I have 0 energy as usual and i dont think anybody have much left so i will try to be as quick as possible..

I tried making a long post but gave up half way through bcs i cried and just decided to give up. I am defo not okay.

It doesnt matter who i am and what i went through , i think this post should be relatable to anyone

Like evrybody on earth , like every human and life form , i suffered throughout my life and still suffer to this day.

I also got to experience great things and belive the universe is a beautiful and overwhelming miracle full of wonder and beauty bcs i wanna be fair with life. Some things are beautiful and rly amazing like the complexity of this world and of humans. These things are great to observe and ponder on bcs it feel like a spark of divinity.

But is that worth the pain ? Is that worth the humiliation ? Is that worth the enslavment and inability to decide what i want and think when desperate ? Is that worth the insanity ? Is that worth the decay and slow death of the mind and the body ?

Hell no , it is a matter of dignity and self respect.

I think this creation is perfect for a creator pint of view bcs it make up for a beautiful canva full of the evrything but as a actor in it it is just pure misery.

The good moment rly just feel like a teasing and whenevr we get our hope up abt being able to change for the better ( ourselves and the world ) we are only met with more pain and deception.. More void to fill and more hatred to throw away.

I just want my efforts to be respected by life. I have everything to thrive but my body and this society is tearing me apart mentally and physically and i fear i am to broken to take the chance. I try and try and try to find value in life and make an effort again but i keep on suffering and so does everyone.

All the ideologies like veganism and antinatalism rly try to reduce suffering and it seems to lean toward reduction of suffering which is the constant of life..

But then the only deduction of it is suicide no ? But not everybody can die like that or else we just start a genocide which arguably is the apology of pain.

Im tired of having to live and trying to do the right thing when it is so obvious we will always stay a minority bcs all those who dont have this mentality do it bcs it serve them and most ppl dont need it to live so they will never do the extra efforts.

I dont want to live and make God have the pleasure to make fun of me again and i dont want to suffer anymore and pretend like i am righteous when i see the hatred and evil within myself. Or to enjoy some aspect of my life in a world i dont accept

I am becoming insane from not knowing what to do.

Ik the nothingness cant be wrong and yearn for it as i dont want to be part of this bs anymore to finally stand for my beliefs but i cant decently give up on life and impose the pain i feel to other victims.

But i will just keep hurting ppl if i stay , in a way or another..

There is no good answer in the end

I hope i wont have kids but even that i dont know if i will ( even tho its extremely likely i wont ) bcs i dont get to know what will be my futur. I hate lust and yet i have thoughts i found disgusting. Ik despair can make u do anything and it break me apart.

I hold onto one thing : the nothingness cant be wrong

In real life most people seem to agree life is hard and even natalists. Natalists IRL counter Antinatalism with their bravery and warrior speeches instead of saying life is good. They say "Life is hard but we fight", "we cry but we don't give up", etc. Only on reddit I see people saying things like those who don't find love or marriage partner are at fault rather than bad standards and we see natalists saying things like life is beautiful or saying love is pure. I am not saying love or life are just bad but irl people are not extremely positive about them.

The only person I know who said life is beautiful was a therapist. They seem farther away from reality than normal people.

I'm not a woman but I found this post because I had the same question. I was just wondering because I've seen it everywhere with celebrities, politics, and in the military. Tons of people would gravitate towards the people that treated them like shit instead of people that treated them with respect. I was like is it stockholm syndrome or something, what is it? But there are a lot of good answers in the thread ranging from, people hoping to not be targeted by the toxic individuals, to people being shitty themselves and being with them enables each other and they can feel less guilty about their own actions, or being blind to it or seeing it and choosing ignorance and google said trauma bonding so masses put shitty people at the top. But I still don't understand why people are this way, i thought it didn't make sense. Until I thought about it in terms of a jealous god and soul traps or this place actually being some form of hell or loosh farm, then it does make sense considering that the whole reason for our creation was to make others feel good. Toxic foundation.

That's all it is. Not an endorsement nor a condemnation of "it takes a village to raise a child".

If antinatalism was not about that and instead an abstract view of there being no point in having kids or babies nor that "children are the future", very few people would have a problem with it. It would just be a view with no implications. You might get still get mocked by people who think they are superior to you because they have kids, but there wouldn't be hate like there is now.

The range of arguments against non natalist viewpoints are marshaled to deal with the eventual implication more or less about who's going to pay for it all, if the view that there's no point in having kids or babies then goes down the pathway of "so why should we pay for other people's kids and parents having kids and babies?". If only parents pay for their kids, not everyone now that wants to will get to enjoy the joys of biological parenthood and childrearing/children living their best lives from infancy until those children are adults, unlike their parents and grandparents. That makes such parents and people sympathetic to parents hateful against antinatalists, no matter how calmly the pathway is trod by at least some. Because to them, they were robbed of that experience if nobody is at all times 100% in agreement with the precedence of their joy and their children living their best lives.

That's all the incentive needed for the public to turn against antinatalism. And then ironically to accept that restraint to keep the peace and "don't judge" is to keep antinatalism to something that is just an abstract individual opinion with no real implication. When antinatalism is like that, most people will just ignore it.

The "shooting the messenger" response of downvotes, dismissal and heated exchanges such a message receives spelling out what is implicitly done but which people don't like being pointed out directly in response, is proof of how controversial it is to say this. But I feel it does need to be said by someone. Antinatalism and even just views against valuing reproduction even if you don't think creation of life is necessarily a net negative for the life it was imposed on breaks social and collective taboos, almost no question about that.

But there is such a thing as socially acceptable ways of breaking taboos versus something that starts denying people too much joy, and that's when things get heated. The ineffective antinatalism "just an opinion, I don't judge ✌️" that doesn't step on anyone's toes (without even intending to) with implications of judging parents in any way is still antinatalism, but it will not get the same hate. And that's what pronatalists want antinatalists and anyone that doesn't value reproduction to be: do not question "it takes a village to raise a child" or try to get others to sympathize with not valuing that concept. Every thread about "why are you having kids if you can't afford them?" is the realization of an implication "it takes a village to raise a child" proponents don't want talked about.

3 images attached from this comment thread https://www.reddit.com/r/CostOfLivingAU/s/8Uu0mgPv19

Like what is the point of having kids if you can’t even afford them?

This shows the IQ of the average natalist.

I know not all antinatalists hate being born, but enough do for me to ask the question.

I just can't understand why people are glad to be born in this fucked up world. There is so much suffering and to me the small good parts don't make up for the horrible parts at all.

Yes, this video is still related to antinatalism because as I’m reacting to him in this video, there are mentions of not wanting to bring a child into a cruel terrible world.

Yes, I realize I'm preaching to the choir.

I wrote this on a different sub, and I'm so fed up with people treating having kids like a "must do” in their to do líst in life

They deprive us of our freedom before we even understand what freedom means. We cannot always choose whom we love, whom we marry, or what kind of life we want to live. Our future is already written in their minds, and we are expected to live it as if it were our own dream.

They choose our relationships, our professions, our way of living, and sometimes even the people we are allowed to become. They tell us it is for our own good, that they know better, that one day we will understand. But what if the life they choose for us is the very life we never wanted?

They speak of love, yet they decide whom we should love. They speak of sacrifice, yet expect us to sacrifice the same things they never allowed us to choose for ourselves.

After twenty, we are expected to become providers. We must carry their burdens, fulfil their expectations, and bury our own desires somewhere deep inside us. We must follow tradition without questioning it, obey religion as they interpret it, and accept their decisions without asking whether those decisions are right for us.

We are their children when they need to call us their own, but we become ungrateful the moment we try to belong to ourselves.

And perhaps the saddest part is that they may genuinely believe they are doing all this out of love. Perhaps they sacrificed their own dreams for us and now expect us to sacrifice ours in return. They may not even realise that love can become another form of ownership when it leaves no room for the other person to choose.

If we refuse, they remind us of everything they have done for us. They count their sacrifices, turn our upbringing into a debt, and make us feel guilty for wanting a life of our own. Sometimes they curse the very existence they once celebrated, as if being born were a favour we must spend our entire lives repaying.

But we never asked to be born.

We did not choose our parents, our birthplace, our circumstances, or the world into which we were brought. We arrived here without consent, yet somehow we are expected to spend our lives paying for that arrival.

I wonder, if a child owes their parents everything simply because they gave them life, where does the child’s own life begin? At what point does gratitude end and ownership begin? And if we must surrender our freedom to repay the people who brought us into this world, were we ever truly given a life of our own?

Perhaps they forget that children are not investments for old age, nor are they unfinished versions of their parents waiting to be completed. They are human beings, with desires their parents may never understand, with dreams that may lead them somewhere their parents never imagined.

To bring someone into this world is to give them a life. It should not be a claim over that life forever.

I do not deny what parents sacrifice. I question why their sacrifice should become a sentence imposed on someone who never agreed to it.

If they chose to bring us into this world, why must we spend our lives proving that we deserved to be born?

I grew up surrounded by a particular kind of chaos: hedonistic, short-sighted people—many of them blood relatives—who treat reproduction like an afterthought and children like disposable burdens. Kids are brought into the world and then neglected, screamed at, beaten, and denied basic stability. Fathers vanish or never show up in the first place. The result is another generation raised in poverty and disorder, with no one willing to break the pattern.

The women and girls around me have always seemed driven by a mix of romantic delusion and pure impulse. They treat having a child as some kind of claim on a man, then repeatedly choose partners who are either worthless or actively destructive—violent, criminal, in and out of prison. One girl I know has a child she effectively abandoned with her white relatives because she can’t stop chasing a coke dealer. Her stated preference is for Black men. This isn’t limited to any single group; it’s transplants from everywhere, all converging on the same dysfunction. “Black fatigue” doesn’t begin to cover it.

I resent my own mother for embodying this. She did drugs, failed to protect me, and allowed me to be molested. When she died she left me nothing. The only relative I still speak to is a cousin who somehow escaped the orbit—he actually wants to go to college and become an engineer. Everyone else in the family seems to have at least three unclaimed children they’re actively mistreating and starving of the basics. It’s exhausting to watch the same cycle repeat while the people in it treat it as normal.

I feel bad for this woman as she got pregnant unexpectedly at 20 years old. Anyway, it reminds me of an uncle who definitely had antisocial personality disorder / psychopathy.

He was charming but a drug addict and extremely lazy. My grandparents spent hundreds of thousands on lawyers, bail, and paying his bills even in his 50s.

I think parents can help shape how well someone turns out, but ultimately, personality is genetic, and parents can only do so much. You honestly never know how your child will turn out...

Geniuenly, I'm a 14 year old teenage boy. I have an eating disorder, social anxiety, OCD and autism (all diagnosed by licensed therapists).

I've got no friends, only acquaintances and I'm constantly stressed about school and how I'm going to be in an even worse state of mind when I find a job, if I even find one.

I want to be happy and enjoy life like people tell me but I'm embarrassed of the things I like (history because it's seen as nerdy, pop music because it's seen as cringey and object shows for the same reason as pop music). Life feels duller and duller every day and I'm constantly exhausted.

I also feel my OCD, anxiety and eating disorders slowly taking over my life and my light and sound sensitivity are getting more prominent due to my autism.

I'm ashamed to admit that I've thought of taking my own life multiple times but I'm scared of dying and what'll happen.

The worst part is, I'm one of the luckier people. I've never been raped and I live in a safe country with all my basic needs met and I'm truly greatful for that.

However, I'm not able to take care of myself properly, let alone of a child...

I just don't see a point to life. It's just very overwhelming and when it's not, it's just boring...

This quote is just so true. How can anyone look at this world and think "this world is awesome, let's bring more people here to enjoy it". This world is absolutely horrendous and I do indeed think optimism is a wicked way to think.

Why do we reproduce?