r/hatethissmug • u/TextualArchitect • 8h ago
Gaming I hate how quickly AI is defining the future of game development
Was really looking forward to Drunken Goddess Reflux specifically but now it seems like we won't even get an inkling of content to look forward to until they decide to shadowdrop the full game.
People make me sick, we can't have anything nice in this world anymore. This is like that time travel idea everyone has, the one where someone wants to go back in time and pitch a popular idea that exists today first so they can take the credit and riches it eventually earns, BUT WITHOUT THE TIME MACHINE AND IT'S HAPPENING NOW.
As an aspiring game developer myself, this terrifies me. I've had ideas of doing things the Deltarune way where I could have things released in chapters, and others like releasing the first part as a pitch and then perhaps doing a Kickstarter to help expedite development (of course following through with the game regardless of its success, it would just grant the opportunity to really focus on things without the need to worry for other obligations as much), but not anymore.
You can't even pitch an idea or show a gameplay trailer anymore without the risk of someone stealing it and making their own, which has always been a thing, but can now be fully fleshed out within a matter of DAYS.
To anyone aspiring to create anything anymore, keep your ideas closely guarded and try to take any precaution to make sure your work is definitively tied to you.
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u/just___user 7h ago
wasnt ai supposed to do all the mundane work so we have more time for creativeness? now we STILL have to do mundane work AND ai steals creativity. truly amazing times
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u/VisscaGuu 5h ago
THIS, AI could have been a great tool to waste less time doing repetitive actions or mundane like you put it, but its become just a cheap way for companies and skill-less people to make some quick profit with no effort while taking from real artists. Genuinely so goddamn depressing
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u/Different_Target_228 4h ago
With rich people in charge, it was never going to be for the laymen.
Until Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft start shitting bricks because of new porting capabilities.
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u/IcebrgsImakevid8345 8h ago
I hope all these games that use the AI to steal other people's games to paste them onto Roblox's games do terrible cuz it's so annoying seeing people do this. The mods or game fusions with the AI are cool at times but stealing other people's games just to make some quick buck on Roblox is not at all cool
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u/VMelain 6h ago
Roblox games always end up getting more money than the original, sadly
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u/Hugs-missed 5h ago
How the hell does that even work actually, where is the money for shitty derivatives spawning from
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u/VMelain 5h ago
The original concept is simple enough, the roblox dev team copies it, simplifies it even further, adds predatory anti consumer practices like: Gacha!!! Buy this egg and get pet that gives x999 stats! Only 1% chance though. And then this pet is powercrept when you unlock it by another pet! Or buy this x2 currency and then this x3 currency for x6!! And buy this other basic QoL and this other one, or buy this amazing robux only permanent buff or why not buy everything at once???
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u/Hugs-missed 4h ago
Is there a reason kids don't just, purchase the actual game
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u/IcebrgsImakevid8345 3h ago
Actually as someone who has a little cousin who's addicted to Roblox, there's no other game they want. They will gladly only play Roblox because of it having so many types of games. I've offered them all kinds of games but once I walk away they go straight to Roblox.
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u/Panurome 2h ago
Yes, there's a reason. Kids start playing Roblox because the game is free and other games aren't, then they get addicted/used to playing on Roblox to the point that it's the only game they play, and then they start asking their parents for money for Roblox. It starts small, like a dollar here and there, and then you realize they are asking for 50$ Robux gift cards (the game's currency) instead of buying actual games
They are too used to Roblox so they don't know there's other and better games outside
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u/Internal_Review7040 8h ago
If the law allows for it, it is possible to sue people indeed for theft of intellectual property. It depends tho on what the law says in the specific case. Its been a thing internationally for years, mainly with developing industries of developing countries copying off more succesful western productions, but even in western industries copies are a dozen and always have been. Now AI is letting less able copycats to steal ideas and make much higher level copies of the original product, but the practice of judt stealing ideas has always been a thing.
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u/Steven_Broyles 7h ago
There used to be this idea that “Ideas are cheap, the execution is what matters” to have a successful project. “Nobody is gonna steal your idea because only you care enough to take the time to make it well, with passion.” Now ideas are still cheap and the execution is also cheap, arguably cheaper, so stealing the idea becomes an enticing concept for assholes who just want to profit without any concept of morality.
Society is already trending towards hatred of others, profit at all costs, and rampant individualism and Gen-AI is undoubtedly accelerating that trend
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u/Plutonium1337 8h ago
Because we have an administration making bank off of ai companies
bribinglobbying to keep it legal so they can keep promoting it.19
u/JustWuff 7h ago
Corruption.
Simple as that.
The Tech Oligarchs have enough money to bribe the people in charge to shut the fuck up or better yet already control them to begin with and they have no reason to disobey their overlords.
America already was filled with this and only got worse but the EU is not faring much better sadly... so two major potential regulators are gone and the rest of the world is either too small to make a real push for it or is already part of the ones creating the problem to begin with... like China.
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u/RaulParson 6h ago edited 6h ago
Naw that's dumb. This isn't "corruption", this is "legislature moves slow, the tech moves fast, and the gap between them is filled with rot and keeps growing larger". Here's four other things to consider:
- Who tf would have even considered "yeah better not show your work-in-progress game to anyone in public or someone will shit out a slopclone of it in hours and steal all the thunder (and money) from your idea" would be an actual real life concern.
- Too quickly and heavy-handedly blocking people from doing things in styles and ideas of others would wreck art. Covers of songs are something everyone's more than fine with, yet too aggressively shutting what's happening here could absolutely have side effects like making those illegal too.
- Any effort to block this nonsense would absolutely need to be cooperative, coordinated and international, and the Current Moment is very much not that.
- There exists a mechanism already in place which maybe maybe-not could help the situation if deployed, software patents. It's well despised for a reason, famously being responsible for some really shitty cases of companies grabbing such a patent and then sitting on it for decades, stifling innovation.
These things are pretty huge considerations which have nothing to do with how They want it to be this way. Nobody needs to be bribed for any of it.
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u/Sharkbit2024 4h ago
I mean, since the AI version is made so much quicker, its possible they can copyright the game before the actual creator. AI is such a cancer on society.
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u/Zestyclose-Chard6979 8h ago
Aww this is how I find out? Cmon I was looking forward to playing the demo. Fuck AI
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u/AmbitiousPlanta01 8h ago
The worst part is that the actual developers gets punished while AI slop gets rewarded.
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u/Successful-Cut-8233 8h ago edited 8h ago
I won't understand people who support generative AI.
If you are a pro-generative AI, give me reasons why you support it. I won't criticize I swear.
(Edit: I meant the AI that generates images or other forms of it etc. Sorry if I worded it wrong)
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u/weidback 8h ago
I use llms to code at work and for my own projects.
the fact is a coding agent will type faster than I ever can and I can build what I want faster. what joy I get out of programming is about problem solving and designing systems, not actually typing shit out. I'm not offloading design to claude, I'm designing the specs where I determine how I want something built before working with claude.
claude can also catch issues in my designs that I otherwise wouldn't have caught much much later and would have had to fix with a lot of refactoring.
also when I'm creating assets in blender claude + an mcp is pretty useful. like recently I was working on a modular building set, and when some vertices got misaligned I was able to ask claude to look at all the objects I had selected and to re-align all the vertices to global 0.1 grid increments.
claude + a godot mcp is nice because if I need to scaffold out a scene in godot and it's very repetitive I can just describe what I need to claude, it can add nodes and adjust their attributes, and any delta between what it does and what I want is easy for me to handle. saves a lot of time.
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u/MountainGloomy7947 8h ago
I kinda do the same. I love being able to test my ideas and develop instead of the tedious work I used to do years before LLMs. It was so costly and time consuming to accomplish things I used to do years ago now only barrier is actual creativity and design.
Besides coding AI is also very good for small things like cooking, book recommendations, just goofing around in games with LLM npcs
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u/Flimsy-Secret-6187 7h ago
i respect ai assisted coding. ai should be kept as a tool
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u/Oboro-kun 6h ago
The thing is this is foolish, As long as you keep using it, it keeps getting trained on what you do.
Weidback might get his joy of problem solving, but his employer (should he have one) gets his joy out of paying as little as possible most of the time.
So as long as the LLM keep getting money invested, and try too hook people in and offer insanely low prices at a lower price. Most companies are salviating at the idea doing their product or service with no people and salaries getting in the way. They will throw you out as soon as their can.
This person as other person jumping fully into it, are training their replacements just to avoid the harder times and fully welcoming a Technofeudalist state in the future, and that if we are lucky.
AI cant and will never be just a Tool in a capitalist envioroment and being privately owned as most with private earnings but socialized losses. That is without going into the actual awful and evil shit is clearly going to be used. Like Mass Manipulations.
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u/NoenD_i0 5h ago
if it keeps training on my code by 2030 the only game it will be able to produce is yandere simulator
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u/whitebird490 6h ago
honestly, it just depends on WHY you use it or rather intent
The entire surge with AI did lead to more interesting projects: Bloodborne on PC, PS5 emulator development being developed at insane rate, Tekken 6, (and older games) being revived due to the PC port with rollback netcode (a revolutionary netcode for fighting games that made it more playable especially if you're playing against players from other side of the planet, the first proper fighting game to implement this was Guilty Gear Strive, released in 2021, so older games don't officially have it, though fightcade popular for implementing this, though this predated genAI), as well as Forza Horizon games before 3 (and FM titles), native ports of PC games to mobile, so on and so forth. You can argue legal shit on this, but it's not like they claimed they created Bloodborne to begin with, they just made it playable on PC.
This one is just plain inexcusable because it's just straight up stealing the ideas you saw from SOMEONE ELSE however.
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u/Awkward_Turnover_983 6h ago
I don't think you can have it without the stealing. Not in this era.
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u/HeLenochka231 3h ago
Because things aren’t exclusively black and white and as many good things there are about anything there are as many bad things about it
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u/Eltrim89 6h ago
The problem is simple, AI is a tool meant to help people do what they want to do easier. For better or for worse, people do just that. Image generating AI could be used to make a quick draft to express a general idea you want made by an artist, code writing AIs can help debug code or make simple prototypes to test an idea, and so on so forth.
Now the messy part. The people who use those tools for more harmful tasks. Like using AI to pretend to be an artist to take people's money, or to steal the skeleton of a game to repurpose as their own, or other ideas I won't mention.
But the single best reason for Generative AI? It is used to help algorithmic AI do spectacular things, like that AI in Japan made to determine between different types of baked goods that also found exceptional use detecting Cancer cells.
So maybe the point isn't to hate AI, but hate the people using it wrongly.
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u/gallyroi 6h ago
I mean, let's take a difffernt example: Radio waves/EMF is a powerful technology, ubiquitous, accessible, and the tech is cheap. You can broadcast your own FM radio station, build secret nationwide walkie talkies just for you and your friends, or even host networks to steal info from anyone who connects, like a stingray, all with off the shelf tech. Yet, if you were to do those things, you would be triangulated, tracked, and arrested/charged because the potential for misuse and harm is too great. I think AI, if possible, will have to be similarly regulated. How did we ever think giving everyone in the world this much unfettered analytical, creative, and generative power was a good idea? We still havent seen the worst of how this is gonna revolutionize the scams and raids of the lowest common denominators.
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u/Quantum-Bot 6h ago
I agree that it’s what people do with the tech that’s bad, not the tech itself. I wanna point out that the example you pulled is not generative AI though, that’s a computer vision model
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u/Sea_Candidate7894 6h ago
Generative ai as a tool is still built on the unethical stealing of millions of people’s work, not to mention the harm done to the environment. Maybe if it had been trained without stealing, and was usable without harming the environment, this would be different.
But that’s not the case, so I absolutely think the problem lies with generative ai and the people who shamelessly refuse to respect any creator’s boundaries with their work.
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u/_Fauxpaw 3h ago
What do you mean stolen?
The only thing AI did was look at publicly available material, and learned to understand how language and imagery work. It didn't copy or store any of the original files.
From that data, it synthesises new material. That's how humans work, too. Humans do not magically populate new ideas into being, every idea traces from a previously observed one.
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u/dragonyfox 45m ago
multiple websites were scraped without being asked- archive of our own being one of them and is a large portion of why a lot ai writing reads the same, because it's using an absolute obscene number of works that all use a shared 'dialect' of being fanfiction. things being public on the website they were posted on doesn't mean it's free for anyone to copy onto other platforms
it's like when you were in school and you made this super cool project for class, but another classmate read all your work and used it to copy your project for the same grade. it's upsetting to get the same grade as a cheater, and to find out they used YOUR work is just that cherry on top of the offended sundae.
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u/Mutant_Apollo 6h ago
There's no ethical consumption or production for anything under capitalism
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u/Kitchen_Deer_2493 6h ago
That doesn't mean give all the way up and let the evil thing be used indiscriminately. There are necessary evils you have to engage with in order to survive - buying groceries from a monopoly because otherwise you'd starve, using gasoline because you have to work. You can absolutely 100% survive and thrive without the use of LLMs and generative AI.
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u/Main-Discussion9294 8h ago
Because I'm a piece of shit refusing to put any form of effort in anything
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u/Olmectron 8h ago
Oh, yeah, just the "give me a cool game copying that game" prompt, it works 100% all the time.
/s
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u/ISketchDinosaurs 6h ago
Dude, if they can do in 24 hours what takes a game dev potentially years to do from scratch, then no, they're not putting in any effort.
These people aren't even using promptss to make similar games, they're just copying them straight out, using AI to make the asset theft illegal because there isn't an artist or coder to actually sue. They're not even putting effort into prompting.
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u/JustAnotherGuy101010 7h ago
I think its fantastic for quick prototypes to see whether an idea is good. Rather than spending days or weeks to realize your idea is junk...
Unfortunately, with powerful tools comes abuse and misuse though...
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u/AHyperParko 5h ago
The problem is that for every one person who may use AI to experiment and mess around with an idea before committing resources to it, there are going to be way more who get something barebones/barely functional and then call it a day.
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u/One-Desk-1 8h ago
I'm not fully pro-gen AI, but I'll give a few reasons.
1) it helps me with proof reading. I'm writing a story. Asking Claude to go through it for inconsistencies is super useful. But i NEVER use the AI's generated content in my story. 2) it helps me to find weak points in my writing. If it tells me that a specific bit feels too simple or too long, I can go ahead and fix that. I NEVER use what the AI generates as a fix. I fix it with my own words. 3) nobody is available 24/7. Obviously. I want to feel like my work is being appreciated, so I ask ai to read through it and give me criticism (Claude says it's like a 7/10, and Claude is possibly the least biased AI I've ever seen). It makes me feel good I guess. 4) I don't want anyone to use AI to straight up generate everything and steal stuff. If AI was removed to stop these people, I'd be happy to write without help. But since it's a tool that's available, I'm using it just as I'd use an auto-correct program.
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u/zabrowski 7h ago
Frankly, you're insane. Asking an AI to read your book and give feedback like... Claude is not a real person. He has no sensibilities to life or art.
And why believe an AI when it say that bit is too long or simple? Why believe it when it say it 7/10?
Insane.
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u/Planetguide 7h ago
I’d imagine the user is not asking Claude to analyze themes and subtext. Mainly spelling, grammar, and maybe character voice (writing in accents and such).
I agree with you on AI not having a soul and that it should not be used to write by itself, but when there are common, rigid rules and you know how to have it suggest rather than edit, it can be a nice time save and good for suggestions.
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u/Chemical_Alfalfa24 6h ago
lol… the AI isn’t writing the book for them. It is helping them with grammar, tone, word choice, etc. It’s like having your own editor on hand. It doesn’t force you to make choices or rewrite things. It provides brain storming.
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u/One-Desk-1 6h ago
I ask the AI about the story's consistencies, grammar, improper use of words, and things like that. Like, if I had a character get hurt on the leg and next paragraph their walking fine and I somehow didn't notice, the AI would notice. And that's helpful. You don't really need Soul to notice that.
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u/Mutant_Apollo 6h ago
It has no sensibilites yes, but for better or worse it has been trained with all the knowledge needed to give that feedback. What they are doing (and what I do as well) is using Claude as a developmental editor.
And finding a plothole, a character out of nowhere doing a 180 on their personality next chapter, mentioning a chekov's gun only to never talk about it again, overall tone and prose are easy to analyze objectively - Like if I'm in a writing class and that's what the teacher is grading he wouldn't care if my story is good overall, he needs to check the technical parts of it.
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u/IFIsc 7h ago
I think you can still get some objective feedback from it. There is no need for taste or life experience to notice obvious plot holes, maybe a character you previously described as partially disabled outruns a murderer without any help.
But the "7/10" rating is complete nonsense, yes. Especially from claude, with its "ethical" control-freak CEO's """"personality"""" baked into its weights
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u/435rouhnj234_209u 6h ago
It works.
It's cheap.
It's quick.
I can still create my own art from scratch as a hobby, so idc about "omg the soul" and stuff.
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u/Decent-Emergency3866 8h ago
I mean, I support it because it helps me in daily life and overall make stuff that would take me usually hours to do done in minutes but mfs like these make us look very bad, bad is understatement
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u/TextualArchitect 8h ago
I've always thought AI is fine as a tool, to help with a rough concept or to help optimize things, but that things ultimately fall onto the developers to fix, finely detail, and polish from there. What I've never liked is the ability to do something like type in a prompt or take video footage of gameplay and be like "make this." That's just blatant laziness and theft.
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u/operatingcan 6h ago
Yes, AI doesn't replace the value of caring about things. Caring deeply about the stuff you're making has basically always shone through as important (Just a larger swamp of careless junk to wade through these days)
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u/ConfectionTotal8660 6h ago
I don't support generative AI but I understand it's use for small stuff or dumb stuff.
Like, nobody will complain if DougDoug uses an AI like ChatGPT to be a DM for his D&D session with his chat because he is not using it for profit* and also most of the "art" comes from the interaction betwen Doug and his chat.
But if you use it to copy other people's "art" and make their art "wortheless" and the idea or the full concept isn't your own, then you are an asshole.
But a gray area is using AI to code or to help with the coding.
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u/JorgitoEstrella 4h ago
AI is the future, the same as the invention of computers made us do more and better work that allowed us to do even more and new creative things like music programs, games, image editors, 3d sculpting, etc.
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u/Impressive-Finger316 4h ago
Isnt it apparently quite good in Healthcare? don't flame me I don't know much
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u/KeyRevolutionary5731 8h ago
This is reverse engineering, not generative.
Generative isnt nearly as harmful as engineering because it cant recompile the entire game. Bloodborne got "ported" to pc because they remade the entire game with AI, thats the problematic part.
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u/CoffeeDefiant4247 8h ago
AI helping in game creation is the only way we have Bloodborne on PC
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u/Organic_Education494 8h ago
No it isn’t it can be done without AI
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u/CringyDabBoi6969 7h ago
anything can be done without ai, just like programming can be done without an ide, you can write in notepad.
ai is about convenience and efficiency, doing something faster (even at a slight loss in quality) lets you do more things.
if you can only do lets say 10 things a day, and you want to undertake a project that takes idk like 30000 things to do, then you either dedicate 3-6 years of your life, or you simply not do it.
now if the ai can help you get that up to 100-200 things a day then you can feasibly do that in a couple of months.
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u/Nakalon 7h ago
I usually don't comment on this but as a musician with video and image editing experience that uses AI almost daily I think I can contribute.
Personally, having been involved in a lot of editing work I wasn't passionate about I got tired of it mostly.
Today, if I want to do something for myself I'm not 100% passionate about I can just tell chat GPT to do X.
For the things I'm passionate about it helps me work out concepts. Usually ChatGPT has horrible ideas. But some are so out of pocket it fires some neuron in a completely unrelated way. Just recently I generated a lot of cards for a game I'm working on on ChatGPT but then went to Photoshop to create a template for the whole thing.
I'm the artistic side, I used to have my own art style with a lot of collages I did. Now it's kind of pointless with AI being able to replicate what I did easily. I don't mind it too much. But style is no longer a part of the creative process. Just you getting to X idea (or someone else). If that makes any sense.
Now what I absolutely despise is AI music. I don't mind you making an AI music for fun or for your YouTube channel.
Using AI when the alternative would be expensive is okay in my view.
What's not okay is posting that shit and calling it music. Creating an "Artist". My father listens to this shit on repeat knowing it's AI. But he says "they just don't make music like this anymore".
AI is a lazy tool for lazy work. In my view it's all there is. And it's a shame we've grown so lazy. It armed a lot of people with the capacity to do things they couldn't before. But now, by not interacting with it, you're at a disadvantage. No matter your field of work...
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u/Square-Smell-7705 7h ago
I have no money or talent, so when i play frp and need a photo for a character ı find a similiar looking drawing then i change it to look how i imagined it with ai. İ only use these drawings in personal games with friends tho
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u/EngineeringAble8471 8h ago
- It is extremely useful for programming and can create software much much faster than one human could. Look at the decomp projects for manny classic games to see how ai has helped there.
- Using ai to reverse engineer software can be good if it’s not inde (look at photoshop)
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u/Lunarmax182c 8h ago
GIMP exists.
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u/435rouhnj234_209u 6h ago
GIMP is shit.
I say that as a long time user and plugin contributor. I'd rather use Powerpoint to edit my images than use GIMP for anything casual.
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u/Lunarmax182c 6h ago
dunno, was always pretty useful for me. Maybe I am too casual with GIMP :(.
I do usually use other image editors like CSP or Krita for drawing, but GIMP for specifically editing.any time I use PS I wanna go back home...
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u/EngineeringAble8471 7h ago
Yes but industry professionals who are used to using software in one specific manner do not want to re learn the ui even if was fetuture complete with photoshop.
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u/thisaray 7h ago
Sorry but gimp suffers from the same thing a bunch of large Foss software suffers
The UI is really bad
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u/AndrewM317 4h ago
There's nothing wrong with generative AI, its just the people using it maliciously and the lack of legislation. At its core it just speeds up busy work. For simple tasks its amazing but anyone who has to do stuff with a lot of depth can immediately tell you AI is still pretty bad. These basic ideas and topics can also be done by any group extremely quickly, the only difference is that generative AI allows a single person to do it. This obviously creates issues because theres no legislation in place to limit it and because it drastically increases the ability of bad actors to ruin it for everyone.
Gen AI has very little downsides and most of the issues people have with it aren't even because its AI, its because of the bad actors who can abuse it
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u/SaIemKing 8h ago
I'm not pro, but I think there are good and bad usecases. Copying and stealing art is bad. Assisting (emphasis) with programming and maybe research (not my forte) is fine.
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u/mclov977 7h ago
ai has more finctions than generate slop, u now
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u/Some-Dog-800 5h ago edited 3h ago
well if you look at the steam stores you’d know why they’re doing this. whenever a good and simple concept emerges there will be hundreds of ai slop copies of it within a week because ai is just that good at reverse engineering. it can practically just take a short video with a few prompts to make a game core that basically function the same.
it’s gonna be a wild west that no one likes thanks to ai.
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u/ZoidsFanatic 8h ago
What I hate is “vibe coding” and how prominent that is becoming. No, little Timmy, you can’t say you’re a game dev because you asked a AI to design the code for the game and then another AI to design all the assets. Now, look, if you want to use AI to assist with coding fine, more power to you. But, AI tends to make mistakes a lot (or all the time depending on the model) so most actual programmers I know will double and then triple check the output to make sure the code isn’t shit or have giant security flaws.
The Skyrim modding scene is overrun with vide coded modes that will break your game or have compatibility issues with other mods because the “programmer” didn’t bother to check if the mod actually worked. It’s fun.
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u/Pineapple_Snail 7h ago
Helldivers 2 has the same issue. A bunch of vibe coders are basically implementing cheats into the game disguised as mods and is being seen as no big deal by most of the community.
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u/VMelain 6h ago
No wonder, helldivers 2 is a paid game with paid currency and a false hope of "you can get everything for freee!!!". Those cheats for SC has existed for YEARS
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u/Pineapple_Snail 6h ago
Ive gotten most the warbonds without paying a dime so that isnt true. But that isnt my point.
There is cheats that change the stats of weapons or add changes like changing strategem cool down. All of these has only appeared recently and will probably ruin modding for everyone because people feel the need to vibe code cheats.
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u/KroniiPekora 5h ago
AI reduced code writing time but increased the time requiered for code review. There was a study that showed the increase in code review time mostly cancels out the gains from code writing. But if these guys can push out that fast then they are probably skipping the review process.
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u/Different_Target_228 4h ago
Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, considering we now have Bloodborne on PC for the first time ever, and it took less than a week, I couldn't give a fuck less about vibe coding for the right purposes.
Epic vibe coding their new launcher and bragging about it being faster than Steam? Bad purpose.
Normal ass people doing what Sony won't do for 11 years, while they sit on an IP that people keep begging for new stuff from? Great purpose.
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u/NewbGingrich1 2h ago
A lot of complaints about AI tend to be outdated. Like when people used to laugh at AI for being unable to do hands as if that was a permanent assessment , while people who actually used AI understood the issue was already solved long before the broader public realized it. Same thing with coding, a lot of people seem stuck in 2022 views of what an AI can do with programming. Properly setup and prompted with follow up reviews, the modern iterations of AI are capable of some crazily powerful development. Like unless you're the most elite silicon Valley tech bro top 0.001% of all programmers ever there is no way you can justify to anyone not using such a powerful tool in your workflow. It'd be like an accountant who insists on ink quills, papyrus, and an abacus as wholly sufficient to do their job.
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u/M4rshmall0wMan 2h ago
This is why I’m conflicted. Some genuinely great stuff is coming out. The pace of development on emulators, compatibility layers, useful software, etc is the fastest it’s ever been. And then we have harmful slop like OP called out.
The gaming community has to somehow come to a soft consensus on where we draw the ethical line with AI use. Seeing how 70% of Reddit comments are usually in consensus already, I’m not too worried about this.
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u/JorgitoEstrella 4h ago
I mean if you developed a game you're a game dev doesn't matter the tools you use.
If you made a house you're a house maker doesn't matter if you're not an engineer or architect and only used mud and clay.
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u/thepixelon23 8h ago
If i the broken pixel on screen ever vibe code using ai yall have the right to rip me apart
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u/VisscaGuu 6h ago edited 6h ago
Mfs defending this need to realize that this is not inspiration, it is infact theft.
As a game developer myself this is extremely concerning, imagine putting 2 years into a personal project just for some kid with an AI subscription to steal the game and release it claiming its theirs, AI could be used as a great assistance tool but every AI company is making it a cheat code for being lazy, shame on those people, please support real programmers, artists, designers, composers and other forms of real human art.
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u/Real_End7170 8h ago edited 8h ago
Honestly is sad as a game developer myself cause I put work and effort into making a game a dream game I wanted to make for such a long time and seeing Ai take over game development kinda saddens me because that* means no effort no actual pursuit or love for the game your making cause heck even if AI becomes so advanced on game coding it can make a game in one second I will still not use ai because I prefer putting effort and having that enjoyment when making a line of code for a game that I am passionate about.
And heck even with AI being able to copy games now I still won't use ai because thats just having no creativity and with no creativity I feel like you can't even call it a game because it truly has no effort nor is it fun because it just copies off of other people's work. What makes it repetitive So I call it slop
Also God I hate my auto correct I had to edit this because of that..
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u/ZigZagreus1313 8h ago
It still takes effort, just less effort on figuring out the code part. But coming up with a meaningful story/theme, characters, art style, music style, etc. still takes effort, and is generally what makes a game good/interesting for others. Maybe AI will get great at that stuff too in a few years, who knows, but until then, it's becoming more of a taste curration exercise and less about knowing how to allocate system memory and deal with error handling. If it's purely about effort equaling quality, we'd all develop in assembly. No one does because the huge amount of additional effort is not noticeable to end users in any meaningful/positive way. That will also be the case for talented developers that use AI as a coding tool.
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u/Real_End7170 7h ago edited 6h ago
Eh ya know what your right on the effort part although what I mean by effort is actually having a story or a actual style in art since as in the post basically ai is completely copying these games and taking all there ideas and story. That's what I mean by effort but I was probably vague with it although ovbiously effort cannot be everything when it comes to making games cause I can take years making a game but if I give it such a simple plot and story line it is overall bad.
And when it comes to the art style or music yes it can also take effort depending on how that so called ai developer does it. But still most AI developers Ive seen just sadly make linear plots or bad ones but eh I do believe some can make good plots
Also what I mean by effort is having the passion or pursuit of something and actually doing it compared to just coding out ai prompts what feels kinda boring my opinion cause there is no satisfaction in what I'm doing at that point it's more like me losing that passion for the satisfaction of making a project
Although I do think ai can be used for small things when it comes to code if you can't figure out something but I would never use it regardless
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u/Allthethrowingknives 6h ago
The code directly affects how the game plays, though. That’s why people seek out games from the same devs, the code is part of the style
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u/Ad841 7h ago
One thing I want to ask tech bros is how does "recreating" someone's (or small team) creative project to make money for themselves is useful to anyone?
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u/Illustrious-Sense194 6h ago
Its useful to themself because it makes them money.
They never wanted to help anyone else they just want to take your money lol
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u/esaul17 4h ago
I mean it makes them money so it’s useful for someone lol.
But I think the argument would be it’s a free market and people are willingly buying their product, so they must perceive it to have some value.
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u/Ad841 4h ago
Sad ain't it? Put a lot of time and effort, then some goober with generative AI of their choice recreates it for cheap and cashes in on it before you can even list it on Steam or Itch. The goober behind it can blow raspberries at you saying, "You snooze, you lose!" At the point, did you even have a fighting chance?
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u/Salty_Map_9085 2h ago
> to make money
Did you know twenty dollars can buy many peanuts
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u/santcho1 8h ago
Inb4 the 17 AI defenders that got butthurt on my last post come here
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u/Alabaster_Potion 7h ago
I saw in other posts where they were like "AI is actually helping devs because they can advertise their games as anti-AI and anti-AI people will swarm it".
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u/JoyFerret 7h ago
Back in 2014/2015 I was first exposed to game development through indie devs on YouTube that would post devlogs. It was eye opening because before then I didn't really have a concept of indie games (before I thought you needed a studio and a big budget), and it was really cool to see people building games in their basement, by themselves, and being along for the ride.
It makes me sad more than anything that AI copying games will discourage indie devs from showcasing their stuff, specially because for many those devlogs and community engagement is a big part of their marketing.
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u/Healthy-Support-7292 8h ago
What blows my mind is that even when devs do decide to shadow drop content like that, grifters work so fast that it's going to be genuinely hard to tell who made what first.
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u/Head_Butterfly_3291 5h ago
Take a look through the Indie Dev subs and they are overrun with folks who love AI. They will tell you that the AI hate is only a small bubble on reddit, it’s a tool for development, and any devs that promote NOT having used AI is just doing so to appease the crowd. They’ll proudly play games that use AI art and such because they only care that the game “looks fun”. They are actively contributing to this problem, but don’t tell them that!
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u/gallyroi 6h ago
The worst part about it is people will still defend this behaviour. If you challenge them on it, the argument usually boils down to three selfish and unempathetic points:
- If I can, so I will.
- Why do you care?
- You can't stop it. Adapt or die.
I dont know when everybody became so unscrupulous and lacking respect for other people, but I blame capitalism.
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u/Big_Boytryanother 4h ago
Capitalism indeed. This world belong to dogs today and they will tear each other apart and us no matter what. There is no reason to spill blood, but those dogs were taught to aim for the neck for too long and were constantly rewarded for it.
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u/TheFarmLord 3h ago
I like that dog analogy a lot. I'm gunna have to use that to explain this shit to people
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u/BudgetDamage6651 3h ago
"Like it or not, it's here to stay" is by far the one that ticks me off the most. Because it's here to stay doesn't mean it has to suck and ruin everything. It's such a thought terminating phrase.
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u/Sweptuu 8h ago
I'm not anti vibe coding but looking how things are going I might get convinced to switch sides about it. I've always hated generative AI but never saw a problem with vibe coding, I think it's going too far at this point.
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u/Oboro-kun 6h ago edited 6h ago
At least on principle we should be so fucking scared about Vibecoding.
Not only its inheir potential and direct damages, such as enabling Cyber Attacks more easily, it has already been used to attack and hack multiple countries structure. this is awful and very risky,
But imagine the logical natural conclusion. What happens when companies do something about this? Because this is a Indie Dev, what happens when this Happens to say an Example the New OoT remake? The day of the trailer people where recreating scenes with Claude. Or whatever next big release? People pissed at Sony (with fair reason) are rushing towards have the Ps5 emulator ready to run it on release day.
The only natural conclusion for Game companies in the short term is "well probably just make them Cloud games" so any data cant be easily extracted.
That is without going into the fact that this only going to make companies push further so people do not have actual devices, and just rent digital PC and Cellphones just as Microsoft has revealed it wants to do. That way they can skip the PC parts issue for most people while building more Data Centres and that way they will ensure you cant have a personal LLM in your digital storage. Being 100% reliant on LLM models they own.
People are saying this is a way "stop" Coding, or Art, or whatever to be gate kept. When in reality things were the most open and free of anything, there were dozens of website, video, tutorials to learn everything you wanted. Insted this is going to ruin most of this hobbies and jobs. The "I did a mod that blends Elden Ring and SM 64" thing are something of the very present.
Once people become dependent on LLMs and even some skill, and even some companies and fields are lost , they will go stop these "cheap" prices and will skyrocket the price of tokens. So asking claude to program you a 40 K dollar game,or even rip someone else games will be multiple times pricer, and now there is not going to be an easy and simple way to learn coding, and be good enough and fast enough with Companies well connected to AI companies that will try to push out multiple releases per year.
You want to learn Digital Ilustration and draw for yourself because now LLM are to pricey as they got their way and everyone depends on them? Well Graphic tablets stopped producing years ago so fuck you. Do you want to do a movie? Good luck finding cheap affordable cameras and fighitng against rich people with LLM models.
We cant and must not become 100% reliant on LLM, but people are just going "but it makes it faster!"
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u/No_Landscape6897 8h ago
vibecoding is generative ai?
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u/Sweptuu 8h ago
Yeah that's why I said, I found it as an exception, didn't really hate it that much. But stealing entire games using vibe coding is not something I want to support.
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u/Vesper_Fex 7h ago
Absolutely despise Ai in game development. It will always be just a little more and more Ai involved. Ai involved in anything creative absolutely looks generic and sucks the soul right out of it.
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u/MeowRawrUwu 6h ago
Hate it in anything artistic. It’s actually depressing how business-focused the world has become. Everyone shoves everyone else under the bus for a few bucks and integrity is out the window, and these people ruin it for the rest of us—the people who actually care about our crafts and have creative passion. I hope we get some serious laws out in place soon, or the creative industry is fucked; it’s already long overdue by now.
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u/penguins-r-cute 5h ago
Roblox devs love being sly selfish “coders” with ai looking for quick money
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u/Affectionate_Fact854 4h ago
Happened to 3 games I posted to browser for testing, in a question of hours someone already started cloning the 1 game and making updates every 15 minutes
The other game within hours someone made a spin of replica to actually post it for publishing testing with nodejs version
Thus killing and outshining my puzzle game with a identical replica And the second game also almost lost it's path
The 3rd game luckily I spent 2 years making, so to clone it would be a bit more challenging so haven't seen that happen yet
Even posting videos on reddit opens the flood gates to people with 200$ subs to clone and out develop your project if shared early to mid development
So I stopped showing concepts or uploading something early
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u/Jack_Cat_101 6h ago
I was also originally planning to make a demo for my game before I planned to release it, and I decided not to because of AI bros possibly copying it
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u/TextualArchitect 6h ago
It's genuinely disheartening that (primarily) indie developers might no longer be able to gauge the appeal for their games anymore because someone might just steal it for themselves.
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u/Purpulear 5h ago
The worst part about ai isn't even that it's incredibly harmful to basically everyone. It's that it feels like the digital equivalent of a dog shit sitting on the floor.
Even if it 'works' the whimsy of "wow someone made this" is just entirely gone. You don't realize just how much you appreciate effort until everything is effortless. Seeing all the mod pages be filled with AI generated slop is really disheartening. It really does just feel like someone pissed all over your living room.
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u/Longshot02496 4h ago
I think Steam should just ban AI-made games. That would probably help this immensely, if AI plagiarists had nowhere to peddle their forgery
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u/dragonlayer42069 2h ago
it's looking like AI is backfiring for the big people too, which means that eventually we might see regulations come out from lobbying, it'll at least hold AI back a little bit but it'll depend what the regulations end up being.
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u/ContactMushroom 7h ago
The only consolation is they have no talent and their lives suck so bad they have to stoop to stealing to ever come close to mattering in life.
Side note: I wish so much that Roblox would shut down and clones be banned. It's a genuine cancer on gaming even before genAI
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u/amNSMB 6h ago
Hopefully this kind of fear will also get to AAA developers and then they can stop releasing such unfinished crap from the get-go
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u/TextualArchitect 6h ago
Unfortunately I fear that this won't affect AAA developers in the slightest, as they have the funds and ability to completely shut these exact kinds of situations down entirely. I still like to believe that it can though.
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u/Kernovia 7h ago
Yeah at this point we need laws about not being able to profit over mostly AI gen content. The not being able to copyright thing is good but not enough.
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u/Shadebinder02 6h ago
Ai content is copyrightable, provided a human was involved in the creation process. A human needs to make the prompt
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u/Lebog_bruhh spread your love 8h ago
ai bros will be like: "ai doesn't steal!! they shared it publicly so it was their fault!! ai just improved it!!"
this is so dumb
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u/MeowRawrUwu 6h ago
“It’s transformative because it steals from multiple people, it’s not an exact copy!!!!!”
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u/DragointotheGame 7h ago
This sucks dude, I've been working with my buddy on a game for about a year now and we're afraid to even tease it because of AI issues
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u/Forever_Inspired 6h ago
Great, now copycat can put out their shitty knockoff with AI faster just from a demo.
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u/DatsLotus 1h ago
Artists are still producing drawings, music, writing, and animations even though AI has been able to train on their media for years and sort-of replicate it.
It's a sad thing if game devs stop making games now because of their product finally being in the firing line. I sympathise with the impulse to not release an unfinished product, but the fact is a lot of indie projects today need to be released before it is finished as early access because many developers can't afford to finish a game without some income.
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u/theclag 50m ago
Releasing in early access is different then releasing public playtests or demos. Im sure early access is still gonna happen. Its the small demos and couple day public Playlist that are going away.
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u/ScooterAnomaly 8h ago
I'm generally pro AI but surely straight up using it to copy something should land you in judicial trouble, if it doesn't already. Why would copying a game be any different than using the likeness of an actor, copyrighted character or brand?
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u/MowieWauii 8h ago
I didn't copy anything. My happy little robot friend copied it. And I have let them know that's bad so they'll never do it again! Until they do.
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u/ScooterAnomaly 7h ago edited 7h ago
You have to pretty deliberate to have AI copy an entire game for you. I'm pretty sure whoever does this already can be legally culpable for doing so. I don't think the courts are gonna take "I didn't do it, instead I used a tool to do it" as an excuse
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u/DaMoonhorse96 6h ago
AI hacked another company, some Australian government website and the company responsible (OpenAI) just got more funding.
The US government genuinely believed this excuse.
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u/GoldenGuyPie 6h ago
I don't get it.
Isn't this already a concern even before AI existed? Friendslop games, for example.
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u/VisscaGuu 5h ago
The issue lies at the fact some random folk vibecoded and released a game from its trailers, the tldr that is.
There'll always be clones, but this is straight up theft.3
u/GoldenGuyPie 5h ago
A lot of clones are just straight up thefts too. You can check that on steam itself.
we had hundreds of minecraft 'clones' (they're nearly 1 to 1), so the issue just might be how fast they're doing it now, not the fact that this thing is new.
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u/VisscaGuu 5h ago
I have seen, theres this game called super sus, idk if its ai or not, but it is literally just 3d among us, theyre not any better but ai-copied games are worse because its harder to stop them, from what ive seen at least ofc.
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u/Electronic-Touch-554 5h ago
The issue is that ai is letting people copy the games so fast now that they beat the original game to market if it has a demo
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u/M4rshmall0wMan 2h ago
The problem is that these clones are being made in literally 24 hours. For a game that’s probably taken years to finish.
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u/ferocity_mule366 5h ago
way easier to make copies with AI as long as they spend a lots of money, it can even be automated now
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u/GoldenGuyPie 5h ago
So the issue is the speed of replication instead of the replication itself?
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u/ferocity_mule366 5h ago
well yeah, especially for video games with simple gameplay loop, for example vampire survivor, and the AI can do reverse engineering on the demo to mine for assets and copy it into their own projects
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u/GoldenGuyPie 5h ago
So yeah, I just don't get the "AI is defining the future of game development" when this thing had always existed. One of the largest mobile games is a blatant rip-off of league of legends that was created to exert control over the phone market, before RIOT themselves could release League mobile, and was proven to straight up steal concepts and artworks from others.
I just don't see AI defining the future of game dev this way.
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u/manny_the_mage 5h ago
The issue is the ease in tandem with the direct theft via AI
sure there are hundreds of Minecraft clones, but those clones were not made by literally ripping the coding from the game
and when a single person can just use the original games code to vibe code a copy cat with AI in fraction of the time and money it took the devs to create the game, that is a major problem and disincentivizes indie devs
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u/JorgitoEstrella 4h ago
They dont even need that, a simple video of the gameplay and a prompt is enough to copy the core game.
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u/ArgyDargy 6h ago
Notice how these people are using AI to steal other games rather than actually make their own? That's all AI-bros and the AI itself know how to do. AI needs to constantly steal from humans in order to actually be useful. AI training in both text-based formats and image-generation formats need human art and writing to scan to be useful, which they steal from pretty much anywhere- this message I'm writing right now will probably be used for AI training. All without my permission or consent.
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u/lily_ender_lilies 5h ago
Fuck ai.
edit: i am also an aspiring game developer who wants to release indie games but unfortunately i also probably will follow suit due to ai, thats the plan anyway
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u/Appropriate-Card5215 7h ago
they should be able to easily get those stop games taken down, it's stupid that any platform allows them to exist
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u/metastuu 5h ago
I don't know how hiding the development will help. Isn't it just pushing the problem down the further down the road? Once it becomes a common expectation that people can duplicate a game with ai, why would people en mass buy games rather than find a free duplicate or copy it themselves?
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u/FormalCryptographer 5h ago
Conversely, a log of these games being cloned are incredibly simple games, and not even something I'd ever consider wasting money on
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u/Nuaxsy 5h ago
Thanks, as if I wasn't depressed enough, jeez. The second I reinstall social media, my suicidal ideation comes right back
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u/AttentionNice7165 5h ago
I am lowk excited for when someone actually competent makes ai gen a core part of the game. Maybe a really simplified / hyper-compacted model?
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u/Altruistic_Mud_261 5h ago
Somewhere out there, Paul Spooner and the other Anti IP Communists are celebrating.
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u/Moonshoes47 4h ago
same, as well as video game modding, software development of all fields and even replacing the 3d modelling and 2d artists of the industry.
we need to make it when a political party loses power that AI projects can't be sold for money on a federal level. just aim for the heart right there. kill the tech entirely.
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u/Reviiyu 4h ago
Even with all of the people excited to get on up on big corps by using gen ai to remake software or the people excited with the modding scene stitching games together people don't seem to realize that this tech can and will be used against them in the future and hurt indie companies in the time in-between. Even disregarding that the environmental issues are suddenly gone just because this tech can now be used to harm big tech companies your still being wasteful to the environment even if all your doing is "making" a mincraft meets kingdom hearts mod. All this really did is find a new way to be harmful and disruptive to a different group then before.
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u/No_Appointment_5326 3h ago
What a weird reason. This game is basically Buckshot Roulette but with more mechanics.
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u/Wicked_Raptor17 3h ago
and so. the death knell tolls its first
hope everyone has enjoyed gaming so far lmao. its about to get a whole lot worse
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u/YeeterYoter43 3h ago
Nowadays in game development is either drop the playtest and have an 80% chance to suffer from someone copying it into another peohect in less than an hour, or drop the game without telling anybody and have an 80% chance of nobody ever discovering it.
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u/itsmetimohthy 3h ago
Too many corporations are embracing it so I’m genuinely terrified that AI is here to stay. At least until it kills off the rest of us.
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u/Artemis_Platinum 6h ago
Low consumer trust caused by low quality games is what caused the video game crash in the 80s.