r/relationship_advice • u/Beginning_Coffee_303 • 19h ago
My husband 37M has basically erased me 39F from our marriage, but he also won’t separate. I don’t know what to do.
I’m not posting because I need people to tell me to divorce him. I already know this is not a healthy marriage. I’m asking because I genuinely cannot just pack four kids up and leave. We have just refinanced our mortgage, our finances and property are heavily intertwined, and I could not afford suitable rent for me and four children anyway.
I need practical advice about what you do when your husband has effectively stopped participating in the marriage, refuses to repair it, but also doesn’t want to separate.
We have been together nearly 13 years and this didn’t start 10 months ago. The last 10 months have just become unbearable.
My husband has slept on the couch for about four years. We haven’t had a normal intimate relationship for years. We haven’t kissed properly in years. We haven’t had sex in around two years. There are no dates, no affection, no thoughtful gestures, no birthdays, anniversaries or moments where I feel like somebody actually thought about me.
I can’t even remember the last time he did something simply because he wanted to make me happy.
For years I have been the person who plans everything, remembers everything, organises everything and keeps our family running. Kids, school, appointments, bills, groceries, birthdays, Christmas, animals, routines, paperwork, finances, household stuff, all of it. Including 90% of what most people would classify as the “masculine” duties.
Even conversation became one-sided. I can listen to him, support him, help him work through things and talk about his problems, but I genuinely cannot talk about myself. If the subject is me, exciting news, my life in general, how I feel, what I need or something he has done that hurt me, he becomes defensive, shuts down, leaves, ignores me or somehow makes the conversation about him.
I have gone through illnesses, medical procedures, traumatic things, struggles and really frightening periods of my own health and still basically had to keep going. I have needed a husband so many times and there just hasn’t been one there for me.
For the last 10 months it has become much worse.
There has been some form of silent treatment, complete withdrawal or aggression towards me almost continuously.
And when I say silent treatment, I don’t mean we have an argument and don’t speak for an evening.
I mean he can live in the same house as me and act as though I don’t exist. Walk past me. Refuse to answer simple questions. Sit in the same room and deliberately not acknowledge me. Respond to everybody else while refusing to communicate with me.
Sometimes this goes on for days or weeks. Sometimes it changes into hostility or an argument and then goes straight back to ignoring me. There’s been no reprieve.
He also withholds information I actually need to run our lives.
Information about the kids. Plans. Things he has agreed to that impact me. Things that have changed. Decisions he has made.
He will make decisions involving the children without discussing them with me, completely ignore routines or rules I have spent weeks putting in place, go against things we have already agreed on and leave me dealing with the consequences.
Then he goes away for work and I am the one putting everything back together.
I work full time too.
When he is away I am working and doing the entire job of raising four kids, the house, animals, school, appointments, meals, admin and everything else.
You would think his time home would be when I finally get another parent.
Instead I am generally more exhausted when he is home.
He still expects me to carry everything, except now I am also dealing with somebody interfering with what I’m trying to do, undermining me, refusing to communicate with me and creating an atmosphere where everybody is on edge.
I can’t win.
If I wait for him to make a decision or do something, nothing happens. I’ve let things go for literal years for him to step up before.
If I do it because somebody has to, he gets angry that I “do everything”.
I have responsibility for absolutely everything while increasingly feeling like I’m not allowed any authority over my own life.
There have been lies too. Financial secrecy. Gambling money that was meant for household expenses. Secretly starting smoking again. Things hidden from me until I find out. There’s been much more serious things in the past.
There have been hundreds of promises.
He will apologise. He will say he understands. He will promise not to disappear again, not to ignore me, to communicate, to step up with the children, to get help, to follow through.
There have been psychologists, suggestions of courses, resources, plans, systems, promises to book appointments and promises to work on himself.
Then nothing actually changes.
I have spent years trying to help him change.
I have explained myself calmly. I’ve written things down. I’ve cried. I’ve yelled. I’ve given him space. I’ve stopped giving him space. I’ve made schedules and household systems. I’ve made responsibilities incredibly clear. I’ve tried not mentioning problems. I’ve tried addressing them immediately. I’ve tried letting things go. I’ve tried focusing on myself and the kids but end up facing some sort of sabotage.
I have spent an absurd amount of time trying to work out the magical correct way to communicate with someone who simply does not want to communicate with me.
And there has been zero repair of our marriage.
That is probably the thing I have only recently understood.
He talks about needing to improve himself. He talks about helping more. Being a better dad. Doing jobs around the house. Getting organised. Not gambling. Communicating.
But those things are basic adult responsibilities.
There has been nothing that repairs what has happened to me or to our relationship.
No rebuilding intimacy. No tenderness. No effort to make me feel loved. No attempt to rebuild trust. No taking me somewhere because he wants time with me. No acknowledgment followed by meaningful amends. No period where he has actually treated me differently long enough for me to believe anything has changed.
Even when I tell him I’m absolutely broken, it becomes another conversation about him.
I cry almost every day now. I barely sleep. I’m struggling badly at work. I’ve lost weight. My hair is falling out. I pick my skin from anxiety. Sometimes my brain just seems to stop and I cannot think properly.
And he watches me deteriorate and still treats me like I’m an inconvenience.
What finally broke something in me was realising I don’t think I’m asking for the marriage anymore.
I tried talking to him about functioning as separated parents under the same roof because financially and practically we are stuck here for now.
I wanted to talk about the kids, who is responsible for what when he is home, household responsibilities, communication, finances, personal time and how we could stop living in constant conflict.
Instead, one of his biggest concerns was whether I could eventually see somebody else.
He said that would be a “dealbreaker”.
He also said something along the lines of not wanting to go through all of this if he wasn’t going to “get anything out of it in the end”.
That really messed with my head.
Because I have spent years asking him to actually be my husband. I am so lonely…
He has effectively removed himself from the marriage in every way that matters to me, but the idea that I might one day stop belonging to him seems to matter.
So I don’t understand what he actually wants.
He doesn’t want to participate in the marriage.
He doesn’t repair anything.
He doesn’t want to separate.
He doesn’t want a practical separated-under-one-roof arrangement if that means I am actually separate from him.
He says I’m not his mother, but then constantly information farms from me and relies on me even when I try and push his responsibilities and independence back onto him.
And meanwhile I am still expected to raise the children, manage the household, carry the finances/admin, absorb the consequences of his decisions and somehow remain his wife. I am also severely struggling with the kids, because as hard as I try to show them responsibility, hard work, integrity and earning things, they’re starting to show the same passive aggression, entitlement and just walking away from me as he does.
I have become incredibly isolated because of all of this. I have barely spoken to people I love because I’m exhausted, miserable and shut down all the time. I have hidden how bad things are because I know once I tell people close to me, I can’t untell them, and I’m worried that outside involvement would make living here even harder.
I’m not looking for another communication technique. I have communicated.
I’m not asking how to make him understand. I have explained this more times than I could count. I’ve woken up to his pattern of pulling me into a cycle of saying the same things over and over again by acting confused or getting angry, just so he doesn’t have to take accountability or actually respond to me.
And “just leave” genuinely isn’t something I can physically or financially do tomorrow. I’ve explored it….
So I’m asking people who have actually lived through this:
How do you stop participating in a marriage by yourself when the other person refuses to either participate or let it properly end?
How do you establish your own life, boundaries and parenting arrangements while still under the same roof?
How do you stop carrying somebody who will not carry you, without the kids and household falling apart because you’re the only person keeping everything functioning?
And how do you know what is reasonable to expect from somebody who says depression is behind some of this, when they are still capable of functioning in other areas of their life but seem to have completely withdrawn from you?
I genuinely don’t know what my next move is. I just know I cannot keep living exactly like this. I’ve completely lost the kind, confident, spontaneous, loving and FEMININE woman I used to be.
TL;DR: Married nearly 13 years, four kids. My husband has emotionally checked out of the marriage for years and for the last 10 months has mostly ignored me, withheld information, undermined me, broken promises and left me carrying almost all parenting, household and mental load. I’ve tried everything to repair it and there has been zero sustained change. He says depression is part of it, but he still functions in other areas and the withdrawal is overwhelmingly directed at me. I can’t realistically leave right now, but when I tried to discuss separating under the same roof, he resisted that too, in case I might eventually move on. I need practical advice on how to stop functioning as his wife while still living together and keeping four kids and a household going.
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u/violue 17h ago
I have hidden how bad things are because I know once I tell people close to me, I can’t untell them, and I’m worried that outside involvement would make living here even harder.
Are you sure that's the reason? Are you sure it's not because you're still hoping things will work out, and you don't want the people in your life knowing about all this just in case??
Things will not get better if you don't let other people in, let them help you. And if you won't do it for yourself, do it for your kids. Growing up in a house like this is going to literally ruin their lives. I'm not being hyperbolic. This is doing permanent mental/emotional damage to them, even if it doesn't seem like it right now.
Tell people in your life what you're going through. Maybe someone can help you physically, or financially, or emotionally. Do that, do it for your kids.
And please remember, you don't need his permission to decide your relationship is over. You don't actually need a divorce before you can move out.
This guy genuinely hates you, and he's infecting your kids a little more every day.
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u/hamsterity 15h ago
This is an important part I missed. My sister is with a guy that’s like your husband, OP, and none of us knew until 6 months ago. I liked the guy, they live in a different state so I don’t see them day to day but we get together for holidays and they made things seem good during visits.
She finally opened up to us about it and she’s taking the steps to get divorced and I am SO proud of her. I will support her to the ends of the earth knowing what she’s been through these past 10+ years, carrying it all on her own. I only wish I could’ve been there for her sooner.
And talk about no options, she’s a SAHM that didn’t even have her own bank accounts until 6 months ago. No income or assets in her name. She got a divorce lawyer, laid out everything that’s going on, and it’s looking very likely that as the primary caretaker of the kids she’s going to be all set. She’s working on finishing her education and getting a job, but the courts are going to make sure her & the kids are taken care of in the meantime.
Just whatever you’re afraid of from telling people, know that they might surprise you. My sister was afraid to tell us and didn’t want us to hate him or anything. I’m not gonna do anything against her wishes because I love her and my relationship with her is important to me and I’ve missed being so close with her these past years. I think we’re closer than ever now.
Sorry, too much about me probably lol, but open yourself up to the possibility that you could actually feel amazing, empowered, and supported for the first time in a long time if you reconnect with people.
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u/on-purpose810 14h ago
My sister was also a SAHM with a mortgage who relied on her (ex) husband when she decided to end her unhealthy marriage. It was really hard at first but 3.5 years later she has a stable job she enjoys, is renting a house, is engaged to a man who treats her much better, and her ex-husband is a much more involved father now that he has to step up and parent alone on weekends and holidays.
OP, please take the steps people are suggesting to you here. It will be hard but it'll eventually be worth it for both you and your kids.
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u/twotenbot 18h ago
You are teaching your children that this is what a normal, healthy marriage looks like. They don't know any better, and are likely to repeat your mistakes unless you teach them otherwise.
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u/purplepeopleater205 17h ago
It also seems that she is teaching them that they can also treat her poorly and there will be no consequences for it.
I was in a similar situation and realised that even if I couldn't leave for myself, I had to leave for my child, even if that meant they had no relationship with their father as that was not my responsibility to maintain.
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u/sillychihuahua26 15h ago edited 8h ago
I’m a trauma therapist, and this is exactly what concerns me most about OP’s situation. Lundy Bancroft discusses in Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men how abusive fathers can effectively turn their children into proxy abusers of their mothers.
By repeatedly modeling contempt, undermining the mother’s authority, and demonstrating that her needs and boundaries don’t matter, they teach their children to treat her the same way. Children may begin aligning themselves with the abusive parent, adopting his attitudes, and participating in the mistreatment themselves.
And from what OP describes, this is already happening in her home.The long-term implications are enormous. These children are learning deeply dysfunctional relationship patterns that they may carry into adulthood. Equally concerning is the potential damage to OP’s relationship with them. As they grow older, they may increasingly adopt their father’s contempt, disregard her authority, and eventually become estranged from her.
I understand that leaving with four children is enormously complicated, but OP needs to recognize that staying carries serious consequences too. If she wants to preserve healthy relationships with her children into adulthood, she needs to start developing a realistic, safe plan to leave. Separation won’t automatically reverse these dynamics, but it can give her an opportunity to establish a home where abuse and disrespect are no longer normalized.
And I want to be clear that the children aren’t responsible for the environment they’re being raised in. They’re learning what their father is teaching them.
I’d strongly encourage OP to read Bancroft’s book,
particularly his discussion of abusive men as parents. What she’s describing is deeply concerning, and the longer these dynamics continue, the harder they may be to undo.EDIT: I understand that you’re asking for practical advice, and that leaving with four children, a mortgage, and intertwined finances isn’t something you can accomplish overnight. My first recommendation would be to consult a family law attorney, preferably one experienced in high-conflict divorces and financial abuse. You need to understand your legal rights regarding the marital home, custody, child support, spousal support, and division of assets. You may have considerably more options than you realize, including potentially remaining in the family home with your children. Don’t assume you’re the one who has to leave. Before moving money, changing financial arrangements, or making decisions about the house, get legal advice. Start quietly gathering copies of financial records, mortgage documents, tax returns, bank statements, and other important paperwork, and keep them somewhere secure.
I’d also strongly encourage you to contact a domestic violence organization and work with an advocate to develop an individualized safety plan. You do not have to be experiencing physical violence to access these services. Emotional abuse, coercive control, and financial abuse are absolutely legitimate reasons to seek support. An advocate can help you assess the risks of separation, identify resources, develop a realistic timeline, and plan how to protect yourself and your children throughout the process. Given his controlling behavior, I would not announce your intentions or attempt to negotiate your exit with him. Use a device and accounts he cannot access. Start reconnecting with trusted people who can provide support. You don’t have to figure everything out today, and you don’t need his permission to end this marriage. You need information, professional support, and a plan that prioritizes your safety and your children’s well-being.
Edit2- also look into trauma therapy, something like EMDR could be very helpful as you navigate this
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u/wellbloom 14h ago
OP’s story was a lot like my marriage. Divorced 12yrs ago and he has fully alienated my two daughters (they’re “terrified” of me). Abusive fathers absolutely turn their children into proxy abusers of their mother. That level of Psychological Warfare is soul crushing.
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u/Islandisher 10h ago
YES - my ex messed with the kids heads and hearts badly - fortunately they still love me but the younger one had a terrible time and stayed away from me during crucial teen years when he was deep into the manipulation.
OP can you change the locks? I left without my kids and in retrospect I should have hunkered down and kept the family home as he used that against me later. XO
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u/kanthem 14h ago
You would benefit from this free copy of Lundy Bancrofts “Why does he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men”
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
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u/IsopodSmooth7990 10h ago
Was going to ask her if she would look in to a C-PTSD trained therapist. It would be of great help.
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u/losttexanian 15h ago
I was the kid raised in a situation like this. It took me years to unfuck my own relationship with my mother because I just learned very young to say extremely hurtful things to her.
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u/Charming_Garbage_161 13h ago
I’m going to hop in here bc I divorced a man like this. She can leave. I had my ex sign a quit claim deed to the house without a refinance after I bought it out for a fourth of what the equity was. I rented my kids rooms out during divorce and lied about the income and only accepted cash to pay the mortgage. If the child support isn’t enough to make up for the husband being gone then there are options. I pulled my kids into my room and we shared a bed for almost three years. It was better than being homeless which is what my ex threatened to do to take them from me.
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u/Suitable-Net2779 13h ago
The part that worries me most is what the kids are learning from all of this. They’re watching one parent carry everything while the other ignores, undermines, and refuses to communicate with her. Even if they don’t understand it fully now, they’re learning what a relationship is supposed to look like. Staying together isn’t automatically better for children if the home environment is constantly hurting everyone. She may not be able to leave immediately, but she can start planning for a healthier future instead of waiting for him to change.
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u/Practical-Pickle-529 11h ago
Yep. My parents marriage was like this except both treated me as the inconvenience. Or at least that’s what it looked like.
My mom used to come in my room in high school crying about divorcing our narcissistic father because he’d been ignoring us for days at a time again. Guess who’s 40, and still dealing with them and haven’t had a healthy successful relationship in two decades?
My brothers wife could’ve written this exact post too. The men in my family are extremely unstable emotionally and avoiders of problems big and small.
I’d rather stay single until I die than be in a marriage like this.
Kick him out op. What do you mean you and the kids have nowhere to go? Remove him from the situation and file for divorce and child support asap.
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u/Pouryou 15h ago
This post reminded me a lot of my parents’ marriage. My first thought was, those poor kids. In our case, all of us have been in therapy, struggled to have healthy romantic relationships, and 5/6 of us went no contact with one or both parents.
I have very little sympathy for OP or her husband.
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u/Jerseygirl2468 11h ago
This is all I could think about reading this. Those kids are seeing all of this and absorbing it into themselves, and frankly, it's going to mess them up in relationships in their own futures.
Divorce is the only option here.
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u/akwred 12h ago
He doesn’t want to divorce because all his financial shenanigans will come to light. All the more reason to start the process yesterday.
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u/arianrhodd 10h ago
⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️
And because he will financially owe a ton of child support at a minimum.
And speaking of kids, OP, here’s the biggest reason to divorce … You are hurting them by staying in this marriage. Think of the truly terrible example you are setting regarding what marriage is. You five need family and individual therapy ASAP.
Please respect yourself, take care of them, and be the role model of strength and self-worth they need. 💖
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u/Ok-Lunch3448 6h ago
If you seeing someone is a deal breaker go out with someone. Start squirrelling away some money. Your own bank account. Join a dating ap. Casually go out alot. Hopefully he’ll leave.
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u/CuriousPenguinSocks 11h ago
Yep, OP needs to get ahead of this now. It will be worse the longer she waits.
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u/United-Objective-204 18h ago edited 18h ago
I’m going to tell you my story briefly.
My father was a man exactly like your husband; so much so, it made my blood run cold reading your post. He blamed it on depression. It wasn’t depression; he was an awful man who made my mother’s life a misery. She refused to leave him and they’re still married well into retirement.
I’ve seen my father once in sixteen years - not at my choosing - and my mother twice. The last time was almost a decade ago. They have no role in my life, no place, nothing, and the same for my siblings. They missed the weddings of all of their children.
If this is what you want for your later life, then stay with your husband. Because that’s the way it’s going to go.
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u/MangoQuiet 16h ago
Proud of you for making the tough choice to cut ties. Some people will guilt trip you into loving your abusers just because they're your parents! You don't owe them anything, they owed YOU
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u/United-Objective-204 5h ago
Wasn’t really a choice to be honest. I just got to the stage where it was literally impossible to tolerate it.
But I’m proud of me too 😊 Thank you!
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u/Beginning_Coffee_303 17h ago
I really appreciate you sharing your story, I know I need to hear this. It is something I think about all the time, I don’t want to lose my children and I know I am contributing in what is being modelled to them. If I could leave now and have somewhere I could go I would, but it is genuinely not possible immediately.
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u/JSam46 16h ago
You asked for advice on divorcing your husband overtly. You don’t need to leave the house to divorce, division of assets can take place even if still living together as you’ve ultimately been separated now for 2 years that he’s been sleeping on sofa, not intimate, he’s been not participating in care of children nor maintenance of household. Stop doing his cooking and laundry.
You are best off speaking to a solicitor for advice to get your ducks in a row, then you can issue divorce proceedings likely on grounds of irreparable breakdown of relationship. You don’t need his permission to do so.
If you can’t agree on house sale and division of assets including his and your pensions, given you are the main carer to your children, and need either enough for a big enough property to house you all or to stay in marital home, then court will review that for you.
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u/MizPeachyKeen 14h ago
Solid advice, and I would add, OP needs to separate her finances from his immediately.
Based on his past gambling and financial secrecy.
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u/supersmallfeet 11h ago
This is the most important thing! Don't leave the house! I hate seeing advice on how to leave - no, HE needs to leave. That big house is for OP and her kids, not for a this man who's been living as though he's single.
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u/GrouchyYoung 14h ago
Your refusal to tell anyone in your life about this is contributing to the fact that you have no resources and nowhere to go. You have no help because by your own design nobody knows you need help. Remedy that.
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u/bbktbunny 13h ago
I’m begging you to talk to an attorney just to see what they say. You probably won’t have to leave the house and will qualify for child support and maybe spousal support. Please, please talk to an attorney. You can get a free consultation from most.
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u/SunShineShady 15h ago
You need to wake up from the spell you’re under that made you believe that this was the way to live. Why did you have four children with this emotionally abusive monster? Why haven’t you contacted a divorce lawyer? And why would you be the one having to pay rent when you already own a house? He can move his ass to an SRO crap rental while you stay in the house with the kids.
WOMEN NEED TO STOP AGREEING TO DESTROY THEIR LIVES TO “ keep a man”.
Your husband is useless. He serves no purpose. There are good men in this world, but your husband IS NOT one of them. DUMP HIM.
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u/CinnamonGirl43 12h ago
My husband was a lot like yours, and I left for this reason. I kept thinking to myself, if I stay, will my daughter marry a man like this? Every time I thought about that, it compelled me towards making a difficult decision.
I had a wonderful father who died when I was 24. I have super complicated feelings about him now in later adulthood because of him keeping me in the same house as my mother. I don’t talk to her anymore. And while I’m sure I’d still have a relationship with him if he were here, we would’ve had it out.
I wish you well ❤️
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u/sb0212 10h ago
My cousin was in a similar situation. As another commenter said you want a divorce now? In 2 years or 15 years. He's not going to change. She divorced after 20 and I swear she's so much happier. Her kids are happier as well. Get your ducks in a row and file. Go to therapy. Get help. Tell your support system.
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u/Purpledoors3 18h ago
I had a husband who did this, also for years. When confronted he admitted he was trying to make everything miserable so I would leave. He wanted to be the "good guy". I also financially was in a bad spot as I was depending on him.
What I did in the meantime was just ignore him completely, accepted that he was not participating, and tried to live my life seperately. Made new friends, etc. this just made him more mad and escalated his behavior.
I didn't feel relieved until finally things ended and he left. Financially it was rough for a bit, but it got better, and I got a new partner. Plan to leave... He will likely tell you he hates you, and everything is your fault.
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u/labtech89 17h ago
I left my husband and he was the “good guy”. I did not give a fuck he could Santa Claus for all I cared. Let him be the “good guy”. I think it is weird that people put up with crap because they don’t want to be the “bad guy”. Be the “bad guy” in the marriage but the “good guy “ to you.
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u/eclipsadesoare 14h ago
That’s not the actual reason they put up with it. It’s a defensive mechanism on both sides. They really don’t want to leave but also don’t not want to fix anything because his pride and ego are too big and it would mean he was wrong. They think that if they behave better they are accepting they are stupid, can’t communicate, lazy, you are better than them. This is too much to ask from some of these men because of how they think and function. The women don’t leave because there is always the hope it will be fixed, they don’t understand what the hell is going on , the man and others convince her through comments, actions that it’s her fault, that maybe she can’t communicate, maybe she’s asking too much, people are different. In the end when it’s too much, people leave even if they have to beg for shelter. The OP is not at that point because they can just ignore each other. Maybe they should divorce and live as room mates if that’s what she wants help with. She can start the divorce proceedings and either the husband is okay with the arrangement, he leaves or it gives him a wake up call and he finally tries to fix the marriage.
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u/ABCBDMomma 18h ago
There are two things that come to mind.
Go see your doctor. Explain your situation and that you’re feeling anxiety and likely depression. Ask about getting on medication and get a referral for therapy.
Make an appointment with a couple of divorce attorneys to discuss your options. You should be able to find ones that offer a free consultation appointment. When you can’t see the forrest for the trees, you need to talk with a forrest ranger (aka divorce attorney) to find the path out.
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u/Flimsy_Eggplant5429 19h ago
Jesus. What would it take for you to be able to leave? Save up money? Leave without the kids first for a little bit? Do you have relatives you can call? Abuse hotline?
That sounds horrible in so so many ways. You have 1 life and you're spending it with someone who seems absolutely determined to make you miserable. Get the fuck out ASAP, I understand you can't just suddenly do it but surely there is a way to make a plan for it.
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u/Consistent_Boat489 13h ago
Talk to a lawyer - they are the only ones that can give you advice you can USE.
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u/Consistent_Boat489 13h ago
Because it also sounds like abandonment. You have options, you need to talk to someone who can legally help you navigate. But wouldn’t suggest you leave the home until you speak to an attorney.
Also, seek mental health help; psychiatry likely because of how much this man has psychologically abused you but if you have to start with therapy, so be it.
And f- your roommate. He can kick rocks for what he is doing and the impact it has not only on you but on your children. He doesn’t care but in 10 years, this may start showing up in your kids behaviors.
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u/CuriousDori 11h ago edited 1h ago
Staying in this awful situation is not healthy for your children and you. Staying is showing your children an extremely unhealthy relationship and will lead to them having abusive relationships. He doesn’t want to communicate so stop trying, ignore him and begin taking all of your proactive actions. Start now to take back your power.
Remember, you want/need your babies to know Mommy is a survivor and protective of her children. Stop 🛑 feeling ashamed of being a victim of marital abuse. Please understand that you must tell family/friends in order to get the help you need. Buy you a new cell phone that you pay for out of your paycheck. Reach out to your family and friends. Let them know you’re in an abusive marriage and didn’t realize he’d isolated you from them. Tell them you need help to get out.
First step is to document all of your current finances. Put your paycheck/direct deposit in a separate bank account in your name only. Make copies of any investment accounts and tax returns. If he is physically abusive (I didn’t read the entire thread) start going to the doctor and take photos. Tell a trustworthy relative or friend how he’s abusive in physical, mental, emotional and fiscal ways. This person will become a witness. If he is abusive then go to the police and get a restraining order. He will have to move out. Next, make an appointment with a divorce attorney ASAP.
All the new evidence you are going to start gathering put in a safe place he would never think to look, ok. Consider taking birth certificates, passports and pictures and storing in a bank deposit box. Start looking for a good, reliable babysitter for when you become a single parent. Bring a single parent will be significantly more healthy than remaining with this guy.
Remember step out to save your kids. If/when hubby notices you’re behaving differently then use a trick of his - gaslighting. Deny being different. You’re just tired 🥱 so not begging him to acknowledge you.
Trust and believe life can improve as you work to make a happy, healthy life for your children and you. Please update us.
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u/miss_j_bean 10h ago
This comment is fantastic and I want to add a little thing, start documenting everything. Get a little notebook and attach a little pencil to it, keep it somewhere handy, after an awful interaction go write down a quick summary plus the day and time. You can also email it to yourself as you can use those timestamps. You're creating a record of his abuse that will help you later.
If your state is a one party state, you can get a voice activated recorder and keep it on when he's around. They aren't very expensive and they're really easy to use. The one I have breaks everything into 2 hour chunks or if there are long periods of silence, it will start a new file when it hears sound and then close the file when it's been quiet again. You can also keep one in your pocket that you turn on quickly when you think shits about to go south.
The important thing is that you have documented his behavior which will help greatly when you are able to get a divorce.Next time you have the opportunity, ask him if he wants his children thinking this is an OK way to treat people, that this is how daddies treat mommies.
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u/Real_Astronaut7451 9h ago
It really does have to be about saving the kids at this point. They’re soaking up so much negative energy that will only show up in their own relationships later
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u/rainbowshummingbird 19h ago
Since you’re already doing all of the work yourself, your life would be easier without him. Start making plans, try to save money, schedule a consultation with a divorce attorney who can advise you on the next steps. Any assets will be sold in the divorce and perhaps you can move forward with some money. It won’t be easy but in the end it still preferable to wasting years of your life in this situation. I have no practical advice on how to remain married to him while living in the same house because that’s not possible.
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u/ghosts-on-the-ohio 15h ago
I understand and believe you when you say that you can't just immediately leave. I know it isn't as simple as just walking out the door with all your possessions tied on a bandana on a stick.
Here is what I would recommend you do in the mean time.
1) If you are not working full time, you need to get a full time job as soon as you can. Even if you pay 80% of your salary toward daycare cost, guess what, that 20% you get to keep? That money is completely yours! Money that he cannot touch and you can do whatever you want with. Money that you didn't have before. HELL even if you only get to keep 10%, that's better than no job at all.
2) If you don't already have a separate bank account, get a separate bank account.
3) stop doing anything for him. Homeboy cooks his own meals and does his own laundry from now on. Only care for yourself and your kids.
4) Stop expecting husband treatment. The moment you stop expecting things from him, you will be a lot happier because you will not be disappointed or frustrated. In your mind he is no longer your husband. He is an extremely annoying roommate.
5) If you have any fear at all that he might retaliate, that he will sabotage your attempts to get a job or a bank account.... if you have any feeling in your gut that doing the steps above might be unsafe for you, call a domestic violence hotline before you proceed. The DV hotline doesn't mean you are sending your husband to jail, it doesn't mean you need to leave for a shelter today. The DV hotline is there to offer advice on how you can stay safe and help you to make plans.
6) Nurture your platonic friendships and your family relationships. Make an effort to make platonic friends if you don't have any, even if it's just online. You need to get your emotional intimacy needs from someone other than him.
7) Talk to a divorce attorney. Talking to a lawyer does not mean you are committed to getting a divorce. You literally can just talk to one to ask what the process looks like and what your options are. You may have more options than you think. There may be a solution where you get to stay in the house with the kids while he moves out. You may be entitled to child support that makes the financial realities of divorce much more handleable. Get information. You don't need to commit. You can just do research.
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u/ghosts-on-the-ohio 15h ago
i hope this doesn't need to be said, but if you are having sex with him at all, even because you are afraid of what he will do if you say no, then get some type of semi-permanent birth control that he cannot tamper with, such as an iud or an arm implant. the last thing you need is another pregnancy!
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u/Shot_Ad6332 6h ago
One day you will snap and you will refuse to do it all. You are sick because it's destroying your health. You are responsible for everything. You would be happier as a single parent.
This marriage is over. If you can't move out then treat him like a room mate. Co parent and do an in home separation while you try and figure out how to move out. There's no pressure. Just gather information and look after yourself. You don't even have to say anything to him about how the relationship is over or the in home separation at this point. But knowing you are doing it will help you. You will start to feel a bit better.
Avoid him if possible but don't make a big deal about it. Act as if you are a single mum but be aware he will sabotage you.
After making the decision to break up with him in your head over time you will get stronger. Start imaging the life you would want if he wasn't in it. Dream.
Good luck soldier. I've been through something like this. You are strong. You have just been treated badly for a long time.
I find hiking with my dog really helps. Think about a hobby you would enjoy too
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u/Top-Trade-3633 4h ago
Absolutely spot on advice, it’s all about you and the kids now OP so stop trying to fix something that definitely can’t be fixed, made even more impossible when he doesn’t want to fix anything anyway.
Focus on you and the kids and use it to plan your exit strategy when you’ve got all your eggs in one basket, everything planned and it also gives you time to start putting away small amounts of money each week to save for when you have enough to get you out of there to support you for several months.
If you’re in the UK then he has to legally leave the property which you both own and you can stay there at least until the youngest child’s 18th birthday.
Also don’t forget to factor into your plans to force him to sell any equity left in the property and force him to sell it, check the laws in your own country if you’re not UK based. You’ve got this far so you can easily spend a good few more months to plan your exit strategy
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u/SalisburyWitch 3h ago
She’s already a single parent, for all intents and purposes.
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u/WildlifePolicyChick 17h ago
I am sorry you are going through this and you are so drained.
You need legal advice, first and foremost. It takes one person to divorce - you don't need his permission or even agreement.
Get your financials in order. You say you work - put away your own money in an account NOT at the bank you share. How much money do you/he/both of you have? Know exactly what your finances are when you meet with a divorce lawyer.
Stop supporting him. Just stop. Altogether. Stop talking, trying, supporting, listening, waiting on him, all of it. He is a roommate you have to tolerate, not a husband. Treat him that way.
How old are your kids? Time to start them on chores - they live there too, they are part of the household, and they need to learn these things. Laundry, cleaning bathrooms, vacuuming, pet care, packing lunches. Whatever they can do at their level(s).
Drop the 'stuff' you truly don't need to do. Pare down your load. Do you vacuum once a week? Make it once a month. No one is going to die from dust bunny accumulation. Forget all the management of his shit. Make your kids step up. Call in the calvary and ASK FOR HELP FROM FRIENDS AND FAMILY. Do not let your pride stop you. I’m worried that outside involvement would make living here even harder. How could it possibly get worse? You can't do this in isolation.
Find a therapist.
Make a plan. You say you are stuck here 'for now'. Figure out when 'for now' can change, what it will take, and start your exit plan. Lawyer, therapist, friends, family.
You can do this!
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u/Spygirl_112358 10h ago edited 10h ago
Thing you need, which I don’t see you gotten, is a LAWYER.
EDIT: There’s a lot of great suggestions and personal stories on here OP. Please read through them.
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u/Net_Negative 19h ago
Divorce, don't live with him, split custody of the kids. Anything else will make you ill.
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u/3-kids-no-money 14h ago
So what’s keeping you from actually filing for divorce? No one has to move out because you filed. Sounds like nothing would actually change in the relationship if you filed and continue living in the same house. You sound like you are using the debt, house, kids as an excuse. When in fact the purpose of the divorce process is to work all that out.
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u/Mariner-and-Marinate 6h ago
Are you still enabling him?
Are you still preparing his meals? STOP.
Are you still doing his laundry? STOP.
How old are the kids? If they need something, refer them to their father and see how he treats them.
Does he sleep on a couch in the living room? Move it to the basement so that he can truly be in isolation. Replace it with chairs in the living room so he cannot sleep there.
If he wants to disappear, make him do that.
Quit begging for attention. You’re only enabling him.
Go see a lawyer for advice on what to do going forward.
Do you own the house or rent?
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u/atticusfinch1973 13h ago
I would say if he's that checked out, then any effort you give him goes away too. You're teaching him this behavior is okay. So simply stop functioning as his wife, and work on being mother to the kids and running the household around you and them.
That means he can cook his own meals, clean his own stuff, you organize the kids as if he doesn't exist. Groceries are bought for you and the children, not him. Same with any household staples. Money should be diverted into accounts that are yours if you have an income.
He wants a slave. And you're happily giving him one.
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u/Character_Language95 12h ago
This is good advice but saying “happily giving him one” is unfair. She’s miserable but this form of abuse creates a very real mental cage for people in her situation.
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u/Drea_44 18h ago
You need to consult a solicitor and a financial adviser, also help for abused women and children. You can not be telling yourself there is no way out, there is always a way out, it may be harder and take longer. The longer you are living inside this BS you and your children are more likely to become mentally unstable. Do not think for 1 minute that your children do not see what's happening, they do, and it may affect them in ways you are not ready for. This man is awful you and your kids shouldn't be around him.
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u/lawschoollorax 17h ago
I’m a family lawyer, not your lawyer, but when I meet people with your facts I usually tell them - prepare. You know you need to divorce. This is not healthy for you or your children. You need to start a slush fund and begin gathering evidence if you can plead fault grounds where you live. You need to start taking cash out when checking out at the store, either open a new account at a totally different bank or store it in a fire proof safe at a friend or family members home. You need to prepare.
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u/ennuithereyet 17h ago
You need to consult a divorce lawyer and get started on divorcing him. Especially because of the financial secrecy and gambling issues. Your financial issues will only get worse long-term by staying with him.
And your workload will only get lighter by leaving him. Right now you are working, taking care of the house, taking care of the kids, plus taking care of him and bending over backwards to beg for his attention. Of course he doesnt want to separate, knowing that! If you separate, he will have to take care of his own home, make his own meals, pay his own bills, do his own laundry, remember his own appointments, parent his own kids (or pay child support). Why the hell would he give that up? To make you happy? He doesnt care if youre miserable - in fact, it seems like he wants that, because then you just try harder. So of course he won't just agree to change the system that he greatly benefits from. But you also dont need his permission to leave him. Consult the divorce lawyer to see about your finances and if you can live separately and if you can separate your finances at all. But otherwise, stop doing stuff for him and stop caring about him as much as you can. Don't do his laundry, dont cook his meals, dont get him Christmas gifts, dont make his appointments. If he makes plans and doesnt tell you about them, then too bad - he needs to do anything that is needed for those plans. Document as much as possible, in written communication with him and/or by keeping a diary (with notes about how he is treating you, what he does to undermine you, when he lies to you, how your health is being impacted, how your kids are being impacted, etc). It could be helpful in the divorce that you need to get. Because he is not going to change, you know that by now. Either you leave him or you live with the way things are and the way your kids are being affected. Those are the two options. You can't get someone to change who would gain nothing from the change and who just doesnt give a shit about you being happy.
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u/meteorastorm 17h ago
My immediate thought was why do you and the kids have to leave??
Separate your finances, you work full-time, find a Solicitor and get the man out.
Your kids are learning that this is marriage and how you should be treated. When in fact it’s the opposite. It’s not good for them at all.
He needs to go, he’s made these decisions, he’s the one that has decided to be behave in such an awful way and you need to keep the house while the kids are all under 18.
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u/bilizu 15h ago
You care far too much about him compared to your kids. Not once have you thought about how this effects them and what long lasting consequences it will have in their life and love life. He has shown you he doesnt care, why are you still trying to force it? Ignore him just as he does you, when you stop caring is when you’ll live a much better life. Also you have let it go on for far too long, should have nipped it in the bud years ago. If a man doesnt change within a year, he wont ever. You have accepted his behaviour for this long with no consequences why would he change?
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u/_Sovaz99_ 17h ago
Stop all communication. Stop all wife duties. Stop showing up for him when he is not there for you. Playing softball has not gotten you anywhere. its time for hardball now.
STOP CARRYING HIM. Depression is an excuse. If he wants to be a ghost in the house, start treating him like one. Ok let him be a ghost. And dont see anyone else right now - you have enough problems - but some unexplained absences from the house would not come amiss. Ignore demands for explaination from this ghost. If he relies on you let him fail. Repeatedly.
You can fight back, or this can be your life forever with no fulfillment anywhere. I think you wont rock the boat because hes got you cowed into acceptance.
Please prove me wrong.
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u/ScheduleSea867 4h ago
I only have one question. Do you want your kids to think this is normal marriage? Because they will. The longer you stay the more therapy and messed up your kids will be. Time to take control of your future and your kids future.
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u/ale473 18h ago
You are modelling this relationship to your children, they are picking up on all of this and learning this as normal. Would you want your son treating his future spouse this way or your daughter to allow herself to be treated this way? You need to seperate, the kids need at least one emotionaly healthy and stable parent or they well suffer into adulthood.
Your husband doesnt want you but he doesn't want anyone else to have you.
Reach out to trusted friends/ family or a therpaist work through why you want to spend the next 10/20years in this toxic dynamic. Then work on an exit plan. There are some good books out there such as - Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men https://amzn.eu/d/0iNMxu5V
There are also good self help books such as - The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can’t Stop Talking About https://amzn.eu/d/0bRMWKDA
Work on yourself and stop giving him your energy, life can be so much happier and calm. I know I left a 16 year relationship with 3 children.
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u/Beginning_Coffee_303 17h ago
I know I am, and I know no amount of trying to “act normal” or positive will undo them seeing what I’m accepting, in fact it probably reinforces it. I do feel like I’m being weak, I never used to be someone like that. I don’t have much support where I am but I have already been looking at therapy. Thank you for your book suggestions, I will definitely take a look at these
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u/uPcountrY64 17h ago
lock your door. create your own sanctuary with your master bedroom room.
stop doing his laundry or preparing his food. you are no longer his wife.
just focus on yourself and the kids.
use whiteboard to communicate the bare minimum such as taking kid’s to the doctors or some sport activity, etc.
grey rock him.
create your own financial independence. have your own savings and bank accounts.
do consult a lawyer. you may have viable options that you haven’t considered yet and may wish to implement.
best to you and the kids.
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u/FindingHerStrength 16h ago
This is such valid advice. This is exactly what you need to do. Follow this to the T!
And get your ducks in a row.
Please leave this abhorrent man.25
u/Realistic_Ordinary84 17h ago
This goes back to my point that he is abusing you. You are trying to be an honorable wife. He is using that against you. For your life, you need to leave.
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u/PersephoneTheOG 17h ago
Have you considered therapy for yourself? Not for the "marriage" because honestly there is nothing that can help. You need to find yourself again and let go of your idea of what was.
He is not your husband anymore, so stop treating him like one. Don't listen to his excuses or his problems, ignore his existence until you can formulate an exit plan.
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u/ZeeLadyMusketeer 13h ago
Talk to a lawyer.
Right now, everything is one big unknown and every single worst case scenario is dancing past your eyes every single time you consider it.
Change is scary because your brain will always tell you change will make it worse and you know that what you have now is as bad as you can cope with it being, you can't take any more, how will you cope if it will get worse?!
Your brain is lying. It is incredibly statistically unlikely that it won't get worse, and if it does, it won't be for long.
Take the sense of mystery away. Talk to a professional. Ideally, talk to at least 3 to give yourself a fair view of the landscape, but stop letting the fear of the unknown scare you into paralysis. Even if you have to lie to yourself. Tell yourself you're just researching, just gathering information, you don't have to do anything with it, you can stay in this hellscape marriage as long as you like.
Be your own parent. Baby step yourself through it. Reward yourself with whatever you need to do. But the next time he's at work, or you're sat in the car waiting for one of your kids, open a private browser, search "Divorce attorney in my area", call the first three that come up, and set up appointments. Go. Talk.
The worst thing that can happen is everything stays exactly as it is.
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u/EllyStar 14h ago
Have you tried looking at this from the perspective of someone married to an addict? Your husband‘s gambling problem almost certainly goes far deeper than you even suspect.
He is an addict. They are notoriously, difficult, often impossible, to be in a relationship with. You will always be the third wheel to their addiction. Nothing you say or do matters. Only the addiction gets a voice.
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u/The_Boots_of_Truth 14h ago
It took me 6 months of planning to leave my 20 year marriage. I got all financial paperwork, documents for the kids, and slowly moved important things to my parents 'spring cleaning'. I worked outside the house, so organised daycare and a home help. He thought he had 'won' since I stopped asking him to parent our children, do cleaning or sort out bills but really I was just erasing him from our lives. Then when we did leave, nothing changed much at all for the kids and I.
Start making your plans, quietly and slowly. Then when you are ready, file for divorce. I'm not sure on your location, but usually one party can apply to end the marriage.
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u/heart_RN115 12h ago
Please tell someone. Tell your family and dearest friends. You NEED support! They love you and will be more than happy to help you and your babies. You are choosing to suffer in silence when you have a support system. Please, please reach out to family and friends so they can provide you the love, support and strength you will need to make it through this.
He doesn’t care about you or your children. He doesn’t love you. He doesn’t like you. Hell, he doesn’t even like himself. What he does care about is your money. He cares about controlling you. He cares about using you. He cares about making sure you are convenient to him. He doesn’t want you BUT he said himself, he doesn’t want anyone else to have you either. You are his possession. His ragdoll. His maid. His mother. His bank. His chef. His laundromat. His errand runner. His dog he can come home and kick when he has a bad day bc he knows you will continue to lie at his feet waiting for him to give you the love and attention that you so desperately want.
I don’t say these things to be harsh. I say them because they are TRUE and so you can SEE who you are to him.
My daughter went through the same situation only he was physically abusive (to her and the children) and a drunk. She pulled away from everyone in hopes she could save her marriage; in doing so, suffered alone for far too long. Once she finally opened up we jumped at the opportunity to help. This was ~ 5 yrs ago. It’s has affected our grandchildren greatly. Especially the eldest as they were old enough to remember the abuse; however, they would be beyond repair had she not spoken up and asked for help.
1st Step: FIND YOUR SELF RESPECT.
2nd Step: TELL SOMEONE.
3rd Step: Move in the shadows. Get all important documents OUT OF THAT HOUSE. Birth certificates, SS cards, financial documents. I would also remove anything of value (i.e. jewelry, money, etc..) Start putting money back. Put money on a card each time you go to the grocery store and lock them in your desk at work or give to trusted family/friends for safe keeping. Save every dime that you can.
Step 4: SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL
Don’t tell your couch bum anything. Move in silence until you are ready to drop the bomb, metaphorically speaking.
Sending you a big, warm, loving MOM hug. Please take care of yourself. You can do this. I know you can do this. You have proved that by coming here and asking for help. I have faith in you. Please have faith in yourself <3
Updateme!
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u/BitsyProspect 11h ago
All of this advice, personal stories and support is amazing! Something important to remember is DON’T BELIEVE HIM if he tells you things like: “You will never get the home” or “I will never divorce you” or “You can’t afford to leave” or “you will never…. Whatever”. He’s wrong. See a lawyer. YOU CAN BELIEVE YOUR LAWYER.
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u/publicprivacyp 19h ago
This is too long. I read where you don’t think you can divorce bc of the financial and kid related things, that’s what attorneys are for. Have you consulted an attorney?
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u/WaltzFirm6336 18h ago
Same. It’s amazing how many people think they have zero choices without doing anything to actually find out what their choices are.
OP go get some proper advice from a divorce lawyer. If it’s a hellish house and relationship for you to live in, what do you think it’s like for your kids? Pull your finger out and do something about it.
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u/CanDoCalamity 16h ago
She’s being manipulated and controlled by her husband with his emotional and financial abuse. A relationship like this can really warp your sense of reality and options. This type of relationship is set up by the abuser exactly to wear away their other persons sense of being able to “do something.”
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u/MOGicantbewitty 6h ago
Hon, you file for divorce. You don't have to leave the house to file. Go find a divorce attorney NOW. Stop letting him convince you that you have to deal with this. The courts might make him move out, you might have to sell the place and buy elsewhere, he is going to have to pay child support so you won't be relying on only your income.
Just file for divorce. So what if he doesn't want to separate? It's not up to him! You are not a slave. He doesn't own you. He can't force you to stay married. No matter which house you are living in.
This is emotional abuse. You've spent the entire post on all the details because he has you twisted up in them. NONE OF IT MATTERS. All that matters is you are miserable, he's emotionally abusive, and you can just file for a divorce no matter what he wants. Why are you still prioritizing him? Take care of you and the kids. It's easier when he's gone anyway
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u/KaleidoscopeOk767 16h ago
Whatever you do, prioritise yours and you childrens safety and don't have a "he would never do that" attitude about any level of physical retaliation, even if he has never done anything physical before. "Dealbreaker" gives alarm bells to me as what is the deal? -he isn't currently giving you anything so what is it he is suggesting that is less or worse than the current "deal." Be safe. Any advice is well meaning but not from professionals or people that have the full picture.
My opinion is that you should rebuild your support system. Perhaps just take the first step of telling one safe person. You're right that you can never untell them but trust them to love you enough to support you no matter what, and have at least one person that you can be honest with. Even if sometimes the honest thing is just turning up and saying everything is terrible, I don't want to talk about it right now but can I spend some time with you without having to mask how I am really feeling.
Finally a bit of food for thought is if it was worse than this, if it was cruelty to your children or something like that, would you find a way to leave? I bet you would. You're clearly a great mum that cares about her kids, and if they were suffering or in danger you would get them out of there no matter what the financial implications were. Your wellbeing is just as important. One day your kids who you care about so much will be adults that you can't protect in the same way- do exactly what you would want them to do if they ended up in your position. You are not doing them a disservice if they end up in a smaller house with less money. They will be far better off getting to have a relationship with their mum, and not a defeated shell of her.
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u/Character_Language95 12h ago
Hi OP! I’ve been in a situation similar to this and my best friend is finally breaking free from this situation right now. First of all, I think it’s important for you to recognize the damage that has been done to your self-esteem. When you live with someone for years who treats you like a servant and makes you feel worthless, it genuinely does condition your mind to believe that your core worth is about serving others, keeping the peace, and removing opportunities for them to get upset which have downstream harmful effects on you and the kids. A partner who treats you with contempt and/or disrespect will make you feel like no one cares about you and that maybe you genuinely deserve it. This is the person who is supposed to know, love, and protect you—and if they hate you, why wouldn’t everyone else, right?
I’m here to tell you that isn’t true. It’s not true at all. A lot of people love you very much. Your kids love you very much. Your friends love you very much. I don’t know your family situation but usually people tolerate marriages reflective of the dysfunctions in their immediate families—even if your relationship with your family is strained, I promise they don’t want you suffering like this.
I promise there are people who have noticed that something is wrong but don’t know how to approach it. There are people who see what’s going on and wish they could help you in some way. Someday soon, when you’re out of this situation and you can see it more clearly, you’ll see how many doors were really open to you that your abuser has convinced you are closed.
My advice to you is to open up to people you trust. It may not be clear how that person can help you, but you’ll be surprised by the unexpected places help can be found. Someone might have been through it and know something you need to know. Someone might have a friend who practices family law. Now is the time to trust that the help you need will find you as long as you start looking for it. You’ve posted here, and that’s a start.
A lot of advice here is about keeping the marital home. Something I’ve learned from experience is that spaces can hold dynamics in place. Think about how you form habits when you live in a particular place for a while, and then form new habits when you go visit somewhere else. Places beget ingrained dynamics, including how you physically conduct yourself as well as how you feel. Ask yourself if you really want to live in this house anymore. Here’s my point with this:
- He’s already shown that he has no intention of budging. IMO, he is not going to be an easy person to persuade to move out. The mentality of entitlement will make forcing him out of the house almost certainly result in spiteful, retaliatory behaviour. This is not what you want.
- Ask yourself if you can really be happy in the environment that is steeped with years of painful memories.
- Ask yourself if you think your kids can change the dynamics THEY have adopted in this house—the habits we build in a location extend to the way we treat others in it.
Having gone through it myself, the initial difficulty of finding a new place to live and establish a completely new life are drastically worth it in the long term. It is absolutely amazing what a new physical location can help you achieve. It is a reset button in ways you would truly not expect. If you can find a way to leave the house and find a rental while you work through lawyers to deal with the sale of your home, it is worth it. Finding a rental to remove yourself and the kids from this place is much easier and faster than booting out an unwilling narcissist and/or drumming up a new down payment. I did this and it was the best thing I have ever done for myself.
Last piece of advice, and I need you to trust me on this, the things that feel impossible right now are actually easier than you think. I won’t pretend there won’t be challenges or that the road ahead is without grief or struggles, but the hardest steps to take are the first ones. Breaking out of an unhealthy dynamic and taking that first real step that shows your abuser that you are ending the marriage is extremely difficult. You know him best, so this is where you need to plan around his expected reactions. If you think he’ll fight you or get physical, plan to leave while he’s travelling. If you think he’ll be shocked but passive, adjust your plans accordingly. But once you take that first big step, you will be amazed…by your own strength. If you focus on detaching from the emotional ties and zeroing in on doing the next right thing for you and your kids, you will find a version of you that you never imagined possible—faster than you’ll ever believe.
I believe in you. You can do this. Update us from the other side.
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u/Recycledineffigy 9h ago
I wish for you is authenticity. Do not couch your words or your needs in language that protects the listener. Be direct every time. "I just asked you a question. Ignoring me and refusing to answer is childish and manipulative and teaches the kids bad communication habits. It's not OK." or even, "when you refuse to speak to me, it's abuse. Controlling behavior is not OK."
It probably won't make him change but you will not be responsible for playing into his control tactics. "I will not accept your controlling behavior." "this is not normal adult behavior." Literally I would wish you the strength and presence and energy to name what you see every time.
"I see someone trying to control me by playing silence games."
"I see someone who is mad and taking it out on me."
"I see controlling behavior."
"I see someone who isn't willing to change to make daily life better."
"I see a man who refuses to speak to his wife."
"I see a person who wants me to feel bad."
"I see someone who is too scared to speak to his wife. "
"I see behavior that's manipulative."
"I see someone ignoring their marriage relationship."
"I see behavior that is passive aggressive."
"I see someone who refuses to help."
By just stating out loud what you see and notice will model for your children the pushback on the bad behavior. You will feel more like yourself and it's actively doing communication by just stating what you see factually.
" I see someone who doesn't want to share vital information even though I need to know." "I see someone modeling 'silent treatment' communication, which is controlling behavior."
It important to keep only to what you see factually. Don't ascribe reasoning behind it. You don't really know why and it doesn't matter. The behavior needs to change.
" I see behavior that needs to change. "
I really hope you can practice "I see" statements. You get to say something true, no one can argue with facts effectively.
"I see tonight a choice to be silent was made."
"I see someone who chose to stay stagnant." "I see someone who can try different kinds of communication."
"I see someone who can learn to be kinder to those he lives with."
"I see someone who chooses to stress the household with silent treatment."
"I see someone who can reach out for change."
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u/Next-Drummer-9280 11h ago
Your husband is trash.
Talk to an attorney and have them help you make a plan to leave this piece of human garbage.
You’re teaching your children to accept being treated terribly because that’s all you know how to demonstrate because you stay with this asshole.
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u/GaiasDotter 6h ago
There is no correct way to communicate or behave because the issue is that he has decided not to participate in any way in any thing. He isn’t not communicating because you did something wrong. He is doing it on purpose for some reason so nothing you do will ever help. I get that you can’t just leave right now. But start preparing ASAP because something is really wrong and with the financial issues there is a genuine risk that the longer you wait the worse it will become.
Step one get cameras immediately, you need to document this behaviour so that you have proof when you need it. And then show it to your friends/ family. If they see it for themselves it saves you a lot of trouble explaining shit. Step two, and this one is hard, golden rule baby. He acts like you aren’t there you do the same. Do nothing for him do not think of him as a part of your life don’t plan around him, if he changes thing or promises things that he refuse to communicate just refuse to acknowledge those changes or promises. Don’t run yourself ragged trying to figure out what he is doing or trying to clean up his messes. Like if he promises that y’all will be there for a potluck party and bring x. Just don’t. Don’t shop for ingredients to make x don’t spend time making x to bring to the party don’t get the kids ready and bring them there and if anyone else says something just look really surprised and tell them you never heard about the potluck/ you were never invited so you assumed that you weren’t wanted there. If they mention him again look surprised and state that you never heard anything. Do not spend time energy and effort you don’t have to try to cover for and hide his abusive behaviour because this is abusive.
Also be aware that this could be the result of a genuine issue rather than a choice. He could have something physical wrong with his brain, he could be having some sort of severe mental health crisis that shows like this, he could be on drugs or he could just be a dick. It doesn’t really matter why because it doesn’t change what he is doing or how it affects you and your family, your children ffs! This is a deeply problematic borderline traumatic situation for them to live in. Either way you can’t magically fix him if he refuses to even acknowledge your presence around him.
This is deeply fucked up and I have no idea what’s going on but you have to tell people and get help ASAP. Do you have a good relationship with his family because if you do you should disclose what’s going on to them. If there is something psychological or physical wrong then at least you have done what you can. Also better to let the truth start slipping in case you do want to leave and not have false stories made about you and your behaviour/sanity.
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u/freudian-slurp 3h ago
He has no incentive to change because you doing everything benefits him. You are also accepting the financial deception and his gambling addiction. Do you think his secret keeping extends to infidelity as well, because it's kinda got that feel to it...
You have been over-functioning for years; as someone who did the same I can tell you it's going to be difficult to stop. The first step is figuring out what you can let go of. This might mean deciding to live below your own housekeeping standards, etc for the time being. If nobody does it then nobody does it. Simplify things. Nobody wants to take care of the pets? Rehome them. Nobody else wants to help with holidays? Stop buying stuff for extended family/travelling to extended family, etc. Accept the hit to your reputation as the person who does it all.
Let the grass grow long. When the HOA sends a notice leave it for your husband. Wash your own laundry and leave anybody else's dirty clothing who is old enough to operate the machines on the floor. Tell him you are going out with friends on Saturday, leave him with the kids and do not make yourself available to answer questions. Your kids are obviously watching this relationship dynamic and learning so though you say you are too entangled to leave I think you need to at least start setting yourself up for that. Any money you make that isn't directly related to bills can go into a separate account. You can pay to at least talk to a lawyer and see what things could look like. Getting out will no doubt be a pain in the ass but maybe less of a pain in the ass than you think.
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u/ComprehensiveTill411 13h ago
have you done any or looked at behavioral or psychological research in the US around gender, gender roles, and/or affective science?!
It has been shown soooo many times how men are centered as the epitome of human and woman are others and therefore less human than men. Boys and girls are socialized with this under patriarchal systems, like in the US.
Women are exploited for every form of labor they can do while men are usually only socially expected to be around (not actually present) and being a paycheck. But they don’t have to take any responsibility in the running or maintenance of the household they LIVE IN TOO.
It’s why women have far more chronic stress that causes negative health effects down to the cellular level.
It’s why every product starts out based on things based around the average man. Like the size of your smart phone is based on the size of the average man’s hand. Same with seatbelts. There weren’t real female crash test dummies until just recently. Where they actually accounted for the different distribution of soft tissue and bone density and center of gravity.
Which means all car crash safety features are modeled around and tested on the average man’s body. That’s why women are far more likely (and in greater numbers) to be more severely injured in comparable car accidents than men. Including a higher crash mortality rate.
Medical research has been done on only men until recently. And medications were only tested on men. Even the pre human trials on rodents are done on all male rodents unless the medication has something to do with the female reproductive system.
Men are centered as the default and women are expected to cater to them. Now that women have clawed their way to some equal rights so they no longer need a man to survive in the world (in the US women could not get a loan, credit card/line of credit, or have a bank account without a male relative’s permission, access, and signature until legislations against that discrimination- the Equal Credit Act, in 1974 and enacted in 1975. That means women have only had a decent start at financial independence in the US for 50 years, ignoring the wage gap and continued professional sexist discrimination that occurs.) the majority of men are refusing to evolve as human beings with us and are instead trying to make us property again.
The point is men do not tend to consider anything a woman says seriously or really absorb it. So often a woman says something, a man ignores them or dismisses or insults them. Then a man will say the EXACT same thing and suddenly it’s brilliant and worth listening to.
It’s not about hating men, it’s about it expecting them to become fully realized human beings who are capable of growth and evolving with us instead of have mantrums when all that’s been asked of them is true partnership and equity instead of being worshipped and served.
They’ve never been socialized to ask women, to listen to them, to see them as equally and wholly human. Some good ones have evolved and listened and are awesome allies, but most refuse to and so many turn and find solace in misogyny in stead of taking true stock of the social systems, having true intersection and questioning their thoughts and attitudes and beliefs and how they formed and if they still serve them in healthy ways and taking accountability and deconstructing the harmful socialization patriarchy has pushed onto them. Patriarchy hurts everyone in varying ways.
Let’s switch.
Don’t forget though, majority of homes are dual income households, meaning most are NOT SAHM’s they’re working mom’s. So if you wanna switch, remember:
- You have to get up and prep breakfast and prep lunch boxes. While also running to brush your own teeth, getting your clothes on, getting your makeup and hair ready, but since you’re a man — you get to skip that last step. Make sure to pull out whatever meat is frozen, put it into the fridge. That’s part of dinner prep. Make sure pets have either been walked or let outside (depending on where you live), as this may be the last time in the morning they’ll be able to potty before you leave for the day.
- Then you get to wake up the kids, make sure they eat breakfast in a timely manner, then rush them off to brush their teeth, getting their school clothes on, and rushing them out the door. May want to make sure there is at least 10 minutes set aside just in case they still need some minor homework help.
- Get the kids to school or daycare, then rush off to your job. Don’t forget, while doing this, you’re calling to make any appointments you need to make for the kids (docs, dentist, etc.) or making your own appointments and your spouses appointments on that ride into work (docs, dentist, pet/vets, cars, etc.)
- Arrive to work, prep for meetings, doing any and all tasks you have to knock out for the day - which can depend upon what job you have.
- During lunch, check your phone’s text or voicemail, in case you need to go get a sick kid. If not, making sure to get appointments set up (if any are needed and you were unable to do so before work). Finish prepping the ideas for dinner, based on what you already know you have. Also check your calendar to see if any holiday’s or birthday’s are coming. Begin prepping lists for those tasks too. Those lists should consist of party materials, what to shop for, gift ideas, etc. And it’s also wise to use this time for creating a grocery shopping list and planning out when to complete that task too.
- End of work day, race out of work, go pick up kids. Engage with children on the ride home to ensure they’re okay and see how their day went. If your kids are in sports, or other activities, take them to practices while bringing the other children/youngest home and getting ready to help them with homework.
- Checking and reviewing mail, any important docs arrive that need attention? Plan to set aside time for that. Letting any pets outside (as soon as you arrive) that may have been couped up all day long and need to go potty. If you’re in an apartment, this looks like setting your stuff down, getting your dog on their leash, and taking a 5-10 minute walk around the block to let them do their business. Finish meal prep (meat should be de-thawed), get your veggies cut up and prepped. Set up things on counter for side dishes and get your pots and pans out and ready.
- Begin cooking or possibly run to get kids who may be done with practices/activities at school (if the other parent isn’t picking them up once they’re out of work), cleaning up any dishes as you go that you can get to now, picking up after little ones who are running around and playing with their toys and leaving mini disasters everywhere, helping older ones with homework.
- Finish cooking. Get the table cleared off, and if you’re lucky older kids can help you prep the tables. If not, you’re prepping the tables. This is usually around the time another parent comes home. Eat as a family, catch up with everyone.
- If there’s time for kids to finish homework and little ones to play, clean the dishes and kitchen. Sweep and mop if you need to. Gather a load of laundry and throw that into the washer.
- Time to get littles bathed and brush their teeth/prepped for bed. Tell older kids to take their showers, and do their nighttime routines/prep for bed. Get all kids into bed. Maybe read a story to the littles. Switch clothes over the the dryer.
- Try to see if you can fit in a workout, or if you’re going to school, try to fit in an hour or two to do school work to finish your degree.
- Pets need to go out again for a final time. So either let them out or start wrangling them for their final nightly walk.
- Now your partner, who’s barely helped with any of this, suddenly wants your “attention.” So you gotta deal with that.
- Climb into bed, utterly exhausted, turn on your alarm which will be in about 6 hours if you’re lucky, possibly 8 if you’re extremely lucky and skipped a few steps here, and get ready to do it again the next day.
Notice how you don’t or rarely see the other partner helping with any of these tasks? That’s because men usually leave all of this invisible labor on their wives. And you know it. It’s why men like you like to diminish it, until you’re forced to do it all (usually because she leaves you) and then you see how much work really goes into making home life run smoothly behind the scenes. Hence why y’all run to marry the next woman as fast as you can, in order to avoid having it on your plate for years on end.
So yeah, James… we can absolutely trade places. Let’s start tomorrow. I know a long list of women who would be happy to just wake up, worry about themselves, get to work, work at their jobs, and come home to a nice hot meal, relax in the lazy boy, and then expect to be “serviced” by their partner at the end of the night.
🤡
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u/Extra-Trouble5332 13h ago
Here's some resources
Is your relationship healthy? https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-relationship-healthy/
Dr. Ruth | That Was Abuse-YouTube Channel https://youtube.com/@healingbythenumbers?si=Mf4CsF-iEt0d49SO
How He Gets Into Her Head by Don Hennessy https://a.co/d/001oPvO7
Should I Stay or Should I Go: Surviving A Relationship with a Narcissist by Dr. Ramani Durvasula https://a.co/d/01PIM8wd
Operation Safe Escape provides free assistance to people impacted by domestic violence, stalking, harassment, and related crimes. https://safeescape.org/
Weaponizing Incompetence https://zawn.substack.com/p/why-household-labor-inequity-is-abuse
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288
Tolerable levels of permanent unhappiness https://potentash.com/2023/08/17/tolerable-level-permanent-unhappiness-relationships/
Financial Abuse https://nnedv.org/content/about-financial-abuse/
Subtler Forms of Emotional Abuse https://themendproject.com/
Is It Supposed to Be This Hard? Telling the Difference Between Emotional Abuse and the Hard Work of Relationship by Mary Pat Haffey https://a.co/d/040Z4IgQ
Coercive Control Consulting, Training & Expert Witness https://endcoercivecontrolusa.com/
9 traits that every narcissistic women have in common. https://youtube.com/shorts/f8NliYsRbhc?si=fv3434mD3wMT3XjG
The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence by Gavin de Becker https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H3KS-vMjG8WJnEOfJuNpNxfuZLdgA2wE/view?usp=drivesdk (PDF) https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56465.The_Gift_of_Fear
Retroactive Jealousy https://health.clevelandclinic.org/retroactive-jealousy
Men Abused by Women in Intimate Relationships https://www.humanservices.alberta.ca/documents/PFVB1100-men-abused-by-women-booklet.pdf
When Women Use Force https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/women-as-the-abusers
Dangerous Personalities: An FBI Profiler Shows You How to Identify and Protect Yourself from Harmful People by Joe Navarro and Toni Sciarra Poynter https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/20696047-dangerous-personalities
OUT OF THE FOG | PERSONALITY DI. https://outofthefog.website/
Combatting Cult Mind Control by Dr. Steven Hassan https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/173711.Combatting_Cult_Mind_Control
The signs and causes of enmeshment - Emotional Incest https://growtherapy.com/blog/what-is-enmeshment/
Joint Custody with a Jerk: Raising a Child with an Uncooperative Ex by Julie A. Ross https://a.co/d/01YhX9WA
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u/Netflxnschill 11h ago
This was so well put together that I saved this comment so I can come back to it. There is also a reply with amazing resources.
Bless my bf, he started reading over my shoulder at about “the point is men do not tend to consider anything a woman says seriously or really absorb it.”
And it hurt his little feelings. Not because he doesn’t do that, he totally needs a few repetitions and sometimes a different voice telling him things, but because it was framed as “men do this women do that”
I had to calmly explain how he had walked into a story he knew nothing about, and the comment IS framed like that because it’s TRUE. study after study show this, and he looked a little surprised about the fact that this has been super well documented. His experience has been the flip of that, his ex rarely listened to him.
Anyway, this post educated another ignorant man today, well done!👍🏼
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u/ComprehensiveTill411 8h ago
“My husband [34f/36m] says he doesn’t ‘see’ mess he leaves on the floor. I always end up having to pick it up. How do I make him see how this is affecting me?”
“My [24f] fiancé [38m] keeps grabbing my boobs randomly even though I’ve asked him to stop?”
“My [18f] bf [18m] yells at me and slams doors whenever we argue. I’ve told him so many times that I’m afraid of people yelling at me and I just shut down. How do I get him to understand that?”
HE UNDERSTANDS. HE KNOWS. HE DOESN’T CARE.
He can hear you. He has a job. He attended school. When he gets pulled over by a cop, he gets his license out. He can read, follow directions, listen, understand consequences, and act to avoid them. He simply DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU; he is quite comfortable with you being unhappy/uncomfortable/burnt out/traumatized as long as it means he gets what he wants and can keep the status quo. There isn’t a special way to rephrase your feelings that will get through to him finally, or a special tactic you can use to get him to respect you.
I honestly feel most women just don’t understand how much disdain men have for us, on average. As painful as it is, we absolutely MUST come to terms with the fact that most (yes I said most) men do not see or respect women as real people just like them, equal in value and humanity to themselves and their male buddies. Most. Meaning, it’s statistically likely the guy you’re dating views you on a continuum from benevolent sexism, to mild dehumanization, to callous indifference, to veiled contempt, to outright hatred.
Saying “I care about you,” “I love you,” “I’m trying,” “I’m sorry” does not mean those things are true. Actions make those words true. A man who cares, loves, tries, and is sorry doesn’t make you rack your brain trying to find novel ways to CoMmUnIcAtE to him.
He knows. He simply doesn’t care. And staying with him prevents you from either finding a man who does care (they’re in the minority but they do exist), or being blissfully single and unencumbered by a shitty partner. You deserve better than banging your head against a wall trying to get him to see you as a full person. He won’t. It benefits him not to.
ETA: A lot of people (disproportionately men, I notice…) have replied with admonitions for not acknowledging the role neurodivergence plays in selective blindness. I am so clearly not talking about well-intentioned men with ADHD/Autism, that I almost don’t want to respond. But to be clear about the men I AM talking about, I’ll repost a comment I wrote below.
If neurodivergence were a factor [in this pattern of disrespect] in any way, both of the following would be true:
-These men would be equally incompetent, forgetful, and disrespectful at work, school, with their friends, and with you at the beginning of the relationship before they get comfortable. That is not the case.
-Neurodivergent women would be equally incompetent, forgetful, and disrespectful partners. That is not the case.
Neurodivergence has nothing to do with male entitlement, misogyny, and callous disregard for women. Neurodivergent men should be offended by this insinuation.
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u/alilacwood 10h ago edited 6h ago
Honestly I think you nailed it.
I spent a LONG time filtering out duds before I finally chose someone I felt was worth it. He makes all the appts, even mine. He cooks more than I do. He's literally sick and I was going to make dinner, and he was in the kitchen making dinner and feeding the pets before I got there. Oh yeah, he does pretty much all the shopping and he takes care of the pets 50-60% of the time. There are good men out there if you're willing to leave the ones who aren't right for you.
Edit: I kept thinking about it, and realized my comment is FAR more helpful with added context.
I grew up in a very toxic, volatile home. I watched my mother endure abuse, and I was scapegoated and abused... she wasn't aware of the extent of it until I was an adult. See, that's one of the worst things about being in a bad relationship. I know you THINK you're doing a good job, but it's literally impossible to be able to parent well when your own life is in shambles. I actually don't feel like I really got a mother until she left him, and I had already left the house by then. Actually, I'd left while I was still in school for my own safety. I slept in my car rather than go back. I spent a lot of effort dragging myself up and putting myself through college, teaching myself how the world worked... and at this point, I've traveled and lived all over the world and have advanced degrees. It did not come easily. I was broke. I was desperate, I was taken advantage of and attacked, I starved at times, I lived on couches.
All of that taught me that this much - there's a way out. It's just that people get comfortable, change is scary, and it's even scarier when it impacts your children. But I've learned another lesson too - people stop doing things when you are there to swoop in and save them. You don't actually know how your partner would co-parent. You don't know how they would support you and the children. You don't know what would happen, and you won't know until you start moving down that path. I encourage you to try.
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u/Fearless-Feature-830 14h ago
I understand exactly why he doesn’t want to divorce.
He sees you as an appliance. Do you have a favorite appliance? Imagine if someone took it away. Now you don’t get to use it.
He doesn’t want someone else to have his favorite appliance.
He gets tons of perks by staying. He gets emotional support, his tasks done, babysitting, financial support. He lives like a single person with a full time staff at home.
Take your power back. You have to stop caring about this terrible man. Let him handle his own shit and worry about you.
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u/Current_Outside_3918 7h ago
You can leave, you just cant have the lifestyle you are accustomed to. There are habitat for humanity homes, sliding scale income apartments, older neighborhoods with lower costs of buying a home, food banks, etc that can get you by. You have options.
I have a cousin, a mom of 4, who was in the same situation as you and ultimately divorced and gave up her lifestyle. Her kids are mentally healthy now, but it took therapy to undo the years of what they experienced. It took a few years but my cousin is doing well, finished college, and has someone who genuinely loves her. She doesnt even have to work now, but she kept her career bc she worked hard for it.
You are blocking your own blessings by staying and giving your kids a poor example of how a wife and mother should be treated. Show them by your example, not his. At least they can have one parent who is emotionally sound.
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u/Drama_Queen2013 6h ago
What do you expect people to tell you? You’re completely lost. Have no partner. Endure emotional abuse. And still say you can’t afford to leave? Ask yourself how you can afford not to???
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u/BornBluejay7921 17h ago edited 17h ago
You should go for separation, then later on divorce, take legal advice - he thinks he holds all the cards, make him realise that he doesn't, go legal on him. He has to be made to take some responsibilities, you make his life too comfortable - he makes your life shit. You have a sham of a marriage.
If you went legal on him, he would be forced to adhere to whatever was required of him, he wouldn't be able to make decisions about the kids without you knowing, you wouldn't do anything for him, no cooking for him, no laundry, no doing his finances, separate your finances. Make his life as hard as he has yours.
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u/Current-Anybody9331 10h ago
Option 1: if you won't leave and have decided this is your reality at least until the kids are gone, find another outlet for human connection. I'm not saying an affair, I'm saying friends, a therapist, family, or a combination of the 3. Stop putting effort into your husband or marriage. Its draining you. Accept that you're trapped and make the best of it. Volunteer, find some hobbies. Read instead of conversing with your husband. Match energies.
Option 2: speak to a divorce attorney and get your ducks in a row. Find out what you can reasonably expect in child support or even alimony. Understand your kids are absorbing information about their future relationships (what to expect, what to tolerate, how to treat others) and will need to work through all that to figure out a healthy relationship that doesn't look like what was modeled for them. Staying is unhealthy for all of you. Find a way out.
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u/betsylang 10h ago
Agreed. A divorce lawyer will also help you find an accountant who will help separate your finances. Start keeping track of how much you put into the household, so when you completely ditch this man you have a workinh idea of what level of living as a single parent you can have.
Good luck my friend. You deserve better
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u/Rrenphoenixx 8h ago
You need a lawyer. This is above Reddit pay grade. But my best guess is something like lower your wages if they exceed his, and file for divorce & alimony/child support.
He don’t wanna be around you? He can pay for it then.
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u/DawgFan2024 6h ago
He doesn’t want you as a wife, he wants you to be his mother. He’s behaving like he is single and “helping” you financially but that is all you’ll get from him. You are not his romantic partner. He’s getting his needs met elsewhere. Once he finds someone he’s willing to marry, he’ll divorce you. Put your big girl panties on and get your life in order.
There is nothing anyone can say that is a magic trick to get him to pull his weight with the kids and the housework. There isn’t, so stop looking for a fix. He doesn’t want the marriage, he doesn’t want to fix the relationship. This is him, it’s who he is. Why continue to waste your good years on someone who doesn’t want you? Once your usefulness to him is gone, you’re gone. Life doesn’t have any do overs. This is it so don’t waste more years of your life living in misery.
Stop allowing your children to live in this misery. This is akin to mental and emotional abuse. That is heartbreaking. It’s not fair to them because unlike you, they don’t have control over their lives. You do have control, so put their needs above yours so that they have a shot at a better future. Your husband doesn’t care about you or them. He’s behavior shows he only cares about himself. It’s past time to get serious about exiting this relationship for good and getting your children in an emotionally sable environment.
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u/hawktremor 17h ago edited 17h ago
Get legal advice, now. And I mean, now. There are legal actions you can take to remove someone from the home once you’ve legally separated. Someone cannot hold you hostage in a marriage. Start the divorce process so you can get him removed from the home and get a temporary child and/or spousal support in place so you can still afford your mortgage/rent and expenses on your own until the divorce is final and you have a permanent agreement.
In the meantime, stop doing everything for him. Stop doing anything for him. And I mean anything. Act like he doesn’t exist and do not respond to him when he gets angry you aren’t wiping his ass for him anymore. Do not engage in a conversation or a fight or anything. Only speak about the kids with him when you must. Once you’re separated and you have filed, you can start using a mediator and/or court appointed app for all communication.
You are not stuck. No matter how scary it seems or overwhelming. You are not stuck. Every married couples (or most) are very, very financially intertwined. And they still get divorced just fine. You are no different. You just have to talk to someone and get this process going. Pull the bandaid off and do it.
You will breathe so much easier once this horrific man is no longer sitting on your chest. And your children are seeing everything and will thank you someday for standing up for yourself and them.
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u/Dear_Parsnip_6802 17h ago
Stop doing things for him. No more laundry, no more meals, don’t buy the food he likes for snacks, stop consulting him about the children unless you need him to look after them if you want to go out. Start having nights out with friends or doing something for yourself . Tell him he’s on kid duty etc.
Get legal advice about separating finances. Work towards divorce. It may take time but you will get there.
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u/ItsFaithAgain 16h ago
i’m not gonna go into detail because this is not my story. I was in the same situation as you but I had 3 kids, and I was there for 10 years. After I got over the fear of failing or possibly having to come back after being with somebody for so long, I got a free consult with a divorce attorney so I would know what I can and cannot do legally. I started looking for apartments and I pulled money out of my retirement account as a loan and I moved out. It is possible to leave, it is possible to be happy, and once you do it, you will sit back and wonder why you didn’t do it sooner. Unfortunately, I can’t tell you how to stay where you are at because I wasn’t happy either. The only thing I needed to do was leave and no one could tell me how to do it. It came to point when I finally had to be ready and one enough became enough. how will you know when you’re ready? When you stop looking at every reason why you can’t leave, and start looking at all the possibilities and ways that you are able to leave.
The suggestions on here that are telling you to cut them off as well in the home I did that too and I agree. Act like he’s a roommate, give him the same energy that he’s giving you.
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u/yellsy 16h ago
Practical advice for you, start taking small steps:
1) Mentally separate him out as a business partner. A shitty one. Not a husband. Stop seeing him as a husband. Manage him like a project.
2) Go see a divorce lawyer quietly. Just go get the lay of the land in a consultation. Bring your financials in a neat bucket - this is our savings, and overall comp. What will alimony, child support, and custody look like. It’ll at least give you a realistic baseline.
3) Get into therapy, either individual or marriage. If marriage - not with the goal to save the marriage but to make the impending divorce less miserable.
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u/Defiant_Cod_1674 14h ago
You can and you must pack up your kids and leave. I was in a similar situation. The eldest was 8 the youngest was 3. We are finally on the other side after years.
For your own sake and your kids find a way. Friends, family, a shelter. Anything. You are showing your kids this is a normal relationship and showing them that your suffering is okay and it is not.
Good luck to you I hope you find a way that works.
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u/sweet_babygirl 14h ago
Literally stop doing anything and everything for him. Don’t talk or acknowledge him either. Why put your effort and energy into absolutely nothing? You already know his response and actions so you act accordingly and gtfo with your kids. You’re so miserable why do you care what he even thinks? Live for yourself and children
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u/Klutzy_Pound847 12h ago
First of all, who cares what he wants? He obviously doesn’t give a damn about what you want. Just separate under the same roof. If I were you I would start getting my ducks in a row for divorce. I would start by looking for a better paying job and maybe doing a side hustle. The thing is there is no other way out of this toxic relationship other than divorce. Whether you divorce in 3 years or in 15 years, that’s up to you. Question, do you have the option to get a better paying job that would provide for you and your kids, without requiring you to further your education? Do you have family that you could stay with until you get back on your feet? Do you have the time to possibly get an additional part time job or side hustle. Because you have to get the hell out of there.
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u/dragonstkdgirl 7h ago
To be clear, this is a horribly dysfunctional and abusive relationship.
My sister is a DV survivor and has been free with my nieces for almost three years, after 15 years of putting up with this kind of bullshit.
You don't need his permission to end this farce of a marriage. I know it's hard to leave (don't actually physically leave the house, but speak with a divorce attorney about what steps to take), but this is a 'choose your hard' situation. What's harder? Starting over without him dragging down your mental and physical health? Or living with this horrible excuse of a man for your entire life and continuing to model this relationship for your kids?
You say you don't know what he wants. He has what he wants. You to do all the work and run the house and raise his kids while he doesn't lift a finger.
Document everything, speak with a divorce attorney (preferably one who has extensive experience with abusive marriages), and ASK YOUR FAMILY FOR HELP. My ex BIL tried to isolate my sister from me and the rest of the family and friends and it almost worked. Almost. She hid the extend of his manipulation and abuse and hid when he started putting hands on her.
To be clear, he has spent years psychologically manipulating you to believe you don't have support when in reality, your loved ones probably suspect something is going on but they can't help if they don't know.
Please get out. Abuse can and usually does continue to escalate. My ex BIL turned physically abusive before she got the strength to leave, and three years later her and my nieces are in trauma therapy still unpacking all of the psychological damage. My ex BIL currently resides in county jail for beating up his new gf. These kinds of men don't change and have no interest in changing. Stop destroying yourself for him. Stop focusing on functioning in the same household. Make a plan, ask for help from the people that love you that are very well likely to be waiting for you to ask, and get the fuck out of this marriage. Please.
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u/Right_Book_4531 18h ago
Girl what!? Obviously divorce, take him to court. Split custody between both of you. If he can’t handle it then you take more days. He will pay child support and your kids will respect you more. Stop giving yourself excuses about how you can’t move. You can. Rent an apartment for a year until court is over. Sell the house you both have. It’s all doable is you have the will. Come on now.
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u/Longjumping_Net_7934 18h ago
It sounds like he hates you and wants to you as his emotional punching bag. Also your kids will inevitably and unintentionally internalize that you can be disrespected like that. They will feed from your misery, disrespect you for it, pity you, feel guilty and ultimately will make a choice when they are old enough. Imagine what is the worse thing that can happen, compare that to the present and projected future, and gauge what you are willing to lose and fight for. Misery is infectious
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u/SerentityM3ow 16h ago
Half of any money made during your marriage is yours so I wouldn't worry too much about that....maybe even more depending on how often he takes his kids
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u/saywaah 16h ago
Have you considered serving him with divorce papers and getting HIM to leave? You have 4 kids that you take care of exclusively. You get the house.
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u/MangoQuiet 16h ago
STAND UP FOR YOUR KIDS!!!!! CONSULT AN ATTORNEY AND INITIATE A DIVORCE.
THIS CONTINUES BECAUSE YOU LET IT!!! you better hope your kids don't figure that part out
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u/Illustrious-Cut6038 16h ago
He understands perfectly well what he's doing. It is deliberate. Accept that you cannot and will not be able to negotiate with him. Do what is right for you and your children. Let him be alone if that's what he wants.
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u/ismabit 15h ago
Not knowing how to leave is keeping you stuck. Speak to a lawyer, call a domestic violence helpline. Research your rights and start decluttering your home so you can beging mentally preparing to detach.
Do not tell him any of this. When you do something it will get worse so wait until you have no choice.
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u/Ok-Willow-9145 14h ago
Go talk to a lawyer and learn how to go about disentangling your finances. Decide for yourself that the marriage is over and set about disposing of the remains.
Also, get a therapist to help you work through the emotions.
Do all of this without telling your spouse about it. Notify him once your plans are in place.
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u/YouKnowYourCrazy 14h ago
I think you should talk to a lawyer and understand your options here. You keep saying your finances are too intertwined but people with kids get divorced every day. He does not have to agree. I’m not saying it won’t be really hard but talking to a lawyer and understanding the reality of your situation rather than assuming you can’t is your next step here.
You should probably also be in individual therapy. Perhaps consider an antidepressant.
Forget this marriage and focus on what makes you and your kids the healthiest and happiest you can be. Instead of him cutting you out, you cut him out and try to regain some measure of happiness in this life.
I’m sorry you’re going through it. But I would start looking at him as someone to ignore and pretend is not there until you can get away from him, for your own mental health. Stop expecting anything from him. You know he won’t give you anything. So stop expecting it.
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u/Pretend_Accountant41 14h ago
People in your situation have two options: stay and suffer or leave. There is no stay and thrive option, no one will give you advice to achieve that because it's not possible
You can end the marriage properly on your own. It's a painful and fucked up process, but it's possible. Your assets will split, custody will split, and you will eventually land on your feet. Most everyone lands someplace that isn't a shelter or the streets
Worst case scenario, you stay and things remain the same or get worse
Better case scenario, you leave and life is harder for a while, but you are whole and independent again
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u/Okra7000 13h ago
Contact a women’s center/DV agency and get recommendations for legal assistance. Start learning what your options are, and make a plan to leave eventually. It doesn’t have to be today.
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u/Artistic_Fruit_9139 11h ago
As a single divorced mom of 4 kids, who was in a similar situation as yours, believe me: you can survive! It can be done. Nothing is worse than what you are living right now, for your children, this cannot continue.
I was like you hesitant and thought I couldn’t survive alone with four kids but it’s doable. After 7 years, I have survived and I’m finally thriving, my children are thriving. I’m not saying it’s going to be easy: I experienced scarcity for the first time in my life during these past years and suffer a lot but it was worth it.
I remember I stopped crying after the divorce when my oldest daughter told me (she was 7 at that time): “Mom, I love dad and all, but we are better now, we are in peace and the house feels different. We are better!”
Don’t stay because of the children.
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u/AlterEgoAmazonB 10h ago
It's the fact that he is a problem gambler that is likely the reason he is behaving this way. I would suggest that you find an Al-anon group for you, learn from that, and make plans accordingly. I would also suggest you look deeply into your finances, your credit reports and find out where you actually stand financially. But keep your findings to yourself. Use this info only to proceed with the eventual divorce which you obviously need to face, in spite of protesting it because of how hard it will be to house the kids, etc. But where you are headed could be much worse, so I encourage you to move forward.
He is likely hiding some big things and shutting you out so you don't dig too much.
I have professional experience with gamblers and their finances (and therefore their behavior toward spouses). There isn't much he won't do to protect his addiction. And that is dangerous for you. Al-anon can help you with the emotional part.
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u/fzooey78 9h ago
You are single and have a roommate. Start acting like it. Don’t do his laundry. Don’t clean up after him. Don’t cook for him. Go out with friends. Start dating again.
Yes, I said start dating again. You need to see that there is a life out there outside of him. He is abusing you and using you - financially, as a maid, childcare, house manager. Your turn to do as you please. Meet him with the same energy.
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u/justbrowzingthru 6h ago
Lawyer up to figure out your options,
However if he is gambling, there may not be much money on his end.
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u/Slow_Ready1888 18h ago
I am so so so sorry you’re going through this. I once loved someone that would do some of those things. Being in your own home, which is meant to be your safe space and doing so much for someone while they pretend you aren’t even there or have the respect to respond to you or treat you with human decency is so belittling. All the things you’re going through put a massive strain on your mental well-being. That stress and unhappiness will slowly kill you. And hearing you describe how he treats you and the children following his poor behavior is heartbreaking.
Do you have family close by? If you had a conversation with your parents could something be arranged to get you into an apartment or condo? You only have one life and you shouldn’t have to live miserably. I would brainstorm and plan all the options I had to leave. I know you said that’s not what you want to hear and you need help but it sounds like you’ve done everything you can and you can’t put in the work for him. It doesn’t sound like anything you do can change his behavior.
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u/LoosePassage4058 18h ago
You cannot force someone to love you. You cannot force someone to care about you or treat you like they do. What you are doing now is undignified, you are begging for something he doesn’t care enough to give you. He doesn’t care. If you cannot physically leave, just fully leave emotionally. Stop being his wife. You already seem to live relatively separate lives, make it permanent. Exist in that house not as a wife to him, but as a mother to your children. Poor all your excess energy into yourself and your children. Act like he doesn’t exist.I know that you don’t want advice on divorce, but THERE IS NO ADVICE ANYONE CAN GIVE YOI TO MAKE THIS MARRIAGE WORK. You are the ONLY one who wants to make it work. HE DOESN’T CARE. Please wrap your head around that and work on losing whatever remaining love you have for him. He doesn’t care about the love you have for him and you cannot force him to. You cannot love him into loving you again.. He probably wants you to leave. Men don’t leave when they are done, they just beat you down enough emotionally so that they don’t have to be the villain when it ends. Stop hoping for what will not happen and start the process of moving on
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u/Top_Painter_6093 13h ago
I’m sorry to tell you this, but he’s having an affair and he’s angry at you because he has built up a story about you that allows him to justify his actions outside of the marriage.
I am not saying this from a place of shaking my finger or laying blame. Marriage is complicated, people become less affectionate and bitter if they don’t concentrate on loving one another. Women often take on the bulk of the work with a family, home and our own work. We also apparently have to be mind readers. I encourage you to ask him to go to therapy not with you but alone to try and work things out in his head. He might be an avoidant who literally does not know how to communicate properly and will seek outside validation rather than looking at himself and try to fix anything with you. In the meantime, focus on yourself and your happiness whatever way you can. Carve some time every day to get to the gym or meditate and figure out what to do to make yourself happy and help your children.
Search financial statement, emails messages and start downloading financial information. If you are religious lean on your community or leaders of your community to ask for advice.
People do desperate things when they are unhappy.
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u/figureground 13h ago
Call your local domestic violence shelter and set up an appointment with a DV counselor. See what resources they can offer you. Also find am attorney. The DV shelter may be able to help you with that as well. You are trapped in an abusive relationship. Also, you need to tell your close family and friends. You will need them to help you when you physically separate. The most dangerous time for a woman and her kids is when she tries to leave an abusive relationship. You need to make an exit plan with a professional. And keep it secret from him until it has happened.
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u/Loud-Farter18 12h ago
I say this with the best of intentions— you need to pull yourself together and work on loving yourself again. Forget him and stop trying to work on your relationship. It will never be how you want it to be. He’s checked out already. He doesn’t realize what he had and won’t until you leave. You NEED to leave for the sake of your mental health and well being. Children are smart. They see these things. I’m sure they’re well aware of how the dynamic is and staying together in an unhappy household/environment is worse than having two happier homes. Build yourself up, gain some self respect and confidence, talk to a lawyer and therapist, and please get a divorce. And if you have any family and friends around please lean on them for support during this difficult time. It will only get better once you leave him.
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u/Changed_Mind555 6h ago
Oh but you can leave even if it's not easy. I would seek out a lawyer. Use his money since he leaves you responsible. Give him the house, BUT your name has to be removed from the deed and mortgage. If he stops paying, nothing financially will return to you. Seek out all the DV advocacy centers and ask to talk. Because, this is abuse, just not the kind you think of or expect. They will be able to help you see this and have resources avialble. Some of grants, some have household furniture and what not. Just call them. You are already stressed. So any stress from moving out will be there but be different. There will be a peace without his presence and interference.
And lord how I would snoop. 99% of the time a man checks out but says you can't move on and calls it cheating; he's cheating. All you need for a cleaner divorce.
Starting over is temporary. And those advocacy centers often do have lawyers they can refer you to.
You can still lose a house and move on and buy another after a few years. And with help they may help you evict him. You may have to stay temporarily with someone but betting a judge will prefer the children in the family home with stability. Start documenting everything. When he undermines you, doesn't uphold his responsibility, keep it short and to the point and give it to your lawyer.
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u/wheels-n-wings 6h ago
You cannot stay. You have children watching this, you’re teaching them about what a marriage looks like and this is not a lesson you want to learn. Staying isn’t an option, even if you have to live in a one bedroom and have a kids room and you in the living room that’s better than staying.
Please stop letting him abuse you in front of your children. If you aren’t willing to leave for yourself do it for them.
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u/lianhanshe 17h ago
Your story could be mine, except mine isn't as long. I loved with him for 6 months after he told me he didn't want the marriage but didn't want to seperate. One night I told him he had to go, next day i saw a lawyer. I had 3 kids (1 on the spectrum) under 11, I was a sahm. I enrolled in a course so I could return to work. I did it not only for my kids but myself. Instead of telling yourself you can't, just do it.
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u/Brief_Expression5997 17h ago
I read your post and felt I was reading about my own life, only difference being I stuck it out for 30 years (fool that I am). You’ve had a lot of good advice here. You don’t need to stay. The children will be fine - ask yourself what it’s like for them walking around on eggshells all the time. You will be poorer, but you will be happier, this I promise. It’s been 3 years since I left, he dragged me through the courts, made up lies about me, I lost friends and extended family and I’m not going to lie, there were times when I thought I couldn’t take it any more. 3 years on I own my own lovely small home, my kids are happy and I have a partner who couldn’t be more different. I am genuinely happy, despite the stress and hardship of the last few years. If you stay you will continue being in limbo, please take steps to leave this awful marriage. Wishing you future joy and happiness. (PS he’s getting married again, poor woman!)
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u/creatively_inclined 15h ago
If you're miserable, so are your children. You and your husband are modeling a terrible relationship example for them to follow. It seems that while your husband won't participate in the marriage, he still wants to control you. It's telling that things feel better when he's gone.
If your husband is gambling, lock down your credit because it's just a matter of time before he uses your credit.
I know it seems impossible, but you have to start planning to leave. The house will have to be sold which is difficult these days unless you're in a housing market where there is demand. If you stay you will get further and further into debt with this man.
If you're still doing stuff for this man like laundry, cooking, appointments etc. just stop. He doesn't get to benefit from your labor when he actively dislikes you and makes your life worse.
But absolutely start secretly saving, every single penny you can. You need an escape fund. If you can see a therapist yourself, do it. You are at the end of your tether and need help and support. Confide in friends and family. Someone may have a solution for you.
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u/Brok3nLlama 15h ago
Talk to a lawyer, see what options you’d have. You need to be out of this situation for yourself and for your children. None of you deserve to live like this.
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u/BandicootNo8636 14h ago
You let him sit in this box he built. You treat him in the same manner he treats you.
He agreed to do something. You have plans.
He doesn't get consideration for dinner.
He doesn't get conversation and consideration anymore.
It is time for you to check out.
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u/Heywtfhey 14h ago
You have to just file for divorce. If your kids have to share bedrooms so be it. If the guy has gambling issues it's likely you could lose your house eventually anyway. Talk to a lawyer and just leave.
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u/ComprehensiveTill411 13h ago
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bQsWP3ggtJ4&pp=iggCQAE%3D&ra=m
http://hellodivorce.com/relationships/what-is-walkaway-wife-syndrome
https://issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons/
https://www.sociallearning.org/single-post/2017/09/24/why-fair-isnt-always-equal
Is It Supposed to Be This Hard?
Telling the Difference Between Emotional Abuse and the Hard Work of Relationship by Mary Pat Haffey
https://a.co/d/040Z4lgQ
Coercive Control Consulting, Training & Expert Witness https:// endcoercivecontrolusa.com/
The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence by Gavin de Becker
https:// drive.google.com/file/d/1H3KSvMjG8WJnEOfJuNpNxfuZLdgA2wE/view?usp=drivesdk
Retroactive Jealousy
https:// health.clevelandclinic.org/retroactive-jealousy
My partner doesn't help around the house
https://zawn.substack.com/p/ why-household-labor-inequity-is-abuse
Weaponizing Incompetence https:// www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288
Tolerable levels of permanent unhappiness
https://potentash.com/
2023/08/17|tolerable-level-permanent-unhappiness-relationships/
DARVO
https://www.keystonelaw.com/
keynotes/understanding-darvo-what-is-abusive-gaslighting-and-coercive-behaviour-in-a-relationship
Financial Abuse
https://nnedv.org/ content/about-financial-abuse/
Is your relationship healthy? https:// www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-relationship-healthy/
Dr. Ruth | That Was Abuse-YouTube Channel https://youtube.com@healingbythenumbers?si=Mf4CsF-iEtOd49SO
How He Gets Into Her Head by Don Hennessy
https://a.cod001oPvO7
Should I Stay or Should I Go:
Surviving A Relationship with a Narcissist by Dr. Ramani Durvasula
https://a.co/d/01PIM8wd
Operation Safe Escape provides free assistance to people impacted by domestic violence, stalking, harassment, and related crimes.
https://safeescape.org/
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u/klmoran 13h ago
I had an alcoholic partner. He was similar to this when drinking and it was constant. I eventually told him that I would be pulling away from him for my own mental health. We would live together with the kids but I would no longer be involved or invested in him or his problems, more like polite roommates. I was incredibly lucky that he did sort himself out but trying to look after him was destroying me.
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u/Fast_Common97 13h ago
As a divorced woman the what if is daunting with a the responsibility he/it has placed on you. Don't share a bed and start planning. Do you have a trusted family member or friend to hold paperwork? Start making copies of everything deed, mortgage, his SSN, banking info, etc to prepare for your exit. Research lawyers, research social agencies that help women, even DV. You never know. If you are serious about leaving plan! Please keep us in the loop for additional help and suggestions. I left my marriage at 40 with two elementary kids moved a couple states back home to near my family. It has been a struggle duties worth it. I own a home, my kids are adults and excellant people. Finances a work in progress. You can do this!!!!
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u/wowswift 12h ago
If you’re not going to leave, then match his energy. Stop doing anything for him. Ignore him. He doesn’t exist anymore
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u/GnomieOk4136 11h ago
You are teaching your children how to treat you and what a relationship should look like. This is not what you want to model. It is well past time to divorce.
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u/MagicianEmotional257 11h ago
Sounds like he has a side chick and really messy finances that he doesn’t want you to find out about.
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u/Working_Coat5193 10h ago
There was a woman whose husband did this. I think she wrote an article in the Atlantic. It was basically her summer with the kids. She said screw it to her husband and basically ignored him while she did whatever she wanted with her children.
Stop chasing him. Start living your life. Even if it’s with another person.
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u/kkrolla 10h ago
Go to a lawyer. You feel trapped but you aren't. You just don't understand your options. Show the attorney this so they can inform you of solutions when separated, such as being fully informed of child events. He could have addictions and you'd do well to disconnect from him, and therefore any responsibility, ASAP. Maybe you'll have to move but a small space is a million times better than this. And the worst part, you are teaching your kids that it's ok to not matter in a relationship. Some will mimick this and some may fully stay away from relationships. Get them, and you, therapy. You can't fix this because it's not on you. And also, when you separate and husband swears he will try, you say, you work on yourself and we will see where we are next year. This seems insurmountable, but take it one moment, one action, one step at a time. It helps.
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u/Heylady728 10h ago
After reading this. Literally the only thing is you need to leave and start the divorce process. I know you didn't ask for this, but this is the only thing you can do.
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u/Similar-Doughnut-679 9h ago
Doesn’t matter what he wants you need to put yourself first. Yea he will be pissed who cares he will get over it. You might have to initially leave without the kids. Make sure your lawyer knows you aren’t abandoning the kids but it is planned for you to get out because of mental and emotional abuse and you will come back/fight for kids once you’re stable. Yes he will make you look like the bad guy because you left but again who cares and he already is making it look that way. A planned leave with lawyer knowing the details will help you in court. Also he will realize the enormous amount of shit you have dealt with when he is now responsible for the house animals plans and kids.
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u/trivialerrors 8h ago
Personally I think you’re asking all the wrong questions, because I mean right now you’re just venting emotionally through a Reddit post. You know realistically there’s nothing you can do to save the marriage, it doesn’t take 10 paragraphs to see that.
You say you can’t leave because of finances, isn’t that the actual problem you need to solve, not what you can do about him/the marriage? The actual real question is do you have any sense of timeline of when you would be stable enough to separate? What do you think you need to do to get there? How do you get there faster?
Those are the actual questions you should be solving for, it doesn’t require you to explain why you need to leave and what he is doing and not doing it’s not at all relevant.
The reason you’re still structuring your questions around your marriage and what you can do is because you’re still in the mindset that you can fix this all somehow. You can’t. Start asking the right questions to help you move on faster.
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u/Garden_gnome1609 2h ago
You don't do that . People get divorced all the time. You act like it's impossible. Get a lawyer. File for divorce. The courts will decide who has to move out. You'll sell the house, divide the assets and hammer out a parenting plan. It's not rocket science or impossible.
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u/Pyjama365 18h ago
I ain't reading all that, but if your main issue is that he won't discuss separating finances in a way that would allow you to leave and have the kids with you part-time, let him know that your only alternative is to look at renting a studio flat or 1-bed for yourself. My expectation is that he would be horrified if he thought there was a real risk of him being left responsible for residential custody of 4 kids.
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u/labtech89 17h ago
She has a job she can get her own account and put her paycheck in that account. She needs to man up and leave. There is help for her to do that but she seems unwilling to make the first step.
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u/Short-Classroom2559 19h ago
You absolutely can leave. Go stay with a friend or parent. Give him full custody. Let him deal with ALL of it alone like he's been doing to you for all those years. Pay child support. Go live.
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u/Ncfetcho 18h ago
So, check out lawyers, see if any are pro bono, get the finances in order, figure child and spousal support, get things divided, get it written up, see what the eviction laws are in your area.
Your lawyer can help you with all of this.
He can pay out his half, or make arrangements to sell it.
Either way, you aren't going to have to pay for everything by yourself.
they can dock his paycheck..
No matter what advice or suggestions you get, start looking for a lawyer who can help.
You will feel SO much better after you aren't raising an Adult dependent.
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u/Alarmed-Detective701 18h ago edited 17h ago
The advice on seeking legal advice and help is good. Do that as soon as possible. This situation is hurting you and the kids. It is not healthy and you and the kids will be happier when he is no longer under the same roof. It feels overwhelming but once you start a weight lifts. You deserve to be happy. Take the first step to make that happen.
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u/SadExercises420 17h ago
You don’t need his permission to seperate. If you want to live like roommates that hate each other for the rest of your life yourr allowed to do that, but you don’t need his ok to file for divorce
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u/labtech89 17h ago
As everyone has said see a lawyer and find out your options. Complaining and posting on Reddit are not going to help. You have a job and he will have to pay child support so just leave.
As everyone has said nothing will work HE DOES NOT WANT TO HE MARRIED TO YOU. You need to realize that and be the “bad guy” and fucking leave.
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u/bialettibrewmaster 17h ago
Wow. This was me. 4kids, too. I pretzeled. It was horrible. I wasn’t working and was trapped until I decided I wasn’t going to be trapped in this and model this crap to my kids. Just to label this, it’s emotional abuse and domestic violence.
I found out he was actively living a 2nd lives. I got therapy and I got out .
Invest your energy NOT into him or this arrangement. Keep low and plan your exit. Dont continue to model this to your kids. Get firm with him on established routines- he cannot prance in and disrupt life. LABEL it in front of him and the lkids- he’s the Disney dad. Do NOT share any more info with him regarding the kids, the family, the home. Have it available on a joint visible calendar but do not lead him to it, Document everything now, dates time activity action. Know that what he may be doing is establishing a basis for full or 50% custody.
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u/MissMurderpants 16h ago
You work.
Go see a lawyer. Pay what you gotta pay. But they can help you hire it out.
Get in touch with a domestic violence shelter. He might not be physically hurting you. He is mentally abusing you.
Don’t be wishy washy. Do what is suggested.
Leave.
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u/SunnyTraveller 15h ago
You really need to consult a lawyer on what steps to make going forward. They can advise you on how best to proceed and protect yourself and your children.
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u/Revolutionary_Ad1846 15h ago
Make a game plan to leave.
You wouldn’t treat another person how hes treated you for a DAY and he has done it for YEARS.
He hates you.
Im praying things get sorted so you can leave. It’s probably not as bad as you think if you talk to a divorce lawyer… Find out what you’re entitled to, and I hope you have the biggest glow up when this is over.
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u/gemmygem86 14h ago
What I see if you need to file for divorce rather he wants it or not. He’s checked out and become abusive, ignoring you and withholding important info is abusive. Time to be single and raise your kids
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u/Impossible-Link2623 14h ago
First thought that came to my mind - Does/could he have a mistress on the side ? - Does he own a gun? - Would /Could he erase you from his life - physically ? So much of this is going on in the news everywhere , i would fear my own life if it’s so blatant and has been going on for a while. Resentment buildup for some people can push them to extremes unfortunately.
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u/ChaucersDuchess 14h ago
This man hates you and just wants to control you.
Read it until you get it.
Who cares about how messy it is to undo finances, YOUR CHILDREN - and you - DESERVE BETTER.
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u/Mar136 13h ago edited 13h ago
You need to make a serious attempt to plan your exit. Start talking to a good divorce lawyer (do not let him know you’re doing this), utilize all resources available to you, go to therapy (by yourself), and lean on trusted friends and family (that will not report to him) if possible. Do not let yourself get isolated. That is what he wants. Be smart and do whatever it takes to protect yourself and your kids.
Way easier said than done, but it may not be as impossible as you think. Ultimately, it is your only way out because it will get worse not better and he is slowly whittling you down. His behavior will escalate.
Get your ducks in a row. He knows exactly what he’s doing.
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u/polly_mer 13h ago edited 13h ago
You're saying you can't leave, yet that's really the only option. You start making plans to leave, get the resources in place you'll need, and leave. Or have the courts make him leave so you get the house with the kids.
Or you stay and be actively undermined.
There are no other options.
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u/HiraethBella 13h ago
I also want to add,
OP, if you dont care for your health and you deteriorate, who is going to care for your children if you send yourself to an early grave?
If you can't do this for yourself, do it for them. You are a strong person. Start making the steps to separate. You don't need his permission. Set boundaries and say no (no explanations). You are done and you move silently toward divorce. Collect every bit of information you need to and tuck away money for a lawyer.
Trust me you can do this. My mom did and I am divorcing too. I have never felt better.
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u/All_names_taken-fuck 12h ago
HAVE YOU MET WITH A LAWYER? that’s honestly the only place to start.
Can you get him out of the house during divorce proceedings?
Put up cameras in the house, start documenting.
He does not want you to be happy. You have to start somewhere. Make your own bank account he can’t touch.
Stop talking to him. Stop involving him. And get to an attorney yesterday!!
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u/misconceptions_annoy 11h ago
"I have become incredibly isolated because of all of this. I have barely spoken to people I love because I’m exhausted, miserable and shut down all the time. I have hidden how bad things are because I know once I tell people close to me, I can’t untell them, and I’m worried that outside involvement would make living here even harder."
Please, please, please tell them. Outside involvement might make the state of things less certain, as in shaking up the status quo. I understand why that's scary, but the status quo is *terrible*. It needs to be shaken. It'll be hard, but it's well worth it.
It's true that you can't un-tell them. But what's so bad about that? You're just telling them the truth of what's been happening. It sounds like you may have initially decided to keep things to yourself because you wanted to protect your husband's reputation from their dislike. 1. He wrecked his reputation his damn self. 2. He isn't your husband, he's a roommate. Things have changed. You've taken the hard step of realizing/acknowledging that there's no way to make a relationship work with someone who's like this. It won't be fixed.
People you love are likely concerned about you. Either they think you're avoiding them in particular, or they realize you've shut down and that you're exhausted and miserable. There are likely people who already know something is wrong and want to help. Let them in.
If the idea of protecting yourself isn't motivating enough, and you need guilt as a motivator: what if someone you love thinks that you're mad at them or dislike them, because they don't know of any other reason for you to stop talking to them like this? Are you willing to let a loved one be upset and think you're mad at them in order to 'protect' the reputation of this complete asshole? Tell them what's going on.
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u/loricomments 11h ago
You may not want to hear it but you need to divorce him. You will find a way to survive without him.
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u/AccomplishedCash3603 10h ago
You can't leave TODAY. In 2 years? 3 years? You can't leave today, but you can leave SOMEDAY. Fuck him, you don't need his permission to divorce. Go open a 'divorce account's and start saving for a rental and an attorney. Consult with 4-5 attorneys. FYI most divorce attorneys don't care about you, they care about getting paid. Don't fall for anyone who promises you the moon in divorce, find one with references that will speak to their diligence and expertise.
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u/dashymom 9h ago
Even though you are living in the same house you can start building a life for yourself. Make friends with other women who your husband doesn’t know. Find activities to do that don’t involve him: library, card groups, gym, dancing (I’m 76 and started line dancing last week), self-help groups, craft groups, go for walks, don’t look at him - NO eye contact at all, he is invisible, put him on an information diet, only share the absolute essential information, share it with him via text/messenger/email. Im not sure how old your kids are but I’m sure they can help with a few of the tasks around the house, move out of the bedroom or move his stuff out of the bedroom, open a bank account and don’t tell him and put money in it every payday. Use gift cards to buy things and then return stuff to the store and take a cash refund. Get your hair done and have a manicure/pedicure. See your doctor and tell him what’s happening.
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u/No-Syllabub-7337 9h ago
Kick his No-Good Ass out! You're not married anymore (for good or for bad). If you can't handle the mortgage, sell the house and take your half. You are still young, you can start over. He doesn't want to leave because he will have to pay child support and possibly alimony. He doesn't want to be with you, so he doesn't get to dictate to you anymore. You're already a single mom, how much worse can it get? Unless you're afraid of violence from him (in which case, you just need to grab the kids and what you can and leave), file for Divorce. Let the chips fall where they may. Good Luck to you. And don't ever feel like you're alone, cause you're not. 🩵 Life is too short, don't waste it!
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u/Status-War4902 Late 30s Female 9h ago
You don’t need him to agree to divorce now. You don’t need him to agree to consult a lawyer. Consult lawyers and get a plan in place that leads to divorce
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u/MyRedditUserName428 9h ago
You don’t need his permission to end your marriage. Consult with an attorney and start lining up your ducks. Have him served once you’re ready to proceed.
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u/Neither_Complaint865 7h ago
Start living your own life, and doing things that make you happy. Pretend HE is not there. You’ll be far less stressed raising kids without that huge anchor around your neck. I recommend The Four Agreements. It helps you stop trying to figure anyone else out, and focus on building yourself up into who you want to be. Hopefully he will leave, but I see many good comments on how to proceed with removing him from your life one step at a time. There will come a day when you will look back and see how far you have come. It’s up to you how long it takes for you to get off this crazy train, and get on with your next chapter.
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u/URAYummyPotato 7h ago
" He also said something along the lines of not wanting to go through all of this if wasn't going to " get anything out of it in the end".
What is he going to gain in the end OP? Does he have an life insurance taken out on your name OP?
This man does not love or care for you, but he is waiting for something, what is he waiting for? I'm sorry OP but this man totally written you off as human being let alone as his wife. He is abusive, but in such a way that you are not even a human for him but a tool. Something he is using until he gets out what's he wants and then he will divorce you or do something much worse to you.
He is like a parasite and you are his host, a parasite won't let go of a host until he sucked every little bit of life out of the host.
There is no advice that anybody can give that can fix that man and or the marriage. He is up to something and it isn't anything good.
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u/Educational_Editor_9 7h ago
My lovely neighbour is going through a very similar situation right now, but she is fighting back. For years she literally held the entire family together and sacrificed everything to raise her kids and keep the marriage going. He came home from work one day and said he wanted out. It just seemed to turn a switch in her. She got angry that after everything she’d done, with incredibly minor support from him, that he was going to just leave, so essentially, SHE LEFT. Purely on an emotional level, she checked out. He now sleeps on the sofa. She basically created a new life for herself that doesn’t involve him in any way. Her children are mid teens so they can function without too much input and she just leaves him to do whatever he wants. Meanwhile, she’s living her best life. She’s finding it incredibly freeing. I don’t know how old your kids are, but start dumping responsibility on him. They have 2 parents, not one. Book that spa day, book a night in a hotel. Whatever you’ve always wanted to do. Take back your power.
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u/Patient_Meaning_2751 7h ago
Go see a lawyer and start separating your finances. You don’t need his permission to divorce. After the divorce is final, one of you will either have to buy the other out or you have to sell it.
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u/Cndwafflegirl 3h ago
See a family lawyer. They will guide you. Fact is all assets will be divided. And he would have to pay child and spousal. You will be better off on your own.
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u/Civil-Kitchen5978 3h ago
Stop allowing him to make the rules. Carry on with your life as a single mother. He’s been carrying on for the longest as a single man. Leaving and staying gone whenever he wants and making decisions without you. Start by letting friends and family know that you two are separated. Plan the next chapter in your life without him.
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u/331845739494 18h ago
Stop trying to save the marriage. You cannot compensate for his lack of effort indefinitely.
So, some steps to take:
Stop explaining. He knows you’re unhappy. He doesn't care because as far as he's concerned, you're his servant. Well, that stops now. So, onto step two:
Stop being his manager. Handle your responsibilities (those do not include his) and the children’s essential needs. Let go of the rest where it’s safe to do so.
Protect your finances. Document everything, secure access to your money and get independent legal advice. This is going to be your biggest building block towards independence.
Stop treating his refusal to separate as a veto. You don’t need his permission to start planning your future.
Tell someone! Isolation is making this so much harder for you. Let someone you trust see what’s actually happening and allow them to help you.
Get medical support. Your health is deteriorating and you cannot afford to keep putting yourself last.
Build options quietly. You don’t have to leave tomorrow, but you need a realistic path toward independence.
And one final thing: stop measuring progress by his promises. Measure it by sustained changes in his behaviour.
If it were me though, I wouldn't wait for him to change because he has proven he won't. I would spend all the time you normally waste on him planning my exit.