r/fcs • South Dakota State • Minnesota • 23d ago

Analysis [OC] The FCS Blue Bloods Chart

[If you just want to look at the chart, it's down in the comments]

The "Blue Bloods Chart" is used in various college sports to determine who the sport's blue bloods are. What a blue blood is isn't officially defined, but it's usually teams who've been consistently among the best in a sport over a long period, while also having some championship level success. A blue bloods chart has a program's total weeks ranked in the top 25 on the X axis, and total weeks ranked in the top 5 on the Y axis.

The FBS version of this chart is found here. The FBS blue bloods are identified as Alabama, Michigan, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Texas, and USC (though Nebraska has been seriously slipping the last 15 years).

I've created a spreadsheet which has every FCS media poll going back to the beginning of the subdivision in 1978, which has allowed me to find the data needed to create a similar chart. The catch is that because many FCS teams have either left the subdivision, or have joined the subdivision at some point over the years, not every program has the same number of seasons in the FCS. For that reason, merely charting total weeks ranked can misrepresent the quality of a program.

So the chart that I've created and posted in the comments instead uses a program's % of weeks in the 25 and % of weeks in the top 5. I think this rate based method is a better representation of who the best programs have been. Because it's a rate stat, it needs a minimum sample size, which I've set at 150 weeks of FCS competition (around 12 seasons). That means many newer programs are not present here.

To answer the question of who the FCS blue bloods are, it's a bit complicated. The fact is, North Dakota State has been so so dominant on a level matched by no one else that putting them in a category with the other blue bloods isn't really fair. They should really be called a purple blood, or something. But for the purposes of this post, we'll throw them in with the others. When you look at the chart, the other top programs seperate themselves from the rest of the subdivision, but while Nevada is in that blue blood area of the chart, I would argue that they are not a blue blood because they never won a championship. The other schools in that part of the chart all have at least two championships.

So with all that in mind, the FCS blue bloods based on the chart are App State, Georgia Southern, Marshall, Montana, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State.

Obviously this is not the objective answer (there isn't one) but it is a fun discussion to have.

To me, the most obvious schools not present are James Madison, who were pretty dominant for a period and won two championships, and Youngstown State, who won 4 championships in the 90s. You could certainly argue in favor of them being blue bloods as well. I'd argue against JMU because being a blue blood is usually defined by relatively sustained excellence, but JMU spent their first ~20-25 years in the FCS being a peripheral power at best. I'd argue against Youngstown State because their peak was relatively short, and they've been good but not great throughout most of their history.

Thanks for sticking with me and reading- this was a fun project that took a while. Once again, the chart(s) and data are posted in the comments.

31 Upvotes

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30

u/Adamscottd South Dakota State • Minnesota 23d ago

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u/Adamscottd South Dakota State • Minnesota 23d ago

The bottom left section of the graph had too many teams to be visable, so I split it off into a smaller, zoomed in chart. The teams from 0%-3% are still pretty tough to make out, but that's almost unavoidable.

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u/Adamscottd South Dakota State • Minnesota 23d ago
RANK School First Season Last Season Total Weeks % Weeks Top 5 % Weeks Top 25
1 North Dakota State 2004 2025 310 69.35% 87.74%
2 Georgia Southern 1984 2013 400 32.00% 74.50%
3 South Dakota State 2004 2026 310 32.58% 72.90%
4 Montana 1978 2026 630 33.49% 72.38%
5 Appalachian State 1982 2013 420 30.95% 72.14%
6 Northern Iowa 1981 2026 599 17.86% 68.95%
7 Villanova 1987 2026 535 12.52% 63.36%
8 Marshall 1982 1996 179 35.20% 63.13%
9 Delaware 1980 2024 594 12.63% 60.94%
10 James Madison 1980 2021 551 18.33% 55.54%
11 Nevada 1978 1991 153 33.99% 54.90%
12 Furman 1982 2026 589 16.13% 51.61%
13 Jacksonville State 1997 2022 366 14.75% 50.82%
14 Idaho 1978 2026 318 16.04% 50.63%
15 New Hampshire 1978 2026 630 7.94% 50.48%
16 McNeese 1982 2026 589 15.62% 50.25%
17 William & Mary 1982 2026 589 6.45% 50.08%
18 Eastern Kentucky 1978 2026 630 13.17% 49.68%
19 Boise State 1978 1995 206 7.77% 48.54%
20 Youngstown State 1981 2026 599 11.52% 48.41%
21 Middle Tennessee 1978 1998 247 12.96% 46.15%
22 UMass 1978 2011 432 9.03% 46.06%
23 Eastern Washington 1984 2026 569 13.18% 45.69%
24 Central Arkansas 2006 2026 282 2.13% 45.04%
25 Western Kentucky 1978 2007 376 10.64% 44.95%
26 Richmond 1982 2026 589 6.11% 43.80%
27 Hofstra 1993 2009 240 3.75% 42.92%
28 Montana State 1978 2026 630 15.71% 41.43%
29 Coastal Carolina 2003 2016 199 12.56% 41.21%
30 Wofford 1995 2026 438 4.79% 39.95%
31 UC Davis 2007 2026 268 4.85% 38.06%
32 Sam Houston 1986 2022 503 15.90% 37.77%
33 North Texas 1982 1994 151 13.25% 36.42%
34 North Dakota 2008 2026 254 1.18% 35.83%
35 Incarnate Word 2013 2026 184 3.26% 35.33%
36 Southern Illinois 1982 2026 589 9.34% 34.97%
37 Eastern Illinois 1981 2026 599 4.17% 32.55%
38 Western Illinois 1981 2026 599 7.01% 32.39%
39 Illinois State 1982 2026 589 4.24% 31.92%
40 Lehigh 1978 2026 630 4.44% 31.90%
41 Northern Arizona 1978 2026 630 0.95% 31.59%
42 Stephen F Austin 1986 2026 547 6.03% 31.44%
43 Jackson State 1978 2026 630 6.35% 30.79%
44 Boston University 1978 1997 233 7.73% 29.61%
45 South Dakota 2008 2026 254 7.87% 29.53%
46 Grambling State 1978 2026 630 4.76% 29.37%
47 Cal Poly 1994 2026 451 3.33% 28.16%
48 Mercer 2013 2026 184 0.00% 27.17%
49 Florida A&M 1978 2026 630 3.49% 27.14%
50 Elon 1999 2026 383 0.78% 24.54%
51 Weber State 1978 2026 630 4.76% 24.13%
52 Northwestern State 1978 2026 630 1.90% 22.70%
53 Chattanooga 1982 2026 589 1.19% 22.24%
54 NCA&T 1978 2026 630 0.79% 21.90%
55 Holy Cross 1982 2026 589 8.83% 21.90%
56 SE Louisiana 1980 2026 387 1.03% 21.45%
57 Hampton 1997 2026 410 3.17% 20.24%
58 Liberty 1989 2017 400 0.00% 19.75%
59 Maine 1978 2026 630 1.90% 19.21%
60 Tennessee State 1981 2026 599 3.67% 18.70%
61 Connecticut 1978 2001 290 1.38% 18.62%
62 SC State 1978 2026 630 3.97% 18.57%
63 Southern 1978 2026 630 0.95% 18.57%
64 Harvard 1982 2026 589 0.00% 18.34%
65 Portland State 1978 2026 428 1.40% 17.99%
66 Colgate 1982 2026 589 1.36% 17.66%
67 Murray State 1978 2026 630 4.44% 17.62%
68 Penn 1982 2026 589 0.00% 17.32%
69 Nicholls 1980 2026 609 0.16% 16.26%
70 Rhode Island 1978 2026 630 0.63% 16.19%
71 ETSU 1982 2026 433 0.00% 15.94%
72 Texas State 1984 2011 371 0.81% 15.90%
73 Abilene Christian 2013 2026 184 0.00% 15.22%
74 Missouri State 1982 2024 574 2.09% 15.16%
75 Samford 1989 2026 512 0.00% 14.65%
76 Bethune Cookman 1980 2026 609 0.16% 14.61%
77 Stony Brook 1999 2026 383 0.00% 14.10%
78 Citadel 1982 2026 589 1.87% 13.92%
79 Towson 1987 2026 535 1.68% 13.83%
80 Fordham 1989 2026 512 0.20% 13.67%
81 Sacramento State 1993 2025 465 3.44% 13.33%
82 SE Missouri State 1990 2026 501 0.00% 12.77%
83 UT Martin 1992 2026 477 0.00% 12.58%
84 Indiana State 1982 2026 589 1.87% 12.39%
85 Western Carolina 1982 2026 589 0.00% 11.88%
86 NC Central 2011 2026 211 0.00% 11.85%
87 Idaho State 1978 2026 630 1.90% 10.95%
88 Alcorn State 1978 2026 630 1.27% 9.37%
89 Albany 1999 2026 383 0.26% 8.88%
90 Northeastern 1978 2009 405 0.74% 8.40%
91 Delaware State 1978 2026 630 0.00% 7.62%
92 Lafayette 1978 2026 630 0.16% 7.46%
93 Princeton 1982 2026 589 0.00% 7.30%
94 Monmouth 1994 2026 451 0.00% 7.10%
95 Charleston Southern 1993 2026 465 0.00% 6.88%
96 Lamar 1982 2026 313 0.00% 6.39%
97 Tennessee Tech 1978 2026 630 0.32% 6.35%
98 Dartmouth 1982 2026 589 0.00% 5.94%
99 Austin Peay 1978 2026 630 0.00% 5.71%
100 Alabama State 1982 2026 589 0.68% 4.92%
101 Howard 1978 2026 630 0.00% 4.44%
102 Yale 1982 2026 589 0.00% 4.41%
103 Southern Utah 1993 2026 465 0.00% 4.09%
104 San Diego 1993 2026 465 0.00% 3.23%
105 Miss Valley State 1980 2026 609 0.33% 3.12%
106 VMI 1982 2026 589 0.00% 2.72%
107 Presbyterian 2007 2026 268 0.00% 2.61%
108 Central Conn State 1993 2026 465 0.00% 2.37%
109 Dayton 1993 2026 465 0.00% 2.37%
110 Gardner Webb 2002 2026 340 0.00% 2.35%
111 Alabama A&M 1999 2026 383 0.00% 2.35%
112 Northern Colorado 2007 2026 268 0.00% 1.87%
113 Prairie View 1978 2026 630 0.00% 1.75%
114 Duquesne 1993 2026 465 0.00% 1.51%
115 Norfolk State 1997 2026 410 0.00% 1.46%
116 Brown 1982 2026 589 0.00% 1.36%
117 Bryant 2008 2026 254 0.00% 1.18%
118 Morehead State 1978 2026 630 0.63% 1.11%
119 Bucknell 1978 2026 630 0.00% 0.79%
120 Sacred Heart 1999 2026 383 0.00% 0.78%
121 Cornell 1982 2026 589 0.00% 0.68%
122 Texas Southern 1978 2026 630 0.00% 0.32%
123 Arkansas Pine Bluff 1998 2026 397 0.00% 0.25%
124 Robert Morris 1998 2026 397 0.00% 0.25%
125 Saint Francis 1993 2025 465 0.00% 0.22%
126 Wagner 1993 2026 465 0.00% 0.22%
127 Columbia 1982 2026 589 0.00% 0.17%
128 Davidson 1978 2026 605 0.00% 0.17%

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u/ST_Lawson Western Illinois • Marching Band 23d ago edited 23d ago
  • 36 Southern Illinois 1982 2026 589 9.34% 34.97%
  • 37 Eastern Illinois 1981 2026 599 4.17% 32.55%
  • 38 Western Illinois 1981 2026 599 7.01% 32.39%
  • 39 Illinois State 1982 2026 589 4.24% 31.92%

We Illinois schools like to stick together

Also just adds more similarities to WIU and EIU. Similar-sized universities in similar-sized towns. Exact same number of weeks on the top 25 in the exact same timeframe.

Do you know where the first Jimmy John's shop was? Essentially across the street from EIU. Do you know where the second Jimmy John's shop was? Three blocks from WIU.

10

u/Adamscottd South Dakota State • Minnesota 23d ago

That's funny, I didn't even realize that.

Now you're just missing NIU. Why are they FBS while the rest of you are FCS anyways? On paper they don't seem that different from say, Illinois State

7

u/ST_Lawson Western Illinois • Marching Band 23d ago

If I had to guess, I'd say it was the size of the school in the mid-70s and early 80s. History lesson incoming...

We all used to be together in the IIAC until the early 60s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Intercollegiate_Athletic_Conference

NIU went DI independent for a while and joined the DI MAC in '73. Left for a bit (independent, then Big West), but came back, then recently jumped to the Mountain West.

EIU and WIU went DII independent and then joined (along with Akron, UNI, Northern Michigan, YSU, and Wayne State) the DII Mid-Continent Athletic Association (a DII football-only conference that eventually moved to I-AA in 1981, added other sports in 82, dropped football in 84, became the Mid-Con Conference in 89, then eventually the Summit League in '07).

ISU and SIU migrated over to the DI MVC when they still had football. That league dropped football in '85, and ISU and SIU joined WIU and EIU (along with UNI and Missouri State... then SW MO State), forming the Gateway Conference, which was I-AA at the time.

I don't have enrollment numbers from back in the 70s/80s, but I know that as of 2004, NIU had about 5k more students than ISU did. With their proximity to Chicago, it probably seemed like NIU would end up being the other "big" state school behind U of I. Since the early '00s though, the enrollment at the directionals has declined significantly while ISU's has held very steady (between 20k and 22k for the last 25 years). NIU now has 5k fewer students than ISU.

TLDR - NIU was larger than everyone else in the 70s and 80s, joined a I-A conference then, and stayed at that level. Everyone else joined a I-AA conference in the early 80s and stayed at that level, even though ISU is now larger.

5

u/TheScreamingBitch 23d ago

ISU was about the same size in 1980 as it is now.

2

u/ST_Lawson Western Illinois • Marching Band 23d ago

That's what I figured. I know WIU didn't change much from the early '80s to the early '00s, so I assumed most of the other schools didn't either.

1

u/OldSalukiBandDude Southern Illinois • Marching Band 22d ago

Southern was around 24K students when I was a student there in the 80's. Now, it's up to about 12K.

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u/OldSalukiBandDude Southern Illinois • Marching Band 22d ago

The inspiration for Jimmy John's was a sandwich shop in Carbondale named Booby's. It was closed for a number of years but was reopened a couple of years ago.

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u/hman1500 Austin Peay Governors • Marching Band 23d ago

Woo top 100

3

u/theReluctantHipster Troy Trojans • /r/CFB Contributor 23d ago

Where is Troy State?

6

u/Adamscottd South Dakota State • Minnesota 23d ago

Troy was in the FCS from 1993 to 2000, and fell about 25 weeks short of the 150 week minimum to be included.

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u/theReluctantHipster Troy Trojans • /r/CFB Contributor 22d ago

Dang. Fair enough.

2

u/SnakesRewind31 Northern Arizona Lumberjacks 23d ago

i think everyone in the fbs currently has to go, we should start it at ohh i dont know, 41?

5

u/damnyoutuesday Montana State • Minnesota 23d ago

When the hell was Northern Colorado ranked?

8

u/Adamscottd South Dakota State • Minnesota 23d ago

Weeks 11-14 in 2003 (which was their first season in the FCS), as well as week 1 in 2004. They went 9-2 in 2003.

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u/Friendly_Loss1961 Montana Grizzlies 23d ago

It's even wilder when you realize NDSU joined the FCS in 2004!

14

u/damnyoutuesday Montana State • Minnesota 23d ago

They became playoff eligible in 2008, had a mid season then and one truly bad season in '09 (their third losing season since 1964), made the playoffs in 2010, and then started their dynasty in 2011 winning 10 of the next 14 championships before moving to FBS

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u/Trojann2 /r/CFB Pint Glass Drinker 23d ago

Those 5 years without playoff eligibility may have been some of our best teams, too.

That 5 year probationary period sucks

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u/Friendly_Loss1961 Montana Grizzlies 23d ago

It really only makes sense for teams moving down. I never understood the logic for punishing teams that moved up.

6

u/Trojann2 /r/CFB Pint Glass Drinker 23d ago

It’s because the the D2 standards vs D1 clearinghouse standards etc are pretty different

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u/damnyoutuesday Montana State • Minnesota 23d ago

It's the dumbest rule. I'm glad they got rid of it for FBS, but it needs to be the same for FCS.

Also what the hell happened in '09?

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u/RandomFactUser France Les Bluets • USA Eagles 23d ago

It’s actually done because D2 and D1 standards are actually different

It’s also only 3 years these days

The only reason St Thomas had 5 was because they were using the planned D3 to D1 pathway

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u/Trojann2 /r/CFB Pint Glass Drinker 23d ago

I’m assuming it hasn’t changed for D2 to FCS since “it’s such a paradigm shift”

But when you pay $5m…let us in mofos

2009, Bohl admitted that we didn’t have the mindset for MVFC play after coming from the Great West

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u/Particular_Prior5344 South Dakota State Jackrabbits 23d ago

Idk I thought 2009 was pretty great, minus whatever happened in Missoula.

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u/Trojann2 /r/CFB Pint Glass Drinker 23d ago

Basically off the charts. Damn

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u/Adamscottd South Dakota State • Minnesota 23d ago

Yeah NDSU was where I set the bounds of the graph lol

4

u/Iceland260 FCS 23d ago

The chart is scaled to their position.

They are quite an outlier though.

32

u/damnyoutuesday Montana State • Minnesota 23d ago

Ah yes, our friendly reminder that Montana State was ass for 20 years

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u/Friendly_Loss1961 Montana Grizzlies 23d ago

The good ole days.... sigh....

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u/damnyoutuesday Montana State • Minnesota 23d ago

Idk what you're talking about, the good ole days are right now!

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u/ripdoublewide Montana Grizzlies 23d ago

Sees a thread talking about FCS history

How can I make this about me???

Typical Bobcat mentality. Be quiet little bro we're reminiscing in here /s

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u/Odd-Hat-1411 Furman Paladins 23d ago

TLDR: Nevada is the Oregon of FCS.

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u/ripdoublewide Montana Grizzlies 23d ago

Griz and South Dakota state out here like

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u/Friendly_Loss1961 Montana Grizzlies 23d ago

Kinda makes me sad that 6 of the top 10 are in FBS now. The 2000's when App State, GA Southern, JMU, Delaware and the Griz were all really good. It was really the golden age for FCS football before NDSU came and ruined it.

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u/Friendly_Loss1961 Montana Grizzlies 23d ago

Deleted your comment u/Trojann2 but i wrote it out so now you gotta read it

yeah ruined all the fun parity we used to have. for 20 years we had blueblood programs battling it out in the playoffs every season. Some great matchups and fun games especially in the Semifinals. Even when App State took 3 in a row it was never a lock that they were going to win it. Then the evil empire took over and it became which team had the honor of losing to NDSU that season from 2010 on. If you got put into NDSU's side of the bracket and you're just like welp fun season everybody see you next year.

I will say it's been really fun to be able to root for NDSU again now that you're up in FBS.

6

u/IrexUranus 23d ago

What's really insane is that NDSU was only in FCS for something like 6 years before they became the dominant program.

And they look like they are serious contenders for the MW title this year already. It would be absolutely bonkers if they ended up going undefeated and making the playoff.

7

u/damnyoutuesday Montana State • Minnesota 23d ago

Their football history is wild. They've essentially always been good. Their all time winning pct is .673, they have 18 total national championships (3 small college, 5 D2, 10 FCS), and 38 conference championships. They also have only had 3 losing seasons since 1964, which is absolutely insane.

For comparison, Ohio State has a win pct of .736, 16 national titles (only 9 are claimed), and 41 conference titles. They also have only had 3 losing seasons since 1964.

The Bison are essentially mini Ohio State

5

u/Vivid_Artichoke_9991 Northern Iowa Panthers 23d ago

In collge sports the term 'Blue Blood" is something that takes many decades. Nebraska is a blue blood. Oregon is not. Some did this analysis a month ago under the [correct] interpretation of the Blue Blood term. Even NDSU would not be considered a Blue Blood under the definition. https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/s/Znx1WfVGP4

Personally, I like your definition better as a way to define who the best programs are. There has been so much turnover in FCS football that the FBS definition of Blue Blood is not he best way to do it.

7

u/Adamscottd South Dakota State • Minnesota 23d ago

Being a blue blood is something that is gained over long periods, no doubt- that's why JMU and Youngstown State are more questionable as FCS blue bloods. But I think if you want to include the FCS in the discussion, you have to tweak your definition of "long periods," because even beyond the fact that many teams have moved up more recently, the subdivision has only existed since 1978, while the FBS blue bloods chart goes back to 1936.

But even if you go based on the raw number of weeks, I still think NDSU is a blue blood even with so many fewer years of compeition.

NDSU is the dot at ~270, ~215. Even with only 22 seasons in the subdivision they still have the most weeks spent in the top five of anyone. I don't see how you can possibly argue against their inclusion even under the traditional definition. Otherwise, Montana would be the only blue blood, which I don't see as an accurate representation of FCS history.

10

u/damnyoutuesday Montana State • Minnesota 23d ago

Also the FBS blue bloods chart, that's the only place those teams have been. They've never had anywhere else to go. Most of the power FCS programs have moved up. The only real "blue blood" FCS team that's been around the entire FCS era is Montana

6

u/Allcross9 Nebraska • South Dakota State 23d ago

You're right, but I just don't think the FBS definition of blue blood works for FCS. Teams that were dominant have pretty much always moved up after a relatively short time period. It is weird to me to see SDSU as a blue blood in this definition. It wasn't that long ago that I was in school and we were a decent to pretty good team, but couldn't get over the NDSU hump in the playoffs.

5

u/SchuLace13 South Dakota State Jackrabbits 22d ago

that NDSU hump was there for a lot of really good teams as well

2

u/Lee-HarveyTeabag Idaho State Bengals • Oklahoma Sooners 23d ago

Imagine having a national title under your belt and barely being in the top 100...

2

u/stayclassypeople Nebraska • South Dakota 23d ago

Regardless of what the charts metrics are, I still consider Montana St a blue blood. You could argue UNI as well. I think they’re still top 5 in playoff wins all time, although that has resulted in 0 playoff wins and they have been slipping recently

8

u/Friendly_Loss1961 Montana Grizzlies 23d ago

Montana State has only been nationally relevant since Vigen took over 6 years ago. They missed the playoffs for 18 straight years following the one season they made the playoffs and won the title in 1984. They didn't even make it to the semi's after that until 2019. They're an elite team this decade unquestionably. But the history is simply not there. That's like arguing that Indiana is an FBS Blue Blood.

9

u/DeKam34 Montana State • Western Wash… 23d ago

Indiana is a dreadfully bad comparison. We're a lot closer to Oregon. One or two random moments of "oh they're winning" up until about 2010 when things start to shift. Oregon's early 2010s stretch of being good is '09-'14 where as ours is really just '10-'12 (with one bad playoff loss and two years running into an SHSU buzzsaw that was just better than us) but the short bad period after and the rise back up in '18 and '19 aligns really well.

Now I wouldn't call Oregon a blue blood either really. I don't think we are either yet. I think the whole concept is sorta too historically focused to be relevant. But let's not pretend that MSU had one incredible season and have been horrific otherwise for the last 15 years like Indiana has.

7

u/Friendly_Loss1961 Montana Grizzlies 23d ago

Fair enough. I was more saying that just because you're at the top now, similar to Indiana, doesn't mean you get the blue blood moniker. And i actually considered using Oregon but Oregon never actually won anything.

3

u/damnyoutuesday Montana State • Minnesota 23d ago

Relative to the charts, the best comp for MSU is probably Clemson?*

*Obviously there's not an exact match

3

u/Friendly_Loss1961 Montana Grizzlies 23d ago

That's a good comp actually because Clemson did spend a while knocking on the door and they lost a natty before they finally got over the hump with Dabo and Watson. But for the 20 years or so before that they were just a middle of the pack team living in the shadow of FSU. And they never really had enough sustained success in their history to be considered a Blue Blood.

3

u/damnyoutuesday Montana State • Minnesota 23d ago

Both MSU and Clemson had a title in the 80s as well, before finally getting over the hump again in the 2010s/20s

1

u/fernandodasilva Brazil Onças • Brown Bears 23d ago

I expected Dartmouth would be at least the third place in the Ivy with all the conference titles they won

-1

u/Bored_Vader 21d ago

Problem is early FBS ratings are turrible. FCS ratings are a joke. For most the season. Might as well ask "what schools have I heard of?" for half of each season. Ranking every week of every season as if they're equal doesn't compute.