursue what makes them happy!..but I have personally been assaulted by a man, so trans women must all be fakers.

Oops, something may have slipped in there. Apologies; I just get a little riled up when I think about how people fund the dissolution of my and my loved ones' rights and lives. Silly me.

(To be clear, this was only in regards to JKR's abilites and proclivities as an author; I wasn't suggesting you had said anything about her ethics or yours re: human rights)

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u/Irish_Whiskey 14d ago

I agree they aren't intended to be "allegories" but they are treated as sentient beings functionally the same as humans in the story. Dobby is not portrayed as 'subhuman' and unworthy of empathy.

The problem with Rowling's moral lessons in the books is that she writes a lot of social evils and political messages in there... but the conclusion for all of them is "Well it's just bad people that are the problem, not bad systems." And that's teaching some really messed up lessons to kids.

Harry and his friends range in attitude from "slavery is fine" to "Well it could be better, but it's not a big deal. We should just be nice to them about it." Because Rowling wanted a magical slave system in her book (not inherently bad to include) but didn't want to have the main characters tear down systems or call out how morally complicit the 'good guys' running it are.

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u/PhranticPenguin 12d ago

Won't anybody think of the children in my fictional media!?

Harry Potter is corrupting my children to be okay with slavery of elves! :(( my kids need every moral lesson spelled out for them >:(

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u/Irish_Whiskey 12d ago

Yes, how dare people in "TopCharacterTropes" discuss characters in fictional media.

I can see from your responses that you are offended and upset by discussion of this particular series/author that is critical. If you would like to be honest about why, I can respond to you. Otherwise I recommend you take your binky and retreat to a safe space.

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u/PhranticPenguin 12d ago

Nothing offended or upset lmao. I'm just mocking your ridiculous opinion.

It is ridiculous to try and sanitize every series that has slavery or any other taboo topic. The entire point of fiction is to explore different ideas. Those ideas do not need to be sanitized and childsafe disney-fied.

Not all stories need to be the rebels upending systems of evil oppression and saving the princess or even have some kind of moral lesson to protect children their 'fragile' 'weak' minds. Critical thinking can be learned precisely from imperfect stories.

You're trying exactly to create a safe space with your response, need a mirror and a pacifier to go?

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u/Irish_Whiskey 12d ago

I'm just mocking your ridiculous opinion.

You did not. You whined "won't something think of the characters in fictional media!" That's mocking the triviality of the discussion, not the substance of why it's wrong. Which would be completely reasonable to do if we were in a subreddit about the history of war crimes, and not... discussing character tropes.

It is ridiculous to try and sanitize every series that has slavery or any other taboo topic. 

Not a thing I said or suggested in the slightest. I don't know if this is more bad faith making things up, like when you suggested I ban the books and hit my kids, or you're that illiterate.

 or even have some kind of moral lesson to protect children their 'fragile' 'weak' minds.

But it does have a moral lessons. It is filled with them in blunt ways. It is a story about a boy overthrowing a group of 'blood purists' who seize control of government and media, that regularly stops to discuss racism, feminism and class issues.

The problem we're having here is that you agree with some message of the author and I don't. But you're far too much of a coward to say that, and instead make bad faith arguments that discussion of the books message is itself bad.

You're trying exactly to create a safe space with your response, need a mirror and a pacifier to go?

If you can't think of a coherent insult, don't just try to copy the last one you heard.

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u/Siria110 14d ago

Well, the goblins are literaly jewish stereotypes, werewolfs alegory for AIDS, so...

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u/DragonWisper56 14d ago

I meant from a out of universe prospective. making the saves get depressed after not being slaves is really icky

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u/Total-Explanation208 14d ago

Icky but disturbingly accurate. A lot of times when you get what you want you suddenly don't know what to do anymore. This isn't defending the bad things that are happening, but acknowledging that it isn't just sunshine and rainbows when the bad things stop. Just look at all the people who spend retirement sitting around watching tv.

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u/DragonWisper56 14d ago

you know what I mean. Harry Potter doesn't put any effort into dealing with what fredom is like after leaving a very restrictive situation( Shawshank Redemption actually does this really well) but is more using it as way to show that the slaves "like being slaves"

it's just her clumsy attempt at fixing a plot hole

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u/PablomentFanquedelic 14d ago

Prediction: HBO is gonna resolve this with Winky becoming a trad elf influencer and showing Dobby the error of his ways

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u/Aluxanatomy 14d ago

"Dobby, let me show you this crystal ball program by Charlemagne Kirkius.

... Wait, did his neck always do that??"

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u/whereismymind86 14d ago

which is like...a REALLY common apologist trope used by old racists. That they did the slaves a mercy by bringing them to a glorious new land, and "saving them" by introducing them to christianity, and teaching them new skills they wouldn't have learned if they were free and unemployed back in their homelands.

In retrospect, coupled with the portrayal of the goblins...it really shouldn't have come as a surprise that Rowling was a bad person...

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u/Uypsilon 14d ago

Which literally does happen in Hogwartz? They do own a lot of house elves, but also do employ elves who want to be employed.

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u/DragonWisper56 14d ago

I mean from a out of universe standpoint.

why did she write it to were they want to be slaves when she would easily have them just be employees