r/germany • u/Forward-Raisin-708 • 1d ago
A traffic fine turned from €35 to €235
Hello everyone,
I had an accident two months ago with a Bolt rental car. The other driver changed lanes without signaling or checking his shoulder and hit the middle of my car. To me it was clearly his fault, but when police arrived, they said they couldn't decide whose fault it was because of conflicting stories.
I informed Bolt, and they said their insurance would wait for the police report. A month later, instead of a full report, I received a small fine (€35) saying I was responsible.
I wanted to pay it and move on, but I was worried that paying would be treated as an admission of guilt by Bolt's insurance and make me pay for all the car damage. I asked Bolt if paying would be used against me, but they said they couldn't advise me and just asked for my decision and proof afterwards.
Because of this, I sent an appeal to the police. I explained that I couldn't accept the fine because it was a rental car and accepting fault would put me in trouble with insurance, and I asked again for the report.
A month later, their response came: the fine increased to €235, along with a report concluding that I changed lanes and caused the accident.
Is this fair? I clearly wanted to pay the fine but didn’t want paying it to be used against me by the insurance. I will pay this fine but is there anything I can do to lower this fine?
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u/TheFlying5aucer 1d ago
" I explained that I couldn't accept the fine because it was a rental car and accepting fault would put me in trouble with insurance, and I asked again for the report."
The way you word this makes them think that you are actually at fault.
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u/Forward-Raisin-708 10h ago
I didn’t exactly say this of course. I explained to them what happened and mentioned again that the hit was in the middle of my car while his was in the front. And explained that I ask for reconsideration and my concern with accepting the fine since this is a rental car
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u/InternationalParty42 6h ago
Could you specify what you did actually get the fine for? While damaging someone is laws property can be penalised besides the damage repair, that is part of criminal court procedure.
A fine that can be put on you by a Behörde is usually a misdemeanour (Ordnungswidrigkeit) from the StVO.
Depending on what was the reason for the fine, your reasoning in your appeal (not being at fault for the crash, insurance issues) might not have made any sense considering the action in question.
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u/gismo04 20h ago
Since you have both accused each other of committing an administrative offence, administrative offence proceedings will be initiated against both of you. If you disagree with this, you must file an objection and consult a lawyer.
However, the civil claim, namely the settlement of damages, is a separate matter and is dealt with in a separate procedure.
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u/amfa 16h ago
You are somehow missing a part of the story.
If you don't pay the 35€ (Verwarnungsgeld) you will get an "official" "Bußgeldbescheid" that should be the fine (still 35€) + 25€ fees + 3,50 € postage.
Without seeing the actual letters nobody here can say why they now want to have 235€.
Only from your story it does not make sense.
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u/InternationalParty42 13h ago
I think that’s the point - if you don’t pay the Bußgeldbescheid, but appeal to it you might end up with a higher Bußgeld. Because if the appeal procedure ends with the Bußgeld remaining the administrative costs of the appeal will be added to the Bußgeld. This ‘mechanism’ should be explained in the fine print.
I think that could be what have happens to OP, because their answer might have qualified as an appeal.2
u/amfa 10h ago
No. the administrative costs is 25€ + 3,50€.
You don't go from 35 to 235€ only by that. The appeal does not make it more expensive than that.
Only if you go to court you get additional fees... which are 50€... but the 25€ before are dismissed.
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u/InternationalParty42 6h ago
As far as I understood from the fine print of Bußgeldbescheide in the past, the administrative cost of a appeal procedure (talking about the one done within the administration, that I will trigger if I don’t accept the fine - not talking about court here) is not limited to 25 euros. But I might be wrong.
Also, OP asked for the police report. That might also trigger more fees (in the form of Auslagen) that he’d also be responsible for.
Anyhow … If OP wants an actual answer, the details of the first letter (like what is he actually getting the fine for from which Behörde, etc …) as well as from the second (details of how the 235€ come together) would be helpful. Right now it’s just guesswork, while all the answer are probably already in the letters.
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u/neftha_de 21h ago edited 15h ago
There may also be an additional excess to pay under the Bolt insurance policy, e.g. up to 1000 euros for the BOLT car plus 750 euros for the other car :-/
The appeal has resulted in a fine notice, including a written report, which makes your situation with Bolt Insurance even worse.
If Bolt makes a large claim (e.g. 1,750 EUR): You may wish to seek an initial consultation with a attorney to see if part of it can be avoided; however, this will cost you something if you do not have legal expenses insurance.
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u/OlMi1_YT Nordrhein-Westfalen 1d ago
If you didn't cause the accident you didn't cause the accident, simple as.
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u/IshmaelEatsSushi 1d ago
Not simple as that. Can you prove that to an uninvolved third party or would the statement of the second party sound equally true?
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1d ago edited 21h ago
[deleted]
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u/EitherMessage4670 20h ago
Im Zweifel für den Angeklagten hier sind aber doch beide Angeklagte soll dann einfach niemand zahlen oder wie
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u/ExpensiveTutor4836 17h ago
"Im Zweifel für den Angeklagten" (Innocent until proven guilty) is a principle of the German criminal law and does not apply here.
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u/ILikeToHaveCookies 20h ago
Im Zweifel für den Angeklagten ist just not a thing in this constellation
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u/ggs77 1d ago edited 15h ago
The police also doesn't decide who's at fault, insurance does.
Oh, I thought courts decide who's at fault!
You can learn something new everyday on reddit...
edit: editing your post and not making it clearly visible is kind of a dick move.
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u/P99X 1d ago
Have you been to court in Germany? It’s a f-ing clown show. Nobody goes to court over traffic accidents. Adjusters just pay out or not. If you’re massively defrauded and have tons of money you can waste your time in court (years) and come away with nothing decided apart from insane legal bills.
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u/InternationalParty42 13h ago
A lot of things get mixed up here.
You’re correct, the police doesn’t diced who’s at fault (and technically also not the insurance). But there are several ‘bußgeldtatbestände’ in the StVO, that can be relevant in context of a crash accident. And you can be at fault for violating those rules in context of the crash, but that doesn’t mean you’re at fault for the crash itself.
Often both parties of a crash will get those fines, for example for not correctly securing the site of the crash or by endangering the rest of the traffic (for example by not clearing the street after a so called ‘bagatell Unfall’). § 34 StVO explains how you have to behave after an accident, not complying with those rules can be a Ordnungswidrigkeit per § 49 StVO and those can be penalised as ruled in the Bußgeldkatalog-Verordnung (BKatV). Those penalties are often based on a police record, that’s correct, but it’s not the police giving them out. (In general the ‘bußgeldstelle’ of the municipality is in charge of that. To avoid unnecessary administrative costs the police can do a so called ‘verwarngeld’ (§ 56 OWiG): For minor misdemeanours in traffic the police can ‘offer’ the so called Verwarngeld, which can only be applied for cases that are fined with maximum 55€ in the Bußgeldkatalog. This is done right then and there, or per letter. If you decide to accept the Verwarngeld, which avoids further administrative fees, the behaviour can’t be prosecuted otherwise (§ 56 Abs. 4 OWiG) - the ‘case’ is done. But you’re free to not accept it, which will trigger the ‘full’ procedure by the administration which will make it more expensive if you’re found guilty of the misdemeanour.)According to the current Bußgeldkatalog those ‘typical’ misdemeanours in context of a crash are fined with 30 to 35 euros. So that would match with OPs original fine. Not paying, but answering with something that qualifies as an appeal (or even not paying at all) will trigger a full procedure, making it more expensive. I don’t think accepting a Verwarngeld can be viewed as a ‘Schuldanerkenntnis’ because it’s the rational decision to just pay it.
Also, a penalty regarding the aftermath of the crash (like I suspect here), would have not interfered with the insurance claim - since the claim is about who’s responsible for the crash.
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u/InternationalParty42 17h ago
I’m not commenting on you being at fault for the accident or anything, but there is a ‘mechanism’ in place that might be the main reason for the increase:
If you receive a fine (Bußgeld), the letter (Bußgeldbescheid) will state in the fine print that the (sometimes relatively low fine) is only applicable if you accept it. If you write an appeal against it, and it is decided against you, while technically still getting the same penalty the fine will be higher. Not because ‘your fault’ got bigger but because you caused more work in the system while still ending up ‘guiltily’/ responsible.
It might be that you saying ‘I can’t pay it for external reasons’ and asking for the report qualifies as an appeal. In case of an appeal, you are responsible to show the reasoning/ evidence why the penalty is wrong.
And ‘I might get in trouble with insurance’ doesn’t qualify as a reason that the penalty is wrong, because it’s not part of the facts that go into it. I’m not saying that your at fault for the crash but I think it’s obvious how that reason won’t change the outcome. so the appeal process came to the conclusion that you didn’t show evidence for not being at fault in terms of the penalty, so the fine got higher.
Also, those small fines are part of every crash where the police gets involved. Sometimes even for both parties. I never heard of a case where paying that fine (which is usually tied to the driver on sight, not the car) did influence the insurance case itself. Because it’s obvious that you pay the small fee to close the administrative case, not because you think it’s correct.
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u/RoyalLurker 1d ago
No. You get a rebate for just paying 35 € Verwarngeld. If you do not do that, no matter the reason, you get the full fine. Unfortunate, but sadly it is to late now. You could only try to challenge it somehow.
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u/prog_d0nkey 12h ago
Had a similar situation, called a traffic lawyer and asked if paying the warning could be used against me, she said no, I paid, no trouble for now.
But the whole thing is on trial in a few months anyway because the other guy tries to get money out of it - probably gonna get karma for that lol
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u/Icedkk 1d ago
I dont understand why are you receiving a fine from police? Even if you are on fault, police has no reason to fine you. The insurance would pay and then ask bolt to cover their expense, and in the end bolt should give you a bill, if you have no coverage via your contract with them. Now again why does police fining you?
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u/Difficult_Camel_1119 1d ago
there are fines e.g. if you cause a collision by ignoring the right of way.
Sometimes, there are small fines if you just pay them that could get bigger if police needs to do more investigation (but I can't say anything about the case here)
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u/gismo04 20h ago
The fines are a fixed price that may increase if the Police accuse you of intent.
Then the fine may double.The fine for swapping lanes and causing an accident indeed is 35€.
I really cant explain where the 200€ on top come from. Maybe the price of having the report sent to them? That should count as „akteneinsicht“ which may cost some management fee.
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u/bregus2 18h ago
That should count as „akteneinsicht“ which may cost some management fee.
Akteneinsicht is something you usually need a lawyer for. It is also free because otherwise people might be discouraged from using their rights to defend themselves in court, and the constitutional court really doesn't like that to happen.
The issue is that OP doesn't tell us anything about the higher fine besides that they got one. From who? For what exactly? With what reasoning?
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u/__how 19h ago
Theres a basic 35 fine for violating §1 StVO (which is basically saying you have to pay attention at all times and do everything to avoid risks to others), its so basic that if youre involved in an accident, you are risk on being fined for that.
There are fines for almost every violation of StVO, and they rise if you endanger someone ("mit Gefährdung"), cause harm to something ("mit Sachbeschädigung") or caused it ("mit Unfallfolge").
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bkatv_2013/anlage.html
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bkatv_2013/anhang_3.html
also, Fines can double if police claims intent by the driver.
The 235 number is odd though, if it IS coming from policy and is the exact fine, its probably more complex than just one single fine, but since OP did not specify, it would mean guessing (which doesnt make sense to me, lay the facts out or dont expect insight).
as someone else said, talk to a lawyer who can look at the full facts and advise on (also future) risks.
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u/bregus2 1d ago
You need a lawyer for traffic law. Yesterday.