r/buffy • u/InfiniteMehdiLove ☂ • Jan 16 '26
Buffy What's something from Buffy or Angel you're still bitter about to this day?
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u/SoSaysTheAngel Jan 16 '26
Xander leaving Anya at the alter.
Cordys death.
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u/Monkeysandthings Jan 16 '26
They barely mentioned Cordy in season 5! They talked about her a little in the very beginning and then barely mentioned her until her death. Pissed. 😅
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u/AnyonkaLee Jan 16 '26
Her whole story with connor really rubbed me the wrong way. Even back then.
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Jan 16 '26
They did her so dirty with that hairstyle 🤣
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u/LinwoodKei Jan 16 '26
Joss was pissed that Charisma had the audacity to become pregnant
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u/reggie-drax Jan 17 '26 edited Jan 18 '26
The man's a child.
Edit: This seems to be one of the nicer aspects of his personality.
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u/goober_ginge Jan 17 '26
Yep, same. It's really visually disturbing on account of the fact that Vincent Kartheiser looks so young and Charisma Carpenter doesn't look at all like a 21 year old, and it being Angel's SON of all people. I wish they made Connor look Angel's age, which would even be quite funny seeing him and Angel interact as father and son but looking the same age.
It really does just feel like a humiliation ritual towards Charisma from Joss. There's so many ways her pregnancy could have been written into the show and they went with such a deeply uncomfortable one 😬
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u/Angelea23 Jan 17 '26
And then Conner formed this unhealthy connection with Cordelia thinking she was in love with him. But her body was being used and violated. Or how it It wasn’t even her and he was in love with an idea
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u/Doc-cubus118 Jan 17 '26
Yes, like have her get pregnant by Gru rather than Connor. Because ugh with that storyline. She used to change is nappies!
Also I hated how they killed off Fred.
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u/BabserellaWT Jan 16 '26
Connor would probably argue she rubbed him the right w—
Y’know, Ima just prematurely show myself out.
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u/HomarEuropejski Wesley is Angel's true love Jan 16 '26
And then after death it's again like she doesn't exist until like the last episode bruh.
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u/Monkeysandthings Jan 16 '26
Omg yes, exactly! They didn't even have a funeral!! They did her so dirty. Do you know if there was a conflict with Charisma or something that caused them to write her out of the show?
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u/Sea-Extreme Jan 16 '26
Oh, bb... yes. Joss Whedon turned against her for getting pregnant and sabotaged her character. He even promised not to kill her, but that obviously switched up once Charisma had signed on. Charisma has spoken out about it.
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u/Monkeysandthings Jan 16 '26
I just finished watching Angel for the first time just a few days ago, so thanks for letting me know! That's so shitty of them to do!
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u/user11112222333 Jan 16 '26
It was a toxic environment and the reason why Cordelia's character was done dirty on Angel is because she got pregnant and Whedon did not like that.
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u/Monkeysandthings Jan 16 '26
Wow! Thanks for letting me know! I actually just finished watching Angel for the first time a couple of days ago, so it's fresh in my mind!
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u/iterationnull Jan 16 '26
Its the lack of resolution to Xanya that makes me bitter. That event could have easily been a plot point in a great set of stories. It was ...not.
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u/ColdCruise Jan 16 '26
What do you mean? It's the driving force for Anya's arc for the rest of the series.
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u/scrapqueen Jan 16 '26
Xander leaving Anya at the altar is no. 1.
Cordy and Conner storyline is worse than death in my opinion.
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u/geminivalley Jan 16 '26
I am still on s4 of Angel and kinda knew this was the conclusion. I'll save this thread to read later, but I do have to say...I just HATE what they did to Cordelia in season 4, it's so OOC and disgusting, I was binged watching both shows as a #1 Cordy Stan, and the Connor storyline gave me a nightmare lmfaaao it's so nasty. Canonically she's supposed to be like 22, but they clearly don't acknowledge that on Angel--- Connor looks 16, and then they think bumping him up to 18 randomly makes it less icky. I HATE it and it's wild Buffy had to be careful with gay kissing scenes but nude Spike or pseudo-incestous-love-triangle is ok!! *I just hope the storyline wraps up soon cus I wanna be done with it and pretend it never happened (like Faith raping Xander!)
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u/nevermindthetime Jan 17 '26
These and also the fact that Fred's soul was destroyed when Ilyria killed her, so she can't even be resurrected.
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u/Pancaaaked 70’s Spike Jan 16 '26
That Doyle died so early in Angel.
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u/SeaBassAHo-20 Jan 16 '26
Worse, his actor died very young. And even worser was that his addiction was the cause of both Doyle's and his very own deaths.
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u/Grimmjaws Jan 16 '26
Both Christian Kane and David Boreanaz were very uncomfortable with the season 5 storyline of Lindsay pretending to be Doyle because they were so close to Glenn.
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u/AntRose104 Jan 17 '26
Glenn had also died right before season 5 starting filming (he died 12/02 and s5 likely started filming around April/May 03)
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u/Pancaaaked 70’s Spike Jan 16 '26
Drugs suck, I wish Glenn could’ve survived. He was a very strong actor, and I think he could’ve had a long and good career.
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u/geminivalley Jan 16 '26
Glenn Quinn was SO handsome. Obviously parts of Doyle's storyline go to Cordelia and I suspect Lorne, but I loved his character and performance so much. I didn't expect the death to occur so early. I cried, and then had a take a beat to collect myself because I didn't know he died in real life nor that it was YEARS after his departure from the show.
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u/Helpful_Yogurt7610 Jan 16 '26
Even worse than that, the actor that played lorne, andy hallett, died irl too.
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u/geminivalley Jan 16 '26
I have only seen him in human form once on the show so it hasn’t fully hit me yet. But it’s just so tragic, both of them are so good in the show! Hope their families are at peace
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u/jospangel Try not to bleed on my couch I just had it steam cleaned Jan 16 '26
He had an abscessed tooth that he didn't get taken care of, at the end of season 5. The infection got into his blood and caused heart problems (cardiomyopathy). He died in 2009 - he was 33 years old.
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u/shayetheleo Jan 16 '26
His story is why I’m hyper-aware of any issues with my teeth and go to the dentist asap.
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u/No-Intention8698 Jan 16 '26
I am very glad that they made doyles death meaningful though. The guy had issues and they knew it wouldnt work out, but they still sent off his character in such a grand way. He was a great character through and through.
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u/melropesplays Jan 16 '26
Yeah, not to make excuses for everyone but the actors addiction was unfortunately the reason for him leaving the show, wasn’t a whole lot anyone could’ve done about that. More sadness than bitter
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u/rites0fpassage Jasmine Jan 16 '26
A shame what the actor was going through irl. I would’ve loved to see the series with Doyle and see how that would have progressed.
I love Wesley’s character development but Doyle was such an interesting character we only got a glimpse of his background.
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u/athousandpardons Jan 16 '26
That's what gets me, I don't buy (but understand) Whedon et al's claims to the contrary, they were clearly building an a much grander backstory for the character to be revealed with time, and I still believe the series was going to go in a much different direction had he stayed. Quite a shame.
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u/agent-assbutt randy giles Jan 16 '26
Connor and Cordelia 🤢🤮
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u/geminivalley Jan 16 '26
I'm on season 4 of Angel...and I just finished BS7... it's disgusting. I had to take a break bc it feels like something Cordelia would never do. If they wanted that story beat why even introduce him as 16 and then suddely after 3 months he's 18...and they are together.
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u/MoosieMusings Jan 16 '26
But that’s the point. It wasn’t Cordelia. She was already being controlled by Jasmine.
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u/geminivalley Jan 16 '26
well I haven't gotten to that point my love...but NOW that I know it isn't her. I'm happy about that and will be finishing off the show this weekend lol. I surmised she must have been under the influence of something or someone else !
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u/MoosieMusings Jan 16 '26
Ooooh sorry. I didn’t mean to give spoilers 😥😳
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u/geminivalley Jan 16 '26
no it's ok. I already somewhat knew she'd eventually be phased out! Don't worry :)
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u/IAAHR Jan 16 '26
Anya’s death. In addition to that the way they all just seemed to shrug it off when she died
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u/aroryns Jan 16 '26
How no one supported Buffy in S6. She wasn't wrong.
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u/HomarEuropejski Wesley is Angel's true love Jan 16 '26
Buffy : I've just tried to commit suicide while singing about how living again is like Hell
Giles the next day: Aight imma head out
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u/SeaBassAHo-20 Jan 16 '26
It's even worse when they all threw her out of HER OWN fucking house! When Rona said, "Ding dong, the witch is dead.", I wanted to string her up!
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u/WitchyRedhead86 Jan 16 '26
Yeah, I HATED Rona for that line when it aired. That’s HER DAMN HOUSE that she is graciously letting you all squat in. And she’s kept you alive for months. Sit the eff down all of you. 😤😤🤬
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u/Yaseuk Jan 16 '26
Cordelia and Tara would never have allowed that to happen
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u/buffyangel468 Andrew 💅 Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
I feel like Tara, despite being biased (bc she was with Willow, and Willow obviously didn’t support Buffy in that moment), would’ve understood both perspectives, not just Xander and Willow’s.
When you kind of have an outsider perspective, it can be easier to see both sides of something (in this case, the verbal attack on Buffy) rather than immediately choosing sides. Yes, Tara was very much apart of the group, but she hadn’t always been there.
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u/Grr_in_girl Jan 16 '26
That we didn't get to see the meeting between Buffy and Angel after Buffy came back from the dead.
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u/Responsible-Ship-752 Jan 16 '26
This one! I understand why it couldn’t work but they at least should have alluded to what went down during their last convo on Buffy.
Though I suppose they might have been saving it for her planned appearances on Angel that never happened.
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u/Grimmjaws Jan 16 '26
I think by then they were on separate networks so crossing over was harder to do because of the bureaucracy of it all.
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u/blackorchid_0 Jan 16 '26
Angel S1E8 "I will remember You". I cried like a bitch, it's so unfair. Buffy can't get a fucking break.
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u/SeaBassAHo-20 Jan 16 '26
One of SMG's very best performances in her career, let alone the Buffyverse.
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u/Revolutionary-Wait82 Spike defender Jan 16 '26
I read that her performance at Prom was crazy because she didn't actually play, she was (and is) a big Bangel fan and she felt really bad about this plot twist. In 1x08 you can read from David's lips that at some point he calls Sarah by her real name, she was so moved.
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u/debsterUK Jan 16 '26
I watched that scene a lot and I can never spot him saying Sarah!
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u/thedistantdusk Jan 16 '26
Saaaaame! Everyone claims they see it at 3:12 in this clip but all I see is “shh, shh, please.”
I’d like it to be true but I’ve just never seen it 😫
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u/MichaSound Jan 16 '26
In my head canon, once Buffy had raised a bunch of Slayers, lived some life, decided her cookie dough was ‘baked’, Angel was made human by the Powers That Be (as they prophesied would one day happen) and Angel and Buffy got their happy ending.
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u/earlysong Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
Absolutely incredible piece of television. And it's the one that ranks the highest in "best episodes of TV of all time" by critics groups!
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u/sparkdark66 Jan 16 '26
I think because many shows have a musical episode but few have a music episode that is top tier like once more with feeling
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u/Kat-Attack-52 Jan 16 '26
Still not over Tara’s pointless death.
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u/SeaBassAHo-20 Jan 16 '26
Especially since Amber Benson was in the theme song.
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u/athousandpardons Jan 16 '26
I knew she was going to die the second I saw her in the credits. As a long term uber-fan, I knew about Joss Whedon's desire to put Jesse in the opening credits of Welcome to the Hellmouth.
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u/geminivalley Jan 16 '26
by season 7 so many of the characters stopped development, she could've played a bigger role and had so much to offer and explore. I hate the writer's enjoyment of surprise character deaths. I think someone else could've gone.
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u/gummiwitch Jan 16 '26
Omg this! Still angry about that
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u/jospangel Try not to bleed on my couch I just had it steam cleaned Jan 16 '26
Being in the credits means a lot more money for Amber - so that's good.
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u/Pedals17 You’re not the brightest god in the heavens, are you? Jan 16 '26
Hank just completely abandoning Buffy & Dawn
Missing out on Buffy’s reunion with Angel after her resurrection.
Xander leaving Anya at the altar.
Tara’s death.
Season 7 after “Sleeper” and up until “Dirty Girls”. They started off Season 7 strongly, then dropped the ball when the Potentials showed up.
Cordelia’s character assassination and death on Angel.
Angel being canceled.
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u/Mr_penguin_butt Jan 16 '26
I still don't get why they turned their father into a deadbeat when she had a good relationship with him in the first couple seasons
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u/peafrogsims Jan 16 '26
I always assumed the actor got busy 😅
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u/skyturnedred Jan 16 '26
It was because Whedon didn't like the actor for some reason.
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u/Ashamed_Magpie Jan 17 '26
Not surprised but honestly he was such a minor character, he appeared what, three times? throughout the show. He would’ve been an easy recast.
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Jan 16 '26
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u/geminivalley Jan 16 '26
Like... he's a troll God? It's silly but I went with it. The show didn't want Buffy to have any extra abilities so they had to give her weapons to win her battles. I thought it was cool, (much cooler than the rehash in s7 with the axe, which too is cool but felt so needless considering she refused to take the shadowmen power upgrade which would've saved so many lives)
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u/Sckathian Jan 17 '26
Oh this remimds me of the finale.
"If girls were just physically STRONG they would all be empowered and there would be no domestic abuse." Such a strange and fucked up message.
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u/Street_Rope1487 Jan 16 '26
Amber Benson not being included in the opening credits of Seasons 5 and 6, despite Tara being in most of the episodes and clearly being a core member of the Scooby Gang, then finally getting a spot in the opening credits of Seeing Red just so Joss could indulge himself in the stunt he’d wanted to do with Eric Balfour (Jesse) in Season 1. Playing that joke with a character who only appears in two episodes at the very start of a show is a far cry from doing it with a fan-favourite character who’s appeared in three seasons and has a major role, and it only made the optics around Tara’s death worse than they already were.
On a related note, I’m also a little bitter that absolutely no one ever mentions Jesse after he dies, despite the fact that he was best friends with Xander and Willow, and it’s obvious that him being turned into a vampire is a huge source of trauma for Xander in particular (and likely one of the reasons for Xander being more negatively disposed towards Angel and Spike).
Finally, I’m more than a little bitter about how inconsistent the shows are regarding both lore and morality, particularly as far as whether it is ever okay to kill humans (and where exactly the line is between a supernaturally-empowered human and a demon/monster/whatever) and how culpable someone is for actions their physical body took when their mind and/or soul was not in the driver’s seat, because at least 50% of the most contentious debates in the fandom are fuelled by people pointing out that when X character did such-and-such, it was treated in-universe as an unforgivable crime, but when Y character did something arguably similar, it was brushed over.
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u/HinduHillbilly Jan 16 '26
Two things:
1) That they never gave Dawn and Spike the opportunity to repair their relationship. Their friendship was probably my favorite in the whole Buffyverse. It wouldn't have needed a whole episode or anything - just one 5 minute scene could have done it. For me it really leaves an emotional void.
2) The atrocity that is As You Were, the season 6 episode in which Riley comes back. It's so stupid and nonsensical that I thought it was all going to turn out to be a dream or a spell or something. They bring up huge plot points that we've never heard before, never resolve them, and never bring them up again.
For instance, we're supposed to believe that all of a sudden Spike is the head of an international demonic weapons syndicate - that I guess he's running out of his crypt without so much as a phone? Have they met Spike? He doesn't have the attention span to wait until Saturday to kill Buffy.
We're seriously supposed to believe he would call himself the Doctor when letting Doc get past him in The Gift is the mistake he tortured himself with? Then they never bother to tell us what is actually going on.
That's not even counting all the ridiculous small things like the fact that Suvolte demons are somehow simultaneously near extinction and prodigious breeders, or that Riley magically had tactical gear in Buffy's size in his SUV.
I have no problem whatsoever with Riley coming back or with Buffy breaking up with Spike (she needed to), but this whole episode seems to be aimed at humiliating Buffy. And for them to plot it so badly and then have Riley sweep out dangling from a helicopter as the music swells? Shut up.
I guess I am pretty bitter, huh?
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u/Baby-Giraffe286 Jan 17 '26
I hate that episode so much. It is definitely one of my absolute least favorite episodes.
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u/crazy-catz_ Jan 16 '26
I will never be able to get over how buffy’s friends and family acted when they humiliated her at that party (because she ran away because xander made her KILL HER BOYFRIEND) and when they kicked her out of her own house. I have to skip those two episodes when I rewatch because they make me so mad I can’t watch them.
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u/RestaurantOk6353 Jan 16 '26
Oooh same!! I can’t watch them!! I usually will FF most of Dead Man’s Party until Giles’ iconic line of “look at my mask, isn’t it pretty? It raises the dead! Americans” and then end the episode.
Honestly cordys death and Anya’s death, Anya being left at the altar, spike SA-ing Buffy, Oz’s two episode turn around into an entirely different person (how about just the character assassination done to so many beloved characters) all are things that give me flashes of bitterness on a rewatch.
My top will forever be not getting to experience, even for one full episode, Fred and Wesley finally fucking being together!!! We muddled through like two seasons of Fred and Gunn’s chemistry-less relationship and WE DIDN’T EVEN GET ONE EPISODE WITH THEM TOGETHER!
Look as good as the Angel finale was this will forever be my biggest gripe because of talks that they were going to figure out a way to get Fred back, at least part of the time. The only saving grace I can think of is pretty much all Buffyverse relationships are doomed to end terribly, and often involve aforementioned character assassination so at least that didn’t happen to Wes and Fred.
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u/SlothySurprise69 Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
What Xander says to Buffy is irrelevant. Angel’s soul is restored while they are fighting. The only reason she killed Angel is because Whistler told her it was the only way to stop Alcatha and the world from ending.
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u/WitchyRedhead86 Jan 16 '26
They needed his blood to close the portal. It was a tragedy of timing sadly. If he was still Angelus, she would still have had to kill him, but having him become Angel again made the whole thing more tragic and hurtful.
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u/Many_Dragonfly_7961 Jan 16 '26
Yeah, "Dead Man's Party" might be the hardest episode to watch in the series.
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u/peafrogsims Jan 16 '26
The whole Veruca/Oz nonsense, and Willow not just being allowed to be a bisexual character 😭
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u/KatarinaSummers Jan 16 '26
Yeah this kind of ticked me off. She was so in love with Oz and also Xander for years. I do get people change, but I truly believe it is highly unlikely that she would just suddenly become only a lesbian and not even be attracted to men at all. It was like oh no I’m only gay now, men were never for me! I would have liked her to be bisexual really.
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u/Stock-Ad5320 Jan 17 '26
I watched it live. Having a gay character got them so close to being cancelled. The bisexual nature was implied, but Joss was warned if he pushed that envelope much further the show wouldn’t continue
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u/peafrogsims Jan 17 '26
Honestly it makes sense for the time, but I’m still bummed that that’s the way it went… for the show itself and also that the world wasn’t ready for something that shouldn’t have ever been so controversial!!
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u/Euraylie Jan 16 '26
Wasting so much time on the annoying potentials
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u/peachywthasideofkeen Jan 17 '26
Ooooh this! It's the last season and they dedicated so much screentime to brand new characters instead of the ones we've invested years in
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u/betterweirdthandead6 Jan 17 '26
They're SO annoying. And as someone who is British, that incredibly fake English accent one of them has is like nails down a chalkboard.
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u/_A-Q Jan 16 '26
Anya not dying in Xander’s arms and her dead body left under the rubble of the school.
Cordelia’s character being written off by a bitter Joss Whedon.
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u/Vanamond3 Jan 16 '26
Turning Willow's unique hubris storyline into a horribly cliched addiction like something out of a bad after school special.
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u/Street_Rope1487 Jan 16 '26
Oh my gosh, yes. Especially considering that magic had previously been used as a central metaphor in the Willow/Tara relationship when the networks wouldn’t allow any onscreen depiction of physical intimacy.
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u/HomarEuropejski Wesley is Angel's true love Jan 16 '26
Not to mention that even the writers realized how stupid this was and had Giles be all like "it's not an addiction" at the start of season 7 lol
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u/BookItPizzaChampion Jan 16 '26
What they did to my boy Oz. They didn't have to do that. He and Willow could have split amicably. The Dingos could have gotten signed and gone on tour, allowing him to pop up as needed. Hell, I think he would have been cool enough to open their relationship to let her explore with women so long as they talked about it first. Oz was always my favorite of the male leads. I just think he deserved a better exit.
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u/diello-kane40 Jan 16 '26
The fact that the Watcher's Council never saw fit to pay her a salary, resulting in her S6 financial troubles. The miserly cunts paid Giles, why not kick a few doubloons down to the pointy end of the stake?
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u/Glad-Key7256 Jan 16 '26
Lack of development of Xander as a character. The Zeppo created a lot of scope for his character which was never fulfilled.
Cordy's death on Angel. She had a near perfect character arc until season 4 when it all went to shit. I could still accept her absence in season 5 until You're Welcome, since W&H was a heartless place and she was the heart of the group. They should have kept her on after the episode until the end, instead of killing her offscreen.
The influx of potentials in season 7 in a short time that practically rendered them NPCs. The season was going fine until that happened.
Anya's death.
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u/VancouverWriter1984 Jan 16 '26
Me? Bitter? Never. I mean sure, there's Tara's murder, Fred's death, Xander leaving Anya at the altar, Giles leaving in early S6 when things were clearly getting worse, Buffy constantly lying about Angel in the first 3 seasons, Willow mind-wiping Tara, Spike and Buffy taking turns not taking no for an answer, Xander ganging up on Willow and trying to force her to use magic again, 95% of Connor's scenes, Cordelia's senseless death, Riley going from "nice, stable, honourable guy" to "jealous, unstable, toxic guy", and Angel killing Jenny Calendar and displaying her for Giles to see, but other than that... no, I have no bitterness at all.
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u/HomarEuropejski Wesley is Angel's true love Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
The fact that they couldn't have been bothered to even do an off-screen call between Spike and Buffy in AtS season 5 and just straight up had him make her believe that he is dead. Yikes.
On Buffy, honestly the fact that after high school it felt like Giles and Xander became moreso supporting characters rather than one of the main characters with Buffy and Willow being the true leads. I would have loved the story with Xander joining the Initiative or Giles doubting himself and his place in the gang for all of season 4 instead of it just being resolved in one episode at the start of S5. Apparently Olivia broke up with him, because he wouldn't start a family with her in England? Why wasn't this explored in the show and instead we got a random short scene with her in Restless?
Also, I'll never not be sad about Faith disappearing from the franchise for like 3 seasons.
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u/MiniNinja720 Jan 16 '26
There being absolutely no consequences for Xander around his “kick his ass” lie. The BS throwaway line in Selfless is garbage. Willow and Buffy should both have been absolutely furious, and they don’t even acknowledge it beyond Willow’s cut off “I never said”.
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u/DireBanshee Jan 16 '26
I feel like Xander never had consequences for his fu"k ups. Like when he summoned the dancing demon in "Once More with Feeling". People died, Dawn got taken and all he gets is a harsh "Xander!" from Anya
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u/Sckathian Jan 17 '26
Tbf this is the worst part of the episode and Season 6 in general for Xander. They remove any of his character or hard edges and turn him into a cartoon character.
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Jan 16 '26
Cordys entire angel s4 arc
and bringing her back on s5 just to kill her off
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u/sweetpea_bee Jan 16 '26
I have a long list but I'll wager it'll be echoed in other posts so I'll dig deeper.
It really bothers me that Angel chose to mind wipe all of the gang rather than just Connor when he gave him a second chance at the end of season 4.
It removes essentially all of the character development of the last two seasons--did Wesley even have his dark timeline? Does the gang remember bringing back Angelus? Faith?!?
It messes with the emotional heart of the show just so they can have the "who's Connor?" Gag.
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u/Mr_Alarming1313 Jan 17 '26
the way fans treated Michelle. she didnt come up with Dawn showing up out of nowhere, but she did a great job acting.
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u/purplemackem Jan 16 '26
The show trying to act like Riley is the one that got away and isn’t a major douchebag
Also Empty Places and particularly the aftermath in Touched. I know people can write long ‘see it from other peoples point of view’ and ‘they were just calling her bluff’ explanations for Buffy being duffed out but no, just no.
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u/voldy1989 Jan 16 '26
Cordelia was possessed by Jasmine and fell into a coma and died.
Tara's death
Fred becoming Illyria
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u/Old-Entertainment844 Jan 16 '26
Fred died
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u/jospangel Try not to bleed on my couch I just had it steam cleaned Jan 16 '26
Yeah, but Amy Acker was the one who wanted to change things up. She was tired of being mini skirt all science gal. Illyria was a character she helped to create.
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u/AandRRecords Jan 16 '26
When I went back to re-watch this, I was so very impressed with her acting skills in playing Illyria. I could never believe it was the same person. Also watching Illyria play Fred and switch back was so impressive to me.
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u/Tuxedo_Mark Assume would make you an ass out of me. Jan 17 '26
They didn't have to kill Fred's soul, though. She could have just been possessed.
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u/oberlin1981 Jan 17 '26
The fact that Xander and Willow NEVER mention Jessie again after the pilot episode despite him being their only other friend in the entire school.
Xander standing Anya up at the alter knowing the traumatic effect it would have on her and reassuring her constantly that he would not prove her right about the nature of men and then getting angry that she returned to being a vengeance demon.
There not being more of a conversation between Willow and Xander regarding the season 2 lie he told Buffy that Willow told him to tell her to kick Angels ass! That slight mention in season 7 was not enough!
Not getting a clear explanation as to why Dawn lost every bit of her magical nature after the season 5 finale or who/what/how the key was created in the first place.
The Joss Whedon assassination of Cordelia Chase and killing her off. No resolution for phantom Dennis.
I thought Gwen would have been a nice addition to Angel’s team. Kate from season 1 was not bad and could have been more interesting with more development and I would say the same thing about Angel’s werewolf girlfriend Nina.
Would have liked Anne/Lily/Chantrell to appear more in Angel because her appearances in both shows were always great.
Fred’s soul being destroyed! I will never let that be canon in my mind.
I’m still bitter over Lilah’s death in season 4.
Kennedy surviving the final battle over Anya and Amanda!
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u/FineFineFine_IllGo Jan 16 '26
Tara's death. So stupid and unmotivated. She deserved the chance to die fighting. "Death is random and cruel" isn't a lesson I need from a TV show.
Xander leaving Anya at the altar. Not that he didn't marry her, but how it happened (being fooled by a demon, seriously Xander?) and the fact that the other Scoobies basically stopped being her friend afterwards even though she'd risked her life fighting with them so many times.
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u/vlazuvius Jan 16 '26
Anya's death being treated as a footnote. (While I loved her as a character, I don't mind that she did per se--it was a cool full circle moment from when she ditches Xander/Sunnydale at the end of season three--just that nobody seemed to truly care about her, the characters or even the show itself.)
EVERYTHING that happened with Cordelia after Joss got mad at Charisma for getting pregnant.
The end of the last episode of Angel.
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u/BestBlueChocolate Jan 16 '26
That there was never a Buffy and Angel reunion. So sad and bitter about that.
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u/LastGoodKnee Jan 16 '26
I really feel like Xander and Cordy for the dozen or so episodes they were happy together was possibly my favorite couple.
I think they look good together, and they were funny, and their dynamic of working together was fun. IMO
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u/StrawberryFieldPoet Jan 17 '26
Killing off like every woman
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u/Tuxedo_Mark Assume would make you an ass out of me. Jan 17 '26
It really is a poor track record. Among the permanent deaths, you have:
Jenny
Joyce
Tara
Lilah
Cordelia
Fred
Amanda
Anya
Katrina
Sandy
Among the dudes:
Doyle
Wesley
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u/Available-Sun6124 Jan 16 '26
We didn't get Angel season 6. I mean S5 ending is fine, but i wanted to see more!
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u/HomarEuropejski Wesley is Angel's true love Jan 16 '26
The Black Thorn guys totally shoulda been season 6 big Bads, not just randomly thrown into the last 2 episodes.
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u/iterationnull Jan 16 '26
I'll generalize. Some significant portion of the show got either a poor ending or just didn't get one. I like the outline of how it all wrapped up, but they screwed up so many details. It bordered on incompetence.
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u/det8924 Jan 16 '26
Connor's character who led Angel to going off the rails for about half a season or so (just generally thought the character was a net negative for the show) and then after Angel season 5 getting the show back on track (its best season) getting cancelled.
I also am also bitter about Buffy season 4 going off the rails too. Buffy was coming off of the embarrassment of riches that was season 3 and it felt like season 4 was off to a very strong start and it just got derailed.
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u/Good-Handle-4695 Jan 16 '26
For me the fact that Spike never told Buffy he was alive. It made no sense and was completely out character for him. Spike always went back to Buffy. Always. It’s really hard to believe that with his personality AND the fact that she finally admitted that she loved him that he would stay away from her. Obviously they did it for the sake of having him on Angel Season 5, but still it’s just ridiculous and was never believable.
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u/Cassandra_Canmore2 Jan 16 '26
Cordelia dying off screen. Winnifred dying and being possessed immediately after Cordelia died from the repercussions of being possessed...
Anya's rather lackluster death.
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u/SayadawDocBenway Jan 16 '26
Canceling Angel after season five. Then no Ripper movie, no Spike Movie, no Faith movie.
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u/Money-Building6393 Jan 16 '26
Joyce not apologizing for telling Buffy NOT TO BOTHER COMING HOME and then getting mad at her for NOT COMING HOME 🤯. She kinda pays a little lip service to it in dead man’s party but BARELY. That should’ve been a DEVASTATING regret for her, and I know Kristine Sutherland could’ve killed it in that scene if it had been written that way! It is a parents job to make their kid feel safe and accepted and she utterly failed in that moment. And yes, the failure is understandable and human. But her acting like it was not a big deal is fucked up.
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u/Crusoe15 Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
I know it was Alexis’ choice but ffs sake, stop killing my favorite characters!
In case I wasn’t clear, Wes’ death. Cordy’s too as a matter of fact.
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u/Fair_Custard_9179 Jan 16 '26
Tara's death. "Wouldn't it be a great idea to only add a regular character to the opening credits on the episode they die?"
NO, it would not. You fucking bladder
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u/annawins1 Jan 16 '26
That we didn't get a movie/mini-series event featuring the full cast of both shows working together to avert an apocalypse.
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u/RestaurantOk6353 Jan 16 '26
Wes and Fred never really getting to be together after basically two and a half seasons of build up (and her getting all that time with Gunn who she had no chemistry with). Honestly justice for Gunn too, he deserved more time with electrogwen (or anyone he wasn’t forced to have a spark with).
Sorry if anyone thinks Gunn and Fred were cute, I just fell so hard for Wes and Fred that I just don’t see anything between the other two!!
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u/VisibleCoat995 Jan 16 '26
They went against Willow’s type of soft spoken possible/probable stoners when she dated Kennedy.
How they bungled Hank with him just not showing up for no real reason.
That Giles never sang for Lorne.
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u/Mr_penguin_butt Jan 16 '26
Buffy getting her axe a couple episodes from the finale. She coulda had a sick weapon the entire series but noooo they had to give it to her right before the ending???
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u/BabserellaWT Jan 16 '26
Putting Amber in the opening credits in the same episode where they killed Tara.
20+ years. Still not over it.
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u/brojayjoestar54 Jan 16 '26
Season 6 of Angel not being greenlit by WB and Xander still being around after highschool ended for the characters
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u/Desperate-Fan-3671 Jan 16 '26
Never liked how they killed Fred, had Ilyria and never brought Fred back.
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u/wowsomeoneactuallyy Jan 16 '26
The fact that both of Buffy’s supposed “best friends” never take full responsibility for their actions or really apologize for it. Throughout the entire show they have time and time again doubted Buffy’s judgment, treated her and their partners with entitlement and dismissive attitude, and then finally have the gall to throw her out of her own house when Buffy is the only one to sacrifice everything for the world to keep spinning. Buffy doesn’t get the option of returning to normal like everyone else, whether it be school, a career, a love life. The rest of them do. The more I rewatch the show the more you can see even from season 1 how they are the worse friends imaginable.
Xander is so bad as a friend he only has 3 moments in 7 seasons where he truly is selfless or a decent person. 3 and if you count the comics as canon then one of those moments is tarnished retroactively…… at least Willow is a bit more rounded, she has more but she also is super problematic as both a friend and romantic partner. But honestly the only people who ever treated Buffy with actual respect were Cordelia and Giles. I could write an essay fr on this subject. And yes I know the show was written at the time without much thought into being politically correct but even for its time they were garbage friends.
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u/NobodySpecialSCL Jan 16 '26
Cordy's death on Angel (the way she was treated in general in Season 4, all because Charisma DARED to get pregnant? The scandal! /s)
Neither Xander nor Willow dying in the finale. (I honestly thought at least one of them should, the first people Buffy met in Sunnydale also die there as she moves to a new life)
Tara's death. (This one will never not hurt!)
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u/Intelligent_Pepper31 Jan 16 '26
Connor! Angel having a son was so lame. Kinda destroyed the series for me.
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u/3Questionmark4Profit Jan 16 '26
When Angel comes back to Sunnydale in S7 to help out Buffy, it's right at the end of the episode. He shows up just as she's fighting Caleb and it's a really dramatic moment.
However, the opening credits at the start of the episode included "David Boreanaz". So you're basically waiting for him to show up all the way through. The fight with Caleb is at the end of the episode so you know Angel must pop up then. It turns what should have been a really dramatic moment into something that's totally expected.
When Giles comes back to fight Dark Willow in S6 Anthony Head is credited at the end. Don't know why they didn't do that with Angel.
I was watching in UK. Curious if this was the same in the US.
I have been bitter about it ever since - lol!
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u/K0r0k_Le4f Jan 17 '26
The gang kicking Buffy out of her own house in S7. Also practically every single line of dialogue Kennedy says.
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u/peachywthasideofkeen Jan 17 '26
That scene in season 6. I get they wanted it to be the catalyst for Spike seeking a soul but it really didn't need to be that.
Everything they did to Cordelia.
The way Giles left Buffy while she was clearly struggling (and for very good reason). I get there were off screen reasons, but the in story reason he left was dumb as hell.
Everyone turning on Buffy and kicking her out of her own house.
Fred's death.
Anya's death especially that it happened off screen.
How much Xander got away with.
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u/misscatholmes Jan 17 '26
Cordelia and Connor. Just no, ew gross. I don't care if Cordy wasn't Cordy.
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u/Lanky-Step-3559 Jan 17 '26
The way the tried to really push Zander into all the Love troupes, girls fighting over him TWICE. Cordelia and willow then willow and Anya. Then all the other girls that liked him genially made me grr.
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u/ohsweetfancymoses Jan 17 '26
That we didn’t find out what happened to those eggs in Teacher’s Pet.
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u/thisguy49 Jan 17 '26
Gunn never getting an action figure because they did not think it would sell well because of the color of his skin
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u/Aviyenda Jan 17 '26
Definitely Xander leaving Anya at the alter. Them being together was one of the best parts of the show.
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u/chinderellabitch Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
When Sunday snapped the Class Protector Umbrella I get the metaphor for it but was like the one good thing Buffy got in HS
(Also that we never got an appearance of Brian, the guy Joyce was dating in season 5, it would’ve been nice to have a moment where he reached out to Buffy and they could’ve shown how awkward but caring the gesture is)